| Author | Message | ||||||
     David Bingham (Davidb) New Member Username: Davidb Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hello, I will introduce myself first. My name is David Bingham and I live in Bend Oregon. I own C.O.Euromoto, which is an aftermarket BMW and Ducati specialty shop. I usually work on my own stuff but sometimes have one of the Audi mechanics who work next door do work on my 4 wheeled stuff. only if I am too busy with motorcycles. I have owned several Alfa Romeos and loved them all, I even spent a few years as a mechanic at an Alfa Romeo / Lamorghini dealer in Seattle. So even though I don't know my way around a Land Rover yet, it won't take me long. My current travel vehical is a VW Vanagon that has had quite a few things done to it to withstand the abuse it recieves in the Oregon desert. Ok, so now you all know who I am. Now heres what I need to know. If I do indeed buy a Disco instead of the Toyota my freinds are telling me to buy, Will I need dealer service software to access the ECU's or will generic OBD2 stuff work? I was told that the suspension, ABS, and airbags in these trucks needs frequent trips to the dealer to put out warning lights. I am told that unlike my VW or my Audi, most every part I will ever need will have to come from the dealer. The nearest dealer is 180 miles away and didn't impress me too much. I am told that I will not be able to pull a traier with out damage to the transmission. I am told that they go through a wiper motor every year and that it will cost me $1000.00 everytime it happens. I have been told that they can't go off road at all with out breaking or getting stuck. I am told I would be better of sticking with my VW, even though it is really old and getting uglier by the minute. Ok, so I am sure there are some of you who will just love replying to this. Don't flame me, these for the most part are honest questions I have about these trucks. I really want one, but my demands are high and I need to be sure the truck will be there when I need it. Ok, this my be getting long now, hard to tell in the little text window : ) I will stop soon. Last, Here is a short list of what this truck will need to do, please let me know if it is up to it. - Drive me to work when the weather is too bad for my Ducati or my bicycle -take me skiing even on powder days -take me far into the Oregon backcountry, I mean like 3 or 4 days of 2 track or worse with gear for 2 people and 2 large dogs on board -tow about 2500 pounds worth of motorcycles and gear at highway speed in adverse conditions -not be broken as much as it is running. I am not talking about needing maintenance, I am good at getting that done, I mean breaking. -and last, NEVER and I mean Never ever leave me stranded in the desert, or in the woods because something that can only be reset by some special dealer only software is broke. | ||||||
| peter nova (Peter) Member Username: Peter Post Number: 70 Registered: 07-2003 |
well I believe that 2 percent of that is true. Only getting stuck and that is the best part when you go 4-wheeling. All the other stuff I have never heard before. I have a 97 XD and the only problems I had was the steering box and leaking oil. But a Toyota land crusier with 37īs and a supercharger would be cool too. | ||||||
| Garrett (Rover7592) Senior Member Username: Rover7592 Post Number: 359 Registered: 03-2003 |
David, As honest as i can be: Get the rover! i have had my DI for 3 years now, the only time it has been in the shop was to do brakes (which is understandable). I have towed 3 land cruisers (on separate occassions), towed a '61 series IIA behind it on a trailer. With "6 inches of snow on the ground i drove to work, and picked up 3 other people i work with on the way with no problems whatsoever. The truck is capable of handling your daily driving conditions, and loves to be put to the test for rough driving conditions. I trust my disco as much as i'd trust any 2003 vehicle. It has never failed to start, and has never failed to get me to my desired destination. There are some rovers out there that are lemons (overflowing with maintenance problems). You dont have to get all of your parts/accessories/tools from the dealership. Some things you may be better off buying from the dealership, but 180 miles away just doesn't seem worth it. Atlantic British Ltd., roversnorth, northwestparts, safarigard, and rovertym has (or can get) just about any desired part for a reasonable price. The only downfall to my rover is the gas mileage, including the fact that i have a full sized adventure rack with an expanded metal flooring kit, full sized brush guard with a 9,000 lb winch, oversized off-road tires, and a long long list of other shit that i've added which contributes to the weight problem. Search wisely for a rover in good condition, make sure to review it's history and just take care of it. It'll definately be there when you need it. I would love for you to make me put my shoe in my mouth and prove me wrong. Get a rover and make people turn their heads while driving down the road. I'd love to see some pics when you get it! rover7592@yahoo.com | ||||||
| Peter J. Kelly (Pjkbrit) Member Username: Pjkbrit Post Number: 66 Registered: 05-2003 |
You've been fed some disinformation here. Never tow a trailer? My Disco 2 is an excellent towing platform...AND stable as anything I've ever driven. The •••••• is just fine..problems with it are very rare, its a very tough unit. All the stuff about oil leaks and electrical gremlins however IS true, but not life threatening and frankly my 02 Subaru Forester has been no more reliable than my 99 Disco 2. These trucks do need some TLC and proper, (ie: DIY), service work. Off road ... they get stuck less often than almost anything else other than maybe a Jeep Wrangler. If you can affoed it, get an 03 with the 4.6. Finally...and I have to say this cos I'm a Brit...but IMHO the Disco is waaaaayyyyy classier and cool than anything else out there by a very wide margin...til Ford screw it up next year anyway! | ||||||
| Thomas B. McGee (Mcgeetb) New Member Username: Mcgeetb Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2004 |
Run away, run away! My case: '99 D1, $18,257.00 worth of work done before 70k mi. All covered by warranty but you do the math. 4 pwr steering pumps, frnt and rear diffs, U-joints, 2 T-cases, 2 sets of 4 rotors, 5 sets pads, electrical probs galore, 2 fan motors, 3 speed sensors, 1 fuel pump, 2 cat convrtrs, new O2 sensors etc, etc. The problem is I love the car but it's a POS. Never left me stranded but for as much as I baby this thing it's not reliable. Few basic products available other than dlr or OEM aftr mrkt suppliers with little discount. If there are some good and some bad, I got the one they made on friday afternoon w/5 beers down the hatch before they kicked it off the line and left work early. That said, I'm buying a Toyota FJ 40. If you're looking I have a Disco 1....everything on it is new. The back window is stuck down but since you live in the desert, no big deal right. | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2827 Registered: 02-2002 |
Sounds like Thomas here has a Monday car.... Alfas? Ducatis? You fit in well with the Rover, I suspect...... a) you can find parts through alternate sources than the dealer... you may want to plan ahead to handle mail-order delays, have replacement bits at hand, but, you can find stuff for a reasonable cost. Start searching the archives here for David Gage, Expedition Exchange, Nathan Crabtree, etc. etc. etc..... b) generic OBD-II will work fine.... just avoid an ACE-equipped Disco II. c) I pulled my Series Rover around with no ill effects. Motorcycles should be NO problem. Yeah, I think you'll be well suited. I'm not going to knock a LC, but, they're kinda like a Honda.... they'll reliably get you there, but they don't have the soul that a other vehicles have.... do you want what everyone else has, or do you want something a bit more suited to someone with a bit of personality? IMHO, FWIW..... -L | ||||||
| Brian Baker (Doubleb) Member Username: Doubleb Post Number: 42 Registered: 02-2002 |
I have a 1997 d1 with 120000 miles. Besides two window regulars, a throttle position sensors, and a fuel pump it has been a great vehicle. I pull a 2400 lbs Alumaweld boat and trailer through Eastern Washington on a 100+ degree days to banks lake over a 3500 feet pass at 60mph(disautel pass) 20 times a summer. The truck has never overheated or failed. The truck is like working on a 1972 ford torino with fuel injection and a computer. I just replaced the rear wheel bearings, burnt one up, because I didn't repack them this summer like I was going to do. | ||||||
| Rian Rhodes (Rockyrhodes) New Member Username: Rockyrhodes Post Number: 14 Registered: 06-2003 |
Hey David. I make the arduous trip (3000 miles total with play time in the middle)to Eugene every year from San Diego. 98 LSE(65K) with upgraded bumpers (TJM), Warn Winch, heavy duty springs, bilsteins and the stock XPC's. The only problem I have ever had is a faulty ABS Sensor. Luck? Maybe... Leaks, all rovers get then eventually. The past 3 trips have all had heavy snow (no chains) and/or rain all the way from Redding to Eugene and I have not gotten the chance to get stuck yet. This includes a fair amount of off roading in the cascades. No sliding in the snow or the rain at all. As far as it being able to fill the void of everything you want to achieve with your disco, you should have no problems. If you go used, accurate maint. records with frequent oil changes are the way to go. I am not sure about a brand spankin new rover, never owned one. | ||||||
| Peter J. Kelly (Pjkbrit) Member Username: Pjkbrit Post Number: 68 Registered: 05-2003 |
Thomas not only got a Friday afternoon car, sounds like he got the mechanic and or dealership from hell to go with it!!! | ||||||
| Brian Baker (Doubleb) Member Username: Doubleb Post Number: 43 Registered: 02-2002 |
I've also pulled the boat in a couple of ice a snow storms and there are no brakes on the trailer. I've put the four wheel drive to task in 8 to 10 inches of wet and dry snow. 6-8 inches of loose dirt and rock on torn up logging roads. I've been stuck once. A logging truck pulled me out of 2 feet of snow because I got cocky. | ||||||
| Tom Bittler (Timer) New Member Username: Timer Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 |
David I live in Portland and have had great luck with Land Rover Portland. I have a 2003 Freelander with Cooper discovery S/T tires and drove all over Portland during last weeks snow & ice storm. That was after I got the 1.5" of ice off the windshield. I go off roading in the Tillamook forest in mud or snow without any problems. I say try a Land Rover | ||||||
| Randy Maynard (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 726 Registered: 08-2002 |
David, First off, no vehicle is perfect, including a Toyota. Yes, teh Toyota MAY have an edge in reliability, but as said, it has no soul, and hell, everyone out there has one. But more importantly, Dweb is the best source of info, and it won't help a Toyota! Someone said get an '03 Disco....I say get an '04, it has CDL, it is the 5th and last year of the model with solid axle design. ACE is no longer available in the '04, no loss. The bugs have been worked out quite well, and if there are still issues, LR handles the recalls fairly well. Towing, I tow a landscape trailer, it handles it fine. I hae 62,000 on mine and it has never let me down. I'm pleased enuf that I am planning to get an '04 myself to use as a family vehicle until my '99 is finished and then I will swap over all the off-road gear. The truck does well in snow, stable and comfortable is wet conditions, and right out of the box it is probably the most capable off-road truck outside of an H1 or a jeep Rubicon. Good to hear about another motorcycle guy thinking LR. I have a Honda Valkyrie myself. | ||||||
| John Roche (Jroc) Member Username: Jroc Post Number: 215 Registered: 08-2002 |
../2/40522.html"#444444"> | Rene Marin (Rene_m) New Member Username: Rene_m Post Number: 13 Registered: 01-2004 |
Well i can say that my 1994 Discovery pulls my 2000lb low deck, flat bed trailer and a 3000lb Mustang all over the place and i have 150k on the motor. All i have ever chanded is tires, oil, filters, 1 belt and 1 water pump.. The same rover have been up and down Lions back and in every mud hole and rock trail i can find ,and i have never broke any thing.... I have on the other hand pulled quit a few out with my bone stock Rover.. In my life time have owned no less than 4 jeeps several modified and nothing will compare with my Rover off the road or when the weather is real bad... I realy has been the best 4x4 i have ever owned... | ||||
| Dave Crall (Discoverover) Member Username: Discoverover Post Number: 94 Registered: 11-2002 |
David, I'm not sure whether you are looking at the D1 or series II discovery, but stay away from 96' and 97's because many had exhaust valve/ carbon build-up problems. My 96' needed a valve job and ended up having a dropped cylinder sleeve at 40k miles. The block was replaced and all is fine now. A chip was added to the ecu to prevent this. A Rover will stand up better to your active life style than a Toyota (tougher frame, aluminum body, tougher suspension) plus the interior ergonomics, high roof and overall design suits trail driving better. Well cared for series II's should be very reliable. | ||||||
| Michael Noe (Noee) Senior Member Username: Noee Post Number: 829 Registered: 03-2002 |
Lot of good info here above, I'll just add this: If you're thinking D2 and you plan on going offroad more than just the occasional fire road, get one with CDL or CDL-capable. Search here, you'll find the years. Also, ETC chews up the D2 diffs, with consistent offroading, expect a life of 50K or less. ETC also eats rotors, but they're relatively cheap and easy to install, brakes too. D2 has a poorly designed front prop shaft, needs rebuilding with servicable parts. D2 has a rear rotoflex, will destruct and vibe if you got 3"+ lift in short order. There are porous blocks floating around on some D2s, it appears to manifest itself before 50K. Don't get an ACE truck, you'll probably find SLS a pain in the arse too. I replace the AT at 42K, terminal failure. Mine tows great (Polaris Sportsman 500, timber, gravel and such in a trailer). Knock on wood, my engine has been flawless, my electrics flawless so far. My D2 goes offroad at least two weekends a month. HTH | ||||||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1228 Registered: 09-2002 |
Dave, I have a 96, and (knock on the wood) never had a valve issue (143kmi now). I am sure there is plenty of other people on board with high-mileage '96 D1s and no valve problems. in fact, that '96 is the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. | ||||||
| David Bingham (Davidb) New Member Username: Davidb Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2004 |
http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/images.jtmpl?car_id=146003948&dealer_id=10297 87&cardist=99&&make=ROV&address=97702&search_type=used&model=DISCOV&drive=&max_p rice=&min_price=&start_year=1984&end_year=2005&car_year=1997&body_style=&engine= &distance=300&fuel=&advcd_on=y&advanced=y&transmission=MAN&doors=&max_mileage=&c ertified=n&color=& Hope the above link works. I am going to look at this truck. I think a Disco 1 with a manual is what I want and if I stay under a 100K in miles it will probably be ok. What should I look for on this truck, it does not come with any records at all so I will have to look pretty hard to find out if it has been cared for. I was told it came from a dealer auction in seattle. So odb2 works on engine diagnostics, how about the SRS and the ABS? | ||||||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 409 Registered: 01-2003 |
I've never had a wiper motor go before in my Disco. It happened twice in my Volvo, but not in my Disco. The Disco will tow. That's insane that someone said they won't. We flat tow our '59 Series 2 with no problems. 5500 lbs in high range is the rec. limit. | ||||||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 497 Registered: 04-2003 |
Seems pricey for a stick. | ||||||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 412 Registered: 01-2003 |
Yeah, that car is really overpriced. | ||||||
| Rian Rhodes (Rockyrhodes) New Member Username: Rockyrhodes Post Number: 15 Registered: 06-2003 |
OVERPRICED. That is the want to be high end dealer for Eugene, look somewhere else. | ||||||
| David Bingham (Davidb) New Member Username: Davidb Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2004 |
Yes, I agree. I think around $7500 for a nice rover disco 1 with a stick shift. The place in eugene says they get more for manual trans because they are rare. I will most likey buy from a private party anyways. I want to be able to interogate the seller about what maintenance they did and how they treated it. | ||||||
| Dave Crall (Discoverover) Member Username: Discoverover Post Number: 97 Registered: 11-2002 |
Peter, I had Robison Service fix my 96' discovery and they seem to see more engine problems with 96' and 97' early GEMS rovers. This isn't to say that these years are bad at all. It could be a false assumption, maybe more discoverys were produced in these years causing shops to see more of their problems. David, you might want to check out www.robisonservice.com they are very knowledgeable. Dave | ||||||
| ron morgan (Rpm2429) New Member Username: Rpm2429 Post Number: 18 Registered: 08-2003 |
Rovers Rock, period. I have a 96 D1 and have pulled my brother-in-laws new H2 and my other brother-in-laws fancy BMW X5 out of all kinds of sh-t, but they will never admit to it. The best compliment is to have them call me and say they won't go wheeling with anybody unless they have a land rover in the pack!! Ron | ||||||
| Davis Reed (Davis_reed) Member Username: Davis_reed Post Number: 42 Registered: 04-2003 |
Yes, I'm still gladly learning new stuff about my newly aquired passion for Land Rovers and I still have some basic questions. What is the downfall of the ACE besides the fact that the pump price is really high? Davis | ||||||
| Hugh Bischoff (Go_ducks) New Member Username: Go_ducks Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2004 |
David, Ditto what Rian says. They are an overpriced used car dealership. Lots of nice rovers out there. Check the SF Chronicle and Oregonian, those auction cars scare me. | ||||||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 211 Registered: 05-2003 |
I was told that...the suspension, ABS, and airbags needs frequent trips to the dealer to put out warning lights. I am told...every part I will ever need will have to come from the dealer. I am told...not be able to pull a trailer. And last but not least - but certainly the goofiest: I have been told that they can't go off road at all with out breaking or getting stuck. WHO told you all that? If any of us happen to run across him/her, we need a description, for our own personal safety.Tell them to change their meds. For parts, there is also British Pacific in So. Cal. There is an excellent, active Rover club in the Northwest, called amazingly enough, Northwest Land Rover Club. (I think) Check out autotrader.com or other similar sites. | ||||||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 994 Registered: 09-2002 |
Parts aren't that hard to come by. Albeit, it's not like walking into a generic auto parts store and being able to find parts for Fords or GMs but it is possible to find them. There are enough vendors in the US that you could probably find what you're looking for but you can always get them from the UK if you can wait. For small items, it may not be even worth the effort to try and get them from a different vendor than the dealer. So unless this guy has owned and worked on Rovers for a long time, I wouldn't take his comments as too gospel. This site in itself is proof that there are alternatives to dealer support. I hear people make comments about Rovers all the time but 99% of the time, it's second or third hand info or conjecture so quite often I don't take it too seriously unless it comes from a very knowledgable/reputable source. In fact, people are quite surprised when you correct them and it's the opposite of what they think. I'd say do your research and look for a Rover that's in really good shape and you'll be more than happy. | ||||||
| Travis Argyle (Targyle) New Member Username: Targyle Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Peterson's Four Wheel and Off-road said that the manual transmission is not up to the task of heavy use. The magazine suggested to look for an auto disco over the manual for this reason. | ||||||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 995 Registered: 09-2002 |
Yea, it's been mentioned a few times now in this thread and another one "Manual vs Auto" that the manual-box isn't as strong as the auto-box. | ||||||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 212 Registered: 05-2003 |
Does the N.A. spec R-380 use ATF? | ||||||
| James Hamilton (Rocknroll) New Member Username: Rocknroll Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 |
"A Rover will stand up better to your active life style than a Toyota (tougher frame, aluminum body, tougher suspension) plus the interior ergonomics, high roof and overall design suits trail driving better." Hey Dave, Care to elaborate? How is the Rover tougher? | ||||||
| eduardo (Jmonsrvr) Member Username: Jmonsrvr Post Number: 62 Registered: 07-2003 |
just got back from mexico-2000 plus miles in baja off/on road. no problems and its her 4 time down there doing the same trip-at least a month of time spent there and no major problems. get a disco 1. i have 95 disco and she runs great. have to do some part changes but nothing to crazy. shop around and get a good one. | ||||||
| Alex Cabrera (Alexcabrera) Member Username: Alexcabrera Post Number: 163 Registered: 12-2002 |
my observation.... David, You work on Ducatis' why? Rockers flaking? Parts hard to find? Dealer only parts? Excessive maintenance? (or so I've been told) You could get a Suzuki GSXR1000 that will beat the Ducs in speed, reliablitiy and maintenance. To me that is a fair comparison for a 4x4. You could go Japanese but it will be just like owning a Jap bike. Think about what attracted you to the Ducs and apply the same to your search. Sure some LR's are a bit finicky but not any more than Ducs. I've got 150K miles on my 1997 Disco and it is still running strong. I also do all the work myself. Get the Rover, a Shop Manual and your set. Alex Cabrera ps. I was shopping for a Duc but hoping to get a P-car soon. :-) Need for Speed. |
