| Author | Message | |||
     Adam Elliott (Miatman) New Member Username: Miatman Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2004 |
My roommate just bought a 2000 jeep wrangler, i just bought a 96 discovery. I have not been able to take mine off road yet, but we were wondering what makes the disco more capable off road than the wrangler or vice versa. What does a stock disco offer that a jeep doesnt as far as ability? aaaaaaand begin! -adam | |||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1311 Registered: 09-2002 |
room for five with a lot of gear. longer trailing arms. | |||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 666 Registered: 02-2003 |
lower low range. | |||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 667 Registered: 02-2003 |
cool post 666 well now 667 but yeah anyways | |||
| Adam Elliott (Miatman) New Member Username: Miatman Post Number: 13 Registered: 01-2004 |
how does the full time 4x4 operate when off road? is it basically rear wheel only until it slips? When off road, is it better to lock diff? Im a super noob at this, but im trying to lean as fast as possible =) | |||
| Adam Elliott (Miatman) New Member Username: Miatman Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2004 |
er, learn that is | |||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1213 Registered: 04-2003 |
size - can be pro or con, depends on the situation...LOL, today in traffic a Wrangler in front of me had his tailgate glass open with his golf bag hanging out. try driving cross-country in the little Wrangler to go offroading, then try it in the Disco | |||
| gil stevens (Gil) Senior Member Username: Gil Post Number: 388 Registered: 02-2002 |
rubicon unlimited.. thats the rig to get, although its not out yet, nor am i sure it ever will be. LongWheelbase Wrangler.. Jeep or not, thats cool. | |||
| James Hamilton (Rocknroll) New Member Username: Rocknroll Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2004 |
"how does the full time 4x4 operate when off road? is it basically rear wheel only until it slips? When off road, is it better to lock diff?" You are confusing full time 4 wheel drive with some form of "all wheel drive". Full time 4 wheel drive is four wheel drive, period. Ideally, each wheel has 25% of the vehicle's driving force at any given time. The center diff and both axle diffs exist for the times when that is not the case, i.e. turns. When off road it is normally best to have the center diff locked so that both the front and rear axles are guaranteed power. | |||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1214 Registered: 04-2003 |
full time 4wd means all wheels always driving, but power can vary between front & back axles. If you don't lock the diff (which sets front-back power split at 50/50) you'll find things happening like front wheels breaking traction & spinning on a loose hillclimb or rear wheels spinning in mud with fronts not spinning. | |||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1315 Registered: 09-2002 |
Blue, locking the CDL doesn't split the front/back power at 50/50. It only forces the front and rear driveshafts to spin at the same rate. James, every wheel gets 25% of the engine's torque with all diffs open, and it is true in the turn or ice or rocks. | |||
| Justin Sherfy (Jrsherfy) Member Username: Jrsherfy Post Number: 51 Registered: 08-2003 |
Peter, Please explain what you mean by front/back power not being divided 50/50? I thought Blue was correct. Are you saying if your front wheels are off the ground and the back wheels are touching the ground then the back is going to get 100% of the engine's power, or vice-versa? JRS | |||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1317 Registered: 09-2002 |
exactly. | |||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 668 Registered: 02-2003 |
if the center diff is locked the front and rear drive shafts will both be turning in unison (ie: LOCKED) unless something fawks up. that seems to be 50/50 to me. its called a transfer-case for a reason. | |||
| Justin Sherfy (Jrsherfy) Member Username: Jrsherfy Post Number: 53 Registered: 08-2003 |
So is that the advantage of a full time 4 wheel drive over a part time 4 wheel drive? JRS | |||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1318 Registered: 09-2002 |
with CDL locked, full-time 4WD is the same as part-time 4WD engaged. With CDL open, you have the front wheels pulling you wherever they are pointed - without the drivetrain bind and potential for skid due to difference in rates of rotation of different wheels.
Philip, this statement is meaningless. When the driveshafts are locked together, the power is distributed exactly as traction is. No traction for one axle, no power to it. Makes sense? | |||
| Ian Kreidich (Ian95rrc) Member Username: Ian95rrc Post Number: 158 Registered: 03-2003 |
No, that doesn't make sense Peter. Can you explain how the transfer case knows what axle has traction? | |||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1215 Registered: 04-2003 |
6 half dozen make sense? | |||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1319 Registered: 09-2002 |
Goddamn... It doesn't know, and doesn't care. Here's what happens in a full-time 4WD with an open center diff, like a D1: CDL open: the differential splits engine torque 50/50 between the front and rear driveshafts. The [open] axle differentials split their driveshafts' torque 50/50 between the wheels. This is always true. Power is a product of torque times rate of rotation; if one wheel is up in the air, out of four, it will spin - and therefore get all power from the engine. At the same time, if a wheel is spinning at a constant rate, torque required to spin it is equal to traction. If there's no traction, it doesn't take any torque to spin a wheel - just compare the amount of throttle you apply when you have one wheel in the air with what it takes to spin the engine at the same rpm with all wheels on the ground. On dry pavement, while going straight, all four wheels get equal power as well. CDL locked: The front and rear driveshafts spin at the same rate, regardless of load. Skipping the wheel-to-wheel relationships within an axle, if an axle doesn't have traction, it doesn't receive any power. The axle with most traction will receive the most power. Blue, I hear you. It's at least two hours away. | |||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 568 Registered: 02-2002 |
LOL Ho Chung | |||
| Ian Kreidich (Ian95rrc) Member Username: Ian95rrc Post Number: 159 Registered: 03-2003 |
Thanks Peter. I should give up but in my final attempt to explain my retardation, I will give you this senario. The front axle is off the ground, the rear has traction. The front wheels are spinning, not much, but they are rotating. Does it not take some amount of power to spin them? | |||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1217 Registered: 04-2003 |
LOL, I've never had both front wheels off the ground before | |||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 458 Registered: 10-2002 |
Blue-Does your Disco have a wheelie bar?? How do you keep your front end from lifting under full throttle? | |||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1218 Registered: 04-2003 |
LOL, I lied  | |||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1320 Registered: 09-2002 |
Blue, I've managed to have all four wheels off the ground two weeks ago. If my son found a camera, that would be the funniest TH photo ever. (and no, I wasn't high-centered) Ian, yes, there is always some friction - wheel bearings, brake pads, etc. - so it will take some power to keep the wheels spinning in the air. | |||
| Ian Kreidich (Ian95rrc) Member Username: Ian95rrc Post Number: 161 Registered: 03-2003 |
Damn Blue that's harsh. The theory would apply to a front axle without traction. But hell, I don't really care, it's a stupid debate in anycase. Peter is correct. I was just trying to justify my retardation on a technicality. | |||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 669 Registered: 02-2003 |
my god | |||
| Knut Nerheim (Knut) New Member Username: Knut Post Number: 18 Registered: 04-2003 |
And this started out as a Jeep Wrangler vs. Discovery discussion... | |||
| chuck yarbrough (Cptyarderho) Member Username: Cptyarderho Post Number: 42 Registered: 06-2003 |
Allow me to interject, as I own one of each. Jeep- short wheel base is good in some areas, bad in others. Very cheap to upgrade and maintain, parts are everywhere. Small size goes places the big guys cannot. COVERTIBLE  Rover- LWB is more stable, helps in some obstacles. Carry more people and stuff, much more comfortable on road. Cool factor, LR guys tend to be more polite on the trails, less of the redneck factor (spoken by a 1/2 redneck myself), but some LR guys can be babies, all kit and no go. HEATED SEATS IN THE WINTER... I drove my TJ to Tellico with a friend in a similarly set up 96 Disco, both did fine all around, so really it is more a question of your everyday needs and wallet. | |||
| matt wawak (Chicagorovers) Member Username: Chicagorovers Post Number: 41 Registered: 09-2003 |
I thought Discoveries had the best axel articulation compared to most other 4x4's. Landrover tires have the best ability to maintain contact with the ground through extreme uneven terrain and that ability can make the difference between getting stuck and traversing obstacles. I think wranglers also have low ground clearance compared to a Disco. | |||
| Skaramunga (Skaramunga) Member Username: Skaramunga Post Number: 51 Registered: 02-2003 |
land rover vs. wrangler how about that wrangler unlimited now there's some cargo room for ya guy... & now 30% quieter.Hahaha Jeep Wrangler SE: Fuel Tank Capacity [gal] 19.0 Towing Capacity - Maximum [lb] 1000 P215/75R15 Goodyear Wrangler VSB AT's Ground Clearance - Approach Angle [DEG] 42.2 Ground Clearance - Departure Angle [DEG] 31.5 Ground Clearance - Ground Clearance (at curb weight) [in] 8.9 Land Rover Discovery 4.0: Fuel Tank Capacity [gal] 23.4 Towing Capacity - Maximum [lb] 7700 Low Gear P235/70R16 Michelin XPC Ground Clearance - Approach Angle [DEG] 39 Ground Clearance - Departure Angle [DEG] 29 Ground Clearance - Ground Clearance (at curb weight) [in] 8.4 Honestly i'll take my 96 discopig w/ the high octane gas, frequent check engine lights, so there is a textbook answer for ya... | |||
| Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Senior Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 401 Registered: 09-2002 |
What would you say if it was wrangler vs. d90. I think there would be some interesting answers, seeing the similar size of the two. | |||
| Skaramunga (Skaramunga) Member Username: Skaramunga Post Number: 52 Registered: 02-2003 |
i'd still go with LR...defender over my disco any day. only way i'd take a jeep is if it was vintage WWII and came with a helicopter, or those ill rock climbers. | |||
| EricV (Bender2033) Senior Member Username: Bender2033 Post Number: 302 Registered: 08-2002 |
Skaramunga's post is a bit misleading as he is quoting the towing capacity of the SE which is a 4 cyclinder. All other models (X,Sport, Sahara, Rubicon) have a 4.0L engine and a 2000 lb towing capacity. Aaron, depends on the wrangler ... if I had $25k to spend on a used D90 with 75k+ miles or a new 2004 Rubicon with all its phatness, I'd have to go with a rubicon. If money were no object, I'd get the D90. | |||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 27 Registered: 01-2004 |
Damn... you guys forgot the most important detail, JEEPS ARE TRAIL RATED Duh, BT. | |||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) Senior Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 384 Registered: 08-2003 |
This is what I wear to 4x4 shows/events...
Oh yah, did you know that if you stick a "TRAIL RATED" sticker on any vehicle, it doubles it's offroad capabilities! | |||
| Skaramunga (Skaramunga) Member Username: Skaramunga Post Number: 54 Registered: 02-2003 |
thank you thats what i like to here. oh, and buy the way erikv did you want me to compare the disco to what? the rubicon? title says disco vs. wrangler where was $$$ involved in that line. who cares about sport whatever...how about jeeps top of the line rubicon vs. westminster range rover haha right. it's like a cuban cigar vs. a garcia vega. cuban's more expensive, yet they both smoke, but the cubans got flavor. and if you really think about it, if jeep was really compared to LR, wouldnt it be disco vs. libby...RR vs. Grand cher... & defender vs. wrangler??? seriously how was it misleading the post.wrangler beats the disco in everything except tow capacity...my point was i like LR ... the expense is worth the quality. jeeps are just garcia vega, good for splitin' up only cause they're cheap. | |||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 201 Registered: 10-2003 |
They really are only comparable in off highway prowess. Problem with the Lib, cherokee, Grand, is that they are unitbody, and as such can only take the bending and forces put on them during off road use for so long before the doors dont shut right. I hope this is not the case with the new Range, Freelander, and upcoming Disco as they are all unitized. I do like all the Jeeps currently out.......even the Liberty (needs a lift and some rubber). But, I still think of them as more like toys than tools. It is like comparing a tonka truck to 25000lb bulldozer. They are both yellow.......but.... | |||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 827 Registered: 05-2003 |
I've had a blast trail riding with jeeps One of my favorite things is the humble, friendly, ungrouchy, and easy going "lets do it" attitude of the owners. | |||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 28 Registered: 01-2004 |
LOL, I'de sooner drive a Jeep than smoke (most) Cubans! | |||
| Skaramunga (Skaramunga) Member Username: Skaramunga Post Number: 59 Registered: 02-2003 |
you got bad taste bruno, thats a jeep characteristic...sorry | |||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 30 Registered: 01-2004 |
What, you don't like my RR Classic or was it the D90 that prompted your disapproval, can't be the Discovery cause you own one too... BT. |
"I'd rather..."