| Author | Message | ||
     Jess Alvarez (Jester) Member Username: Jester Post Number: 242 Registered: 11-2002 |
Guys, In the Arizona LRO group, we have had a couple of sightings of the 05 Disco, and opinions started flying. Either way, I thought you would find the cut and paste in my next post interesting, from the standpoint of someone from a Rover dealer actually addressing the level of discontent with the new Disco platform. One of Jeffry Scott's co workers took this picture while driving on the freeway.  | ||
| Jess Alvarez (Jester) Member Username: Jester Post Number: 243 Registered: 11-2002 |
Here is the response from one of the Dealer guys L319 I’ve been reading the posts and I thought I would take just a moment to clear a few things up regarding the Discovery replacement, which incidentally may not be called Discovery. Right now we are coding the project L319 and the Rover’s next vehicle based on the same platform is coded L321. I just returned from the Premier Automotive Group headquarters in Irvin California and received a few updates. As far as why you see this vehicle in AZ. Arizona happens to be one of the places that a number of manufactures test vehicles. Arizona, Colorado, Minnesota, Alaska. Heat, Altitude, Cold. Also southern California sees a lot of pre-production models. Ford issues should be cleared up right now. Ford is not producing this vehicle…it is still Land Rover employees all in England. Ford has been very hands off in regards to allowing the Rover R&D and production groups to do their own thing. The Ford philosophy in regards to their premier automotive group (Aston Martin, Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover) has been to allow each animal to continue with their own people and remain unique in both design and production. This was learned from the very early days of their ownership over Jaguar. You will however, see a co-operation by Land Rover with Jaguar in the future. The Freelander plant will be relocated in Southern England and will be produced in the x-type plant. The Solihull plant will continue the production of the larger more technical Rovers. At this point it appears that there will be a Jaguar power plant in L319. L319 will be a much larger “Discovery” a 13 inch longer wheel base will allow us to answer our most nagging question, that the Discovery is not comfortable for rear seat passengers. L319 will also have an optional (at this point) air suspension system. Also new is the Terrain Response system, which is truly remarkable. Set the setting for sand, rock, road or whatever the condition and the suspension and traction control systems are adjusted for the terrain. Concerns over the independent suspension, should take a hard look at the new Range Rover system. The new cross-linked air suspension works just like a solid axel because when one wheel is pushed up, the air in the chamber is pushed across the “axel” to the other chamber, pushing that wheel down. Just like a solid axel would work, and with no differentials the independent suspension has created more overall ground clearance. Testing the new Range Rover with Land Rover two years ago opened my eyes quite a bit, as I had the same thoughts about independent suspension. The L319 system should work similarly. The anticipated new engine is the Jaguar 4.2 V8 produces almost 300 horsepower; no longer will a Rover be referred to as a dog. Also, with a dual overhead cam, the majority of leak worries will reduce significantly. Most likely we will see a five speed with command shift, just like Range Rover and Freelander. New upscale interiors and luxury features will be standard fare. Right now the exterior will maintain distinguishing Discovery lines but I can’t say for sure how it will look. I do know it will come with a complete line of kit items to dress them up. We are and I am very excited for the new model, even though as my Freelander lease ends, I plan on getting a Discovery. It’s a vehicle I have enjoyed for some time. I’m confident that people will love the new models as well, if the current Range Rover is any indication. This is a good time for Land Rover and the manufacturer will be one of the worlds hottest as they plan on launching two new models over the next year and a half. I will be ordering the L319 in late May/June, so I will be able to answer more detailed questions at that point. Otherwise they will land in the Sates in August. Regards, Joshua J. Jewett Lease Retention Coordinator Jaguar Scottsdale/Land Rover Scottsdale | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 228 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well I am glad Joshua is a happy camper. And why shouldnt he be? More sales is more money, and no one in the business of selling cars would rather sell less cars. However, I cant say the redesign is good for enthusiasts, but it ultimately may allow for production of a Defender for the US market if the vehicle is a hit and does not require LR to shell out tons on warranty claims. I heard the R38A was a nightmare in that regard. Regardless, I hate it. I hate the independent suspension, I hate the exhaust pipes running underneath the rear subframe, I hate the spare under the vehicle, and mostly I hate the traction control. Why not put lockers in it and let the owner decide? This is a completely different class of vehicle. I bet it wont even come with anything smaller than 17s. And puhleeeze, dont ever tell me an independent suspension works just like live axles. And what does an engine being dual over head cam have to do with how much it leaks? One more point, LR may be producing and "designing" the vehicle, but if they are having to use the Ford parts bin what is point. You cant make shit shine. Check out the Jag X type, it is based off of the Ford Mondeo (read Contour) platform. Everyone remember how special a car that was. Interestingly, I was reading a Car and Driver comparo test yesterday, the Jag Xtype came in last, a little too much Ford to compete with the big dogs. BTW, I am not quite sure this should be in the tech section. | ||
| Michael David Bell (Bell03disco2) New Member Username: Bell03disco2 Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2003 |
I came into the Land Rover world via Ford, so I am biased, but from a business stand point it makes sense to raid the ford parts bin. My wife owns a 2000 Contour SVT which is the US cousin of the Mondeo, and it is great. A fun car with just enough power to be dangerous and it handles like crazy. I am disappointed in the independent suspension. Such is life. I have a 03 (but wish I had a 04) and I am completely satisfied. I think that anything that they could do to drum up sales is a good thing for everybody. It gets more aftermarket involvement and things become less expensive. Resistance is futile! | ||
| Jess Alvarez (Jester) Member Username: Jester Post Number: 244 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hey, Matt, youre preaching to the choir about the dislikes of the vehicle. Many of the points you made are the same ones I made back to the AZLRO list. I just thought it would be interesting to see the dealer's take on it. As far as it not being in this section, whatever. If it needs to be moved, it needs to be moved. The topic is technical enough in with respect to the makeup of the future Disco that I didnt see a problem with it being here. But whatever, doesn't matter to me. | ||
| Steve Turpin (Steveturpin) New Member Username: Steveturpin Post Number: 17 Registered: 01-2004 |
I don't see how pulling parts from the Ford bin can be any worse that pulling them from the LR bin...I just turned 70K on my 99 Disco II, and have been through 2 engines and 3 transmissions, not to mention the normal valve jobs and head gaskets. My 96 Disco was even worse...not something to be proud of, and frankly, I would not drive a LR without a comprehensive warranty. I, for one, look forward to seeing what LR/Ford will come up with for the 05 Disco...if it is capable off road, has character and is more RELIABLE, I might buy one...even with the independent suspension! | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 229 Registered: 10-2003 |
Steve, you are right about the parts bin stuff, there is nothing wrong with taking a lot of the little stuff, and I will even go as far as saying engines and trannys. Parts sharing saves money. Look at what VW has done with platform sharing, the Jetta, Beetle, Golf, Audi TT, and Audi A3 all use the same basic structure. Ford uses Visteon for a lot of its parts including dashboards and the like. For example, Visteon makes the Discos dash for 1/3 of the price of LRs old supplier. But, I still dont think using the frame off of an Exploder is where LR needs to be. Many people go into a showroom and are smitten by the quirkiness and brand image Land Rovers have. I know the newest explorer is a damn fine SUV, but there is only so much redesign to suspension components etc. that can be done when adapting the frame to a different bodyshell. Short control arms are short control arms, and short control arms = short travel. I dont see a comparison between the RR which used BMW parts and a specific unitbody platform and the new Disco using a ladder frame off of an Explorer. Sometimes I wonder if LR is taking the wrong approach to selling more vehicles. What if the current Discos had bulletproof reliability and had the fit and finish levels of a Lexus LS430? Or, what if this new rig comes out and has the typical first year bugs (remember the Escapes first year out?)and turns Lexus/VW cross shoppers away? We know the true enthusiast is not gonna want it, it wont even be able to be lifted with out spendng big bucks. Then you are stuck with a no sell. Michael, I think you know your SVT drives a little different than the standard 4 banger SE. | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Senior Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 636 Registered: 02-2003 |
The 05 engines aren't coming out of the mondeo/xtype rather the S type. We've all bitched about low power/economy with the current V8 and I bet this will improve a little with the new one.... | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1239 Registered: 04-2003 |
Hey Jess - saw you on the 202 this morning - was a few cars back - those black wheels look sweet | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 679 Registered: 02-2003 |
Ford explorers suck they have sucked from day one, IMHO the more electronic gadegetery air supension all those CV joints electrnic this automatic that is horseshit. Alot more to go wrong in the long run. I would take a leaky Disco I than anything Land Rover will be offering to the North American market after the demise of the Disco II. | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 680 Registered: 02-2003 |
o yeah i forgot the key word. PLASTIC | ||
| David Hunter (Angrydave) New Member Username: Angrydave Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2003 |
Well Phil, There are PLENTY of Leaky Disco I's out there for you to take. In fact, ALL of them. Have a good time with them, and as they get older, and the parts get more scarce, you can explain to your kids why they cant go to college because you wont be seen driving plastic offroad, and have spent their school fund on gaskets, and sealer on your Disco I.  | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 3053 Registered: 02-2002 |
I work for a state regulatory agency over coal mines, so, we actually use our 4x4s at work in some pretty muddy stuff, following over bulldozer tracks, or skinning up abandoned logging roads to get to mine portals, etc. Currently we have Jeep Cherokees, GMC Jimmys, and Ford Explorers (we had the previous version, and now have the new version). The older Explorers were comfortable on the road, more than the Jimmy or the Jeep, but the worst once you got it off the blacktop. The Jimmy was an okay balance, but it was preferred by rotund inspectors, because it had more room between the steering wheel and the seatback. The Jeep was the roughest ride on asphalt, but it was the best if you had to really get out on the mine site instead of staying in a parking lot. We were having lots of reliability problems with the previous generation Explorers, and they were the oldest, so they were surplused. When Jeep discontinued the Cherokee for the Liberty (which doesn't have enough cargo room for our needs), we bought up as many Cherokees as we could find (as a government agency, we are required to purchase US vehicles, no Rovers or Toyotas, etc.). We've started getting rid of the Jimmys now, and since there's no Cherokees anymore, we had to have something to replace them. As I said, Libertys don't have enough room. So, management decided to ignore the mechanics' reliability complaints, and bought several new Explorers. Let me tell ya, we've never had so many problems. They keep losing rear-ends, a third of them are parked, and Ford doesn't have a recommended fix for them. They can't turn around on a gravel road without getting stuck. We swapped things around, so that inspectors that go to deep mines (ie, parking lots) are driving them, and surface inspectors (ie, following bulldozers) have the Jeeps that we still have. We're already trying to get rid of the Explorers. Finally, after seeing the jump in maintenence costs and the inability to fix the rear-ends, management is going to look into getting Trailblazers now. Not that they're ideal, but they'll have to be better than the Exploders. (Durangos are too expensive for the budget requirements). Anyway.... I seriously hope that there are no shared parts between Explorers and Land Rovers. FWIW..... -L | ||
| Tony Zuniga (Tony23007) Senior Member Username: Tony23007 Post Number: 285 Registered: 05-2003 |
To state that Ford is not producing the new Discovery is a bunch of crap!!! Really if you think about it, Land Rover is loving the fact that the new Range Rover is being manufactured with the help of Ford, in the least it helps them shed out their old image of un-reliable cars!!!! Furthermore as a company Ford has not spend millions of dollars purchasing Land Rover just so it can stand aside and hope that they get their acts together and actually make a profit!! Maybe Ford engineers don't have a hand in the LR products but thier financiers sure do, so you can bet that Land Rovers of the future will share many parts with Ford's large parts inventory. | ||
| Michael L. Palmieri (Great_pumpkin) New Member Username: Great_pumpkin Post Number: 36 Registered: 01-2004 |
Getting back on point a bit, did anyone notice the specs pointed out by the dealer's post? A 13" longer wheelbase brings the new "Disco" to a 113" wheelbase. That is a significant increase at 13% and puts the Disco's even longer than the D110. Even if the frame and suspension remained the same as they are now, what effect will that extra 13" have on performance? Also, the upgrade to a 4.2l-300HP engine sounds like a good thing. The current 4.6 is sufficent, but really, more HP is a good thing. That being said, I think it is really too early to render judgement. Personally, from the mock-up drawings and spy photos, I am not too keen on its looks. That is why I just bought an 04 DII. However, until I sit in an 05 and take it out for a test drive, I will hold off ripping it to shreds. --Michael | ||
| Peter J. Kelly (Pjkbrit) Member Username: Pjkbrit Post Number: 78 Registered: 05-2003 |
The only interesting "parts" will be the Jag engine and any diesels they homologate for the US market. The car looks crap IMHO and I hope they don't call it Discovery. Everyone sooner or later tells a horror story about British cars leaking/breaking/stopping etc etc ... but for the 'enthusiast' it's funny how many Brit classics are still on the roads and still worth money. True they often wren't well put together, but the design and soul of these motors has always made them worth keeping. I believe Disco 1s and IIs will ultimately become 'classic' and we will see them around on the roads run by enthusiastic/eccentric car owners like me for years. The soccer-moms will probably love the 05, most of us here on this board will hate it and Land Rover will make a profit and stay in business. I for one will buy an 04 4.6 and keep it for 25 years! Pete 99 D2/85 Saab 900T/78 MGB/73 Saab 96/02 Subaru Forester(wifes) | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 230 Registered: 10-2003 |
Wow, I tell you what is quite a coincidence, I checked Fords website and the Explorere has a 113" wheelbase. How weird! Dave, dont you think you are being a little harsh? And I dont think Phil is going to be the only one not seen offroading in them.......in fact I woud say no one would, as Explorers just dont have the cajones. You better not take those speed bumps at an angle or else you might lift a wheel and lose all forward momentum! But, hey, its got height adjustment so at least you can be high off the ground when you are stuck. Michael, the longer wheelbase essentially will make the vehicle ride smoother and provide for bigger doors and more room for the front and rear passengers. It will add stability in towing. But, it also means it will get hung up easily off road. But seriously, will someone please look at the exhaust coming from under the rear suspension subframe. That is one big slap in the face. How easily damaged would that be in even the mildest of off roading? That 4.2 aint gonna be making no 300hp with a couple of pinched tailpipes. As I said before, all will be well if we get the line of next generation Defenders and they havent been too "Forded." I can see a nice 110 commercial based on the Ford Windstar platform ...... plenty of room though. | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 231 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oh, is that a window box for flowers on the back door? How nice! They really one upped the beetles flower vase with that addition. Maybe that is some of the "kit" the dealer will sell. | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 229 Registered: 02-2003 |
I´m jsut happy that I convinced my brother to get a 2003 Disco FULL OPTION. That´ll be my DD when I can afford to buy it off him | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Senior Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 637 Registered: 02-2003 |
I've did some measuring of sideways views of the 05. If you assume the wheels are 18 inches, I come out with a 104-105 wheelbase.... | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 232 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hahahah, good job McGuyver. That is impressive, and I hope you are right. | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 682 Registered: 02-2003 |
thanks David I am now dumber having read your post | ||
| gil stevens (Gil) Senior Member Username: Gil Post Number: 400 Registered: 02-2002 |
its 113" and it wont be called Discovery. | ||
| Jess Alvarez (Jester) Member Username: Jester Post Number: 247 Registered: 11-2002 |
Thanks Blue, I will have to post pics. | ||
| David Hunter (Angrydave) New Member Username: Angrydave Post Number: 9 Registered: 08-2003 |
Phil, It would be impossible for me to make you dumber. I am thinking perhaps you people take yourselves waaaaaay to seriously. Dave Before you kids snap an axle, it should be clear that was all a joke. As was the first post. I guess <sarcasm> </sarcasm> doesnt really come across on here... It's pretty clear that the thing isnt going to rival the existing Disco, and wont come close to the first gen for offroad ability. I agree that the best we can hope for is a better warranty state, and thus a Defender down the road. Ford has already made their decision, that much is clear from the test mules, so I am personally crossing my fingers for a nice Defender. I'll prolly trade my 02 in for an 04 next year, someones nice ex-lease mall crawler, then hang on to it til something better comes along. no offense to anyone who took it. I love this forum. | ||
| Christian Kiely (Redrover47) Member Username: Redrover47 Post Number: 72 Registered: 09-2003 |
Peter, I notice that you have a '78 MGB. We have a '77. Just wndering if yours runs at all. As I have not yet gotten around to installing a battery cutoff switch, it dies within 2 days of non-usage, not to mention when it does actually start, if you stall it out, (which is very easy to do with the smoothness (LOL) of the fourspeed)it sometimes won't restart for at least 1/2 hour. As far as the battery goes, I have opted not to use a trickle charger b/c the last time I had one hooked up, the battery literally exploded. The guy at our MG place (which by the way sucks) said he had never seen that before on any vehicle. If you have found a way (i.e. things to replace or fix) to keep it running somewhat regularly, lemme know. Chris Kiely 2001 D2 1977 MGB | ||
| Christian Kiely (Redrover47) Member Username: Redrover47 Post Number: 73 Registered: 09-2003 |
oh yeah, sorry for hijacking this thread, but I just needed someone to share my pain. | ||
| Mitch Williams (Mitch20) New Member Username: Mitch20 Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 |
You guys crack me up. New Disco will be a budget Range Rover just like it always has been. Yeah it will be full of tech but thats just the way everything will be going forward. I have even heard rumors that British forces were testing VW Tourag for possible support vehicles because it has good off-road ability and has robust air-conditioning which is becoming a must have for forces in Iraq. Hey, even ex-camel guys have given the new RR thumbs up and admit that it is far superior than 4.0/4.6hse. I will always keep my classic but I am really looking forward to the new Disco. Here is a thought, one day maybe 20 years from now we might see a Freelander with standard air-suspension that gives it 4-5 inch lift at the push of a button, full of tech, traction aids and hill grabbing ability and might be even more capable than our RR/Disco Classics. Technology sure helps, it just does'nt last forever like our mechanical classics. | ||
| Robin Cooper (Cooper1) New Member Username: Cooper1 Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2003 |
Well shit. After reading all of this, and from what i have read it sounds pretty accurate, i'm happy as hell to have my 97 D1 with 70,000 mi. i agree in the sense that the Discovery 05'will be considerably different and thats prolly the idea. Out with the old and in with the new is the new motto. It's not capabality anymore, its legroom and room for poster board and Wal-Mart groceries. Hail to the D1 and DII. If the 05' looks anything like the picture above, i'm sittin on a gold mine. | ||
| Geoff 93 RRC (Geoff) Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 244 Registered: 11-2002 |
In my view what makes ownership interesting for Land Rovers is that, aside from superlative offroad capability, they were designed to be worked on in the field. I like that I can fix or adjust more or less anything myself with basic tools. The option of not needing to be towed to the dealer for a breakdown is very unique. This new Discovery is really just another family "lifestyle" mobile and seems unabashedly designed for that segment. A 4Runner is a better product in that market. I won't be buying a 2005 Discovery, new or used. My $.02. | ||
| justin monnin (Ineedthissale) Member Username: Ineedthissale Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2003 |
was there this much discontent over the D2??? i still see talk about how the D2 sux. lets just wait and see if they stay true or sell out | ||
| matt wawak (Chicagorovers) Member Username: Chicagorovers Post Number: 47 Registered: 09-2003 |
Here's the simple facts on the 2005 Discovery: Its NOT suppose to be a premier off road vehicle! Its a luxury street SUV wih "some" off road ability. In order for Land Rover/Ford to make more money the vehicle has to appeal to the majority of people not just the "off roaders". You wouldn't design the "best 4x4xfar" with an exhaust pipe under the subframe, a "roomy" 113" base, spare tire UNDER the truck, less ground clearance, and independent suspension. Would you?? No, of course not. A modern 2005 era Rover made for off-road use would have much better ground clearance, short wheel base, basic underbody protection, locked diff's, and.....maybe even A/T tires instead of highway tires. Sorry but this "Ford street Rover" wont be any competition for off road marketed vehicles like the Jeep Rubicon or Hummer H2. It may be better than the BMW X5 or the Volvo XC90 though..ha..ha. Sad but true. | ||
| Jess Alvarez (Jester) Member Username: Jester Post Number: 248 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well, as one of my friends has said, I wouldnt have a problem with the gadgetry, the high tech BS, and the luxury of the Gen III Disco and the Rangie if a capable offroad vehicle with solid axles and a simple, fixable design were available from Land Rover. They still make that vehicle, and it is called the Defender. Too bad it is not available over here. | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 236 Registered: 02-2003 |
With teh way these guys are going, the Def will be with IFS and IRS as well... Better stock up on Used Rover axles, suspension, links...etc...EVEN TRANSFER CASES and LEARN how to WELD | ||
| Michael L. Palmieri (Great_pumpkin) New Member Username: Great_pumpkin Post Number: 37 Registered: 01-2004 |
Nadim makes a great point --- isn't the rumor that the next gen. Defender will share a platform with the 2005 Disco? That would be bad. Spkeaing of the new Defender, I just got my latest edition of LR Monthly and they are having a design competition for the next Defender. Pretty interesting read. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 701 Registered: 11-2002 |
05 Disco is what you get if you seal a darby up real tight and then keep pumping air into it... "Blow me" | ||
| Mitch Williams (Mitch20) New Member Username: Mitch20 Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2003 |
The new Disco will be awesome off-road. This board is getting a reputation for stubborn enthusiasts. I love the simplicity of Series vehicles but also love high-technology. In the view of pure enthusiasts there is only one Land Rover and that is Series 1,2,3 and Defender right? OH wait you mean a Discovery, Range Rover and Freelander are'nt a Land Rover! But it says so on the badge. Unless you are saying a 1948 series1 is similar to a Disco2 than we have nothing to talk about because things have a way of evolving and hopefully improving. New Range Rover is awesome off-road. I guess we will have to wait and see, but I can tell you from the pic that the new disco's departure angle is significantly better than the current vehicle. Repeat after me "I'm not affraid of independent suspension" "I'm not affraid of independent suspension" I'm sure Land Rover will find the right solution! | ||
| Michael Noe (Noee) Senior Member Username: Noee Post Number: 865 Registered: 03-2002 |
Good. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1610 Registered: 02-2003 |
I don't care if the 2005 Disco is the cat's ass offroad the thing is freakin' ugly. The discussion should stop there for all I care. I would never buy a car that hideous. RD | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1243 Registered: 04-2003 |
Have you seen the finished product yet, Roberto el Magnifico? Granted, the disguised beast is not aesthetically pleasing in my opinion. I think all the high-tech gizmos are cool, provided they work 100 times out of 100 (therein lies the problem). I also agree that the high tech is fine, as long as the decidedly low-tech product still exists.... | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 702 Registered: 11-2002 |
What cracks me up is. I would like to find the adds where Land Rover used to compare their solid axles to the independants. I am betting you dont see that hanging in the dealerships anymore... LOL They used to full on dog anything but solids and had little pictures to go along with it.... "Blow me" | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 703 Registered: 11-2002 |
Blue , that go's without saying. I went thruogh this whole thing with Justin some time ago. Where do the majiority of the Land Rover issues lay ? In the electronics , thats where. Just read this board. This light is on , that brake pedal is pulsing , this one has a code , that one cant gets its windows down , on and on and on... So what will happen when you get more and more electronics ? Not hard to guess really... But then again , I guess that makes me stubborn because I dont want to own a hunk of shit that has left me in the middle of nowhere... "Blow me" | ||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Senior Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 641 Registered: 02-2003 |
Rob: There is lots of detail work that is missing to misleading on the vehicles seen publically....still may not be enough for many people..... Sticking with my 95, and will add an off lease 04 to the stable | ||
| Steve Turpin (Steveturpin) New Member Username: Steveturpin Post Number: 18 Registered: 01-2004 |
Everyone knows that LR needs to make their vehicles more reliable...and it's not just electrical...you should see my service records for my two discos both 1 and 2. You shouldn't have to be a mechanic to be able to drive a truck...and as far as field servicability goes...are you going to swap out a transmission or engine block while your off wheeling? Who wants to venture far from civilization when you know deep down, that it is fairly likely that something big could fail. These vehicles should not be breaking down so much to begin with...then they would have a track record that matched their character. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1250 Registered: 04-2003 |
what do you mean by "it's not just electrical"? are talking about major mechanical failures? or just leaks & shit? I've never had any problems with the good old clunky transmission & drivetrain or engine. I'm actually pretty damn impressed with my 105k mile beast. It's getting a little ragged around the edges, and I've developed lots of little pesky things like leaks, but leaks & electronics are two entirely different beasts - I can always bring a bottle of whatever juice and besides, leaks won't leave you with a 5,000 paper weight in the middle of nowhere | ||
| Ivan 94 LWB (Montoya) New Member Username: Montoya Post Number: 35 Registered: 01-2003 |
All this new model critiscm is typical from an enthusiast sight. Every step forward is always a step back. For the bmw 3series, the e46 was too big and had too many electronic aids. Same complaints came up when the e36 came out. The e30 was the best . . . I'm keeping my 2002 . . . bmw is going to hell!! Too bad the internet wasn't widely used to look back at old complaints of when the d1 and d2 came out. Just think that in 20 years when a major Chinese car manufacturer buys Ford, our kids will be on this board complaining about how messed up the new Land Rover models are shaping up and how they will keep their 2004 Range Rover forever. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 705 Registered: 11-2002 |
What you have here is two sides. The one side doesnt say it but they really dont use the Disco for anything outside of gathering kids and getting groceries. For them it doesnt really matter what they do the to Disco. It will still have "LAND ROVER" on the hood and they will still get the same status when going to the mall and to starbucks. They will never see the other side of the argument because its an arena they simply will never play in.. This is much the same as the Darby owners... "Blow me" | ||
| Chad Meyer (Ccdm3) Member Username: Ccdm3 Post Number: 208 Registered: 07-2002 |
If you want the literature mentioned above about SFA vs IFS/IRS look no further than the owners manual. We all carry it around with us to remind us how much better SFA is in LR's eyes. Well...until now. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 707 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yeah , but there was a big poster in all the dealers... I think its hillarious now... They probably want you to forget all about that now.... "Blow me" | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 240 Registered: 10-2003 |
Kyle....you bring up a funny point. I wathced the video that came with my bros 02 4.6 RR the other day and they said something like "we at Land Rover believe the ultimate off road vehicle needs a stout ladder frame" or something like that. It struck me as ironic becuase as we all know, the new one is unitbody. Ivan I know what you mean, but I think more than just enthusiasts think the new BMW idrive is junk. Just read any Car and Driver article on one. Personally, I like the idea that I dont have to rely on someone else to do every mod and repair to my vehicle. I am good with tools and have successfully done shock swaps, spring swaps, etc on my Rovers, but I would not touch an IFS or even worse IRS. We all have seen what can be done in terms of real performance gains with the setups on our Rovers and other vehicles with live axles at both ends. Problem is, you can lift an independent system for big bucks but even then you cant really improve the performance of it (flex etc.) without tearing everything out and putting longer control arms, coilovers and all kinds of crazy gizmos. A lot of people think the new electronics are really cool, and I admit, they are "cool." But they really are only compromises. There is no substitution for lockers and anyone who really uses their Rover knows that. In reality the only place the traction control and the likes is impressive is on tracks and courses designed to show them off. I have been disappointed with the real world results. Ironically, i bet LR put more money into developing the ETC system than they would have spent if they had just started putting electronic lockers in back in 93 when the system came out. | ||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 1064 Registered: 02-2002 |
Cmon guys, this is all postulation and hypothesizing. Can anyone tell me if the 2005 Disco can submerge underwater for 15 seconds without fresh air? | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1252 Registered: 04-2003 |
this is America, this is the 21st century, you need lots of buttons & acronyms | ||
| Steve Turpin (Steveturpin) New Member Username: Steveturpin Post Number: 19 Registered: 01-2004 |
No one is going to tear the shit out of a vehicle they just dropped $45-75K on, unless they happen to have a few million in the bank. If you want to mod, wheel and beat the shit out of your truck, get an old one...if you want refinement, gadgets, fresh paint and hopefully reliability...get a new one...that's all. And yes, to whoever asked, I have been through 2 motors and 3 transmissions in my 70K 99 D2, not to mention the smaller stuff like valves and head gaskets. My 96 was even worse...so it's not just electronics and sensors that are going bad... | ||
| Shane Lesteberg (Snwbord24) New Member Username: Snwbord24 Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2004 |
Steve, I disagree. I dropped $40k+ after tax and crap on my 2003 and I have every intention to go out and "tear the shit" out of it. Do I want it to get banged up, no, who does but it's a reality I can live with. So I'll take the gadgets the wheeling some mods and see how it goes. And no, I don't have millions in the bank. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 709 Registered: 11-2002 |
LOL , well it wouldnt be getting the shit torn out of it if it was built to handle it. Now would it ? I love these threads..."Blow me" | ||
| Ivan 94 LWB (Montoya) New Member Username: Montoya Post Number: 36 Registered: 01-2003 |
hey craig, i just checked your profile. it's your 2 year dweb membership anniversary. woohoo! | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 710 Registered: 11-2002 |
ok , I cant stop laughing at that last post... Shane are you infering that no one would buy a new LAND ROVER and take it off road ????? LOL. What the hell is it for then ? You still to thick to get the point here ? "Blow me" | ||
| Shane Lesteberg (Snwbord24) New Member Username: Snwbord24 Post Number: 18 Registered: 01-2004 |
Kyle, I'm not infering that at all, I'm saying I bought a new one to do just what I think it was intended to do. Maybe you should read my post again, I believe Steve was inferring it not me. | ||
| Steve Turpin (Steveturpin) New Member Username: Steveturpin Post Number: 20 Registered: 01-2004 |
I'm not talking about not taking a new LR off road...I am talking about the difference between moderate wheeling and the kind of extreme activities that only a small percentage of new buyers actually engage in or care about. That sort of off-roading will most certainly beat a vehicle up cosmetically, regardless of its capabilities...something most new car buyers are not willing to do. Why not buy and older one for that...makes sense to me. If I dropped 75K on a new RR, while I know it is a capable vehicle, I think I might be a little careful with it. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with buying one though...or do you guys think that the only reason for buying a LR product is for extreme four wheeling...you don't need a LR for that. I think there is more to wanting a Land Rover than just the mall snob and the four-wheeling extremist ends of the spectrum...there might be something in the middle. | ||
| Shane Lesteberg (Snwbord24) New Member Username: Snwbord24 Post Number: 20 Registered: 01-2004 |
I agree and I'd put myself in that middle category. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1611 Registered: 02-2003 |
i will say this. if kyle and myself are wrong... then what a delight it will be. a reliable good looking toyota like electronics and reliablilty with all the tuffness that is land rover. it sounds too good to be true. but a resonable person only has to look at classic RR to disco1 to disco2 to see the trend. the trend is more electronics that break often and a truck that is not field maintainable. i hope i'm wrong, but i rarely am rob | ||
| Kip Pinette (Lvpine) New Member Username: Lvpine Post Number: 9 Registered: 09-2003 |
Rob, I completely agree with you. When they try to improve on the Disco by redisigning it, it seems the practical thing to do would be to fix the existing design flaws and keep the things that everybody loves. The lack of breakable electronics in the disco 1 is not a design flaw. | ||
| David Hunter (Angrydave) New Member Username: Angrydave Post Number: 12 Registered: 08-2003 |
WOW. I guess I should have made that "you take yourselves too seriously" post all in caps. It would have captured the feel for this thread a little better. Do you people have jobs? "Well Bob, I fully plan to tear the shit outta my truck" "Well Barry, if youre gonna take that 40,000 dollar truck out and tear the shit outof it, youre an idiot." "Dont call me an idiot!" "Youre an idiot!" disclaimer.... All names in previous post were changed to protect those involved. All posts are intended to be humorous or sarcastic, your mileage may vary, if you think that I am picking on you or out of line please call 1-800-DONT CRY. Do not attempt similar posts at home; these posts were created by a professional in a controlled environment. Poster does not take any responsibility for injury that may occur (tears, snot bubbles, hurt feelings, etc) | ||
| Chu Y. Son (Cyson) Member Username: Cyson Post Number: 47 Registered: 01-2003 |
All this trashing of nice riding IFS/IRS trucks, I'm curious to see what would happen to the sales if they just continued to build Series trucks. I'm assuming it wouldn't be good. So in the end, the offroaders have no ground to stand on. Maybe this just means that field repairs will have to evolve. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 711 Registered: 11-2002 |
No Chu , the climate will change and the "NExt hot thing" will come along. Someone will exploit the hole in the market and fill it. The status seekers will continue buying the land rover until its rep starts to waiver because no one is actually doing anything with them anymore and then you will see the circle start all over again.. "Blow me" | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 242 Registered: 10-2003 |
Haha, Chu, I would not mind having the diagnostic software on my laptop, that would be evolved field repairs, right? Steve, personally I agree with you about having older rigs to tear up, but you are missing the point. The Rovers used off road have OME or similair suspensions, winches, etc. This type of stuff is not gonna happen on this new truck. Maybe the winches, but no one is gonna pay 3 grand plus labor to have a lift put on an 05 whether it is brand new or 10 years old. Rob, dont be a dweb lounge snob, a lot of us regular member have said the same things you and Kyle said. Possibly even before you did. | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2003 |
BTW......I dont think we are taking ourselves serious enough, especially you David. Calm down man, you are gonna blow a gasket. | ||
| Ivan 94 LWB (Montoya) New Member Username: Montoya Post Number: 37 Registered: 01-2003 |
this is for the 05 haters . . . this kalahari just popped up on craigslist. of course it has "never been off road" . . . http://www.craigslist.org/sby/car/24355807.html | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1615 Registered: 02-2003 |
LOL, matt simmer down man. i think that since you think david is taking things too seriously that you might be talking things too seriously. at least thats what i think. and you're right kyle, matt and i all think the new disco is shitty. and combined we're never wrong rd | ||
| Bob Shinn (Bshinn) Member Username: Bshinn Post Number: 57 Registered: 01-2004 |
At least we get to buy used 04's. Poor Landcruiser guys have to make due w/ 97 or older (@ least here in in the US). Toyota sold out 6 years ago. | ||
| Steve Turpin (Steveturpin) New Member Username: Steveturpin Post Number: 21 Registered: 01-2004 |
You guys are right, I'm just going to get one of these instead...  | ||
| Matt Moore (Mmoore) New Member Username: Mmoore Post Number: 26 Registered: 01-2004 |
I saw an ARO in Reno about 5-6 years ago. Not very impresive IMHO. Leaf sprung rear and IFS. The one I saw had a jeep four banger and 5spd. The overall build quality, fit and finish was crap. Not much in the way of electric gizmos though. | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 245 Registered: 10-2003 |
Rob, thanks man. I needed to feel included in the shitty feeling club. I was just kidding around anyway. If only I could work on my lounge status so maybe someday I could stop by for a drink one evening in the ever so infamous lounge......... | ||
| Bill Rogers (Dc_plasterer) Member Username: Dc_plasterer Post Number: 94 Registered: 11-2003 |
Wow, After reading this thread, I don't feel so bad about all the Freelander bashing we got! I'm planning on making a purchase this year, sooner rather than later if I don't like the 05, so I'm going to the NY Show to see the new Discovery for myself, anyone else going? | ||
| Chu Y. Son (Cyson) Member Username: Cyson Post Number: 48 Registered: 01-2003 |
Well Kyle, I think all of us here hope that LR would attempt to fill that hole. Unfortunately, it looks like it's going the 'other' way for now. | ||
| David Hunter (Angrydave) New Member Username: Angrydave Post Number: 14 Registered: 08-2003 |
Yeah Matt, I'm wound REEEEEEEAL tight. You should be able to tell that. I have sooooo many other things to worry about, and since keeping up with the Jonses is sooooo far down my hit list, I really dont CARE what happens to the next Disco. I would LIKE it to be good, however I doubt it. When it isnt, since I just DONT care, I will by a nice 04. ANd I will drive the wheels off it, since there wont be an alternative I'm willing to accept. Lament the passing of a great. All Hail. The Disco is dead. Hooah. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 714 Registered: 11-2002 |
You have to give them a little credit fot he 04 it does indded have the thigns that people said they wanted. Bigger motor , locking center... Although its still too electronic for my taste I do agree that its the last of its breed.... For now anyway.. "Blow me" | ||
| Justin Sherfy (Jrsherfy) Member Username: Jrsherfy Post Number: 65 Registered: 08-2003 |
Kyle, What year is your rig? JRS | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 716 Registered: 11-2002 |
94 and Heathers is 95...... "Blow me" | ||
| justin monnin (Ineedthissale) Member Username: Ineedthissale Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2003 |
it comes down to money, confidence and mystique. face it not many people wheel there trucks and of the people that do only a very small % have LRs. this is because of money. i don't see this bord filled with 04 owners y? because how many people have $50 grand to drop on a truck. next is confidence, i need my truck to take me to work, that simple. i work in construction that is the reason i need a truck that will perform of road. so i want to have the confidence in the truck that it will get me into the woods to the job and back. now my favorite one is the mystique. i love having something different every one i work with has a F150,ram or chevy pick up truck. the disco is like a beacon in a sea of bland. That is the main reason I bought mine. so if the 05 is good or bad I wont be looking to by one for another 5 years any way. So | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 699 Registered: 04-2001 |
What the 05 is going to do is make DIIs cheap and DIs next to free within two years. I think it will sell well. 03-04 RRs have been pretty reliable (especially compared to the P38a!) and they are not bad offroad, with decent tires they are great (of course I have seen only one with decent tires). If you want something you can modify and run big tires and lockers and beat the crap out of and still have the doors open and close ok, then the 04 is the one you want. I am of the keep two trucks school so a nice 05 with 300hp to tow around a $5000 beater DI would be a nice compromise. Ron | ||
| Corey (Discobro) Senior Member Username: Discobro Post Number: 343 Registered: 12-2002 |
Yeah that way us poor folks can affard the REAL 4x4s.... And just drive on by when you are chassis-high in mud. Really though, LR and Ford are looking to the market that is going to make them the most MONEY. I really don't think they are as concerned if it can rock crawl or not or whether the new independent suspension drops 8" or 30", they want MONEY. And who better to market to than those WITH money and only really care about looking good and SAYING that, "yes, it is the best four by four in the world, but I have never been off-road in it. Don't want to get it dirty..." <sarcasm>It's the future. Deal with it and stick with your D1 and D2s.</sarcasm> | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 729 Registered: 11-2002 |
Definately Corey but you can only bullshit and ride on the back of what the old trucks have done for so long. Then they start coming up with concept vehicles which are what they should have stayed with anyway... The whole cycle is kind of funny really.. "Blow me" | ||
| Steve Turpin (Steveturpin) New Member Username: Steveturpin Post Number: 22 Registered: 01-2004 |
Ford is going to wish they never bought LR if they can't figure out a way to make them more reliable...the two I own have broken down way too often...and are always a bitch to fix due to dealer distance and/or parts pricing and availability. I also have a 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4X4 with 100k that has had far fewer problems in a lot more miles. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I still love the Rovers though...despite my common sense and the ridicule from my friends! | ||
| Bill Rogers (Dc_plasterer) Member Username: Dc_plasterer Post Number: 96 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is there any chance in hell that Ford would one day allow any Ford "family" Dealer to service vehicles across name plates? Doesn't GM do that? | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 251 Registered: 10-2003 |
Bill, I think you are correct about GM, but I think all of there vehicles use the same diagnostics. That is how they will honor Oldsmobiles new car warranties after dealers are completely gone. I suppose if Ford did this then maybe someday, but personally I doubt it. I think a lot of buying an expensive car is getting good service. I know a lot of us have mixed opinions on LR service (as there, like anything else, are good and bad dealers), but I love the fact I get a free loaner whenever I need one even though my Disco is now out of warranty. Acura has their tagline "TLC" and I am sure others do to. I hope in the future we will see more uniform service from dealers, and even if you could take your Disco to a Ford dealer, wouldn't you rather take it to a lodge or a centre where you feel as if you are hunting in Africa???(obviously I am kidding, but I do believe that is what LR was going for, and I must admit the showroom in my towns dealer is really nice.) | ||
| Gerardo Garza (Gerry) (Mapmaker97) New Member Username: Mapmaker97 Post Number: 34 Registered: 06-2003 |
Like everyone, I am also disappointed in the direction that Ford/Land Rover are headed in, but the reality is that they need to turn a profit. Nothing wrong with that, but I will keep my 01 DII with the CDL nipple until my daughters and I have to push it from place to place. When that day finally comes, I may consider the following Cross Lander and not a Ford Discovery VI. Perhaps, we will all register on the future board of Cross Landers someday. http://www.str8bloggin.com/archives/001444.html http://www.taylorauto.com/crosslander.html | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 1073 Registered: 09-2002 |
May sound silly but I actually like going to the dealer because their buildings are nicer and have more character than your regular dealerships plus they always have some LR movie/documentary on and LR magazines everywhere. It adds that little something to the LR image. I find the other dealers rather bland and cookie-cutterish. For a while there, the dealer had a Series III 109 sitting in the showroom (with complimentary paper towels underneath it) so it was pretty cool to go look and sit in this thing. I'm not sure how much I'm going to like walking in there with an Explorerish LR staring at me though. Leslie - meant to ask you this before but with all the problems your department is having with the NA trucks, has anyone ever asked you about your Disco? |
