| Author | Message | ||
     Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Senior Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 374 Registered: 09-2002 |
Just wondering if anyone found out from someone in the know if the US is able to order it and the specifics? I remember some talk several months ago just not sure how it ended. | ||
| Kenny Bissett (Jetson) Member Username: Jetson Post Number: 117 Registered: 07-2003 |
I'm interested in knowing more as well... | ||
| Michael Noe (Noee) Senior Member Username: Noee Post Number: 830 Registered: 03-2002 |
Yeah, you can 'em easy, might take some time (few months), might have to settle on a basic vehicle with basic colors, might not get to choose your color. Definitely gonna cost. | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 139 Registered: 10-2003 |
Aaron, A couple of months (Nov 4)ago there was an article on The Land Rover Chronicle (http://www.thelandroverchronicle.com/new_page_569.htm) saying that the CKD was going to be available in the US. Victor | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 626 Registered: 02-2003 |
its the real deal. I talked to a guy that knows a guy thats getting some, totally legit | ||
| Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) Senior Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 275 Registered: 05-2003 |
The guy I knew talked to the guy that knows the guy you know and can't confirm anything right now.. -Sorry i couldn't resist. | ||
| Jack Leitch (Liveattheedge) Member Username: Liveattheedge Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2003 |
how much are they gunna be. I was convinced that because of air bag regulations we were'nt gunna get any defenders untill the all new one comes out??? Jack | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 627 Registered: 02-2003 |
Its a kit car so i dont think the air bags matter. look at those Cobra replicas | ||
| chris cox (Roverpartsnc) New Member Username: Roverpartsnc Post Number: 13 Registered: 09-2003 |
A 110 crew cab was around $40k. | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 128 Registered: 08-2003 |
Bugger that - you'd be better off going on the grey market and importing a 110 from the UK - then find an old series and do a bit of DMV magic et voila - 1972 series 109 stretched an inch with a defender body on it  | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 129 Registered: 08-2003 |
Or you could always do this to get yourself a defender http://www.worldoffroad.com/vehicles/tew.asp The level of work would probably be about the same as a CKD Jeff | ||
| Kenny Bissett (Jetson) Member Username: Jetson Post Number: 118 Registered: 07-2003 |
40k! What a joke...sounds like they are trying to capitalize on the well known desire for Defenders...wait, that's the right thing to do then I guess? I don't know, but I would definitely put down some cash if they started at 30k... Kenny | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Senior Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 560 Registered: 02-2003 |
For 40k might as well buy a totaled a NAS spec d90 and rebuild.... | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 140 Registered: 10-2003 |
Based on prices at: http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/Products/Defender/The_Models/Station_Wagon/option s_and_prices.htm Country Station Wagon: 24,495.00 GBP = 44,869.54 USD Station Wagon Td5: 22,995.00 GBP = 42,121.54 USD XS Station Wagon Td5: 27,995.00 GBP = 51,279.12 USD Looks like the cost of a brand new CKD is about the same cost as a brand new Defender. Victor | ||
| Kenny Bissett (Jetson) Member Username: Jetson Post Number: 119 Registered: 07-2003 |
Whatever, they're out of their freakin minds! I guess I'll never have a 110...sob...at least not a brand new one! Kenny | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 141 Registered: 10-2003 |
Kenny, Considering what they get for a brand new H2 or H1 $40K sounds like a bargan. Heck, it's even got a Leather steering wheel and Brunel Switch Panel. I don't think you get them with a Hummer. Victor | ||
| Jack Leitch (Liveattheedge) Member Username: Liveattheedge Post Number: 60 Registered: 12-2003 |
seats more that the hummer aswell. Seriously, the hummer inside feels like it's got less room than a suburban. | ||
| Kenny Bissett (Jetson) Member Username: Jetson Post Number: 120 Registered: 07-2003 |
Have to agree with you there Victor. Precisely why I love the 110 so much - 9 passenger capacity! It's also the best looking Land Rover ever built IMO! If I was given the choice, I'd pick the 110 over the hummer hands down. Although there's something about the H1 that is quite appealing as well? hmmm..where are those lottery tickets? Kenny | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 220 Registered: 09-2002 |
Don't worry Kenny, there's always what, 2008/2009 when we can start bringing over One-Tens and dumping vast amounts of money into them! I keep living the dream too... Ray | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 142 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ray, There was a thread here recently regarding bringing Defenders from the '90s into the US. There was a URL for a page on how to do it written by a fellow in - I think - Florida. If I recall correctly, because LRNA was bringing them into the US at that time, the basic design was approved. There were a couple of additions, such as catalytic converters, that needed to be added and a whole pile of paperwork. I beleive the total cost was around the $5k mark with shipping. That was assuming that the thing was LHD to begin with. I wish I could find the page. It had links to all the relevant US government web pages. Victor | ||
| Adrian Strata (Adrians) Member Username: Adrians Post Number: 47 Registered: 02-2003 |
Victor, Perrone should be able to give you that information. A guy from his club (Spanish Trail Rovers) imported one. Here is his email [email protected] Adrian | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 221 Registered: 09-2002 |
Victor- Most of what I know about that came from posts like that and the fundamental truth of what you said is there: there DOT allows for importation of 1993 Defender 110's, which then have to be brought up to U.S. specs by a registered importer. While it might only be about 5k in parts, most people's actual cost is significantly more than that after labor, fees, and the like are done. Basically the red tape involved with it precludes you from getting a truck out of a container, taking it home, slapping cats on, putting on the roll cage like the 1993 NAS D110, and the other odds and ends that probably wouldn't be too hard, so you're stuck going through the short list of registered importers that deal with Land Rovers vice things like Porshe's, or Nissan Skylines or other 'high end' vehicles that really bring in big bucks. The Spainish Trail Rover's website has a good write up on it I think, so Adrian's post is right on, to my knowledge it comes down to "Where there's a will, there's a way" along with "money can make a lot of things happen" but I don't think its that cheap, otherwise there wouldn't be many 1993 D110's in the UK left as all of us would be bringing them over! Recently there was a 1993 CT D110 for sale in PA, and its sticker cost was $60k I think, of course some of that is b/c it was CT, but a lot of it was b/c it also had to go the registered importer route to be legal. Thats why, in my opinion, I'll just wait on the dream for a little while and if I'm still keen on it a few years from now, bring over a 110 and do a frame-up on it so you've built you're own truck the way you want it. Others do it with RRC or Series chasis too, its all in what you want and how you want to get there, I just look at the absurdly low cost of Defender's overseas and say "One day, when they go past the 25 year mark, you can get a lot of bang for your buck..." Just my thoughts...I'd love to hear some better success stories with running the importation gambit at a 'reasonable' cost. r- Ray | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 130 Registered: 08-2003 |
Just my 10 cents worth - but whats to stop someone re-shelling a series 3a ? Buy a D110 in the UK shipped over as parts - of course you'd have to get it pulled apart first. Series are importable now so getting the "donor" series wouldn't be a problem - of course on the grey side of legality but if you're going to keep it anyway - does it really matter ? It ends up as kit car status anyway even if you go the CKD route - so why not save a few $'s . Just a thought Jeff | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 131 Registered: 08-2003 |
And by golly I think something similar has been done http://www.thelandroverchronicle.com/new_page_431.htm Jeff | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 132 Registered: 08-2003 |
Or there's always the hybrid route. The end results look every bit as good as a D90 http://www.worldoffroad.com/vehicles/tew.asp Jeff | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 222 Registered: 09-2002 |
Jeff- Which article were you talking about that discussed coiling up at Series III? I read the hybrid one and found it really interesting-especially due to the 100" wheel base, and I've read Mike Slade's write up on his phenomenal crew-cab, but didn't see anything about doing it with a Series as the base vehicle that then gets "modified" into a Defender. I'm not certain, but another route that I discussed with a guy at MAR is to get a 110, 90 or Defender 110/90 without the engine and ship it over, and then get an engine on the side. His particular vehicle was an ex-MOD 90 with a 200 TDI that he just had shipped over in a different container. Not sure of all the legality issues with that, but it certainly goes down the path of taking a junked 90, 109, or what have you and 'rebuilding' the truck into whatever you want. And if you look here: http://www.witham-sv.com/infopage.php?ID=11&Overide=0 You see that the ex-MOD trucks are fairly cheap, plentiful, and they would probably be more than happy to turn it into a rolling chasis by removing the engine... just another way to skin the cat... | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 133 Registered: 08-2003 |
Hi Ray - - Mike Slades crew cab was built on a 127 which is a series rover - the 130 is the defender variant - the same thing would should hold true for a 109 to 110 or 88 to 90. In reality it is probably a pretty grey area - i.e. it is perfectly legal to put a new chassis on a series. it is also perfectly legal to replace panels. I do like the idea of bringing a defender over as a rolling chassis (parts) - although you'd still need a second (legal) chassis with which to obtain the title/plate. You gotta love the epa/govt agencies - the only reason the defender hasn't been in the US since inception is due to crash testing/emissions - but I bet a D110 would stand a better chance in crash testing than say a suzuki vitara and as for emissions - my old 86 camaro had far worse emissions than most D110 - although it did need a set of rings Jeff | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 224 Registered: 09-2002 |
Jeff- I'm with ya on putting a new chassis under a series, and new panels (new roof too, roll up windows perhaps, etc...) and new bonnet, engine, etc, and all the sudden-wow, its a defender. I thought the 127 was the 130-they just added 3" to the name for clarity when the changed it from 90/110/127 to Defender 90/110/130 or something like that (http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/LandRover/Defender/130.html) And I totally agree that the safety of a well built Defender is a lot better than some of the tin cans on the roads today, and the evidence is in the studies in the UK about vehicle safety where the Defender came in first as far as fewest fatalities and injuries to occupants (pecentage wise) Luckily, the Disco came in second. In any case, that write up for Mike S's crewcab is an inspiration for purpose-built trucks indeed. | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 861 Registered: 02-2002 |
basically you are describing my Series IIa 109 which imho looks better than a Defender body, yet, whatever floats your boat for the shell. it started as a donor 109 and is now a SIIa with a 110 drivetrain - EFIV8, LT230, etc.. no problem getting a title and registering in OK. insured for agreed upon value. Jaime | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 226 Registered: 09-2002 |
Jaime, Did you switch over to coil springs too? How hard was putting in the V8 where the what, 2.25(?) used to live? | ||
| Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Senior Member Username: Markp Post Number: 251 Registered: 02-2002 |
Another article for consideration: http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_c ode=index&content_code=04593777 "The materials cost of a Defender 110 is about $15,000, sent in pieces from the plant in Solihull, England." | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 862 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ray, yes, it is a coil spring frame. it was a NADA 109 so it had the 6 cylinder engine which is a problem child to maintain. stuffing a V8 into a Series has been done more often than most realize. the purists don't like the idea and I can appreciate that thought. Yet, we actually use the 109 both off & on road and on long trips, etc. so for us we wanted some reliability. please don't get the impression I did this restoration as ECR did it for me. if you're interested, the build-up is here http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Thompson109.html Jaime  | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 135 Registered: 08-2003 |
How about an old Disco chassis? Question for the real experts out there - is it possible to fit a D90/110 on a Disco chassis ? Think about it - people build Hybrids out of RR's. Any thoughts ? Jeff | ||
| Jack Leitch (Liveattheedge) Member Username: Liveattheedge Post Number: 65 Registered: 12-2003 |
i've seen it done when i was in england over the summer. Hybrid rovers are a lot more common over there. The range rover and discovery chassis are the same size so they both work. It means chopping the chassis though, and unless you are a top grade schooled welder i wouldn't want to drive a slice and dice chassis on the road. If i were doing it i would buy a ECR coil sprung 90/110 chassis and put it on a seires 88/109 body and bring the grill out and drop a v8 in. Jack | ||
| Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Senior Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 375 Registered: 09-2002 |
Jamie out of curiosity how much did that set you back. I was wondering about the snow in the pic on you name. | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 144 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi, Please clear something up for me. Exactly how "knocked down" is the CKD? It sounds like the whole thing arrives in the same container but "the majority of global assembly occurs in Solihull, England" and is the assembly is completed at "six global facilities". At what point does the vehicle move from being a "Kit assembled in the US" to being a vehicle being built in the US. It sounds odd that this is being done for a $40,000 Land Rover, but there aren't people doing this for the $500,000 Ferrari Enzo. It would seem there is a lot more room for people to pay a premium at the Ferrari price point than the fairly normally priced Defender. At the current premium that is being charged for Defenders right now, why don't we see a couple of these thing for sale in the Discoweb classifieds or on eBay. Sounds like a great cottage industry. The CKD story can't be as simple as it sounds. This just sounds too good to be true. Victor | ||
| Jack Leitch (Liveattheedge) Member Username: Liveattheedge Post Number: 68 Registered: 12-2003 |
i agree, i've re-searched quite a bit into stripping down a 110 and re-assembling it here. The consensus was that customs wouldn't let it in because it isn't a kit vehicle, its just a striped down 110. as i've found, easy to think these things out but there a whole lot harder to act out. Jack | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1070 Registered: 04-2003 |
Exhaustive research has led to a very reputable source which informed me that the CKD will be readily available in the US, and at far less cost than the $40k quoted above. | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 145 Registered: 10-2003 |
Blue, Do you know how much have they actually dis-assembled, or not assembled, the CKD. When they talk about assembly at "six global facilities" is that to say that LRNA is one? Victor | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2843 Registered: 02-2002 |
A CKD is set up to be easily/quickly assembled at the end-point. Not one big crate, instead it's in several crates, a half dozen or so, maybe. A lot of the bits are already assembled, like the dash. It really is pretty close to a meccano kit. Land Rover has been doing this since the 50's. And, it's really done for the sake of legal tax evasion. When you import assembled vehicles into another country, you have to pay more serieous duties than if you import automobile parts. By having a CKD, you're not importing a drivable vehicle. Once the crates are at an assembly area, you unpack and assemble, and have then created a vehicle on that other country's soil. Thus, you don't have to pay import taxes at the same rate. If it wasn't for that tax advantage, Land Rover would've just made 'em all in Solihull and shipped complete vehicles out from there. Setting it up so that you can pull production vehicles out before completion, package them up for shipment, but have them completed far enough along so that they can be easily assembled, is more trouble than just going ahead and making them. It just brings enough savings from dodging the tax bullet to make it worth the trouble. Land Rover wasn't doing this for the US all along, because it wasn't a tax advantage here. It was more convenient for places like the Pacific, Africa, etc. LRNA is not one of the existing CKD facilities. It would make sense to turn it into one, but, then you'd just be buying a vehicle from LRNA instead of a CKD. One thing to think about is liability. If they can sell it as a "kit" or just as "parts", then they may be able to dodge the liability. But they can't sell them if they're going to be liable for vehicles that they didn't assemble to their specifications. Think about it: if you could buy a new F-150 in bits, put it together in your garage, drove down the interstate and it flew apart and killed someone, is Ford going to accept liability? Would it really be Ford's fault? I have to admit, I'd LOVE to have one of these. And, actually, part of the attraction would be if I could put it together myself.... Downside for me is, even it if twas half the price of the $40k, it'd still not be easy to fit into my budget. Tell ya what, though..... if anyone wants: Order up two kits and ship them to me, I keep one for myself and I'll assemble the other for ya... -L | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 864 Registered: 02-2002 |
aaron, we were able to sell our 95D90SW at the peak of D90 craziness and basically used the proceeds to fund the project. only addtional cost above that was the purchase of a 4.0V8 and a LT230 as we wanted it set-up as a 110. trust that gives you some idea of the $. the pic is taken in front of ECR up in Maine where snow lingers into late Spring most of the time anyhow. its been awhile now, yet, I think it was April when the pic was taken. Jaime  | ||
| Jack Leitch (Liveattheedge) Member Username: Liveattheedge Post Number: 84 Registered: 12-2003 |
the best report on the situation with the CKD 110 i found was here; http://www.tawayama.com/gear/defenderckd.html ther also the best pics ive found. I think LandRover are still trying to wiggle ther way around the loopholes. Anyone know what the kit car regulations are for california? Cheers Jack | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 157 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi all, While investigating what the process for the Canadian market would be, I came across this thread from the Rover-Landers of BC BBS. By way of summary, the poster is buying brand new LHD Defenders (90, 110, and 130s), disassembling them and importing them. These are not CKDs, but Defenders that were disassembled. Not the same process,but he has posted quite a bit of information on the process for importing and registering "Kit Cars". The URL is: http://www.openroad.ca/landrover/classifieds/showmsg.mv?message=812 cheers Victor | ||
| John Kruger (Johnnyk) Senior Member Username: Johnnyk Post Number: 295 Registered: 02-2002 |
It is possible to bring parts in, build a truck in your garage and go to your local DMV and have them issue a new VIN. Each state has different requirements, but it can and has been done. Only a small percentage of Rover owners could honestly get the CKD kit or a parts truck together and turn it into a Rover. This is not an easy undertaking, if you do not have the experience or cash or really close mechanically inclinded friends that owe you favors, it would be a waste of money. The reason this is not done with a Ferrari is by design, defenders are like giant erector sets, Ferraris are not. John www.teampb.com | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2881 Registered: 02-2002 |
Well, John's right about getting your local DMV to issue you a VIN. I started knock his statement about "Only a small percentage Rover owners" managing, but, then I realized that my perspective is skewed given the number of Rover owners I know being Series Rover folk..... lol.... But, the latter statement, "defenders are like giant erector sets", would seem to contradict the previous statement, eh? Anyway, like I said.... anyone who wants one put together, buy two and I'll put 'em together and keep one for myself and give the other back to ya.... -L | ||
| John Kruger (Johnnyk) Senior Member Username: Johnnyk Post Number: 296 Registered: 02-2002 |
L- I forget how many 'other' rover owners are out there. It is easy to expect others to have the same knowledge you have, or lack thereof. Why is the statement "defenders are like giant erector sets" contradictory? Not everyone can build something from an erector set, unless they have the step-by-step instructions. Anyways, it can be done, has been done, and should be done again.... John | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2891 Registered: 02-2002 |
Exactly..... For some, it's an easy, fun project. For some, it'd be challenging but doable. For others, it'd be a bad experience. And then there are those who would end up with a pile of unusable parts, or a very dangerous jalopy. Anyway, I'd love to have one, I'd love to put one together, etc. Just too many other bills to pay before I could buy one of my own...... lol.... -L |
