| Author | Message | ||
     Eric Thatcher (Discodork) New Member Username: Discodork Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2004 |
I know I have leaky injectors. I have looked at all the LR sources and it is about $600 to buy the OEM LR injectors. I saw a post on here about using some new Corvette injectors that sell on Ebay for about $178 for a set of eight. Has anyone actually tried this? It seems too good to be true. | ||
| Seth Oatway (Seth_w) New Member Username: Seth_w Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2003 |
I just purchased a set and will be installing them shortly. Will let you know what happens. Seth | ||
| Seth Oatway (Seth_w) New Member Username: Seth_w Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2003 |
Just finished installing the new "corvette" injectors, car started up just fine and seems to drive normally.BE SURE TO CHECK THE T PIECE IN YOUR EMISSION HOSES AS IT CAN EASILY CLOG WITH CARBON AND RAISE HELL WITH STARTING! | ||
| Tim Wilkin (Twilkin) New Member Username: Twilkin Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2003 |
Do those injectors work on a 97 D1. Do you have a part #? Tim | ||
| Mike Bowers (Mikebowers) New Member Username: Mikebowers Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2003 |
What about a 95 Disco at that price i might as well just change all of my injectors. | ||
| Will Tillery (Will) Senior Member Username: Will Post Number: 305 Registered: 11-2002 |
All RRC,Defender 90 Discovery I,Range Rover 4.6 and 4.0 injectors are the same...so if they fit his truck they should fit yours...Keep us posted...BTW what year Corvette are those advertised as... | ||
| Mike Bowers (Mikebowers) New Member Username: Mikebowers Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2003 |
I was curious if the injectors you are talking about are the ones with the pink tops part # 0280150561. I found a website that sells them for $188 a set. http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsTPI.asp If these are the ones your talkin about let me know. Thanx. Mike | ||
| Seth Oatway (Seth_w) New Member Username: Seth_w Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yes these are the injectors from Fiveomotorsports, he seems quite knowledgeable about applications. I called and was able to get them for 173.95 plus 10.00 shipping. Seems cheaper than cleaning the old ones.Anyone have any negative input? Thanks Seth | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 217 Registered: 05-2003 |
Hmmm...I would be cautious about using Corvette injectors in a different application. Why not just use some goofy Ford or Chrysler injector. Just 'cuz its an injector doesn't mean it's correct for a Rover engine. Injectors are engineered to work in specific applications: i.e. different spray patterns for different combustion chamber design, differnt pressures, more (or less) volume for specific engines. I would think the Vette injector would pump in more gas than a Rover engine wants. You may get worse milage and heat up your cats with the unburned gas. Unless the Corvette injector is the exact Bosch cross-over part number, I think your asking for trouble. I got a set of new injectors for $344 (plus seals) for my '90 3.9 from an authorized Bosch dealer. Yeah, I know its 2X the 'vette injectors, but they're the right ones. Again, unless they're an exact cross-over match, I'd pass. Then again, you may have lucked out, and they're fine. I just wouldn't want to be the Guinea Pig. Go here: http://www.boschservice.com/http-docs/dsl1.html | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 218 Registered: 05-2003 |
Plus the injector in question looks like its rated at 22 lbs. Does that match the Rover injector? The Rover pump pressure puts out 36 -38 lbs. Also, the fine print mentions flow rate and electrical characteristics are matched to originals. Which originals? - why the Camero and Corvette 350 engine originals, not Land Rover 3.9's, 4.0's or 4.6's, which are 75 to 100 cubic inches less displacement. I think some counter guy just wanted to make a sale and was blowing smoke, and it wasn't in your face. JMO | ||
| Porter Mann (Porter) Member Username: Porter Post Number: 113 Registered: 05-2003 |
Seth, where is that emissions T-connection? I have a Disco 96. I've been thinking along the same lines as Eric's comments - that different brand injectors are designed for different engines, so then since these are Buick motors, what about finding compatable injectors for Buick with the same motor? | ||
| Zach C (Pearlsnaps) New Member Username: Pearlsnaps Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2004 |
I've got Accels in mine (158021) $180. 88 RRC 4.6. They are rated at 21 lbs/hr. I have had no problem at all. The Land Rover ones (ERR722) are 23.67 lbs/hr. I also installed a adjustable fuel pressure regulator that mounts on the factory fuel rail from Accel(74560) also, I'm running 30psi. The truck runs great. | ||
| Mike Bowers (Mikebowers) New Member Username: Mikebowers Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2003 |
What about these injectors it says its for a range rover 3.9 they should work in my disco 3.9. Right? http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsENGLAND.asp | ||
| Seth Oatway (Seth_w) New Member Username: Seth_w Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2003 |
Porter, the T I'm refering to is in the vent line running from the valve cover to the intake plenum.If you follow it from the valve cover you will find the T in the middle with a small hose running from the T back to the plenum. Pull the hoses apart and remove the T. There is a small brass insert in it that can be carefully removed with pliers,clean all openings and put it back together. Many thanks to Jeff J for the info on these injectors!!! Mike if you are worried about long term problems call FiveO at562 394 7218 and see where they came up with the application. Personally I'm not concerned with too much fuel, as the pulse width of the injectors is controlled by the ECM through signals from the O2 sensors and the MAF sensor. | ||
| Sven S (Sven95lwb) New Member Username: Sven95lwb Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2003 |
Yup, Just installed the same injectors from FiveOMotorsports on my 95 RRC...Starts up quicker and also got rid of my high RPM miss. I highly recommend them too. Comes with a five year warantee as well. | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Senior Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 310 Registered: 07-2003 |
Zach, Any difference in gas mileage? | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 189 Registered: 04-2003 |
Don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but I would be very leary of this; like all the other proclimations on the board about non-Rover stepper motors, ignition coils, O2 sensors, etc. Whenever I take actual measurements of these so-called direct replacements, it is clear that they are NOT the same specs. But of course it is possible that this is the same part, i haven't had them tested. Not to pick on Sven, but i can see your posting as I type..."Yup, Just installed the same injectors from FiveOMotorsports on my 95 RRC...Starts up quicker and also got rid of my high RPM miss. I highly recommend them too. Comes with a five year warantee as well." Obviously Sven was really badly in need of clean injectors. This is no way to compare to the usual replacement part. I also saw a one year "guarantee" when i visited the site, not five years. Also I would like to say that I have a set of brand new LR injectors that I don't even want. And that is because I have a bucket full of injectors that are going to be balanced and blueprinted for $20 each. Again, not trying to start a rucuss or pick on Sven. Just don't like seeing people waste their time and money on the wrong parts. Randall | ||
| Sven S (Sven95lwb) New Member Username: Sven95lwb Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2003 |
Damn I didnt mean to upset anyone...But Im just trying to save a few bucks. Genuine or not, I dont care!! The fuel injection system on this car is quite simple compared to other cars. And if a non-geniune part will work:Great! I mean my Rover is not a race car, I dont need Balanced and Blueprinted anything..I just want to enjoy my vehicle for what it is. Not to mention, Im just responding to Eric's original question: "Has anyone actually tried this?" Im not trying to tell people what to, Im just giving my experiences like everyone else. | ||
| Jeff J (Jeffj) New Member Username: Jeffj Post Number: 25 Registered: 04-2003 |
I also looked into this before I bought these. FiveO has cross matched these back to the original LR injectors to verify that they will match. I contacted them about this. These are not necesarily corvette injectors. These are a Ford/Bosch Design II injector. These just happend to come out of crate LT1 engines and others. This same injector will also work on Ford 4.6 and Dodge 4 - 8 cylinder applications and others. Like Sven, I just didn't want to spend the cash which LR wants for them when replacements will work just as good if not better. I race many cars and do injector swaps all of the time to get correct air/fuel ratios for the application. If you prefer to spend the cash which LR want for the same injector, that's your choice. This was just brought up to help save others some cash and get a product which will work to original specs. In my particular case these helped my '97 Disco start much better and run much smoother. Injectors are not rocket science and LR does not have custom made injectors from Bosch that do not match others on the market. FiveO also has over 1300 positive feed backs with only 4 negative on e-bay. Just my personal experience, this usually means that they are a pretty trust worthy business. I'm in no way related to them, I've just worked with them on may parts. This is also just my experience which I thought I would share with others. One thing I am experienced with is working with many injectors for different race and street applications and working with the proper fuel curve mapping. But others can make their own choices. | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 231 Registered: 05-2003 |
I would have no problem ordering THESE. Mike - Where is the $188, when this post is right off their site? Maybe they were on sale? Dang, I coulda' saved about $120 from these guys. http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_Sets.asp - Then go to "Range Rover" Range Rover 3.9 Cross-referenced, Original equipment Bosch/Ford 0280150561-21lb $226 Set/ | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 191 Registered: 04-2003 |
Yeah... no getting bent out shape over each other's well intended advice. I do consider myself to be something of an expert on the LR fuel injection. And I am into building high performance engines(not race car stuff). And I already have a lifetime supply of injectors, so I won't buy these pink ones. Also have a set of brand new injectors for the Bosch(99 &up) type LR engines that are for sale too. We need indepent conformation that these $188 injectors are suitable replacements. Ex: same spray pattern, same resistance, same filter, same durability etc. If you buy a $20 ignition coil, the engine just starts stalling a few months later; but there is an easy fix, intall the correct coil. Non-spec injectors have the potential to create problems of unknown proportions. Randall | ||
| Seth Oatway (Seth_w) New Member Username: Seth_w Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2003 |
I called FiveO directly and asked for the injectors at the 173.95 price listed on Ebay. They were happy to honor that price plus 10.00 dollars shipping. Seth | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 591 Registered: 11-2002 |
Randall , there isnt some kind of injector black magic or voodoo. Its a small electrical solonoid that simply recieves a pulse. If you got the engine up on a dyno , MAYBE , just maybe you would see some loss due to pattern or flow but I highly doubt it... In fact , these people are probably seeing a gain over what was in there before all varnished up. As far as high performance ? High performance what ? Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 564 Registered: 11-2002 |
well yes and no  no its not voodoo but yes there is alot of difference in injectors. I happen to have full access to a injector flow bench, I have run lots of different injectors from different cars on it over the last dozen or so years and there are dramatic differences in what they produce given the same signal. The total flow volume and pattern make a big difference in how a vehicle will run as well. a motor with short runners needs a wide fine pattern to avoid lean areas in the combustion chamber due to the fact the intake charge dosent have time to distribute the fuel evenly. replacing the correct injector with a narrow pattern injector such as one intended for a forced induction application will cause pings and a reduction in power due to a less efficient burn. now one thing to keep in mind is many motors share the same injector part number. my V12 BMW takes the same injector that a early 90's ford SHO taraus takes. So it would not surprise me to find that there are much cheaper sources to find compatible injectors for a rover v8. Kyle is right about the High performance what part. very very very seldom will a injector change alone net any gains what so ever.dont forget motors are all about balence just adding more fuel will not produce more power. you still need more air and enough properly timed spark along with it to gain power. MM | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 195 Registered: 04-2003 |
Thom, thanks for taking the time to post. I am just trying to help my fellow LR owners and to help their Rover V8s live a long life. It's fun to post on this board like we know everthing. But of course we don't actually know everything. I too would not be suprised to find that an exact replacement was available in pink for a fraction of the price. However I would be shocked if a reputable Rover parts vendor started selling these ijectors. I own a mail order company myself. And i can tell you it's hard enough to stay in business. If you sell crap... forget it. Thom, with all your vast amount of experience, breathing fumes, at that flow bench: You think I can pick up 1 or 2% more torque by balancing a set of injectors? Can't talk me out of it. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 596 Registered: 11-2002 |
Randall , didnt you just say you considered yourself an expert on LR injection ? Now you are asking Musky here how to do something else... "Blow me" | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1537 Registered: 02-2003 |
"something of an expert" kyle. he added the proper precursor. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1185 Registered: 04-2003 |
LOL, all that effort to fine tune & balance for what? one extra lb/ft? maybe two? why not just try losing a few pounds on your person and you'll "see" the same increase in performance when you get behind the wheel. LOL | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 597 Registered: 11-2002 |
I( am jsut trying to break up all this "Expert" opinion that seems to have gotten out of hand in the last year.. They are coming out of the wood work now. before it was just perronney... "Blow me" | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 233 Registered: 05-2003 |
blew, You shoulda' quit while you were ahead, like after your first sentence. Then you posted... why not just try losing a few pounds on your person and you'll "see" the same increase in performance when you get behind the wheel.<p>WTF?LOL | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1290 Registered: 09-2002 |
say it again, Eric? | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1187 Registered: 04-2003 |
yeah, say again? | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 196 Registered: 04-2003 |
Yes. Anything(weight) not required by law is subject to being removed from my truck. That's another subject. I don't know what else to say except that you are taking a risk right now by installing these injectors. But I'm certain that you could improve your engine(however little) by having injectors blueprinted to spec. Your destiny awaits you. Randall, the guy who pasted you this morning in a grey RR. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1189 Registered: 04-2003 |
sure, you gotta use the right part for the right purpose.... I'm just saying that trying to tweak an extra 1% or even double it to 2% is pretty insignificant. Kind of like the guy who was planning on replacing every fastener on his disco with Ti....save a couple pounds, then go have a cheeseburger and you lose all that magically gained performance | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1291 Registered: 09-2002 |
Randall, it seems to me the origin of this thread was not to improve performance by 1 or 2%, but find some generic part to rob the LR dealer from its bread and butter. IMHO, people who [claim that they] go after 1 or 2% gains are the ones keeping Tornado makers afloat. I wonder how do you even measure 1 or 2% gain in torque... For a person who claimed himself to be specializing in hi-po engines, you ask some funny questions and post some funny stuff. | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 197 Registered: 04-2003 |
Wished I hadn't of mentioned the term "high performance" now. But it's for real. Always has been, always will be. These LR engines are the easiest to modify because they are so conservative to begin with. Also the CUX system is ideal for the purpose. Obviously I don't know everything. Just fun trying to act like it, and help some people along the way. | ||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 991 Registered: 02-2002 |
I thought the Rover Gods spoke through you? | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1292 Registered: 09-2002 |
Really? What's so conservative about them? They make just about as much torque as they can for their displacement; short of supercharging them, how do you get more torque? They may run short of breath at high rpm - okay, you can improve upon that by, say, 20%. So you'll get more power at 5500 rpm and above. But what will keep the rotating assembly together past that? By the time you're done with custom balanced rods, pistons, ported manifolds, etc., the minute differences in spray pattern will be long since forgotten. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 600 Registered: 11-2002 |
Amen,,,,,,,,,,and after all of that. A nice stroker would seem like a better route to have gone.... But I want teh "Expert" thing explained and not blown off... "Blow me" | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 601 Registered: 11-2002 |
Why do we have so many "Experts" asking so many stupid questions ? "Blow me" | ||
| Eric N (Eric_n) New Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 18 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hell, by now you already know the answer to that one Kyle. | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 527 Registered: 04-2003 |
Is that you, Eric the Green Rover? If so, welcome back.... | ||
| gil stevens (Gil) Senior Member Username: Gil Post Number: 384 Registered: 02-2002 |
"They may run short of breath at high rpm " im no expert.. and Im not suggesting anyone do this, as im sure the long term effects cant be good, but, i was playing around with the testbook the other day and i remaped my 97 4.0 to a fuelmap from a 01 range rover 4.6 hse. Under 3000rpms, no noticable difference, from 3000 on up it feels like I bolted on a turbo. It kept pulling until 5500. the truck obviously runs a little rich, I ran it like that for 1 week and then mapped it back to a 4.0. there you go.. super easy "high performance" and high rpm power. | ||
| Brian Baker (Doubleb) Member Username: Doubleb Post Number: 70 Registered: 02-2002 |
How do you "balance" a set of injectors. Now blueprint maybe (i.e. set or rebuild to factory specifications}. Do you balance them on the end of your finger and see what side they fall to and then place weights on the opposite side. | ||
| Bill Ross (Billr) Member Username: Billr Post Number: 136 Registered: 11-2002 |
"Why do we have so many "Experts" asking so many stupid questions ?" Because it's the Internet, that's why! Signed, The Voice of God (at least for today and because it's the Internet) | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 198 Registered: 04-2003 |
Building a xxxxxxx engine is lot's of fun for me. I feel like a child on Christmas day when I am in my machine shop. I'm extremely happy because my engines use the CUX EFI system. I enjoy helping other LR owners diagnose problems with thier EFI systems. I would rather die than have to take my truck to the dealer and ask him to fix it. When I do die i'm going to be buried in my truck with all my engines, and I'm going to Rover heaven. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1293 Registered: 09-2002 |
Gil, it is really simple matter. At the same amount of load, each revolution of crankshaft results in a certain amount of material removed from the bearings, cylinder walls, pistons/rings, etc. That means, if you run your engine at 4-5rpm as opposed to "usual" 2-2.5k in everyday driving, you'll shorten its life by half. But it's all moot, for how exactly do you make your engine spin much faster than 3k in a stock-geared truck on the highway? And you said you felt not much difference under 3k? (of course, you can drive it in the 2nd gear, with a trailer in tow. But something tells me the engine won't see even a half of its life). Randall, what would you do to a CUX-EFI'ed engine in your machine shop? | ||
| Eric N (Eric_n) New Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 20 Registered: 01-2004 |
Yup, it's me Andrew. Hello to you too. Eric N (GRNRVR) | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 199 Registered: 04-2003 |
Peter, for a LR 4.6 engine: The usual stuff that you would do to make the engine run more efficiently over a wider rpm range. Just well proven, labor intensive proceedures that are fun to do. Block: Balance and blueprint everything. Which just requires lot's of precision measurements, and a clean organized space. When you find variances, you have to plan a way to correct them. Use a cam with more overall lift than stock, then degree it in with vernier chain set. For the heads on a LR you can port match on a mill, then blend them and touch up around the valve seats. Machine around the guides for dual springs. You can also port match the exhaust and intake manifolds. Shorten the ram pipes a little bit, plus numerous changes to the intake(like my now infamous blueprinted injectors). Stock ignition is fine. Reprogram chip to match engine. Plus there are numerous dress up details that can be done with a vat of paint stripper and some engine paint. Somebody will probably be here soon to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Randall | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 565 Registered: 11-2002 |
I would not call my time on the flow bench vast, but I do have a friend that at his BMW tunning shop has a complete injector service station. I have over the years pulled the injectors on many many vehicles and flushed and flow tested them. very often you will find one or two that will be way out of spec in either flow or pattern. Balancing refers to the proccess of testing many injectors and creating sets that most closely match each other in flow volume and pattern. all the "blue printing" and balencing is a little overboard for what a rover does, but flushing them and checking them to see what they produce after a bunch of miles isnt a bad idea. and from what I have seen very seldom do you need to purchase a whole new set. Just replace the ones that dont come back to within 5% of spec and you should be good to go. Thom...no expert | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 201 Registered: 04-2003 |
What ever you choose to do, you don't need to spend $700 on a new set. | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 234 Registered: 05-2003 |
Randall, I just got my '90 3.9 back and had a bit of work done on it. Heads have bigger valves - SS chrome plated, Bronze/Phosphor guides with the grooves inside and cut so they don't protrude into the port, blending from the seats on out a couple inches. The block was bored for .020" over, 9.35:1 pistons, instead of the stock 8.13:1. File fit moly rings (+11-13 h.p.) Cloyes timing chain, balanced rotating mass, and last but not least, a custom ground Iskedarian cam. .450 lift intake. .445 lift exhaust. I have the cam spec. sheet if anyones interested. What can be done to the CUX so it better matches the engines new capabilities. RPi chip? Or ? | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 204 Registered: 04-2003 |
Eric Have some big valve heads too(43mm/37mm), but hesitant to try that on my RR. Best place to get that chip is from Mark Adams or RPI. Bad part is custom chip cost $600 last time I checked. Good part is Mark will reprogram it for $100. I am going to email you sometime in the next week. Or send me a message and we'll talk. Randall |
