Saw & Drove New Range Rover today

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Author Message   Coppertop Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 07:42 pm:    Greatest thing ever made......all reviews are dead on!!!   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 08:03 pm:    What are you comparing it to? Greatest thing as in greatest Rover ever made I doubt it but then I haven't taken it out for a spin either. And I don't think you were able to take it out on a trail for a spin unless it was a groomed trail.   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 08:48 pm:    Greatest thing ever made? How would you compare it to, say......Sex or Prom night or a good lager...I mean is it that good. Did you smoke after the drive? These are important questions man!   Carter Simcoe (Carter) Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 09:29 pm:    If you ask me, IFS in a rover = not the greatest thing ever made   Coppertop Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 09:31 pm:    No no no.....The greatest SUV ever made, PERIOD!! Not greater than sex, prom night, or good lager....and especially not as good as having sex and a lager on prom night!! No kidding I thought all of the reviews were just loaded, but they are not. I talked to one of the guys at the dealership that went to CA for the big launch and he said that off road they are head and shoulders above any stock disco!! (of course you could buy almost 3 Discos for the cost). But the "fit and finish" is astounding. I have always been a big fan of German Autos and their fit and finish and this thing fits right in. Great job Rover!!!   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 09:36 pm:    Thanks Man, I am LMAO to your great review. Paul   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 09:39 pm:    Coppertop, Do you appreciate Rovers for their offroad abilities or their ability to impress people on the street???   Coppertop Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 11:37 pm:    I appreciate them for their offroad ability first, then their ability to impress ME on the street. I couldn't care less about the "status" that comes with a Range Rover. I have a series II with the ACE package because I like the offroad ability of the Disco and the highway performance of the ACE is unmatched by any SUV. The New Rangie is ULTRA plush and has super looks, but it still has the great off road ability.   Ron Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 11:39 pm:    All the nay sayers can nay say all they want but the thing is sooooooooo good on and off road it is sick. The IFS is like no other IFS out there. 10in+ of travel! Stock discos cannot do that. 12 years from now when they are 5k you know I will have one Ron   Craig M. Highland (Shortbus) Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 11:49 pm:    Just got back from a few hotlaps in one of ours... I will never be the same..... Craig   Coppertop Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 11:54 pm:    Its almost as good as prom night, cold lager, and sex.....oh wait a minute that was earlier....sorry   Dave M. Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 07:53 am:    LRO had a great write-up on it. They were super skeptical as you all our but it was nothing short of amazing off-road and on-road. It's also put together 110% better then previous RR's and the BMW V8 is a amazing engine. The interior is GORGEOUS too.   Randall Smith Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 09:09 am:    Four Wheeler magazine also did an article on the new RR and said it was an amazing truck too. Range Rovers are extremely impressive, all the way back to 1970. Randall   Jack (Olered) Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 09:41 am:    Anon must drive an Escape. THAT'S impressive. Typical anons. NEVER EVER anything good to say.   gil Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 10:02 am:    "If you ask me, IFS in a rover = not the greatest thing ever made" this IFS is like no other.. the air suspension is cross-valved so it acts like a solid axle in articulating situations.. and anon.. i have had the chance to abuse the new range off-road, and box-stock on 19" rims the thing went everywhere my disco could go, but it did it with such ease and grace.. unless youve had one of these on the trail you cant understand.   Gil Stevens (Gil) Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 10:04 am:      KJ Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 10:40 am:    Respectfully I say, how many people are going to take their $70K Rangie out on the trail? I'm with Ron, when it's affordable in a decade or two, then sign me up. The thing DOES scream road trip though..... Karen   r0ver4x4 Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 10:45 am:    IFS   Gil Stevens (Gil) Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 10:47 am:    lol.. nobody will take this thing off-road.. especially since you cant even fit a rim less than 19" on it, and try find an aggressive tread for a 19" wheel. but the fact that it CAN go offroad, even though it never will, is pretty cool.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 10:53 am:    Well, I, for one, would be more than happy to wear one out off-road. 'Course, I can't afford one, lol, but.... Seriously, if I had the money, sure, I'd buy one, and I would keep it muddy. Hmmm..... maybe I need to write a letter to Bill Gates asking for a donation for one of these for off-roading use.... hee hee..... -L   chu Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 11:16 am:    Well, don't they say the same things about seeing Disco 2s go offroad? I figure it's the same effect, just a notch or two higher on the dollar amount. There are guys who refuse to take their Sahara Jeeps offroad because of their 'newness' and 'big buck' perception. If these new Rangies depreciate nearly as fast as the last generation, the wife will be in one within 3 years! chu   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 04:49 pm:    seems like some disco owners here need some humbling.   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 11:56 pm:    what are you talking about...the greatest SUV ever made...have you driven the 2002 G500 yet...totally plush but really built to handle anything off road..yea the new RR is built 110% better than the classic..so that makes it say about 80% of what a 1990 G wagen is... get off the new RR kick already..their total junk compared to the MB G wagen...   Ron Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 02:52 am:    Ha, Interesting but WRONG. G is old school and while it has some benefits the new range rover will kick the crap out of it (barely) off and (especially) on road. They make plenty of offroad tires in Dubs Ron   Randall Smith Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 09:55 am:    Aononymous = Eric Meury Eric is obsessed with the idea that the G wagen is better than RR. Even if it were better than anything else, it's just an extremely odd vehicle. Makes you wonder what is going on in the head of persons who have purchased a G wagen. By the way, they have a new RR at Land Rover Cary.   Gil Stevens (Gil) Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 10:30 am:    i feel bad for the clown that payed $100,000+ for his "super" G-wagen before 02, and now that same vehicle with improvments is in the $70k region. and no g-wagen, new or old holds a candle to the 03 range.. "yea the new RR is built 110% better than the classic..so that makes it say about 80% of what a 1990 G wagen is... " lol.. its time to wake up friend...   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 05:50 pm:    G is indeed nice. but i think the niceness comes from the fact that it's rare, ugly and expensive. so, take away the "rare" and "expensive" and "ugly" you are left with nothing much.   Eric Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 08:26 pm:    except a frame stronger than the most 4x4, including rover, stronger axles, diff locks, and a truck that doesn't rust as easily as rovers, lower stock gear ratio than rover, and a synco transfer case, stock undercarriage protection, no silly computer because its mechanically fuel injected (except on the new ones).. .plus there are about 19 different springs you can get all factory made, gear ratios to 6.19 from factory and in my opinion a truck that despite how "old" my 1991 might be drives better than any coil sprung rover i've ever been in..(not considering eas which i do think is a really nice ride)..oh yea and a truck that doesn't flood the drive way with oil. Now i do agree that they are on the pricy side, thus i imported mine and didn't spend a significant amount greater than i would have if i bought an equivelant RR taking into account all options (build quality..ie a new rr like 97 or 98, coil conversion, adding diff locks, replacing axles, etc etc,)... i too feel sorry for the people that bought a 2000 for $135 and now its 80 but i feel really sorry for the people that pay 80 for the rr3 when the G wagen is available and will be more reliable and last longer. ron's commit about the RR3 i really have a hard time thinking that the 2003 will kick the G wagen. the rr is a very capable vechile but with the independent front suspension is really no match for a truck with solid axles and full lock up..just ask any D90 guy that... to randal "it's just an extremely odd vehicle. Makes you wonder what is going on in the head of persons who have purchased a G wagen".. interesting randal thats what people said about the range rover when i got mine almost 6 years ago... it is indeed an odd vechile however the statement makes you wonder what is going on in the head of persons who purhased a G wagen... well here you go... "ah yes, i finally have a vechile that doesn't spit hot anti freeze at the passanger, a truck that doesn't flood my drive way with oil, doesn't clunk when shifting, doesn't give false codes, doesn't leak water from the sun roof, doesn't leak power steering even after a new one is put on, doesn't brake axles when you pull out of the drive way, doesn't show signs of rust when its 3 years old, doesn't chew up brakes, and finally finally a truck that is built to higher standards than necessary"... i do miss my RR in many ways, after spending so much time fixing it its hard to part..but seriously the RR classic suspension is totally incredible in design, as is many other aspect of the vehicle..it took me lots of places others couldn't, however land rover execution of that design sucks big time and really for the most part never improved by a signficant amount. The RR3 while may be built better than the early rr (probably due to ford and BMW and nothing to do with Land rover) isn't really built for the kind of trail work the others are set up for, but is designed more for the modern SUV driver with its IFS.... my feeling are this, if you are going to spend 80k the money is better spent on the G wagen, for me the choice was a new RR, a new Cruiser, or the G wagen..i made it based on comparing my repair bills plus upgrades of the RR vs a stock G wagen. I wish i had bought the G 5 years ago instead of my second rover (my first was a IIA) so in my comparrisons the G actually turned out to be cheaper in the long run taking into account how long these trucks really do last and what kind of shape they remain in after abuse. I do intend to buy a 1980 G wagnen in 2005 to keep in Arizona (A 1980 G in germany is about 3-4k) so at that prices, way cheaper than an equiv land rover RR or series   Coppertop Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 10:17 pm:    V E H I C L E.....That's how you spell it... If you're gonna come on this board and slam Rovers, at least try not to continue the same typo!! PS I was the one that started this string, and I have driven the G500. That's the reason that I started with the phrase "greatest thing ever made"   eric Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 10:44 pm:    notice the wheel spin on the last pic.....!! thakns for the seplling pit... ti laways bgus me hwen peple cn't thnk f nythng lse to say but slm on typos whn thy realeyeze thy mght be wrng.... the range rover is a nice truck as far as options and interior..a great truck if you intend to lease and only keep it for a few years..i just don't think the build quality is there in any of the land rover vehicles including the RR3. The old series trucks despite all the electrical problems and leaks are saved by their adaptability, their legend and how easy they are to fix with basic tools. Land Rover had it correct then missed a golden opportunity..to improve on something that at the time was really great...while they have improved on options and such they missed the most important item..quality..20+ years of virtually the same quality of build...incredible that they charged 60-70k for that kind of quality ...they are the only manufacturer that can get away with it   Randall Smith Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 12:24 am:    Eric Hope you get well soon. Randall   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 10:21 am:    i still think the new G500s are rare, ugly and expensive.   niall forbes (Forbesn) Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 03:54 pm:    Not that rare Ho, I see about 50 everyday (I work next to the Autoport). I don't realy know much about either the new RR or the Gwagon. I know we had a G out with us once and it didn't seem to have much articulation. There are a ton of them around town here so it's hard to get excited about them. I think it's down to personal preference and use.   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 04:26 pm:    ok then, not rare there, but still ugly and expensive.   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 07:30 pm:    Especially parts - they make LR parts look like a bargin. My LR mechanic also works on the Gs, there are 2 here in Tulsa, and some of the stories he tells are pretty amazing. Maybe not rare but certainly way expensive. Jaime   eric Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 11:34 pm:    actually, I' spent more on my rovers during the first few months ownership than i have on the G...my truck is a 300 engine so i get my parts for any mail order catalog. If bought from Europa its just like buying from a LR dealer or Rovers North. but just like the land rover guys the G owners have gotten creative to develop their own parts source since most of the parts are common to MB cars and trucks. After all there is a large handful of ex-land rover guys driving around in G's now. You can buy in Germany and Austria . .usually items take 2days to a week to get, but you have the exchange rate going for you then instead of against you when buying from england. Personally i've found the parts prices to be the same for common items, more expensive for some and less for others when comparing the two trucks. Also MB parts are better quality and thus last longer than british parts. After 12,000 miles since february 23rd of 2002 which includes one month of off roading in moab and idaho i've spent less on My G than i did during the same length of time and fewer miles driven in the rover. Plus i bought my G with more miles on it than the rover had when purchased. Maybe the mechanic is getting his parts mostly from Eurpoa. Eurpoa is pretty expensive..but like rovers north have an excellent knowledge base and are always willing to help out.. oh and thanks for the get well wish randal.   Ron Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 01:16 am:    "and it didn't seem to have much articulation" Ding ding ding! Lets see some articulation picks eric. they lift a wheel over a curb Ron   test Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 10:57 am:      eric Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 10:57 am:      eric Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 11:13 am:    the first pic of flex is stock. G wagens come with diff locks front rear and center, stock, which makes up for the articluation. also the the lateral inclination of the G is 54 so its very stable off road.   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 11:40 am:    eric, flex or no flex, it's still ugly as sin.   eric Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 11:46 am:    sorry first pics didn't post...had to resize "ugly as sin"??? their just as boxy as the defender...however has more room and is more comfy on long drives.   eric Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 11:50 am:    sorry first pics didn't post...had to resize "ugly as sin"??? their just as boxy as the defender...however has more room and is more comfy on long drives.   Gil Stevens (Gil) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 11:55 am:    ho.. i believe in this instance its "no flex".. for real though, not to be a dick, but is that picture suppossed to be impressive flex? ive got a ford taurus wagon on my lot that has more flex that g-thang.. " G wagens come with diff locks front rear and center, stock, which makes up for the articluation" if i read that correctly, that is implying that the G does have some engineering shortcomings. after reading the last several posts about the "untouchablility" of g-wagen, im a little let down. I wonder though, what did MB design first, the suspension, which when they completed, they realized didnt do what it was supposed to do, hence the addition of the 3 lockers. Or.. did they design it with lockers from the get go, and therefore they realized that they didnt need ANY flex in the suspension design.   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:07 pm:    i don't know much abotu engineering shortcomings. but they had HUGE design shortcomings. LOL and it's boxy like a defender..? there are pretty boxes and ugly boxes.   Gil Stevens (Gil) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:12 pm:    LOL.. im not even going to get into pretty boxes vs. ugly boxes..   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:19 pm:    gil, it's very simple: the pretty boxes are pretty, and the ugly ones are ugly. LOL   Gil Stevens (Gil) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:25 pm:    very true.. and nobody wants to play with an ugly box.   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:27 pm:    G is ugly. Defender is ugly. Disco is ugly. Ugly is good on a truck. When I want pretty I look at something like a Ferrari 166MM Barchetta.   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:51 pm:    but blue, that wouldn't be a box would it?   pic Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 03:21 pm:      eric Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 04:07 pm:    here are the other two pics i tried to post but had to resize.... as far as the "ugly" argument brought up by ho Chung goes that is certainly personaly preference. I happen to really like to look of the G and i still miss the look of a IIA sitting in my drive way. If you are buying a car for its look then rovers are surely not it nor is the G..how does that saying go "the Italians design their cars to express their idea of female beauty..so do the british" the front setup of the suspension is pretty much identical to a Defender 90 the rear is a bit different design.. the truck's design dates to 1972 with a joint venture from steyr-puch (the company that makes the pinz) and MB. the trucks were designed with the diff locks, not an add on feature. (BTW MB has been making 4x4 since 1926)...the diff locks have been a standard feature since the beginning for all three models and variations.. if we are talking about which is the best 4x4 then we are both really up the creek compared to the UNIMOG...hardly anything comes close to that. ..But i'm not talking about that. I'm talking mostly about build quality. Its common knowledge that Land rover build quality is just about the worst in the industry of 4x4's, thats fine if you can fix the truck on your own but the new ones are so complicated now that you need sorts of tools to check simple things...this complication was included without any increase in quality of build..thats a problem if you depend on your truck. I'm not saying that the G beats the rover off road or the rover beats the G off road, all i know is that i can take my stock G anyplace i took my modified range rover. The trucks really do about the same and any difference isn't significant either way. The G may be "better" with certain trials, or the rover might..not the point. The difference is the build quality and the condition of the truck after it leaves the trail now and 20 years from now. THAT is the real difference. In my estimation the G can handle that, the early series yes, the defender yes but shows signs of trial use easlily, the new range rovers II and III and discover I and II, NO WAY...sure you can upgrade you rover with lockers, suspension mods lights or whatever, but you can never replace its build quality. So why would you spend the 80k, 40 or 30 for that matter on a truck with poor quality from the beginning, when you can get a truck that comes standard with diff locks and is built much much better...for the same amount of money now and probably less in the long run, unless like HO Chung pointed out, you are buying or not buying a truck based on looks.   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 05:00 pm:    i guess looks matter. you even admit that you like the look of the G. LOL   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 05:14 pm:    Well, I kind of like it...but then again I'm into ugly (with my trucks only). The G just screams "Pump up the volume"   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 05:18 pm:    I say pump up the volume   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 05:19 pm:    yeah baby...CHROME! pump it up pump it up   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 05:51 pm:    you know, that does look like a different box. LOL where's my gold watch!?!?!?!?!   eric Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 06:01 pm:    at least its metal and not plactic like the new RR. i'm not into the crome look on the trucks... yea ho chung i like the looks, but thats not really a big deal..ie i bought my truck sight unseen from germany and shipped it over.   Randall Smith Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 06:15 pm:    Eric That red G-wagon looks good, but that new model is weird. It's too weird for words. There's got to be something wrong upstairs if a person is seriously considering buying this as a car. This makes about the 50th time that I have seen your posts on a BBS somewhere, and it's the same subject: Range Rover is bad, G-wagon is good. My advise is to take a break from the trucks, and see if you can find some self help books on obsessive behavior. Randall   eric Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 06:20 pm:    i would consider repairing your rover every week obsessive behavior.. later...   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 06:26 pm:    ahhhh, ok then. you know, G is so nice and pretty. and with 3 locked diffs, it'll be impossible to steal.   chu Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 06:27 pm:    That's it! I'm off to the Merc dealer right now! chu   Gil Stevens (Gil) Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 07:11 pm:    for the record..the majority of rovers are not bad. its just that the bad ones are really really bad. my disco has been the most reliable vehicle ive owned yet, absloutely no issues.. no leaks.. no nothing. 64,000 miles and it has needed no warranty repair. but then again.. it is a 5-speed and we all know that the 5-speeds are the better trucks..   gp (Garrett) Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 08:16 am:    yeah that tire cover looks like it was lifted from a really bad conversion van crossing the mexican border. sure gives it the "bling bling" look though.   Greg Bright (Gregd2) Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 10:26 am:    Eric, I truly believe you are a crackhead. Only a crackhead or their dealer would like that hunk of shit. If you hate Rovers so much, get off the Discoweb! Go over to the G-wagon BBS and rant and rave to them! Oh, what's that? They don't let crackheads on their BBS? Funny how that works, isn't it? Greg '99 D2 that'll go anywhere that 2002 Crackhead mobile will go for a third of the cost!   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 04:28 pm:    Quote: '99 D2 that'll go anywhere that 2002 Crackhead mobile will go for a third of the cost! and not look ugly. LOL   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:07 pm:    If you want a M-B, this is the only way to go. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1836558804   eric Posted on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 07:24 pm:    here is my last post on here..i'm sure some of you will be happy...others may have or will check out the G wagen after they see it off road and or your land rover falls apart..thats what happened to me... as far as the disco going anywhere the G wagen can you obviously didn't read or chose not to understand my point..and that is quality of build and with all the years of "common problems" with the rovers you would think that they would solve them instead of invent new ones... i decided not to bring this up before but will bring it up now since you made that comment Greg.. (btw not once did i make any personal attacks on any of you..how the rover community changed since i started with it 6 years ago..) call the land rover dealership in sante fe new mexico and ask them about the course that is next to theirs..its the G wagen one...ask them how far their truck went on the course....didn't make it past the first obstacle. the land rover including disco two would make it past the other obstacles in the course except for the last one which cross articlates the axles even beyond a rover with a drop kit..which means that no wheels are getting traction..thus the need for a locker...the land rover's axles weren't designed for them and are not strong enough..just another example of poor quality engineering.   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 07:35 pm:    what's an older G costing you to import, or wherever you get them from? I'd love to cruise an older (translation: affordable & simpler) G as a trail rig.   Anonymous Posted on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 08:09 pm:    I'm suggesting all those posting here, gather round a campfire, grab an end of the 8 hose Hookah, draw deeply, then have a beer! it sounds like ya need s'more ego for your fav rig, more dope & a few more libations may let this anger die & opinions be treated as such. I see a lot of hostility here! DA card's says its gonna getnicer dis place, pass da spliff & send da $ to Cleo   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 08:13 pm:    I'm all for that.   eric Posted on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 01:26 pm:    i got my G from germany and found it on mobile.de...i imported the truck via a registered importer..cost of that with shipping was 15k...if you are looking for a trail truck i suggest you wait unitl 2004 or 2005 and import a 1979 or 1980 because it will be 25 years old or older..you can find a 1980 G wagen in germany for about 3000-6000 us shipping is about 1200..again 25 year rule no restriction...lots of restriction and costs if you are going to import something newer, check out the national highway safety page.. it gives a list of cars and trucks that you can import..http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ also for more info on the G wagen check out clubwagen.com or g4rce.net...the older 460 chassis is the easy to work on..the engine in it is the 280 found here and my 463 chassis has teh 300 engine in it..lots of torque and manual fuel injection not electronic...   Gil Stevens (Gil) Posted on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 01:31 pm:    fwiw.. i just took a 5000 mile 2002 G500 in trade on a 99 HSE. the guy couldnt stand the thing. The straw that broke the camels back was the fact that he broke 3 windshields in the last 2 months, all from road rocks thrown up. I tell ya what though, that damn thing is fast! err,.. well compared to a disco its fast.   eric Posted on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 02:04 pm:    there was a guy that complained about the G on the clubsite..turned out his biggest complaint was that the doors were to heavy, the G rode like a truck, the lever to fold down the rear seats was hard to pull down..turns out he is 160lbs and said he was going to upgrade to the Acura 4x4...somebody suggested he upgrade his 160 lb body..could it be the same person i wonder...never heard about the windshields being a problem...mine is the original with 103k on it now and doesn't have a scratch..actually my truck looks almost brand new..somebody the other eday asked if it was a 2000 G500...big shock when i said 91 300 GE ..did the windsheilds actually break or get scratched/dinged from rocks on the highway... interesting he traded in for a 3 year old truck when he had a brand new on...you must of had to pay him plus give the RR as the values of a 2002 G and a 99 RR are pretty different (correct?) at first glance sounds like you made out pretty well...you should post that truck on the clubsite lots of G fans are buying 2002 G when "tech innovators" (ie those that buy the latest and greatest just because) turn in their G when they realize that the G is really a true truck and not a typical SUV....   Gil Stevens (Gil) Posted on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 03:13 pm:    lol.. there were a couple more complaints to, one being the gas mileage...umm hello? whats a g weigh 6500 lbs? 300 horses? i wonder why it was turning 8 mpg?? the 12.5 the HSE gets will make him feel like hes drivin a subaru. These windshields broke.. and i guess for some reason they are like $1500 to replace (isnt that was glass coverage is for??) anyway.. yeah, the 99 HSE was $36,000 and I gave him $67,000 for the G500. i defintely think this guy would fall under "tech innovator" and visually im guessing he was about 160 lbs? (i didnt get the chance to put him on a scale ) maybe it was the same guy.. so, after driving the G500, hell yeah its a nice ride, but id still take an 03 range (and there is no bias here)   eric Posted on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 06:52 pm:    1500 from the dealer probably but its flat glass like the defender so it shouldn't cost that much, i paid 150 bucks for glass in my defender 110 (built-alike) 2 -door...any glass place could have replaced it for under 500 i would guess. so your selling the G500. then..i think the 'used' ones are going for about 67000 on the internet..if one is only going to keep a new range rover for a few years the 03 maybe a nice option but like most newer range rovers the electronics are pretty much a disaster...i'm anxious to see how the 03 RR fairs up after a few dusty roads and some water crossing...one is just asking for trouble with that rear door latch set up...have fun with the G while you own it..you'll probably make some $$ off of it...   Greg Bright (Gregd2) Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 04:14 pm:    (btw not once did i make any personal attacks on any of you..how the rover community changed since i started with it 6 years ago..) Eric, No, you just come on here posting that all Land Rovers suck and G-wagons are the greatest. WTF do you think is gonna happen? Do you think people are gonna sit back and let you tell them their trucks are POS and thank you for it? Get a clue man! We're all here because we're in to Rovers and think they are the best for what we do with them. You come on here spoutin' off about you used to be a Rover owner and now you're a G-Man, well go be a G-Man but don't think for a minute that I'm gonna sit back and let you preach to me about how much Rover sucks and that I should drive an EIGHTY THOUSAND DOLLAR HUNK OF SHIT instead! So, again I say, piss off you crackhead! Greg Bright   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 07:49 pm:    Hey Eric, While on our latest excursion, we happened to also visit Sante Fe.. After the Great Sand Dunes and Taos, it was a let down for a visit. Anyhow, I happened to take the 109 for an oil change to the LR dealer next door to Europa and saw that course. OK, it is higher than the LR course, yet, it only goes up and down. There was no side stuff. Actually, I wanted to take the 109 over there as it didn't seem any worse than the shit Rob and I did at 7-Springs. So, personally I don't see what the big deal is with it. Just a big rock hill with good traction. Hell the 109 is open diff without any traction control. LR guy must have had a hang over from too much Tequikiller - know I did. Good stuff in NM. Jaime   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 07:54 pm:    Did forget 1 thing - would have taken the spare off this time Rob! Of course now the damn door is so bent up from the shit we hit in CO it probably wouldn't matter. Jaime   eric Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 12:21 am:    you must not have looked at the entire course..first obstacle is rollers which require the diff locks. the second is the side slops-both sides back to back no stopping (the side stuff is behind the hills can't see it from the land rover dealership, third is logs to disengage the front locks for a tight turn. the forth is a the larger of the two hills flats out at the top the fifth and last obstacle is the second hill with the two holes that get you cross axle-needs diff locks for it...or a really aggressive suspension mod like the stage II or III. those holes are on the back side of the hill that faces the rode...no it doesn't 'look' any worse but does require lockers. message for greg and others angry. actually greg i really don't think rovers are a POS and no i don't think you should spend 80k on a G wagen drive what ever you like of course. you can get used G wagens much much cheaper..and really really cheap with 2004 hits (btw i know a guy that traded a 98 disco for an early 80's gwagen.) But for somebody to say that new land rover is the greatest thing ever made after land rover track record in quality is something that i questioned...rovers reputation for quality is something that i think 4x4 owners should take a look at before they spend that kind of money for a truck when there is an alternative in my opinion and experience is built stronger, more reliable, and with better manufacturing planning, processes and techniques (thats what i studied btw). It seems they are still using the same manufacturing philosophy and quality control they did when the made the series trucks, which was fine and worked perfectaly for the series trucks then and works just how it was intended today for its current owners. (btw i'm in process of looking for a series truck as a 'toy' or keep at my place in Arizona if I don't get a 80's G for to keep there)... if your happy with the land rover quality and feel comfortable buying a RR at 70k vs buying a German Made Benz (HUNK as you call it) at the same price then so be it but i don't think your logic would justify calling me a crackhead, greg, you seem really sensitive about you land rover and think that i called your land rover a POS..what happened the past few weeks...try to trace down an electrical short of something...anyways for those that love your rovers for the reasons i loved mine when i had it rover-on, for those that hate you rover for the reasons i hated mine at least you know there is an alternative (i didn't when i bought mine..always thought the rover "was the greatest thing ever made") and that alternative can be the same price as a new RR about the same price as a used on... For Bluegil who asked me about importing...if you do decide to get a g wagen that meets your needs the G wagen community is pretty friendly and eger to help, in fact alot on the G wagen BBS used to drive Rovers....if your looking for a totally solid truck now a guy named Dutch is selling his, he's the orginal owner since 1984 and is pretty anal about repairs... rover-on or G-on or for the jeep guys that come to visit and day dream on both the rover sites and the G wagen sites..jeep-on until you finally buy what you want...   Greg Bright (Gregd2) Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 09:04 am:    Eric, You just don't get it, do you? You may have a point about the new G-wagon being a viable alternative to the RR3. And you may have a point about older G-wagons being more affordable. But my point you still are not getting through your head. You don't come on a rover BBS and jump into a thread talking about one of the most incredible SUV's I (and others here) have ever seen and say it's crap and not get flamed for it. You don't come here and say that Rover hasn't changed any of their processes since they built the Series truck (which by the way is retarded, I seriously doubt they built the new frame and suspension of the RR3 the way they put together a Series truck). I have a lot of friends with Classics, D1's, D90's and D2's and all of them are great vehicles. If I could afford a full time off-road rig, I would buy a Range Rover classic in a heart beat. Yes, some have had problems, but for you to come here and make blanket statements about all Rovers is ridiculous. You've had one Rangie that has given you problems so now you've decided that the G-wagon is the answer for you, Great! But realize that if you come onto the D-web or any other Rover BBS for that matter, you're going to get called a crackhead, you crackhead! Greg Bright   Randall Smith Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 11:32 am:    Eric I for one am not angry at all. Just making observations about your posts, which has been going on for months, here and elsewhere. Same subject matter over and over and over and over. Not only you are obsessed with one thought, but you are a liar, and extremely predjudiced. Let's just see how long before it happens again. Randall   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 04:33 pm:    - you must not have looked at the entire course..first obstacle is rollers which require the diff locks. the second is the side slops-both sides back to back no stopping (the side stuff is behind the hills can't see it from the land rover dealership, third is logs to disengage the front locks for a tight turn. the forth is a the larger of the two hills flats out at the top the fifth and last obstacle is the second hill with the two holes that get you cross axle-needs diff locks for it...or a really aggressive suspension mod like the stage II or III. those holes are on the back side of the hill that faces the rode...no it doesn't 'look' any worse but does require lockers.- Eric, Well I spent about 2.5hrs wondering around most of which was outside waiting for my 109 to be finished. All I saw were 2 hills in a straight line that had rocks for the surface. When were you there last?? Possibly it has changed. Myself it was around May 15, 2002. Besides, it really doesn't matter. Greg is totally on the mark. It is a Rover BBS not a "Glockenspiel" as we jokingly call them BBS. Jaime   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 05:41 pm:    ug,, that poor door... i tell you you just need to put a tongue for a trailer hitch in there and let it act as a skid plate until it's fixed. 15 dolla man! ;) rd   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 10:43 pm:    hehe! Screw it at this point in time. At least you helped me out in figuring how to take the damn thing off, beating with rocks (well at least what we were seeing it on the ground), and making at least look somewhat decent. Hell, it still fits (well sortta) and the same amount of water leaks in. Jaime   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 04:41 pm:    Rover owners are white-collar red-necks, GET A G...   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 10:56 pm:    Yo-Annoass, Fuck you. Jaime   eric Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 11:56 am:    just so all know i didn't post that last comment...don't agree with the first part.. jamie i called europa to find out about roof racks and asked about the course..all is how i explained it in my first post regarding the track...the side stuff is not as high as the rovers but is at the same angle...don't know how you missed it...