| Author | Message | ||
     Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 166 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi, Just a quick question: Assuming that I'm on slippery, snowy or icy roads, what is the maximum speed when in Diff Lock High. Let's assume for the moment that the speed in question is a safe speed under the circumstances. Thanks in advance for your help. Victor | ||
| Brian Baker (Doubleb) Member Username: Doubleb Post Number: 44 Registered: 02-2002 |
If it is a safe speed under those conditions then you wouldn't have to worry about the limit | ||
| Brian O'Connor (Hooky) Member Username: Hooky Post Number: 68 Registered: 09-2003 |
Victor, yep, if you are in low traction conditons where it would be okay to run your rig that way let your huevous be your guide! | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 167 Registered: 10-2003 |
Brian(s) That sounds sensible to me, but thought I'd ask anyway. Victor | ||
| Brian Baker (Doubleb) Member Username: Doubleb Post Number: 45 Registered: 02-2002 |
I believe the owners manual said something like 55mph but I've done 75mph with no problem. It was snowing and there was about three inches on the highway and some toyota pickup was tailgating my ass and wouldn't go around me when I slowed. So I wanted to see how far he was willing to take it. he quit and backed off around 70mph when his back end got alittle loose. Don't attempt this it was done by a semi-professional ( stupid bastard) on a rural highway in the middle of no where (i.e. no police) | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 168 Registered: 10-2003 |
Brian, In weather like that the cops are usually busy picking up the pieces of some guy in the ditch, so speed traps are usually not something I worry about. I did check out the owners manual, but all I found was mention that excessive tire wear and stress on the transmission could result. My concern was related to the situation where the road conditions change from slick and slippery to something less challenging. Victor | ||
| Brian Baker (Doubleb) Member Username: Doubleb Post Number: 49 Registered: 02-2002 |
If the road conditions are changing from slippery to not slippery it is hard on the t-r-a-n-s-f-e-r case to have it in locked. It can't slip to compensate for different front and rear drive shaft speeds. Unlocked and slower speeds would be a better options in that situation. | ||
| David Seger (Croakus) Member Username: Croakus Post Number: 81 Registered: 06-2003 |
I did a lot of research regarding this before installing a D1 shifter in mine. It's my understanding that there is no maximum speed. The really important point is to only engage it on a slippery surface. | ||
| Brian O'Connor (Hooky) Member Username: Hooky Post Number: 74 Registered: 09-2003 |
Correct! BB hit the nail on the head. As long as you have limited traction availible (aka wheel slippage, or wheel slippage is possible, and probable) your t/c will be happy. The slippage/different wheel speeds will be "worked out" at the wheel. You do not want those forces to be "worked out" in your t/c, excessive wear leads to all kinds of problems down the line and can result directly in a breakdown if you are really doing it right :-) When in doubt shift it out. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1371 Registered: 02-2002 |
Um, on icy roads, you don't want ANY lockers engaged! And why are you even asking this question? | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 562 Registered: 11-2002 |
not true Dean...the CDL helps alot on icy roads at highway speeds. i dont care what the owners manual says I have used mine both ways on ice covered roads hundreds of times and no doubt locking the CDL helps. axle lockers are a very different story,you want the tires to turn different speeds side to side to prevent skids in light turns. Thom | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 652 Registered: 02-2003 |
Whats the longest someone has kept thier diff lock engaged? Is it a good idea to unlock it even when conditions are slippery. i think i have read here before about an individual riden around in the snow with the center locked and had trouble unlocking??? | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1372 Registered: 02-2002 |
thom - don't you find that when turning it will make you slide more? Phillip - I keep my diff locked all day in the pine barrens. For the most part it reduces the ETC a fair bit, which is a good thing. | ||
| Brian Baker (Doubleb) Member Username: Doubleb Post Number: 50 Registered: 02-2002 |
We get a fair amount of ice in Eastern Washington and I've driven 300 miles with the differential locked. Dean I fine the vehicles turning charateristics to be more consistant and predicable with the differential locked in slippery situations. | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 170 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dean, The reason I was asking is that over the past week here in Southern Ontario we have been getting hit with some pretty nasty storms. The high winds and mix of freezing and thawing and re-freezing have created some very convoluted road conditions. Last winter, my first with the Disco, I didn't make use of the CDL at all, so I was wondering how much of a difference it would make. As a result, I gave it a try while driving home from work last night. I was driving through the city, up and down icy hills, and was blown away what a difference it made. The speed was low (20-40 kph top speed) so I wasn't concerned. Later I had to drive a couple of hundred km north last night, were the storm was much less severe, but I would be driving on snow covered freeways with strong cross-winds and ice patches. Traction varied between tons and none. These mixed stretches were what was concerning me. Mostly strait driving at between 40 and 80kph (25-50mph), with the occasional icy stretch interrupted by icy ramps. Does this clarify? Victor | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1161 Registered: 04-2003 |
I drive for miles & miles at relatively high speeds (~50 mph) on graded desert dirt roads. Having the center locked most definitey makes a difference in handling. Makes it a little easier on the rear tires, too. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1373 Registered: 02-2002 |
Victor I was just wondering why you wanted to drive at 50mph on ice, CDL or no. Its clearer now  | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 457 Registered: 01-2003 |
I am also confused about the max speed thing, because on the '04s with CDL, they state the maximum speed is 30mph. I was wondering if this is just a liability thing, if something changed, or if we should have been adhering to this all along. | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 171 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dean, I'm not driving on ice, per se. I'm driving on roads would usually be described as "Centre Bare with icy patches" in strong (30+mph) cross winds with blowing snow. When driving in conditions such as these one can drive through stretches of clean road, snow covered and/or icy. This is especially true when driving over bridges where the wind is going over and under the bridge. Driving in these conditions is nothing. I'm an old lady compared to some of the morons passing me at 70mph. Contrary to popular belief it isn't 4x4s doing that speed. Its chrysler mini vans and other front wheel drive cars. Victor | ||
| Brian Baker (Doubleb) Member Username: Doubleb Post Number: 54 Registered: 02-2002 |
I've driven across the Macinaw Bridge in Michigan with high wind 30+mph it was pants crapp'in time in my 72 Gran Torino 4dr. It felt like the car was being picked up a couple of times. The bridge is made with metal grate decking and wind comes up from beneath. Alyssa, Is that 30mph in High lock or low | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 459 Registered: 01-2003 |
High lock, I assume, since reaching 30 mph in low is tough. | ||
| Brian Baker (Doubleb) Member Username: Doubleb Post Number: 58 Registered: 02-2002 |
I've had my d1 at 35mph in low lock. | ||
| FRANK (Frankyonkersny) New Member Username: Frankyonkersny Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 |
I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THIS SUBJECT. MINE IS ALWAYS ON HIGH IF I SWITCHIT TO N THEN THE TRUCK DOES NOT MOVE. AM I DOING SOMETHING WRONG? PLEASE HELP! | ||
| FRANK (Frankyonkersny) New Member Username: Frankyonkersny Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2004 |
I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THIS SUBJECT. MINE "95 DISCO V8I" IS ALWAYS ON HIGH IF I SWITCH IT TO N THEN THE TRUCK DOES NOT MOVE. AM I DOING SOMETHING WRONG? PLEASE HELP! WHILE STOPED FIRST I SHIFT THE TRAN TO N THEN SHIFT THE OTHER SHIFTER INTO N AND TRY AND MOVE AFTER SHIFTING THE TRAN BACK TO DRIVE AND NOTHING SHOULD IT ALWAYS BE ON "H" ???? I DON'T KNOW... IT HAS H N L THANX FRANK... | ||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Senior Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 268 Registered: 06-2003 |
H = high N = neutral L = Low If your in N, your t-case is in neurtrral and your not getting any power to the wheels. Yo need to be in High or low. D1' should have high locked, high unlocked, low locked, or low unlocked. you need ot be inone of them. | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 172 Registered: 10-2003 |
FRANK, In the discovery there is (or should be) also the ability to move the H-N-L lever to the side which puts the centre differential into lock. The Centre Differential Lock (CDL) splits the drive evenly between the front and rear axle. If you look at the top of the lever there is a diagram that has two vertical shift paths. On the left is the CDL position. Many trucks can loose the ability to move to the side, so it feels like it will only do H-N-L like a normal transfer case. Mine was siezed like that when I got my Disco. The previous owner probably never took it out of 4 high so it stopped working. You will know when you're in Diff Lock when the light illuminates on the right side of the speedo. BTW, please stop "shouting"(writing in capital letters). It becomes annoying to read, and is bad etiquette. Thanks Victor | ||
| FRANK (Frankyonkersny) New Member Username: Frankyonkersny Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2004 |
LostinBoston/Vabiro, Thank you very much for the input. But, still a little confused on the matter. I guess I should always be on high and not on locked or differential? If I understood right, the CDL should be on locked for slippery conditions? Sorry, about the capital letters. I didn't notice... Hope to hear back from you soon. (anyone) Thanks, Frank | ||
| Eugene (Eugene) Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 166 Registered: 02-2003 |
Frank, If you're on-road (and there isn't snow/ice on the ground), keep the transfer case in (H)igh. CDL should only be engaged when you are in poor traction situations. (Usually this means off-road.) There is a good description of the D1 transfer case here: http://www.discoweb.org/discovery/basics.htm -Eugene | ||
| FRANK (Frankyonkersny) New Member Username: Frankyonkersny Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2004 |
THANX EUGENE, I got the picture now! Thanx 4 the link. -Frank | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 175 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi all, A couple of people mentioned the folly of using lockers in the snow and ice. Is this to say that those of us that live in regions with winter weather should not have Detroit Lockers or use air, electric, or vacume locker that can be switched off? Alternatively, would TrueTracs front and back be a better choice than using a Detroit on the back? Victor | ||
| Brian O'Connor (Hooky) Member Username: Hooky Post Number: 82 Registered: 09-2003 |
Victor, being locked up is great, unless you want to turn. Ideally I think you put an air locker F&R then you lock up only when you need to. Otherwise you put whatever your favorite limited slip, or locking diff in the rear, and let the front be. If you live in an area where ice and snow are the norm, having a limited slip up front, especially on a full time four wheel driver like our Rovers, you are going to have a hard time making tight turns. Also when the pavement is dry, you will be putting a lot of stress on all the drive components. Having a strong mechanical locker/limited slip in the rear can cause some havoc turning on ice as well. Nothing creates more entertainment than a hopped up 4x4 spinning out of control on glare ice! (flash backs of my FJ40) If you have a traditional 4x4, where you need to lock the front axels at the hubs, you have more flexibility with what you can put up front in the pumpkin, as none of the drive stuff is engaged until you put it into 4WD, and lock the hubs - Most old pickups, FJ40s, Jeeps etc. But you are 2WD until you crawl out and turn the knobs. Some folks will leave the hubs locked, and disengage at the t/c, if you have a strong mechanical locker/limited slip living in there this can still liven up a turn on glare ice. On the Disco with the CDL locked you may experience front end "pushing" during tight turns, where traction doesn’t exists. The front diff will not be able to allow each wheel to spin at a different rate, which will cause your turn (front wheels) to not make curved tracks, but diagonal parallel tracks. Your truck may make some unpleasant sounds, and even rock a little. Talk about premature wear. With any kind of mechanical locker/limited slip up front these problems will be exaggerated further as we cannot disengage at the hub or at the t/c. Having open diffs aren't a bad thing, in fact for normal driving they are what you want. Unless you are really into off-roading, I would say buy a winch/recovery gear and learn how to use it well, before getting lockers involved. By that I mean with a “locked up” rig you can really get yourself in a stuck that no “boing strap” or puny come-along, is going to get you out of – don’t care how much sweating, cussing, crying or beer drinking you do – you’ll have to get someone with a spool to drag you where you need to be. Asking what diff “locker” is best, is like asking the infamous “what brand fuel is best” question that is so flipping popular – you’ll get 400 different answers, all with little to no value for your application or budget. My tip would be to check out each brand/type, look at the pluses and minus of each, trust me they all have them – and weigh out what is going to work out best for what you expect to need, and can afford. If I don’t transfer to Belgium this coming fall forcing me to sell my baby (or find a long term storage solution). I plan to put ARBs F&R. I’ve used Auburns, & other clutch pack limited slips, and have had friends that have used Detroit’s, and a couple of the other spring&gear “clacker” type lockers. Hope this is helpful… | ||
| Brian O'Connor (Hooky) Member Username: Hooky Post Number: 83 Registered: 09-2003 |
I guess that tea I just finished wasn't decaffeinated... | ||
| Victor (Vabiro) Member Username: Vabiro Post Number: 176 Registered: 10-2003 |
Brian, Thanks for your illuminating response. Regarding my question about TrueTrac vs. Detroit vs. Air was more about the functionality of each. The TrueTrac seems to be popular for the front-end diff because it allows significantly more side-to-side differential in tire rotation, but retains some of the benefits of the Detroit-style Limited Slip without the snow plowing effect or understeer that you were mentioning. Really, I'm not going to be rushing out to purchase a set of lockers. As you can tell from my original question on the CDL High, I'm fairly new to Land Rovers and off roading. More than anything I am curious how dangerous it is to make use of some of these LSD on a daily driver in the ice and snow. I'm getting the impression that the ideal is a set of switchable (air, electric, or vacume) diffs that are either on or off. It seems to allow the best of both worlds: Not hard on the drivetrain on pavement, you can turn it off when the optimal, and turn it on only when needed. In many ways, a set of air lockers seem to be the best choice for someone that wheels on the weekend and drives to work during the week. Victor | ||
| Brian O'Connor (Hooky) Member Username: Hooky Post Number: 86 Registered: 09-2003 |
Victor again a lot of what you'll get here is opion, informed opinion - but not always pure unadulterated info. With that preface - If I were to put anything up front itwould be an ARB. They have a great reputation, and they are built better than weekend warrior strong. With the rearend there are a lot of options, but I'm still thinking at this point I'd toss an ARB in back too. Not a cheap solution, but it gives the driver what you want when you want as long as you want - I like that. I'm used to locked up FJ40s and that has probably tainted my view. Super short wheel bases, ridiculous lifts, and daily driving aren't really a good mix. I tipped the Cruiser over a few times on the trail, but when I did it on the ice into a ditch, because there wasn't enough traction availible to get the rear end to allow a split in wheel speed, I got to thinking having the added control would have been really cool! Seeing the motor oil drain out through my carburator wasn't. I'm not sure of the wheel base difference from the FJ40 to the Disco, but I'm pretty confident the Disco has a longer wheel base - which helps on road handling a lot... But not Ford 350 super crew long, so of road manuverabilty is pretty good. Hope I'm on target tonight :-) Well it's time to workout - Being new is okay, asking q's is fine too - that's what this place is for. I surfed these pages for ages before I began to contribute... I've been into 4WDs for about 12 years now, and have had a full sized 76 Jimmy w/ many mods and abused badly, a 89 S-10 (what a piece of trash), a 76 FJ40 much love when to that one - and $$,a 94 4Runner, and now my Disco which I've had since 97. You gotta start somewhere - may as well be here. |
