| Author | Message | ||
     Melissa Nance (Roverchic) Member Username: Roverchic Post Number: 57 Registered: 02-2004 |
Anybody out there want to suggest when I will know it's time to change the catalytic converters on my '95 disco? ""Rattling and terrible performance. You will notice a lack of umph."" I found this in the archives from Will Tillery (Will). So now my question is I think that I have this problem. There is a rattle under the car. I lifted it and determined the sound is not coming from under the hood ..But under the car itself. A) The sound is like a marble.. Hitting metal. B) Started out like coke cans hitting other coke cans? C) Is only there when I accelerate or idle. (When in Park, Reverse, 3, 2 Gear and Drive) TAP TAP TAP. D) Once I hit about 25 mph the tapping rapidly dissipates. E) A buddy borrowed the rig, filled it up with 86 Octane ..Tank was already half full with 93 Octane...therefore we mixed 86 plus 93...Silly Boy!  F) When I first start the car it is not apparent, the more I drive the louder it gets especially when I am stopped (again when stopped it happens in all gears). Start to accelerate it goes clank clank clank ; gone after 25 mph. Does anybody half any clue what this could be? It was worse last night..And has since then gotten some what better. But the performance is not lacking, nor have I experienced any type of degradation (yet). Lastly, it started Sunday (after the mixing of the octane). Background info on the rover: Just had the 60K mile service done @ the LR dealership, valve job, replaced the fan clutch, just changed the oil 10w30…Check engine light did come on for about 3 days, now it is off and has been for some time. Miles= 63.8K THANK YOU FOR ANY ADVICE!!! THANK YOU!! Appreciatively, Melissa | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 334 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mel, you say at the top of your post for a 95, but you mean 98 right? Anyhow, I have mixed feelings here. If it is your converter or muffler rattling it is not related to the octane. If it is pinging from the octane you would not really hear it at idle, just when under load I belive. From your post, it sounds like a heatshield is loose or your converter is busted up. Try and kick the exhaust or beat on it (cold please) and see if you can duplicate the noise, then track it down. | ||
| Melissa Nance (Roverchic) Member Username: Roverchic Post Number: 58 Registered: 02-2004 |
MATT: Sorry.. I copied that first line from the archives.. I drive a 1998 D1. Thanks a million! I will make you cookies or something!! | ||
| Melissa Nance (Roverchic) Member Username: Roverchic Post Number: 59 Registered: 02-2004 |
Can not trace it .. Comes from the front directly between the two front tires..I think it might be a rod or piston in the engine? What does not make sense is that it is coming from under the car..AHHHH!!! I guess "Henry" is off to the doctor. | ||
| Big Ed (Sandman) Member Username: Sandman Post Number: 64 Registered: 02-2004 |
Roverchic, I had the CAT go south when I put Mexican gas (no offense) in my rig once. Seems it didn't like the amount of lead in the "unleaded" gas down there. It rattled just like you described. The ceramic inside got clogged and then shattered. Sounds like marbles in a can until you put enough exhaust through there to pin all the pieces against the back wall of the can. Then let off and the marbles run loose again. Just from what you wrote, it's sounds exactly like my troubles. I put a new CAT in and it solved the rattling (mind you this was not a rover). Now, if I can just do the same with the rattling in my brain! But I seriously doubt it was the gas your "not so friendly guy" put in the tank. Hook up an OBD and see what it says. SandMan | ||
| charles pastrano (Charles) Senior Member Username: Charles Post Number: 384 Registered: 08-2002 |
Check under the car and see if the converter is hitting the frame. Then take a ruber mallet and hit the converter to duplicate the sound. I cant imagine the converter going out so soon. If this is the case go to a muffler shop and have an aftermarket one installed. Charles | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 595 Registered: 04-2003 |
Most muffler shops will check this free of charge... all you have to do is ask and they will check (they are hoping for issues, so they can charge you for the work). My local muffler shop check the Cat on my car free just to find out all was working good...not bad at 182k on the original exhaust. | ||
| Will Tillery (Will) Senior Member Username: Will Post Number: 363 Registered: 11-2002 |
The converter that normally hits the frame is the passenger side. It is really sandwiched in there. You can normally weed this out by letting the truck idle and putting it in reverse...Normally you hear the rattling during reverse gearing. You can also get under the truck and take a look at how close it is to the frame. As far as the rattling goes.. The flow will make it more noticeable at idle than at highway speeds. I would take it to a muffler shop or advise the dealer you beleive the cats are bad...they may take a look at it for free and you should be covered. I beleive they have a 8-80k on the cats. | ||
| Melissa Nance (Roverchic) Member Username: Roverchic Post Number: 60 Registered: 02-2004 |
Thank you again guys!!! I do not think I am going to get off that easy though. The noise is more intermittent. It comes and goes..The way the mechanic looked at me made me want to throw up! He said smoothing about 12 hours labor and dropping the engine .. Then he says just cheaper to buy a new engine? Said it is not a rod or piston ..but a shield?? It has a bit of a rhythm to it .. the noise does! Sounds like the drummer boy song you know from Christmas. It is coming from where the Y PIPE meets at the top of the car.. An engine blowing at 62.8k miles? Any thoughts ? I will get a second opinion of course, and a third... I am ever so grateful for all of the advice!!! Thanks!! Mel | ||
| Will Tillery (Will) Senior Member Username: Will Post Number: 364 Registered: 11-2002 |
Melissa, Before you drop that kind of money and time into the truck get a 2nd opinion. Also check the shield that protects the starter area and see if that came loose. Have someone inspect the passenger side manifolds towards the firewall area while the truck is running. | ||
| Robin Cooper (Cooper1) Member Username: Cooper1 Post Number: 60 Registered: 12-2003 |
Land Rover will cover the cat. conv. under WARRANTY up till 80,000 mi. If your check engine light has come on and you are outting out bad emissions they will fix it for free. They will not fix a noise though. I just resently had the same problem. Marbles, cans, etc. Yeah, my cats on the inside are broken but they are not putting out bad emissions, just making a horrible noise. Don't believe that bone head who said to get a new engine, that's crazy. if it's a heat shield, thats no biggy but if its your cats your covered. | ||
| Melissa Nance (Roverchic) Member Username: Roverchic Post Number: 62 Registered: 02-2004 |
Robin: .. It is the cats!! I took it to a local shop today (ROVER CANNIBAL).. They said about 400.00 .. I guess I did not realize that it was covered by LRNA??? | ||
| Robb Sundmaker (Robb) Member Username: Robb Post Number: 136 Registered: 03-2002 |
Melissa, I have a 1998 Disco as well and about 3,000 miles ago I noticed the same rattle. It has gotten worse and mostly rattles at low speeds/idling/braking. I had a few people look at it and they all say it is one of the catalytic converter. Yesterday my "check engine" light finally came on and the code is that it is a bad oxygen sensor. This is a result of the cat converter. You have four options that I know of: 1. Buy a complete new y-pipe which contains both the cats for about $500. Your price of $400 seems good. 2. Buy only one cat and have it welded on for about $200-300. 3. Buy a performance y-pipe (Borla or NRP) for about $800. 4. If your truck has under 80,000 miles bring it to Land Rover and have them swap it out for free (that is if you have failed emissions inspection). | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 601 Registered: 04-2003 |
Melissa, if it does not fail emissions test via an exhaust sniffer, LR will not cover under warrenty...Rattling, does not mean failing. If you need to buy new ones, I know that Summit racing sells them for $75 a piece part number is CTO-2540 for 2 1/4 in and out. Hope this helps, Joey | ||
| Melissa Nance (Roverchic) Member Username: Roverchic Post Number: 64 Registered: 02-2004 |
I really appreciate all of the above posts! The response was incredible and every single one of you was absolutely correct (as always) about the aforementioned "CAT" issue!!!! I am going to have it fixed by Rover Cannibal... I trust them and they do quality work. They were the second opinion..The first opinion was obviously smoking something! Robb thanks...I want a Borla but I would rather have a winch or a ARB bumper ...WAHOO!! I would attempt the LR dealership but since the check engine light is not on, I am assuming that I would have to be doing some excessive polluting for them to fix it(for free)! That noise is driving me crazy!!! It is scarring my dog! With gratitude, RRRRoverChic Sandman: My buddy that filled up the rig was a "friendly guy". Would I let the average Joe borrow my rover? | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 779 Registered: 04-2001 |
$400 for used cats is a rip off. You will be doing it again soon then. Melissa, You are a lawyer in training who just dropped a lot of money on the "Just had the 60K mile service done @ the LR dealership" Now if it were me here would be my play: Take it to the dealer: "I hear a noise under my car." (might even add there was a check engine light but it went out but that would be outside my ethical boundries) Then they will tell you that you need new cats, if they are nice they will put it on a sniffer and just give them to you for free. More likley they will say you need new cats at $XXXX. Start out nice and then you say, oh is that all I thought I needed an engine . . . and produce the emission warranty in your owners manual which says they are covered and be like I just spent $XXXX on my 60k these are covered, I will sue you and report you to the feds, I am never going to come back etc etc. The only thing a car dealer fears more than a lawyer is a law student with a chip on her shoulder. Ron PS worth a shot, new land rover cats are sooo nice | ||
| Robb Sundmaker (Robb) Member Username: Robb Post Number: 137 Registered: 03-2002 |
Melissa, I agree with you. A LR mechanic was really trying to talk me into getting a NRP y-pipe ($800). For the record he had nothing to gain and added he would throw it on for nearly nothing. I am like you I would much rather spend $800 on a Rovertym slimline bumper than an exhaust system. Which brings me to my next point. Before you buy an ARB read some old posts on Dweb about the various bumpers. ARB really hurts your approach angle. If money is an issue and you want to save a few hundred bucks I am sure you will be happy with an ARB. Robb Sundmaker | ||
| Melissa Nance (Roverchic) Member Username: Roverchic Post Number: 69 Registered: 02-2004 |
Now the left cat is bad too ...They said 390.00 for the right ..and the left 390.00?? My only concern is that noise ! The whole point in getting this fixed was to resolve the noise issue !! Now they want 800.00 for a the y--pipe andthe cats? Anybody? 800.00 then I need to just do as Robb said and get the Borla... | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 605 Registered: 04-2003 |
Melissa, it is all in what you want to do...I would call a few muffler shops (non-name brand) and ask how much they charge to install new cats. Or how much they charge if you bring in your own. Like I said, Summit has them for $75 a piece, so if they would charge $100 to install them you would save alot of money....also call around outside the city you live in....but that is me. | ||
| Melissa Nance (Roverchic) Member Username: Roverchic Post Number: 70 Registered: 02-2004 |
Joey .. Why would the shop charge me 390.00 for the right only?? Are they ripping me off??? I feel so taken ... I was warned about them... | ||
| Melissa Nance (Roverchic) Member Username: Roverchic Post Number: 71 Registered: 02-2004 |
I understand that the right is harder to remove than the left ..I just called the muffler shop they said 350.00 for the right ..left was cheaper ... something like 240.00? OK.. from now on I am doing this the cheap way ... I hate to be cheap but come on 400.00 for one CAT CONVERTER ? | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 606 Registered: 04-2003 |
The part from Summit is a universal Cat for $75 I know my local muffler shop just charges by the hour if I bring what I want to them... That is why I suggest calling around. The sad thing is there are only 5 makers of Cats in the US that I know of, and everyone else just puts there name on them. That is why I always shop around...plus I am very frugal.... | ||
| Melissa Nance (Roverchic) Member Username: Roverchic Post Number: 73 Registered: 02-2004 |
I need to be frugal ... I think I am just going to rig it ! I have some old cats off my Uncle's Tahoe they only have about 10K miles.. take those to a muffler shop and see what I can do ! Illegal as hell but it will be cheap! The shop will fix the right one..as far as the left goes .. I am rigging it for now! Of course I am sure this will do wonders for the OBD2 ..and my favorite light "Check Engine".. | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 607 Registered: 04-2003 |
As long as the cats are installed with the O2 sensors in the correct place you should not get a Check Engine light. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1691 Registered: 02-2003 |
melisa, the fact of the matter is the price is fair. check any of the online places and you'll see the cat's aren't cheap. If you are going to butcher in something use the universal cat, as it's been tried and tested. the tahoe shit is getting absurd and i would be surprised if the shop would even do what you are asking. Here in Pensylvania where I live. It is illegal to put in anything but an OEM Cat. this means no after market universal part, even the identical part from a wrecked truck is illegal. rd | ||
| Melissa Nance (Roverchic) Member Username: Roverchic Post Number: 74 Registered: 02-2004 |
HEY RD THE CAT THEY JUST INSTALLED WAS UNIVERSAL. LIFTED THE RIG .. Checked myself... Universal.. What pushes my buttons is that the shop never mentioned the fact that it was covered under warranty.. I guess I am ignorant.. EPA LAW ..FEDERALLY MANDATED please reference (The Code of Federal Regulations (CFR)) Section 40 ... I have already written a draft to the LRNA DEALERSHIP(Here in Oklahoma).. 8year 80K miles. It is covered. Like Ron said above .. The dealership should and they will replace the other one. The Muffler shop that I took it to refused to touch it ..Because it is under warranty.. However the shop was MORE than happy and willing to take my $$$$ 395.00 which was 45.00 more than what was quoted by all the other muffler shops..I learned the hard way.. |
