| Author | Message | |||
     Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 83 Registered: 11-2003 |
> Overnight is obviously overkill, but a new steel cable does need to be respooled under load prior to being used. This is indeed to tighten up the cable. > > This is only necesary for a steel cable, though. You don't have to do it with a synthetic rope. Axel, I suspect Dean would disagree. I recall on first use his Amsteel was loose enough that it was binding down into the lower winds and jamming. A respool under tension did the trick nicely. Whenever I get my hydraulics finished (next week probably) I intend also to do this with my MP line. Now for the burning question... I never heard much comment on the question of synthetic winch line getting wet and frozen up and subsequent issues for strength both during and after this condition. I am assuming that if allowed to thaw and dry it is no big deal. However what makes me nervous is if one had to use it in the frozen state, how much damage one might do to the future integrity of the cable and how much the strength would be compromised during that pull. | |||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 247 Registered: 09-2002 |
Donald, Interesting question, something I was concerned about and didn't follow-up on till I saw your post this am. I've got some iquiries in to folks who make the synthetic rope for maritime applications regarding the effect of freezing on the lines-my assumption is that industry is very familiar with the performance of the ropes in that kind of environment so hopefully we'll get some good input, I'll post back when I find something out. r- Ray | |||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 248 Registered: 09-2002 |
That should be 'inquiries', I'm suffering from early am illiteracy... | |||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 858 Registered: 02-2003 |
Quite possible. You are quoting me out of context. You need to see that post as part of the entire thread it was taken from. - Axel | |||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1385 Registered: 02-2002 |
Not sure how my name came up... But anyway, one of our synthetics sheared off the bolt holding it onto the drum, rendering the winch useless for the rest of the trip. I think the rope slips much easier than the steel on the drum when it becomes loose, but I could be wrong. Another point, on the 9.5ti the inner (orange) heat guard melted, but the rope itself looked fine. The (master pull) heat guard is nothing more that a thin orange plastic cover, hardly what I would call a heat guard. Personally if I had a smoker I would wrap the inner layer in a glass fiber or ceramic cloth, rather than plastic. But I dunno where you can get that material from other than making it yourself from sheets. I doubt you will have this problem with the hydraulc Donald. And as for winding it on under tension, I rarely do that, its just too laborious when you use the winch a dozen times in a day. Occasionally it will get stuck and you'll have to pull it out hard, but the line holds up well, nothing like the steel. | |||
| J. Michael McCaig (Lrover) New Member Username: Lrover Post Number: 30 Registered: 01-2003 |
I've had a conversation with Emil at MasterPull and was told that their rope was originally designed for fishing fleets in the North Atlantic. It is not affected by freezing and thawing. I cover my winch in bad weather when I can 'cause it's easier to unspool if it isn't a lump of ice but even when it gets wet and then freezes I haven't had any real problems. | |||
| J. Michael McCaig (Lrover) New Member Username: Lrover Post Number: 31 Registered: 01-2003 |
Attach your synthetic line to the drum with a double clovehitch and you won't have any more slippage problems. Only use the bolt to hold down the loose end. | |||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1386 Registered: 02-2002 |
J. Michael McCaig can you show us? With detailed pics and instructions  Could be useful if the bolts shears again! | |||
| J. Michael McCaig (Lrover) New Member Username: Lrover Post Number: 32 Registered: 01-2003 |
Tie the clove hitch close to the side of the drum with the loose end tie down and the other end should lay against the drum in the spooling direction. When winching leave a few wraps on the drum and you won't have a problem
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| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 250 Registered: 09-2002 |
With regard to the effects of freezing weather/water on the synthetic ropes, here is the verbatim response to my inquiry this am: "Ray, We sell a considerable amount of rope for use on vehicle winches. The Plasma (HMPE) ropes get stronger as the temperature drops. I don't know where the floor for this property is but it is well below anything a vehicle will see. The fiber does not absorb moisture and therefore is not affected by water or ice as far as the strength of the rope. I have never heard of a rope being damaged by ice. The material is used in ballistic applications (armor and bullet proof vests, etc.) and is very resistant to cutting and abrasion. We sell these ropes around the world including mooring lines that are used on USCG vessels in Antarctica. I hope this answers your questions. Please feel free to contact me if I can help further. Thanks, Dick" Given the level of knowledge and detail, coupled with the general knowledge we all have that synthetics were first really used by the maritime industry for just such applications as he mentions, I am prone to go with his assessment. The gentlemen in question is affiliated with: http://www.cortlandcable.com/psrope/default.asp Which happened to be the first place I checked when I typed in "synthetic rope" in google this am, and he got back to me at what appears to be first thing in the am for West Coasters, FWIW. r- Ray | |||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 349 Registered: 02-2003 |
I spliced the end of my syn onto the drum. That way, if you un-reel the entire length, it doesn't come off. Dean, you could have tied the line back onto the drum, reeled it over it's self and not spooled past that point to at least have a working winch. You also brought up a good point, Warn uses thier drums and steel cable to dissapate heat from the winch motor. You will melt your syn line after repeated uses if you don't let it cool. Also, at the end of the trip, you'll want to spool the syn off, clean it and pack the line under pressure... Frank | |||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 84 Registered: 11-2003 |
Sorry, Axel -- my sarcasm detector was obviously set at a high threshold, I thought you were being serious. Not that anything else in that thread was, but what the heck... Love the clove hitch idea, thanks J. Michael. I saw in a prior thread where someone suggested painting some abrasive compound on the drum, but I don't like that as an idea unless all else fails. The hitch I will be doing from day one, however. And I am ever so happy that these ropes were developed in maritime. Thanks Ray for soliciting that response. Good info on the http://www.thecortlandcompanies.com/psrope/rope_care.asp page also -- describes the performance of the polythene filaments when exposed to gasoline and hydraulic fluids as being "excellent". | |||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 795 Registered: 05-2003 |
  These 2 pics illustrate what I ABSOLUTLEY TOTALLY COMPLETELY HATE about my synthetic line. The covering (shroud) on my line is almost impossible to use. I kid you not, I have to stick pliers in thru the roller fairlead to get the covering to start to come out when I unspool the winch line. I found the thinest pliers I could for doing this and since they are small, they take several tugs to get the covering to start coming out. I just have too wedge the pliers through the fairlead, try to blindly grab onto the cover, and pull as hard as I can. The covering usually slips out of the tiny pliers, so I have to start over. Respooling the line is a blooming nightmare. It takes up to 10 times of spooling in the line then letting it back out and trying again to get the winch to begin to take in the shroud covering along with the line. It won't fit unless in there unless I can get it to catch and spool up with the line at least 4 feet before the hook. The fault is not in my skills, Bill B had the same trouble with it when I was training with him. I posted a question on DiscoWeb a few months ago inquiring how anyone else had found to get around this problem. No reponses. At least a month ago I wrote to the person who sold me the line and said that I felt that this was a safety issue. I was told that when he made my line, he was out of the single sleeve coverings so he used a double sleeve covering. He said he would put a single one in the mail to me, but it would take removing the line from my winch to put on the single. I don't know how I am going to manage that feat, but I can't even seem to get over the obstacle of acquiring a single sleeve shroud covering. So far, I haven't received anything. As a temporary fix, I ordered the heavy duty PMI winch line cover from Expedition Exchange, but it has not solved this problem. Still glad I purchased the PMI, because it will come in very useful when I have to winch on really rough spots. I'm just so frustrated with the covering that I can't even tell you how strongly I hate it. I try to remember to pull it out before I hit the trail in case I need it. I'd hate to be stuck in a bad place and then have to try to get that blasted cover free. I've dropped the pliers in the water trying to to just that, and thankfully I was able to fish around in the water until I found them. Other than that, I like the synthetic line. I do respool my line under pressure. My arms get tired, so I usually stop and rest a few times. One of the things I like about the line is that it is UV stable for when I get home and have to spray the mud out of it - so I can safely leave it to dry in the sun. One of the things Bill did for me was to let out my line to the "max out" point and we wrapped neon pink cloth duck tape around it one time. I can see that from a distance when I am letting the line out, so I know when to stop spooling. I did purchase an aluminum hawse for my winch from Rockstomper, but I have not installed it. I probably won't - only because I feel like I have less room for error using the fairlead when spooling the cable in. If anyone reading this thread has found a solution for this problem, PLEASE post it. I can't tell you how grateful I will feel to solve this problem. Jamie | |||
| Greg Bright (Gregd2) Member Username: Gregd2 Post Number: 129 Registered: 06-2002 |
Jamie, Your last post is exactly why I don't play golf with my wife. | |||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 352 Registered: 02-2003 |
Jamie, couple of things: The easy way to pack the line under pressure is to use the weight of the truck. Pull the line all the way, lash it up and pull the truck in neutral. You can't apply enough tension with your hands to pack it tight. unles your names "Popeye" and eat lots' of spinach... The cover really isn't needed. I've been running syn line for years and never needed to cover the end. I would keep a eye on the rope at the drum. Make sure it not starting to melt. Get rid of the roller and install the hawse. Your asking for trouble because you will pinch in the rollers and damage the line. It's only a matter of use and you will do it, espescially on even the slightest of off center pulls. Donald, A splice at the drum is much stronger, and depending on the rope, it's easy to do. What are using to drive the hydraulics? I'm running a 12.5k MM off a ACE pump. No issues... Frank | |||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2003 |
> I did purchase an aluminum hawse for my winch from Rockstomper, but I have not installed it. I probably won't - only because I feel like I have less room for error using the fairlead when spooling the cable in. Huh? Less room for error, how? Error, as in error, snag, fail? Put it on. No, really. And call me crazy, but if you're having problems getting it out then why stick it all the way back in again afterwards? | |||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1387 Registered: 02-2002 |
Technically, you cannot spool a line in under pressure. Rather, tension. That is, unless there are 26 people watching you do it for the first time | |||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 356 Registered: 02-2003 |
your right Dean...tension, pressure, naked, what ever... | |||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 796 Registered: 05-2003 |
Thanks for elaborating so that I could attempt to understand the reasoning behind Greg's post. There is not a single thing in my area that I can legally use to lash my truck to while I spool in the winch line. Trust me, I tried. For that very reason, I was taught a way that I am able to get it at least packed somewhat tight by using leverage, my body weight and my hands. I can manage to get my line packed tight enough this way. I may not be as strong as the rest of you, but I am able to do this when I stop and rest a few times in the process. I agree it's not as good as if I could winch myself up to something, but it is the best solution we could find. Room for error: I feel that there is less room for (my) human error by my accidentally sticking my hands into the winch. You don't have to agree with that - it is just how I feel right now. I can't count on anyone being in the vicinity when I need to winch myself out and at the moment this is how I feel the most comfortable. This may change as I gain experience which is the reason that I did not return the hawse I purchased. As far as the off center pulls are concerned, and the line respooling unevenly, I have been taught to stop every 10 feet, manually release those 10 feet that I just spooled in, and use my body weight, to spool it on evenly, then return to self winching the next feet - repeating that procedure until I am winched out and my line is spooled in evenly without damage. So far, I've been able to use pulley blocks and tree straps when I can to keep a straight line when winching myself out. If I do not stick the covering way back in afterwards, it will not fit. Leaving it bunched up outside the winch does not take up enough slack to hold my winch hook in place. I just may end up cutting the shroud off, but I would prefer not to do that unless it is absolutely necessary. I don't use it to cover the end. I use it to protect the line when I am winching myself out on rough surfaces. It has come in very handy when I have been winching myself out of water because I have been able to slide it to whatever portion of the synthetic line that would take a beating from rough terrain on the bank where I have pulled myself out of. I guess the best solution is probably for me to try again to obtain the single sleeve covering that the line should have come with. I just thought I'd try again to find out if anyone else was experiencing this problem while this thread is going about synthetic line. Now I wish I had never asked the question. | |||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1389 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jamie if that's a double layer shroud, can you not cut it apart and take one of them off? Dean ps Brevity is virtue sometimes |
Clove hitch