| Author | Message | ||
     Lee R. Byrd (Mobile) Member Username: Mobile Post Number: 65 Registered: 07-2003 |
What winches are the TJM owners running in their bumpers. Any problems with the install? Are there any winches to avoid ( I know low mounts only for TJM.) How are the Mile Marker electrics? | ||
| Adrian Strata (Adrians) Member Username: Adrians Post Number: 49 Registered: 02-2003 |
Lee, I've had the MM8K electric on my 91RRC for over 2 years and never had a problem with it. Used it at least 10-15 times(long pulls, short, snatch block, uphill, downhill) and worked great every time. JohnC has it on his Rangie now untill I get a new bumper for my Diso. We used it about 4 times last week on a trail run and worked great. Adrian | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 762 Registered: 05-2003 |
Lee, I've got the SuperWinch X9 (with roller fairlead) and synethetic line. I like it and have not had any problems with it. No problems on install, the winch basket that TJM sells for mounting the winch to their bumpers mounts directly to the frame. Jamie | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 574 Registered: 11-2002 |
How much have you actually used the winch Jamie? I guess you are going to tell us how it stalls at 11.9 ? "Blow me" | ||
| Reid Walkenhorst (Runningmule) New Member Username: Runningmule Post Number: 25 Registered: 05-2003 |
2000 DII, TJM bumper, Warn XD9000, I have experienced no problems, although I have only used it about a dozen times in 6 months. Also using Hellroaring isolator. Biggest thing I've had to put back on the road is a UPS truck. Winch performs well, but after the UPS guy I ended up with some serious kinks in the line. I'm currently looking for a synthetic cable.••••• way the TJM/Warn combo works well so far. RPW | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 765 Registered: 05-2003 |
Kyle, I've used it about 15 times in mud. I'm gaining confidence using it, but it has yet to become 2nd nature. I really have to think about what I am doing and pay attention. Not using it on a "daily basis" sure doesn't help the learning process. Last week, I called someone from the forest b/c I couldn't remember if my truck should be in park or in neutral when I winched someone out. That was pretty embarrassing but I knew I could hurt someone if I bluffed my way through it and pretended I had all the answers. It took a long time and lots of moving around to get cellular reception. My winch has not stalled (yet), but I have been using a pulley block when winching to decrease the load because the mud stucks are pretty icky. I have never been around a winch that has stalled. I did ask Bill how I would know if mine was about to stall when he was teaching me. He said that it would make a very loud whining noise and that I would know that something was wrong. I listen close when I am winching, and have not heard a change in the noise. However, I've not winched in tough conditions like you have that require a long persistant winching. I have high hopes that when I do get into those difficult winching conditions that I will be in the company of you and others with all the big time experience. Winching in the mud is tough at first but then the load decreases pretty quickly. I'm not yet ready to climb out of the kindergarten sand box (mud box?) yet! I went with SuperWinch only because it is supposed two handle prolonged water submersion better than other winches. When we get stuck in the mud down here, 90% of the time we're also sitting in a significant depth of water. BTW, I really like the way you put your cases on your roofrack on the video  | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 579 Registered: 11-2002 |
So exactly why does the Superwinch handle water better ? Also , why the snatch block everytime ? It doesnt concern you that it has to be broken out every time to get the job done ? How bout the repeated stress on the cable/rope from wrapping that pulley block every time ? This has nothing to do with the question at hand however. I asked you what I asked you because every single time this question pops up , someone answers with how their winch has served them well. Whenever I ask these people the same question I asked you I find out that they have only used the thing a hand full of times. I recall a big heated winch debate once where good ole Ron brown chimed in about how his husky was the cats ass , and on and on and on it went. Come to find out , he had only used it a few times and it burned up shortly there after. Then Ron found out just how "Special" his superwinch was when he wanted to buy a replacement motor for it. Again , dont judge anything by a perfet enviroment and everything going right. Judge it by the worst and everything going wrong....Survivability and repairability........... "Blow me" | ||
| Lee R. Byrd (Mobile) Member Username: Mobile Post Number: 67 Registered: 07-2003 |
The reason I am asking is to find out if certain low-mount winches do not fit. I am seriously considering the MileMarker 12000# elec. or the warn HS9500. I have written TJM USA and have not had a response from them yet. Their website says the MM 10k# hyd will fit and the 12k# electric winch is "smaller." I am a little leary of the rover's weight being stuck in a mud hole vs a 9000# winch. On the other hand I don't want to mess up the bumper with a 12k# winch and a snatch block. The frame mount is a comfort. Another source of worry is the reasoning for Warn discontinuing the HS9500. I have seen, in person, several of the cheaper model Ramsey's fail. I have watched the video from MileMarker. I live in Mobile, Alabama and we have a lot of Gumbo Mud. The kind that sucks of your boots, socks, and then takes the hair off your legs. Most of the locals swear by Warn...same feelings from locals in Montana. | ||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2003 |
each to his own, of course, but pray tell why -- if you live in mud country -- you would not want a hydraulic winch? | ||
| Shawn McKenzie (Shawn) Member Username: Shawn Post Number: 184 Registered: 10-2002 |
I got the MileMarker video and they make a compelling case for not using electric, but is there a hydraulic winch for the D1 where you don't have to replace power steering hardware? | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 335 Registered: 02-2003 |
What's wrong with a the MM hydraulic? I'm running a 12.5 MM hydraulic on my D2 and love it. You'd need to change your PS pump on a D1 to get any line speed (GPM) or strenght (PSI) out of the hydraulic. As for a D2, you can use the stock pump, but it will be incredible slow because of the low gpm the PS pump pushes. It does 1500 psi, so you'll get the rated strength. I'm running mine off a ACE pump, so I have no issues. The debate will run or electric and needing the engine running for hydraulics. Having been on couple of winching Marathons, including a 2 day affair where we burned up my Warn, broke a main shaft on another Warn, and fried a Ramsey, we never had a had problem with the trucks running. I regulary serviced my Warn, and I wasn't impressed with it's construction. I would recommend servicing the things every 6 months if you live snow country... Getting back to your question on pulling capacity, get the biggest one you can, size does matter. The other advise I have is learn how to use the thing. I've been at a couple of events and seen some scary shit with operator stupidity... Frank | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 769 Registered: 05-2003 |
Good morning Mr Kyle So exactly why does the Superwinch handle water better? I'm clueless It doesnt concern you that it has to be broken out every time to get the job done? Well, no. Did you know I lose things all the time in the middle of while I'm using them?? When Bill was teaching me, he watched that for a few hours and had quite enough of it. He made this rule: Winch controller line spooled and attached to the rear of drivers seat when it is not hooked up to solenoid and wrapped under my windsheild wiper. Winch accessory bag on the floor behind drivers seat with EVERYTHING in it at all times - including tree strap, pulley block, 2 shackles, and gloves (usually snatch strap is in there too - but I just changed over to recovery rope after I left my strap in the sun too long and trashed it) Recovery rope is now on the floor in the same area. (btw, I used my kinetic recovery rope for the very first time yesterday to pull someone out of the mud - wow, I like it! It was super smooth and gentle! (spraying the mud and sand out of the rope late last night was about just as yucky as cleaning my winch line. Winch line is today's clean up job. I sure wish I had a pressure washer. The rule Bill made for me is that EVERYTHING stays together WITH the bag. When I need recovery gear - I am to take the entire bag and contents out and set it right in the middle of the trail where I am hooking up recovering equip. It doesn't go back in my truck until I'm done and all recovery equip is dismantled and stored back in bag. So far so good, since implementing his "rule for me", I haven't misplaced a thing. That being said, it is no problem to get out pulley block because it is already out with the other stuff. How bout the repeated stress on the cable/rope from wrapping that pulley block every time? Gosh, I don't know. Des it? I have only recovered another truck one time. I use my winch for self recovery. I wrap tree strap around tree, use shackle for attaching both ends of tree strap and pulley block. I put my winch hook right into the pulley block and winch my self out. I was told that SuperWinch parts are hard to come by - I hope I don't break mine. Judge it by the worst and everything going wrong.... When that day comes, I hope to be out with you big dogs, so you can be in charge | ||
| Adrian Strata (Adrians) Member Username: Adrians Post Number: 51 Registered: 02-2003 |
Lee, Check out www.nationaloffroad.com they have diagrams of the MM12K electric and the hydralic. They also have great prices. AdrianS 98Disco | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1359 Registered: 02-2002 |
Kyle - I'm confused. Whats the additional stress on using a pulley block? | ||
| Lee R. Byrd (Mobile) Member Username: Mobile Post Number: 68 Registered: 07-2003 |
I finally got an email response from TJM and they said the Disco II bumper can only handle a 9000# winch yet their website says it can handle a 10500# winch. As far as learning how to use it, I will. I have a basic knowledge of how-to and have read many articles on how-to. I would like to view that movie Jamie was talking about. Donald The reason I desired an electric winch rather than a hydraulic winch is b/c of the worst case scenario. If I flip, again, and survive I want to be able to use the winch to the best of my ability. I lived in Montana for 4 years. I have seen vehicles flip, some fatally, many times on black ice. I do not plan on staying in Mobile for more than 1-2 years. After that I want to move some place with snow and seasons/temps other than: "hot, hotter, the Devil came down to Bama, and... last August my dog exploded into flames it was so hot" | ||
| Eric N (Eric_n) New Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2004 |
"Gosh, I don't know. Des it? I have only recovered another truck one time. I use my winch for self recovery. I wrap tree strap around tree, use shackle for attaching both ends of tree strap and pulley block. I put my winch hook right into the pulley block and winch my self out." Just wondering Jamie, did you run the cable back to your truck through the pulley and then back to your truck and hooking it to your bumper? If not then why even use the pulley on that pull? Also, Frank is right about learning how to use your winch. Of course if you go to an event there will always be 10 to 20 people that will run in and tell you what you are doing wrong (without asking if you want their help or asking what you are getting set up to do) when they get to the scene and you are half way into it already. Lee, do you already have the TJM bumper? If not you could also consider other options that will allow you to run a bigger selection of winches. Like a Rovertym bumper for instance. If you already have the bumper then it looks like you are stuck using what will fit unless you want to re-work the bumper to fit your needs. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2890 Registered: 02-2002 |
My question: If MM is so pro-hydraulic, etc., why did they start selling electrics? -L | ||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Senior Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 302 Registered: 02-2002 |
Leslie, the simple reason is that there is a market for electric winches. Selling electric winches goes against their advertising pitch for hydraulic winches, but they saw an opportunity to make some $ by selling electric winches. | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 513 Registered: 02-2002 |
and i bet you the MM electric ones are shit, and the buyer of that electric will think, "shit, i should have gone hydraulic" and more money for MM. Ho Chung | ||
| Lee R. Byrd (Mobile) Member Username: Mobile Post Number: 69 Registered: 07-2003 |
Eric I already have the bumper on order (long story). I use my vehicle as a daily driver and liked the functionality and look of the TJM. I looked at the R-Tym, $guard, ARB, etc. The $guard is too much money. I did not like the ARB for my own reasons. R-tym's appearance was less than stellar, personal opinion, and the approach angles were not going to be needed for the type of wheeling I do. If I were close to rocks I might have chosen the R-tym. The TJM suited my needs and wheeling style. I mostly drive easy trails and just enjoy using the vehicle to get me "away." In the future if my wheeling tastes progress to more hardcore things I would consider changing my bumper out. By the time I reached that phase I would have invested money in so many other mods the price paid for exchanging bumpers would be irrelevant. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 582 Registered: 11-2002 |
Running the cable around any small pulley does indeed shorten its life. You are bending it putting stres on the long side thats going around... WHo knows what the numbers are but its surely worse then a stright on pull... "Blow me" | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 825 Registered: 02-2003 |
Not if I read Jamie's quote correctly:
Had she wrapped the cable around the block and attached the hook back at the vehicle, I would agree that there would be additional stress on the cable. On the other hand, if she does a straight pull and just uses the pulley block as something to attach the hook to in the way she described, there will not be additional stress on the cable. Why any sane person would use a pulley block in this matter, since it completely defies the purpose of the pulleyblock, is beyond my comprehension, though. - Axel | ||
| Lee R. Byrd (Mobile) Member Username: Mobile Post Number: 72 Registered: 07-2003 |
Jamie, does your winch look like this one?  | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1364 Registered: 02-2002 |
Um, you guys pulling plonkers or what? | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 194 Registered: 05-2003 |
The cable around the pulley block stress reminds me of the sun rays degrading straps thread. Both sound like material for junkscience.com. Gimme a break! That's EXACTLY what winch cables are designed for. The size of snatch blocks is big enough not to kink the cable, and steel cable is meant to strech enough to make up for the difference between the outside and inside of the cable. That's why its made up of many strands, so that each may strech as needed, be flexible, yet strong. If used within its rated capacity, abrasion (like rubbing against rocks under load) or corrosion is what will shorten the life of the cable. On a long day of winching, using a snatch block is putting 1/2 the stress on a winch than a straight pull. Seems to me thats a sensible way to treat your winch. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 585 Registered: 11-2002 |
Read what I said again Jamie... And then you have at it.... I have never had to change a winch cable from failure............ "Blow me" | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1515 Registered: 02-2003 |
because it seems sensible is another clue that you are wrong. the cable going around the the pully is putting the cable under strain. it will over time weaken the cable and reduce it's usefull life. if you cant produce a mental picture of how this will add stress to the cable then you are lost cause. The UV sun rays do degrade the strap you idiot. it will take a while but i have seen plenyy of climbing slings turn to all but dust just from being out in the sun and weather. true these things wont ruin the products with an occasional use, but it all adds up. p.s. just get a good winch and you dont have to fucking wrry about the strain you are putting on it. it's like talking to the wall year after year. | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 195 Registered: 05-2003 |
Rob, The idiot comment is uncalled for. However, it certainly gives me an idea of the kind of person you are. Thanks for that look into your character. I will not waste my time discussing this with you further. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1366 Registered: 02-2002 |
Well, the wheel on the black rat pulley is bigger than the winch drum on my winch, so I'm personally not worried about it. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 586 Registered: 11-2002 |
Thanks for not wasting your time Jaime... And Dean , jesus does anyone fucking read? "Blow me" | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1517 Registered: 02-2003 |
that's right it does. i am a truthful person who calls it as i see it. rd | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1367 Registered: 02-2002 |
Whats there to read? The snatch blocks I've seen have all had about the same diameter - about 4 inches. I ain't seen no shitty little ones to worry about. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 587 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jesus ok , take english , then we will have this again... "Blow me" | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 196 Registered: 05-2003 |
Kyle, I won't waste my time discussing anything with someone who insults me. I don't mind heated discussions, but I don't like being insulted over the internet. I'd prefer someone say that to my face. I missed the 'small' pulley part. OK, I guess depending on how small 'small' is, you have a point. But every decent snatch block I've seen is around 5 inches. That's the size of my ARB block, which is bigger that the diameter of the winch drum. I think the real wear and degradation of the cable is from abrasion, not only from rocks, but more often from rubbing against itself while winding under load. My point is that the wear you spoke about is minute, and in a lab setting might be of consequence, but in practice, there are other factors that have a way greater impact on a cable's life than the snatch block. | ||
| Reed Cotton (Reedcotton) Senior Member Username: Reedcotton Post Number: 310 Registered: 01-2003 |
Try this, http:/www.winchtest.com/xd9000i/11.html This is from that Milemarker "independent" laboratory study on winch failure. I have not actually read the "Wire Rope Users Manual" to confirm the calculations, but they seem reasonable here. The test was using this data to explain the wire rope failure at the drum. reading that test gave me pause to think more about plasma rope in the near future. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1369 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ok so now I'm taking English lessons from a fucking hippy redneck? Jeez.... must be bumper envy still. Serves you right for getting the shitty little 1" CB snatch block! | ||
| Jamil Abbasy (Jamooche) Senior Member Username: Jamooche Post Number: 288 Registered: 05-2003 |
This is what a good snatching looks like... http://www.pbase.com/image/25277564 | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 805 Registered: 03-2003 |
LOL. | ||
| Bill Mallin (Billmallin) Member Username: Billmallin Post Number: 82 Registered: 09-2003 |
hahahahahaha | ||
| Matt Milbrandt (95discovery) Dweb Lounge Member Username: 95discovery Post Number: 184 Registered: 02-2002 |
Don't worry Jamil, I think you just settled the arugument.  Matt | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 516 Registered: 02-2002 |
winching under the influence perhaps? Ho Chung | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 776 Registered: 05-2003 |
I do clip my hook directly to the pulley block. My hook has a spring loaded mouse clip style clasp on it to stay put. I can't run the line back to my truck, I don't have frame mounted recovery points and my bumper isn't strong enough to run the hook and line back to it. So basically I'm doing a straight line self winch directly to a tree. Bill also taught me how to rig up more stuff (like an additional pulley block, using my synthetic winch line 50 ft extension, shackles, recovery strap, recovery rope, etc) if it is needed when a straight pull self recovery won't work. I haven't had to go to any extremes (yet) to do angled self recovery with winch, but I am very confident that I will be able to do this successfully when I need to. The basis of my training with Bill was based entirely on recovering myself when no one else is around - so that I will have the freedom to safely trail by myself. We spent an entire day on "hypothetical" recovery scenarios and how I would recover myself from each scenario. Lee, my winch does not look like that one. I think that is the one that has the solenoid and the winch all together. | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 777 Registered: 05-2003 |
I was wrong. Kyles right. I went looking in my pics to make sure. Pulley block is NOT used in strait line pull. Tree strap around tree, both ends secured by shackle, then winch hook goes into shackle for winching. Pulley was used on a side tree for an angled recovery. Sorry about that. Geez, I need flash cards! | ||
| Michael Noe (Noee) Senior Member Username: Noee Post Number: 844 Registered: 03-2002 |
....back on topic...
Lee, Not sure about MM on the TJM, but if your quote above is accurate, why even get a bumper now, and for that matter, the winch too. Why not wait until you have a better feel for the level of wheeling you'll be doing and with whom and make the decision then? | ||
| Kai Dussling (Kai) Member Username: Kai Post Number: 104 Registered: 06-2002 |
Someone on this board needs to do less posting and more reading......... | ||
| Lee R. Byrd (Mobile) Member Username: Mobile Post Number: 73 Registered: 07-2003 |
Noee I am getting the bumper b/c someone "restyled" my OEM one with an F-150. I am getting the winch for a worst case scenario like the one I listed in a previous post. My version of getting "away" usually takes me down trails with 2-3 feet of mud and water. Some trails cross lake beds where the water level has dropped. In spots if your rig is heavier than a Sami you will sink to the body. I have climbed out the window of my Jeep before. Once I have the right gear on my Rover I will tackle more difficult obstacles. I do not feel like damaging my vehicle just to say I overcame an obstacle. Without the proper protection this would likely happen. My Rover is a Daily Driver. I have not yet graduated from College, 6-hours remaining, and can't treat it like a trail-only machine. If my vehicle breaks on the trail I have to have it fixed immediately. I do not want to spend "fix it now I need the rig tomorrow" money. If, prior to going wheeling, more people built there rig to suit the wheeling they want to do, or wheel their rig for what it is built to do, those people with more experience would not have to winch everybody else out. I do not push my rigs beyond their limits. No bumper and winch means I will avoid getting stuck and or damaged as best I can. With a winch and bumper I can become more self-reliant and less likely to end up stranded. |
