| Author | Message | ||
     Ryan Roundy (Rrefxut) New Member Username: Rrefxut Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2003 |
Aiight guys, I have the new 4.0 shortblock for my green '96 disco, as well as all the parts to do the install. Thanks Will and Nathan for the great help! Today I was going to install my camshaft, and get the block ready to put in. I have Installed several engines, but never taken them down to the camshaft before, always let the machine shop worry about that. I've checked the mechanics manuel, and didn't find any helpful info on this procedure, also no results in a search. I Know I need to line up the marks up on on the sprokets, but that's about it. Are their marks on the chain to line it up as well? does the camshaft just slide right in? Is their anything to secure the camshaft in place on this engine? Anything else i need to know? you guys have all been great, and I really appreciate this website. She's been down 2 months now, and I miss my rover, so hopefully I'll have her up and runnin soon with just a little more help. Thanks, Ryan Roundy Pleasant Grove, UT | ||
| Tbow (Tbow) Member Username: Tbow Post Number: 178 Registered: 12-2002 |
Installing a camshaft is very easy. First. if the camshaft came with it's own special lubricant, spread a small amount on the whole camshaft bearing and lobe surfaces. If you can, put some lube on each bearing on the block. If it didn't come with special lube, then I would recommend either engine assembly grease or I've always used a mixture of 75% STP oil treatment and motor oil as an assembly lube. Then insert the camshaft from the front of the engine being very careful not to nick the bearings. If you have a camshaft tool, this will help, but if you don't just support the cam as it goes into each bearing surface. You should be able to support the camshaft until the last bearing surface. Next put on the cam thrust plate and bolt it in place. They are special bolts so don't get them mixed up and torque them to about 20-30 ft lbs. Now look at your timing gears. There should be a timing mark on each gear. Install the crankshaft gear with the timing mark facing out. Don't forget the crank key. Rotate the crankshaft until the timing mark is pointing up in line with the camshaft. In otherwords, the center of the crankshaft & camshaft are perfectly align with the timing mark. Next put the camshaft sprocket gear on the camshaft and align the cam timing mark on the same center line. It doesn't matter if its on the top or bottom of the line just as long as it's perfectly centered. Now what you should have is the two timing marks perfectly aligned with the centerline of the camshaft and crankshaft. Now carefully remove the cam sprocket and place the chain over the cam and crankshaft sprockets and bolt on the cams sprocket to the camshaft. Being very careful not to move the centerline. Tighten the three cam sprocket bolts and torque to 20-30 ft lbs. Now rotate the engine 180 degrees and look at the centerline. The crankshaft, camshaft and the two timing marks should be all perfectly aligned in a straight line. If it's not then remove the camshaft sprocket do it again. You should be able to rotate the engine 2-3 times and they all perfectly align. And I do stress PERFECT alignment. Now spread assembly lube on each camshaft lobe and on the bottom of each lifter before inserting the lifter. Good luck. Tim | ||
| Ryan Roundy (Rrefxut) New Member Username: Rrefxut Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2003 |
Once again, Thanks Tim!!! You are making a habbit of helpin me out. Definately Appreciated! Have a great weekend, Ryan | ||
| Ryan Roundy (Rrefxut) New Member Username: Rrefxut Post Number: 33 Registered: 12-2003 |
Should the new engine have come with a new cam thrust plate and bolt? is this something I need to buy seperately? Or is this something it would be safe to use off of the old block? Thanks, Ryan | ||
| Ryan Roundy (Rrefxut) New Member Username: Rrefxut Post Number: 34 Registered: 12-2003 |
One more question, the new block came covered in some kind of oil protectant, it's a little gunked up, especially on the top of the pistons at the lower edge, and in the camshaft bearings, is it recommended that I clean all this off before i do anything, or is it suppose to stay on there? I would think clean it off, but am uncertain, Thanks again. Ryan | ||
| John Moore (Jmoore) Senior Member Username: Jmoore Post Number: 852 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm in the process of rebuilding an engine for my MG, I've been using brake cleaner to clean any residue. I would think that is some type of preservative, to keep it from rusting, but I dunno. I would keep it clean as possible. I know, when my crank came back from the machine shop, it had sometype of greasy oil on it, the machinist told me it was there to keep it from flash rusting. He told me to clean it before installation with degreaser or brake cleaner and to put a fine mist of WD-40 on it... Hope that helps! | ||
| Ryan Roundy (Rrefxut) New Member Username: Rrefxut Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks John! What about my other queries? Anyone have any thoughts? Ryan | ||
| John Moore (Jmoore) Senior Member Username: Jmoore Post Number: 853 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ryan, I've not rebuilt a Rover engine, so I hesitate to answer those specific questions. I would defer to someone with more experience. Good Luck Man! | ||
| Ryan Roundy (Rrefxut) New Member Username: Rrefxut Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2003 |
Great, I have the gunk cleaned off, and the camshaft installed. I used the cam thrust plate, and two bolts off of my old block, if this was a bad idea, someone please tell me now before i get the engine in. Also the new timing chain on the new block is so very much noticably tighter than the one on the old engine, which I'm very pleased about! Thanks again for your input guys, it allowed me to finish this on my only day off! Now i'm waiting for my heads to get done and i will be well under way! One more question, I noticed the old block has little studs that stick out, which seem to act as guides for the heads to slide onto. My new short block hasn't got these. I am guessing i need to go get some from the dealership, but couldn't tell if they were pressed in? Can i put them in myself? The new block has the holes for them, so I'm sure they are needed, I'm just wondering why it didn't come with them all ready? | ||
| Tbow (Tbow) Member Username: Tbow Post Number: 180 Registered: 12-2002 |
Ryan. You can use the thrust plate from the old engine provided it's not bent or excessively worn. Keep the bolts from the old engine and don't get them mixed up with the other bolts. They are short headed bolts to clear the cam sprocket. What's on the block is just a rust inhibitor. The cheapest way to clean it off is just suspend it above a drain pan and use a gallon of paint thinner with a stiff brush. Paint thinner is a lot cheaper than a case of brake cleaner. Unless you plan to paint the engine, it really not necessary to remove all the rust inhibitor. Just primarily out of the cylinder walls to keep smoking down to a miminum. Also, you'll need to replace crank position sensor plate off of the old engine and put it on the new engine. The old plate will be welded on so you'll have to grind it off. You can weld the plate on the new block, but you can also use JB Weld to hold the plate to the block. The plate is positioned by a drift pin and the JB Weld just holds it in place. Other pointers include: - Use new lifters, rocker arms and valve springs. - Use loctite on the flywheel bolts. - Have the heads done with the new style carbon break valves. - You can't rebuild the oil pump, but I would disassemble the front pump assembly and inspect it to make sure it's ok. If you disassemble, make sure you coat the gears with the STP mixture to ensure proper prime. - Replace the water pump & thermostat. - Use new head bolts and make sure you know how to torque the head bolts properly. Some might say you don't have to but I've broken a few and regret reusing them. - Before you put the valley gasket and valve covers on, put on the oil pan and take a can of STP Oil treatment and pour it over the valves and camshaft. It really helps on the initial start up. - When your ready to start the new engine, crank it over (without the spark plugs) to make sure it has proper oil pressure. - When you start the engine run it for 20 minutes at about 1500 rpms to ensure the lifters get pumped up. I do this with all of our race engines. Good luck Ryan. Any questions, don't hesitate to email me. Tim | ||
| Mike M (Rangeroverhp) Member Username: Rangeroverhp Post Number: 229 Registered: 09-2003 |
Nice answer Tim. I'm surprised the guys who sold him the bits didn't explain any of this. | ||
| Ryan Roundy (Rrefxut) New Member Username: Rrefxut Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks again Tim, I do have new lifters, but will need to get some rocer arms and valve springs. I also bought a new oil pump, it was the oil pressure dropping on the last one that killed it, just wish the dummy light had come on before I heard the knocking! I'm putting in an oil pressure guage this time to make sure that doesn't happen again. I also have all new bolts for the top end. Thanks again for the advice. It's printed up and has a new place in my manuel, adn I'll be sure to follow every step. You've been Great! You've also made it possible for me to do this on my own, and save a lot of money, always helpful when still in school. Where is Elk Grove anyways, I'm from Thousand Oaks originally. Any common wheelin grounds we could play around on next time I'm out that way? Take Care, and have a great weekend! Ryan | ||
| Tbow (Tbow) Member Username: Tbow Post Number: 181 Registered: 12-2002 |
Ryan Elk Grove is a suburb of Sacramento. What your doing is very much a DIY project. Just take you time and if it doesn't seem right, just ask. I own a transmission repair a High performance and a muffler shop. And for what it's worth, I don't mind sharing these tidbits if they can help you save a few bucks. I just bought a 4 wheel drive 1,200 HP dyno that we can start testing and power tuning 4 wheel drive trucks and cars. So I'll be interested in what I'm putting out on the LR. I have to admit, I am not a die hard 4 wheeler. Although my son who just started driving wants to test the LR if he can get it away from the wife. But if you happen to be in Sacramento area and what to dyno test or tune your LR, let me know. If you have ANY more questions, don't hesitate to ask. Tim | ||
| Tbow (Tbow) Member Username: Tbow Post Number: 182 Registered: 12-2002 |
Oh Ryan. The studs on the block are guides for the head alignment. You can remove them with a special tool or if the block is no longer any good, you can remove them by carefully drilling around the studs to relieve the pressure and take them out with a vise grip. If you want to save the block, then just buy new ones from Nathans, or British Pacific, they are just a few bucks. One final tidbit, when you get the new rockers, don't for get to get new rocker shafts. and install the rockers on the shaft being very careful of the oil position holes on the shafts. Tim | ||
| Ryan Roundy (Rrefxut) New Member Username: Rrefxut Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2003 |
Right on Tim... Maybe I'll have to bring my old firebird in for you to tune before I take it to pamona this summer. Thanks again for the info, and take care! | ||
| Ryan Roundy (Rrefxut) New Member Username: Rrefxut Post Number: 40 Registered: 12-2003 |
By the way, that brings up another question. I now have two 4.0 blocks sitting in my garage which I am told are no good. Even though they make a great decoration, will a recycling place pay me for them? are they at least worth something there? I know i made pretty good money when I took my cracked alluminum wheels off of my firebird down, not a fortune, but more than i could have ever made from alluminum cans. Maybe I can make some off of these useless blocks as well? Or does anyone have any better ideas? Thanks, Ryan | ||
| Ryan Roundy (Rrefxut) Member Username: Rrefxut Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2003 |
Well, another day off, and I'm back at it. I got the camshaft in last Sunday, thanks for all the advice, now I can't seem to find the crank position sensor you mentioned T Bow? Where is it located on the block? Also, my oil pan was pretty gunked up, so I had it in the solvent tank for a while. It had a rubberish coating, and when I cleaned it, the solvent had softened it and took portions of it off. Is there any purpose for this coating, I assume there must be, but none of my other vehicles have it. Is there someone who makes a simular spray on coating, or am I safe to just clean it all off and use some engine paint on the whole pan. Thanks again guys, Ryan | ||
| Phil (Discoanywhere) Member Username: Discoanywhere Post Number: 159 Registered: 06-2003 |
The scrappers should take your blocks or any other metal tid bits and garbage. My local scapper will take anything...metal of course.. The rubberish coating I'm assuming is on the outside of the oil pan??? Cause I'm sure you wouldn't paint the inside... I'd just think its some type of undercoating...imo | ||
| Tbow (Tbow) Member Username: Tbow Post Number: 192 Registered: 12-2002 |
Ryan, It was good talking with you. Hope the project is going ok.. The coating on the pan is most likely undercoating put on the by dealer as part of a undercoating package when it was sold. If it's off, just spray the pan with black paint to prevent rust. |
