| Author | Message | ||
     matt wawak (Chicagorovers) Member Username: Chicagorovers Post Number: 48 Registered: 09-2003 |
I am seeking opinions on the pros and cons or advantages and disadvantages of a rear diff replacement mod for a 1998 Disco. The truetrac vs the detroit locker vs stock "open diff" seems to be a good start. Possible points of comparison: How much better on road and off road, general vehicle handling/driveability, and negative side effects to the drivetrain/vehicle. Does spending $500 for rear diff upgrade really improve off road ability that much?? | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 698 Registered: 09-2002 |
Come on Matt, you can do it: http://www.discoweb.org/cgi-bin/discus/search.cgi This topic has been discussed over and over for years. There's a wealth of information just waiting for you. SC | ||
| Pugsly (Pugsly) Senior Member Username: Pugsly Post Number: 286 Registered: 11-2002 |
yes, spending $500 for rear diff upgrade will really improve off road ability that much. of course, it will cost more than $500 for the diff itself, then there is labor, and you'll want to change your axle shafts at some point (either before or after you break the stock ones, your choice!) If you look through the threads as Steve suggests you'll find this has been beat to death. Why are you looking at truetrac and detroit locker? I wouldn't consider either for off road. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1632 Registered: 02-2003 |
come on pugsly, you wouln't consider either for offroad? then that leaves the ARB and some hard to get australian lockers. | ||
| Chad Meyer (Ccdm3) Member Username: Ccdm3 Post Number: 209 Registered: 07-2002 |
I am very interested in this topic myself. I am looking to upgrade to lockers or LSD as well. A search pulls up next to nothing... | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Senior Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 258 Registered: 02-2003 |
selectable locker | ||
| Brian O'Connor (Hooky) Member Username: Hooky Post Number: 88 Registered: 09-2003 |
LOL CS Not sure why there is a search for the site sometimes :-) Matt, you'll be best served looking into the pluses and minuses of each unit and seeing which will be best for your application. But if you want opinions, buy ARBs and be done with it. | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 699 Registered: 09-2002 |
TRUETRAC - 48 results TT - 168 results DETROIT - 257 results ARB (select "and") LOCKER - 113 results Select 'whole words only' SC | ||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Senior Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 303 Registered: 06-2003 |
Get a detroit in the rear. selectible or TT up front. thats my opinion. | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Senior Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 260 Registered: 02-2003 |
OK I am ALWAYS quiet when it comes to this debate, BUT YOU ALL KNOW THAT SELECTABLE IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO, but you are all too scared of: 1. complexity (hey...read more) 2. human error (it exists, and can be corrected) 3. budget constraints (i agree with you on this)  SO...you ALL know that ARBs are THE BEST WAY TO GO!!! I just wanted to state that because if performance was the ONLY criterion (I know it NEVER is), ARBs would rule... I think it would be smart if we create a sort of "grading system" by votes PER locker (Ho?) so that the new person to lockers would now that the TT or DT or ARB was chosen because of this PRIORITY... Anyways, just giving you guys my input...it is NOT a fluke that the MOST ADVANCED military trucks STILL use a selectable locking system that is MORE complex, expensive and harder to mend in the field for NO REASON other than PERFORMANCE. | ||
| Michael Noe (Noee) Senior Member Username: Noee Post Number: 871 Registered: 03-2002 |
Nadim: Here's another one for you. How about just plain-old simple curiosity? I've got a selectable locker in one truck and on a tractor, I KNOW what that does for the performance of each machine. Next I'm going with dual TTs (HD axles rear) in another truck because I just want to see WTF it does for me, maybe I'm from Missouri. I also need a new rear diff. Maybe it'll work great, I've heard it's a good option. Maybe it'll be okay, like on a D1 or D90 I saw once. I KNOW the ARB option performs, seen that in action quite a few times (Detroit too). Point is, I've never been behind the wheel with it so I'm curious. Maybe I'm the best damned driver in the world and somehow I can get that extra little bit of performance (not bloody likely) . THis has been said before, and I didn't fully grasp it then, but now I see that in many, many cases (if not all), driver makes all the difference when it comes to performance. -Mike | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1261 Registered: 04-2003 |
Why are you looking at truetrac and detroit locker? I wouldn't consider either for off road. then where would you consider them for? | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1496 Registered: 02-2002 |
LOL - mall curbs only I guesss Bill | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 399 Registered: 02-2003 |
Still waiting for Pugsly to answer...then I'll add my .02 cents | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 769 Registered: 11-2002 |
Nadim , now explain why the ARB is a better diff ? That beater of yours doesnt drive any better then anything here with a detroit in it. I also dont recall seeing all of the places those ARBs have carried you. Well , aside from the bottom of that pond that one time..... "Blow me" | ||
| Chad Meyer (Ccdm3) Member Username: Ccdm3 Post Number: 210 Registered: 07-2002 |
Steve, Just because the search pulls up a ton of hits does not mean any of them answer the question...especailly when most of the answers are "do a search." I know the difference between the options, but sometimes getting real world feedback is helpful. | ||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Senior Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 304 Registered: 06-2003 |
Once again. Detroit: "Bulletproof". Drop it in and forget about it. Easy to instal for us DIY's out there. Works great, does not affect on road steering etc. Trutrac: Torsion diff, puts power to the wheel that is not slipping if the differnce in wheel spin is less then 3.5 times or something like that. This is why it works great with ETC and just OK with regular 4WD. ETC brakes the wheel that is spinning too fast so the TT can then distribute power from it. It also corrects highway wander so for those us with bigger lifts and stock radius arms can also trac straight and handle as good as new or even better. Also easy to install. Drop it in and forget about it. Also the cheapest available. Selectible lockers: "The best" beacuse you ahve the option of locked, or open. on the road you can leave it open and not worry about it, although i do not worry about my detroit. For offroad you can lock it, or leve it open giving you many options for many different situations. Supposedly being fully locked can cause a rig to sidestep and possibly be dangerous, but i hvae never seen this happen, there are no rocks in the binebarrens where i go. Also the most expensive and most dificult to install. requires a seperate compressor or air tank. Lots of places for something to go wrong. I hear that fuses blowing are the biggest cause of them not working or and air hose is broken etc. Too many things can happen inthe middle of nowhere. As i said before, i have a detroit and a TT and love it. Yes a locked front would be good sometimes but for all the highwaydriving i do i like the better handling also. | ||
| Rick Clarke (Tugcap) Member Username: Tugcap Post Number: 44 Registered: 02-2002 |
Took much longer to cut and paste this stuff than to find it. This is a great resource if you are willing to work a little. Dont bullshit us, or put the board down with this lame crap:"A search pulls up next to nothing..." ../17/21613.html> ../17/33332.html> ../17/42843.html> ../2/44250.html"http://www.discoweb.org/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?file=/17/26009.html" target="_blank">../17/26009.html> ../17/42135.html> ../17/22114.html> ../17/30302.html> ../17/29161.html> ../17/34396.html> | ||
| matt wawak (Chicagorovers) Member Username: Chicagorovers Post Number: 49 Registered: 09-2003 |
Thanks to all who have contributed to my question! I like using the Discoweb for the ability to interact with fellow enthusiasts (read and then respond to current posts/questions.) If I want to search a product Ill use google...No offense SCrover. Anyway, someone said Truetrac or Detriot are not for off road use???? HUH??? | ||
| Bill Mallin (Billmallin) Senior Member Username: Billmallin Post Number: 449 Registered: 09-2003 |
So Rick... I'm guessing you have a CDL with your DII. Why don't you have dual TTs (front and rear) instead of the Detroit in the rear since the ETC works so well with TTs. Just curious as to your thoughts... Also, do you also have upgraded axles? From whom? I'm off to read all of the links you found below. | ||
| Bill Mallin (Billmallin) Senior Member Username: Billmallin Post Number: 450 Registered: 09-2003 |
OK...all read... good thread here: ../17/22114.html> I'm leaning towards dual TTs to work with the ETC, but I bet I could be convinced to go with a Detroit in the rear if there were a good argument for it. And, what if you put a TT in the front of a lifted DII without a CDL? I'll assume it cures the drifting problem... do I gain any other advantage(s)? Again, just curious... (long-term planning) | ||
| Barry (Barry) New Member Username: Barry Post Number: 31 Registered: 02-2003 |
Bill, The dual TTs w/4:11's have only been on for two months. The few short off-road obstacles encountered so far have "seemed" rather easy with CDL engaged. Then again, after spending major $$$$, would I tell myself otherwise? I will have a definitive opinion when trails in the Sierra's are open to 8,000ft. "Drifting problem.... " Hey, I thought it was supposed to do that! Seriously, I found the OME steering damper cured the majority of steering corrections needed at highway speeds. The TT up front only adds a bit heavier sensation to steering input. Not enough to cause the Mrs. to comment. -Barry | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 400 Registered: 02-2003 |
When someone posts "do a search" mainly it's because the question has been asked, a lot, more than once, in ever variation...blah, blah, blah...the debate over Detroits's, ARB's, and TT's has been BEAT TO DEATH. No one in last two months' has asked a question that not been covered. I really think most guys are putting in what ever because of the "sex appeal" and not learning the capabilities of the rig when stock...I wish I was selling them... | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 401 Registered: 02-2003 |
WOW...that was my 400th post... | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 701 Registered: 09-2002 |
Matt/Chad, No offence taken. I've spent many hours browsing the archives of DiscoWeb. My suggestion that you too search for the answers to your questions came from my own experience of knowing what's here for you. If you just want to have a chat about lockers, fine. If you want to take the time to look through the hundreds of posts over the last couple of years and find some "real world" answers, I can guarantee you'll gather more knowledge than you could ever possibly get from a single thread. And certain more than Google BTW. SC | ||
| Shane Lesteberg (Snwbord24) New Member Username: Snwbord24 Post Number: 24 Registered: 01-2004 |
FWIW. I like the old questions coming up again. It really helps rookies like me. I may not know to even ask some of these questions let alone search for them. | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Senior Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 266 Registered: 02-2003 |
OK... EVEN THOUGH I LIKE TO STAY RINGSIDE... Kyle, That pond was not an ARB "locker" per say, but rather an ARB "snorkle" issue, I know, but you can�t blame that on the locker I don�t think I have to prove to anyone how hard I wheel or whether or not I push my truck to the max, that parking lot was VERY tough, I assure you! I have been in MANY a scenario where my locked rear would have me in a WORSE situation than being unlocked. Ok, concentrate here: Was going on a shortcut at 1,200m altitude on a tough ravine section (was the only 4 door and under 39" tire) and had to drive across a 50-60m sideslope on snow and mud beneath it. Let�s jsut say that the YJ with 42" TSLs and dual detroits had to go to extreme measures to cross that section, whereas the 3 buggies on mog axles (selectable lockers) just drove across it like they were in the mall (just making sure Kyle follows here ). Since our great Discos are not too keen on sideslopes and do not have 42" tires and caddy engines, being on detroits would have meant NOT HAVING AN EASIER WAY OF SELECTING AN OPEN DIFF AND CROSSING IT LIKE THE MOG BUGGIES DID. It was effortless, and the dude in the 42" truck was stunned how I passed without any drama (but I got stuck on the ravine crossing and had to be winched out - pics going soon to Ho) Such senarios happen frequently on any sort of loose terra and sideslopes. Again, I re-iterate that by far the diff design I support fully is a spool, HOWEVER FOR CERTAIN RIGS AND TERRAIN. For our "permanent 4wd" heavy trucks, a selectable locker is best in my opinion. I am NOT attacking those who have chosen DTs, but just sharing WHY I WENT THE SELECTABLE LOCKER WAY. Now don�t get me started on the front diff selection, we all know that selectable is the BEST way to go there! And don�t go telling me that the selectables are harder to install and maintain...if that was the case, then you�re driving the wrong make of trucks! | ||
| Pugsly (Pugsly) Senior Member Username: Pugsly Post Number: 287 Registered: 11-2002 |
I'm an ARB man myself. Nothing like being in control of your vehicle and having the axle lock and unlock only when _you_ want it to. ARBs are also very tough diffs. Having an ARB is kind of like having a manual transmission - you have a lot more control, but it is not for everyone. A lot of people like the 'hands off' nature of an automatic transmission - but they don't tend to be the enthusiasts | ||
| Pugsly (Pugsly) Senior Member Username: Pugsly Post Number: 288 Registered: 11-2002 |
Oh, and don't forget the cool 'thocka-thocka' sound of the compressor, which really makes you feel like something is happening down there! | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 779 Registered: 11-2002 |
LOL , what the fuck does big tires and cadilac engines have to do with anything ? And Dont forget Nadim that I have ARBs in one truck Detroit and TT in the other.. The side slope scenarios are the first to always come up. God forbid you would actually have to "DRIVE" that bitch... "Blow me" | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Senior Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 268 Registered: 02-2003 |
HAHAHA Well, MY rig is LEAGAL and minimum requirement, remember, I live in the 3rd world, so I don�t need to go offroad to wheel, I wheel E_V_E_R_Y_D_A_Y! | ||
| Robbie Donaldson (Robbie) Senior Member Username: Robbie Post Number: 534 Registered: 02-2002 |
i've heard it mentioned here before, but i don't understand it too well. with a detroit in the rear, what happens when you unlock your cdl in one of these tough situations? for example Kyle, in the last video, when you are having issues turning down the slope, if you had unlocked the cdl, would it have helped? | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 780 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yep , had I unlocked it . It would have come right on around.. Nadim ? What do you think the trucks here do ? You done any 5 thousand mile trips lately to go wheeling ? The detroited truck here did 140 mile round trip every day last year in DC traffic. The ARBed truck does a hundred mile round trip every day now... Whats your point ? "Blow me" | ||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Senior Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 305 Registered: 06-2003 |
Bill, I do have CDL and it helps alot. The TT's work ok with etc, but not as good as a detroit becasue it still relies on braking the wheel to transfer power which can kill foward momentum. Also, my ETC goes out almost everytime i need it. The CDL and detroit makes the ETC not kick in as much so i lose it less. The ABS pump was not made strong enough to be used for a lot of offroading, especially with 33" tires. | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Senior Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 271 Registered: 02-2003 |
My point is that MOST "SUV/truck"makers (the top "quality" ones at least) have open diffs for a GOOD reason for ON ROAD and HIGH TRACTION surfaces. AND, most HIGH PERFORMANCE trucks have SELECTABLE LOCKERS for a GOOD reason too, to get the BEST of both worlds... I do NOT think that Volvo, Merc-B, Iveco, Kamaz, etc...decided to INVEST R&D, Production and a LOT of other stuff for a GOOD DEPENDABLE SELECTABLE locker just for the HECK of it, but because they were needed to be the BEST they can be in ALL TYPES of surfaces. That is all. Again, "to each his own", in 4 or so years on Dweb, this is the 1st time I give my OPINION, and not my "wrath" or something, and when push comes to shove, I�m all for a SPOOL, BUT, again, depending for what truck/conditions... And YES, I have been on a LONG CROSS COUNTRY trip, and in these conditions, open diffs are necessary for WELL MANNARED driving. | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 405 Registered: 02-2003 |
I normally kill my abs when I go off-road, so ETC doesn't come into play. I had detroit in my jeep, so I've been down that road. The TT's work well for me, and I've been cross country a couple time with them... | ||
| Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Senior Member Username: Gregdavis Post Number: 1160 Registered: 08-2002 |
I use a TT up front to help eliminate some of the "wander" caused by loss of castor, and I use a Detroit in the rear so that when I'm cruising the mall and making tight turns, people can hear the clicking. That way thay know I'm an "extreme" wheeler. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 781 Registered: 11-2002 |
Nadim , you are very fond of the caps...lol "Blow me" | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Senior Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 272 Registered: 02-2003 |
Kyle...its not coz i�m raising my voice, its coz i wanna emphasize | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 783 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yeah , funny the detroit needs to emphasis. It just works and thats that.. "Blow me" | ||
| Nadim Samara (Discodino) Senior Member Username: Discodino Post Number: 273 Registered: 02-2003 |
True True... "just works" = B student I always were an A student and so are the stuff I use (said in teh MOST POSH accent imaginable!). Hey, it work, true, so its settled. |
