| Author |
Message |
    
Bill Gilmore (Mountainjeep)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 02:35 pm: | 
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Can it be done? What is the upside/downside to starting with a rangie <$10,000 as a builder?
I would want around 4" of lift, all suspension if availible, run 33x12.5 tires, be able to armour it, and ability to do trail fixes without a LR mechanic as my co-pilot.
can this be done without winning the lottery? |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 03:31 pm: |
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hell yes..
start witha cheaper RR though, like a $3,000 one...
then 7 k in mods and you are there. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 03:48 pm: |
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check out some of the Rangies over here:
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/bbrr/indexmain5.htm |
Bill Gilmore (Mountainjeep)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 04:07 pm: |
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any actual info on aftermarket gear?
I looked on Safariguard...not sure if those kits are for Disco's or Rangies. i should also call RoverTym and see if Jon does Rangies as well...
Any other suggestions would be great.
What are the bad things about a RR? |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 04:40 pm: |
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I have a 91 RR.
4" of lift
locked
34.10.50 Swampers
lots of small goodies.
Compared to something like a Jeep, the buy-in cost was higher. Accessories are about 15%-30% more. But you can do just about anything you want to them. I've seen Classic Rangies on 35-38" tires. I've seen them with coil-over suspensions.
Good ones can be had for under $5k which is not bad for what you get. Your biggest pains in the butt will be the relative lack of horsepower, the ABS system if you get a 1990+, interior electronics (powers seats, power windows,etc), and a real lack of knowledge locally about the truck unless you live in a large city.
They are incredibly easy to wrench and understand. The shop manual is quite good, and there is a LOT of online help and support. Vendor support is excellent, and getting better all the time (Safarigard, Rockware, RoverTym, RoversNorth, Atlantic British, British Pacific, etc). Parts prices and support isn't too bad either depending on what you want and where you buy it. I buy all my parts from England since it's so much cheaper and just as fast. I can have anything in 2-3 days.
Good luck!
-P |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 05:10 pm: |
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basically everything for a Disco will fit a classic short wheel base. except for bumpers.
rd |
isaac fain (Searover)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 05:14 pm: |
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sure you can.
-turn the ignition on
-drive the fucker to the trail
-select 4low
-use your head
-impress your jeeper buddies
don't spend a dime in aftermarket parts until you've established two things:
a) base maintenance. Sorry to sound like a spoil sport here, but I think it's stupid to spend 3 grand in all this extra shit when the truck doesn't run right to begin with. I've spent between 2,500 and 3,000 to keep mine running and repaired in the past two years.
I for one am tired of this sentiment that a stock LR isn't fit for a gravel road without a complete suspension overhaul. This is total bull shit.
And for the record, I think three grand will buy you more trouble than you're prepared for. I'd shoot for a minimum of 5K.
sorry for the rant - i just get tired of seeing this "lego" parts discussion recurr over and over and over . . .
my .02
cheers - |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 05:29 pm: |
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true with the price, for someone who is new tothe scene it's hard to figure out if it's a deal or junk.
rd |
Larry Grubbs (Larryg)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 05:44 pm: |
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I've got a '90 RRC with about 3.5 - 4" of suspension lift. Just put 35/12.50/15 Goodyear MTR's on it.
Larry |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 06:01 pm: |
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Bill,
All have given good advice on RR. Rob especially as he is going from a well set-up Disco and starting over in his RR. One very important aspect to buying a RR is the rust issue. You're much better off in general to pay more for a truck from like NM, AZ, etc. where the shitty paint job from the factory hasn't allowed corrosion to start in the unpainted steel areas. Like any other LR purchase - what was the maintenance record. Good or none. And yes, they make very nice trail machines - getting there as well as on the trail.
Jaime |
JB
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 06:29 pm: |
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Larry Grub - please post some pics of your 90RRC with those 35's on. What axles will/do you run etc.
I say spend 5K to get a well documented/ serviced rover then modify after you have hit the trail stock and read the boards and looked at pictures.
Modifying is a journey, not a destination !! |
Andy Nichols
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 08:01 pm: |
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Issac - hey man - you've got it!
Bill, choose one carefully and then spend some time getting to know it. You could be in for a surprise having tricked it all out, then get let down by some basic stuff. My RRC needed a new X-fer case after only a coupla thou miles after I purchased it. So I've been spending time going front front to rear on all the basics. I put mudders on it 'for the weekend' and junked the air suspenders for coils/Bilsteins. After a major service, it now runs like a train. (not an AMTRAK one, either!)
The spend your cash on toys...That way you can get to see/talk with folks about their additions. I should be at MAR with Terrain Master stuff, in Oct. See you there? |
Ron A
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 08:24 pm: |
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Larry have you stuffed your tires yet to see how much clearance you have? I would be concerned about ripping up a new set of 35's with <4" of lift.
I tore up a rear set thinking I had enough clearance until I took it on the trail.
And Issac, I think your starting point is right on..
-turn the ignition on
-drive the fucker to the trail
-select 4low
-use your head
-impress your jeeper buddies
too funny...
Ron A |
Moe (Moe)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 09:54 pm: |
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Isaac is pretty much spot on, but I'm still waiting for part b) . . . the second thing you need to establish  |
Bill Gilmore (Mountainjeep)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 09:47 am: |
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Thanks for the info fellas:
As for finding a clean well maintained RR, thats the starting point for certain. I saw a 95 LWB the other day that was clean as hell, and had all RR mechanical papers for $11,5k. Are there any disadvsantages for the LWB, aside from it having a LONGER WHEEL BASE?
As for driving the fucker to the trail goes... well no shit! hee hee. I am not some fag poseur who doesnt know shit about wheelin. I AM just some fag Jeep owner who doesnt kknow shit about Rovers. Do not misinterpret my humor for dissing Jeeps. I LOVE my TJ, its a trail moster, but it just doesnt have enough room for me, my wife, my 6 month old, my dog, camping gear, food, and BEER (even with my roof rack). So I am trying to find myself a comfortable rig that can not only carry all of my shit, but also handle Colorado's toughest trails (Holy Cross, Carnage Canyon, Mt. Blanca etc.) and carry me there in comfort. I do not mean to offend anyone here, but a stock ANYTHING can't handle half the trails I regularly run. You simply have to be locked, lifted, and have 33" tires. period. My goal in this endeavor is to take a Land Rover (other than a D-90/110) up to Penrose, and run Indy clean while watching all the Jeeps snap axles, and flop on their sides. All the while siting in comfort in my LR.
I am curious about the RR drive train, and how it holds up to larger tires, such as the 35's that were mentioned earlier. is running such meats just asking for snap crackle pop on the trail? Also I have no problem trimming the body to accomodate tires. Wheeling ability takes prescedence over street looks any day in my book.
Are there any Denverites out there? Could use some local knowledge. I know I have seen at least 2 rangies around town with significant lift.
Who makes the best lifts for Rangies? I still need to call John at Rovertym.
Again, thanks everyone.
Bill |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 10:40 am: |
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check out www.rangerovers.net
ok, here its the problem with that year. it has viscus coupling center diff lock. you throw big tires on you are going to chew that up quick. there are other issues too.
you will need to fit an LT230 transfer case from a disco into there along with the correct linkage.
LWB is sweet stuff, that is the cool part. a SWB RR is lacking on storage. the 95 shares it's interior with the discovery's
the 1995 will have the air suspension i believe. it will sometime soon stop working due to cracked air bags. dont worry about it. you woukld have to abandon the setup anyway to get the lift you want.
also you have ABS and maybe traction controll on that year.
if you are going with a trail rig, seems like you would be best served buy a 1988 range rover. it has no ABS and comes with the manually locking center diff already as well as way less electronics. it does not come in LWB it is a 3.5l engine will be very difficult to find one in tip top rust free shape.
has anyone here dont the swap to a LT230? i am contemplating it on my truck as one of my first mod's before suspension or anything. that way i dont have to constantly worry about when it will go with the big tires i have in mind
rd |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 10:56 am: |
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Rob,
A guy from CO had a 4.6 engine installed at ECR. His RR had a LT230 in it in place of the B-W. Go to: http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Richardson.html
for info..
Jaime |
p m
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 12:06 pm: |
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I've got a '90 RRC with about 3.5 - 4" of suspension lift. Just put 35/12.50/15 Goodyear MTR's on it.
Larry, please elaborate.
I have seen a Rangie with 33x12.5/15 mudders at RR last weekend - it had about 8" of total lift, very substantial amount of body trimming, and it looked just about how much one needed for them to clear the sheetmetal.
I have 35x12.5/15 on my jeep, with 5" of lift, and with wheelwells that dwarf the rangie's, and they still rub.
peter |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 12:17 pm: |
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i know they can go in, i just want to chit chat on how difficult it was. it would be a job i'd do myself.
i wish i could ship my shit up the ECR though... believe me 
i like the idea of adding the low low in there while it's all ripped apart.
rd
p.s. jamie, you are a bastard,, i sdidn't realize you had the 4.6!!! |
p m
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 12:17 pm: |
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Bill Gilmore, check this - http://www.discoweb.org/rr2002/index.htm
there were many 100% stock range rovers that did some awesome stuff.
peter |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 12:47 pm: |
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thx rob. yeah, one of the earlier upgrades. should have done it in the 109 as well. hindsight always 20/20. the guy with the LT230 belonged(s?) to a club called Rover Riders in CO.. http://www.roverriders.org/
he and I talked about the 4.6 conversion before he did his. drop them a line.
Jaime |
isaac fain (Searover)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 12:54 pm: |
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Did someone say Jeep? you mean one like my buddy's??
http://www.sn-fab.com/projects/Brett/Brett07.jpg
I'm no brand whore. I happen to like the range rover because it suits my yuppie bastard lifestyle, and matches the wife's Jag. It also happens to be an extremely capable off-road vehicle in stock/stock-ish form.
The LT230 swap is relatively simple as I understand. You only need the xfer case and propshafts from an LT230 equipped rangie. You cannot (and do not want to) use the disco rotoflex shafts!! If you're planning on big lift, (3" or more), just go ahead and have some new props fabbed up when you swap the gear box in there.
Now keep all this in mind, but go ahead and wheel that borg-warner until it breaks, unless you are trying to go "big" all at once, but once again I will still try to advise anyone NOT to go this route upfront.
The B/W case will probably last longer than you expect it to. It performs better than an LT230 in "un-locked" mode - and not too far behind a locked LT230. It IS a torque sensing differential. I like to call it the "magic soup" diff. When it throws chunks, throw in something else.
I myself yearn for an LT95, but will start shopping for an LT230 to swap in here soon. Some believe the LT95 (manual w/ built-in tranfer case) from the early RR (and SIII, I think?) is stronger than the LT230/ZD-transmission combo. Something to think about depending on how wild you're planning to get.
I can't wait until we start on with the axle discussions ;)
Moe - LMAO - I'm busted :P |
Ron A
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 01:17 pm: |
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Bill it sounds like you have a very good idea on what you would like to do to a RR to make it run the more difficult trails of the west.
I�ve been working on my �90 RR for the last couple years to get it to the point where I can do most any trail and minimize the stresses on the vehicle. There are several trucks out here is Southern California that are all trying to meet similar goals and we�ve been working together to find the set-ups that fit our needs.
The answer to your original question �Can it be done?� is abso-damn-lutely. Like you I�ve built jeeps and still have a well built Bronco, but my favorite project is the RR (I started modifying it 8 years ago).
Here are just a few of the things that myself and the others I�ve worked with have found about modifying RR�s.
The 2 big disadvantages to the RR are that it�s heavier than hell and they all have big asses. The advantages are that the wheelbase is just about perfect for the trail and Land Rovers are arguably the toughest production rigs out there (of course this does account for some of that weight).
The easiest way to combat the weight issue is to compensate with the gearing. I run 4.75 on 35� MT/R�s and this combo of tire size and gears seems to work very well. I�m also a big proponent of keeping as much weight low and between the axels so I load all the heavy stuff in the cargo area.
As for the truck having a big ass, you�ll probably want to cut all the unwanted �protuberances� off the rear frame rails and the give it some lift so this becomes less of a problem. The combo I use now, and am extremely pleased with, is 3� bearmach springs, 2� spring risers and a 2� body lift from JB-S. I also have rockware shockmounts with 35� shocks (extended).
I�m right in the middle of working the drivetrain but am just now making some decisions on which way to go. Surprisingly there are a few things on this truck that I will leave until they give up the ghost. I have the original BW t-case, I run an ABS front tube with an ARB and stock 10 spline axels and I still have the stock driveshafts. This truck gets wheeled very hard so I guess I�ve just been lucky not to break them (grin). Yes they will eventually get replaced.
I�ve got a lot of components from JB-S (Rovertym) that I really like (radius arms, trailing arms, cross tract, draglink, etc.) and also a bunch from stuff from GBR (rear axel, Detroit, gears).
I do most all of my own wrenching on this truck and what I don�t have the equipment or expertise for I send it down to Eddie at LRU in Irvine to work on (Eddie also has a very capable RR).
While this is not the perfect trail rig, I think I�ve got a RR that�s going the right direction and will probably take another year or so to complete.
I don�t take a lot of pictures anymore but Ho snapped a couple from last weekend on the White Mt. trail.
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/bbrr/indexmain2.htm
There are three RR�s in this group and my favorite is the black one with 33� and 3� lift which can take you most anywhere you want to go. The white one with 33� procomps has a similar set-up to mine. The red one is just to make sure the beer gets to the top of the hill (haaaa haaaa).
Ron A w/ RR in transition� |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 01:23 pm: |
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Hey Ron,
How many miles on your 10-spine axles??
Jaime |
Ron A
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 01:52 pm: |
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165,000 on these axels and I pull them out and check every once in a while. A set of spares stays in the truck all the time (hee hee).
ron a |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 04:37 pm: |
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damn that is lucky.. so how long have you ran bigger than stock tires on the BW t-case?
did you gradually increase tire size or make a big jump?
you say you have ABS ron, what year is your truck? 1990?
my truck has 120k miles on it as it sits,
i'd like to throw on OME HD and some spring spacers and some 34" tires on it all at once.
as for knowing what i want, i had the disco for 3 years, built it and now i know the corrections i want to make.
t-case, i wasn't aware of having to swap shafts. good point, but you can make a RR rear shaft fit a disco. sao i think i could graft two shafts together.
later
rob |
Ron A
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 05:49 pm: |
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Rob this truck started with 245's and 265's but has over 100k miles on 285's (33") and stock gearing. I would agree that the BW probably won't last with 35's but we'll see.
This truck is a '90 and I've always thought the 90 to 94's are the best trucks to do a mild build-up and just drive it.
If I were to build another RR for the trails I would start with an 87-89 (of which I was going to do but it didn't make it home - still have the bump on my noggin).
a) they're cheap - you were right on Rob about paying $3000 or less for a rig.
b) no ABS - swivel is larger so you can put the SHD front axels in (if you desire).
c) LT230 already there
I ran with OME HD for several years and really like the setup. My personal opinion is that you can't get springs that are "too stiff" for a RR.
Something you may consider is a body lift. I am NOT a big fan of body lifts on most vehicles, but the body lift for RR's (and Disco's) is one of the best ways to get that extra clearance without over doing the suspension geometery. I wouldn't have believed it until after it was installed but it has turned out to be excellent.
Also one of those 'nice to haves' for a trail beast are beadlockers. If you've every had to re-seat your tires more than once on the same trail you know what I'm talking about. I air down to approximately 7-8 psi and it's nice not to have to worry about your tires getting pinched.
Ron A |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 06:00 pm: |
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people, stay away from the dangerous range rovers.
you know what it's like to be surrounded by half dozen range rovers on the trail? and get blinded by the reflection of that rear tail gate window thing?
that thing is blindening!!!!
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Ron A
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 06:15 pm: |
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haaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa, all I heard from Ho that day was him complaining he couldn't see around the RR's and we kept blocking his view. (LOL)
for those who think Ho only virtual offroads, I can tell you that the Big (BAD) Bird went up all the 'most' difficult obstacles with out a 'chirp'.
ron a |
isaac fain (Searover)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 06:27 pm: |
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on 32's, IIRC. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 06:29 pm: |
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ron,
PIZZA!!! PIZZA!!!! |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 06:35 pm: |
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so that back window was bling bling.. hehe
damn 89's are VC, ron , i have one.. kind of wish i had with the 88 because of it, but i got the bigger engine so i think thats a fair trade. besides i got a sick deal on the truck so i cant complain.
bump on the head? are you one who's rolled his truck and bargain rangie on the carrier. i remember reading that somehere.
did i meet you at Hole in the rock two years ago? you might remeber i flew in just to sit around and chew the fat for the weekend. this might be a different ron though. ho can clairify this.
later
rob |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 07:01 pm: |
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yes rob, small world. this is that dame ron. the red rangie ron at hole in da rock with the hat. |
Ron Ammon
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 07:10 pm: |
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Rob that's a 'yep' and a 'yep' and I can now laugh about the upsided down rangie ('87).
And of course I remember you at Hole in the Rock, that was a great trip.
And always remember "don't follow the guy with the lift and the dents, God only knows where he's going"... (LOL)
ron a |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 07:18 pm: |
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Quote:And always remember "don't follow the guy with the lift and the dents, God only knows where he's going"... (LOL)
well, thats' why i didn't go hells revenge night run.... i saw those FJ 40s get off the trailer. |
Norman Hall
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 06:40 pm: |
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Interesting Chit Chat Guys,
Back in Aus I ran a 1982 2 Door Rangie as my Play toy. 3 inch lift and 2 inch body lift. I needed all this and my guards cut out to fit the 34 x 10.5 x 16 Simex Jungle Trekker II's. The larger tyres were murder on the drive train so had to run Maxi Drive axles front and rear along with Maxi Drive Lockers to keep everything OK. the problem then became CV joints with a lot of my friends regularly breaking CV's. I have heard that GBR are selling upgraded CV's so something also to think of [not sure how much stronger they are]. The transfer case never missed beat.
Whilst in Aus the 3.5lt V8 is not a problem it is an easy upgrade to say a 4.4 Leyland V8. Here in the US you could buy the addaptor kit from Marks adaptors in Australia [very cheap but solid] and fit a 350 chevy short block. No more power problems. they tell me another option is to get a 3.9 block then say cranckshaft pistons etc from an old 4.2 and they fit nicely giving a good upgrade [I am considering this myself] as at altitude the 3.5 is breathless. 4.1 Ring & Pinon Gears have made a big power difference over the standard 3.54:1.
Here I am building up my 88 Rangie. I have already broken a rear axle with only 32 x 9.5 x 16 Simex Extreme Trekkers [I am running trekkers as my friend in AUS wants me to promote them for sale over here a bit, great tyres] on so am ugrading to Maxi Drive Axles Rear and Ashcroft in the Front [to try them out]. With the level of traction you seem to get over here I would not be trusting standard axles with Large tyres for very long. Also if you do it when you put say an ARB air locker in then you can buy the 24 spline locker and not have to worry about buying new side gears and incurring extra expense [about $180 each end] when you upgrade [which you will do eventually]
Regards The Aussie |
p m
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 11:36 am: |
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Ron, Ho,
which trail are you talking about?
is there a gnarly obstacle near Big Bear?
peter |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 01:16 pm: |
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oh yeah peter, there were 3 gnarly obstacles in front of me at all times. LOL |
p m
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 01:22 pm: |
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lol
seriously, which is a difficult trail there?
i heard that White Mtn. is pretty good - but Larry Samons didn't sound too thrilled.
ho, that tequila... after 5 beers... in the morning, i couldn't even think of driving anywhere. i left the camp around 9 am, and only forced myself to drive home around 11. took my time at a car wash in arrowbear
peter |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 01:29 pm: |
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we did white mountain. there were some optional climbs that made me realize oil level was low. LOL
you finished the tequila in the morning ?????
i dont' know larry samons well, but from what i hear, there isn't much that will thrill him in big bear. |
p m
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:32 pm: |
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tequila?
no.
maybe, i should have...
larry samons isn't easily impressed, that's true
i begin to wonder about the white mountain shit. never been there. looks like my bro is booking up a cabin there for the labor day, will go check it out!
peter |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:40 pm: |
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peter, if you want the same obstacles i had, you should go with ron, alan, and scott. LOL |
Ron A
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 03:08 pm: |
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man am I'm glad I didn't stay up and drink with you guys (LOL)
Peter, 'gnarly trail in big bear' is a bit oxymoronic I suppose. For a slightly modified LR there are some trails that can be very challenging. John Bull should be fun for a couple of weeks after the H1�s threw all the large rocks onto the trail (someone will have pushed them out of the way by the end of the month).
White mountain is a good trail with a great view over Lucerne Valley. It�s kind of eerie because a good portion of it was burned in �98 and has been closed until recently. The fun way to go is 3N11 from Big Pine Flats to 3N17 and turn left (west for a couple miles) this will take to the lookout on white mt. When you leave white mt and head back the way you came you will see �white knuckle hill� going off to the left.
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/bbrr/DCP_0104.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid27/p187dd84745d57fe1b74fc275d250f169/fd78ee8d.jpg
It�s a bit steep and you need to stay on the high side about half way up (gets soft). It�s off camber and there are no trees if you decide to go over (�bout 800� down).
Go back past 3N11 (where you enter) and you begin a pretty good climb up the hill.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid27/p8dbc5c73fad2257c7341291537259ad8/fd794181.jpg
once you come over the top you�ll get to the �whoops� this is always fun to watch stock vehicles try to get through a series of 3� holes.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid27/p246cb2c94096b206697bba368bb47965/fd793cc0.jpg
The last obstacle is �suicide hill�. There is a by pass to the left but if you want to give your vehicle a test you go up the right side.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid27/p4d1a50ef969e3f043fe2cbb5843f5b84/fd7914b5.jpg
A vehicle with locker(s) or an experienced driver can make it up with out too much difficulty. But if you�ve got some balls (or you just don�t give a shit about your truck) you can drive up the �face�. In the picture you see the trail going up, but at about 3/4 of the way the trail goes to the right around the �face�. The �face� is about a 3� ledge with no real good way to approach. This is a good place to test your nerve.
So Peter when you�re ready to give it a try let me know and I�ll meet you up there.
pictures courtesy of Ho and Andrew Clarke
r-a |
Ron Ammon
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 03:12 pm: |
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if you want to veiw all of Andrew Clarke's photos go to:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291559395
r-a |
hendrik
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:11 pm: |
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SWAP FOR THE LT230:
Hi Ron,
just last weekend my 89RRC received the LT230. The B/W box had excessive play on the front output flange and probably more bearing failure.
I´m glad I have a friend who is a mechanic and has a 4-post lift (?) so we could comfortly work under the Range. It took a hole day and I were not allowed to return again this year (because I´m poorly organized and haven´t purchased everything necessary; exhaust parts etc). Else the swap is straightforward. Be sure you get a LT230 with High/Low Shifter unit for automatic Discos. If you want bigger tires a Defender LT230 (1.41:1 high ratio) is worth considering. Handbrake assembly wasn´t complete on my t-box. The later ones with direct entry activatng cable (rather than linkage on the right of the box) work well. The gearbox mounts can stay. Exhaust can remain. Time to change the automatic gearbox filter screen (once exhaust and crossmember are removed). Little difficulty was to mate the LT230 with the autobox, even with a jack specially made for the purpose (alignment can be tricky and the t-boxes are heavy). The rear propshaft is correct, the front on must be shortened by 3.5cm (distance between flanges before 67.5cm and after 64.1cm on my rig). Be sure you use loctite on the bolts that hold autobox and t-box together (some reach the oil inside an leak otherwise). The High/Down lever is on the same location. The console inside the car doesn´t have to be removed (no matter what the Haynes manual says). Removing the B/W box is PITA (you feel/hear how all the cables and hoses strech 2feet before you under the hood) because you have to remove the gearbox mounts from the chassis on both sides and lower the Gearbox (having removed the fan fist) until it does not foul the floor and can be slided back enough. The LT230 fits better in this respect. Good thing is to get a new extension sleeve for the ZF-autobox mainshaft for 50$ as it has longer slines and can be used together with a cross drilled input gear on the LT230 that was introduced in the late 90ies and is a very very sensible modification for earlier t-boxes as it also makes use of the entire splin length of the gearbox mainshaft (but you must be sure how many teeth the gear must have, there are two or three different ones)(alternative is a different PTO-cover with an oiling provision. This was used by Rover in the mid.90ies (early 300tdi were seen with it here; the autobox shaft extension can stay then). Do not grease the extension sleeve of the autobox. I was toild it could prevent oil from getting to the splines an this being one cause of the gearbox mainshaft wear that affects vehicles without cross drilled gear (or that oiling thing).
Hope that helps a little. Definately not a job for 1 person and to do on the parking lane.
The LT95 is an extremely strong gearbox. Very strong. But it only has 4 gears and the overdrive is hard to get by (besides one I bought leaked from the shifter pin and snared when shifting; in spite of being new). And it tends to leak more than the later transmissions (although MUCH better in this point and much better design than the series boxes). I like it much, but prefer the ZF/LT230 assembly for my everyday vehicle. The B/W box is not as strong as the LT230. Quiet and comfortable it may be, but I´ve seen quite a few with cracked casing (on the domed rear, where the PTO-hole on the LT230 would be). I´ve never been sure the visco unit wasn´t too stiff, I prefer the open center diff; if I get silly (hard to beat the current status says my wife) I get a Quaife as substitute for the center diff to have the best from two worlds. Besides the chain of my B/W probably has slack and maked clonks on the casing on overrun shortly; and there was some whine at certain speed so after all the LT230 is not much louder. Besides it is as said tougher and there are 4 ratio options for the high range, and aftermarket offers a 30% lower low-range gear (don´t know about its quality), and you could use a PTO if desired.
Well then - go ahead.
(If you are (or will be so later) after a bigger engine [4.6] it would have been easier and cheaper to use a <´88 RRC as a base as this already has the LT230 and the engine would be changed anyway (new short 4.6 engine are repetedly advertised in the mags).
regards,
Hendrik |
Larry Grubbs (Larryg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:41 pm: |
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I already posted this in a previous thread. But what the hell. Here are pics of the stuffage.
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Larry Grubbs (Larryg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:46 pm: |
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And the other side.
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Larry Grubbs (Larryg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:50 pm: |
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There are too many Naysayers out there. Everybody told me it couldn't be done. Just Do it! I really only have a 4" lift. No body lift. The only rubbing is on the inside of the rear wheelwell. It will not damage the tires. I will be lengthening the bumpstops soon. I run 12" Bilstein 7100's on all four corners. My suspension is very similiar to John's at Rovertym, except no Heim joints and no body lift. I did have to cut 3-4" out of the rear fenders to make these tires fit.
The truck is still very stable off-camber and it still fits in the garage. A definite plus of the Range Rover versus Disco and Defender.
Larry |
Ron A
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 06:28 pm: |
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Hendrick, thank you for the write up, you probably just talked me out of doing the job in my garage.
I have also seen a couple B/W with cracked cases and know a few where the viscous gave up (one guy drove his RR backwards in Moab after the B/W vc gave up). So it's time to get serious about replacing the 'weak link'.
Thanks for the info.
Ron A |
Ron A
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 07:11 pm: |
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Larry your truck looks fantastic, thanks for the pictures.
Looks like you�ve got exactly what Bill Gilmore originally was asking about in a trail ready (i.e. beast) RR.
That�s a nice job of clearing the panels but I�d guess you had to cut into the door pretty heavy which will expose the space between inside and out. Were you able to close this back together?
Thanks again for the pics, it�s nice to see someone else cut the daylights out of their classic (LOL).
Ron A |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 07:32 pm: |
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yes, very interseting write up. makes me wonder if i can do this job, even with help. did you have access to any machine shop tools in order to fab your own missing parts?
need to pour over the details and pull out the manual and ask myself why. hehe.
this might be one of the most informative threads i've read on discoweb in a while.
rd |
p m
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 08:04 pm: |
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Larry,
was that you who posted on Disco Tech BBS that you've got 35" or 37" with 4" of lift on a RRC?
peter |
Larry Grubbs (Larryg)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 02:24 am: |
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I did post this on another thread under the Range Rover Tech section of Discoweb.
Larry |
p m
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 12:29 pm: |
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i remember seeing a post mentioning 35 inch tires and 4 inch suspension lift on a range rover as a done deal, always thought there was something else left behind.
peter |
Ali
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 07:00 pm: |
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Hendrik,
Can you email me? Got some questions.
Thanks. |
hendrik
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 06:23 am: |
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Ali, I`ll mail you.
As for the front driveshaft. Actually II would recommend to shorten the original shaft or use the one from the Disco I V8 cat when putting in a LT230 into a 3.9 RRC. (see posting in Discovery section)
Hendrik |
Larry Grubbs (Larryg)
| | Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:56 pm: |
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That was me who posted 35's with only a 4" lift. Actually I really only have the Rovertym 3" lift. I have his 20.5" springs in the front and his 3" springs with 2" spacers in the rear. That's it.
Larry |
Bryan Wainscott (Bwainscott)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:12 pm: |
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Hey Bill I live in Denver as well and if you want to Carnage Creek you better get at least a three inch lift and some 33's to feel comfortable. I have an '89 Rangie and my friend does as well. We ran Carnage in his '89 with the 4.6 conversion and only a OME SHD lift and 31's, but let me tell you VERY SCARY. Anyway my Rangie isn't all tricked out like everyone elses here but she is ready for the trail with OME MD lift, Rancho 9000s, and some Goodyear MT/R 32's. Let me know if you want to hit some trails. |
Bill Gilmore (Mountainjeep)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 04:07 pm: |
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wow..been away for a while...didnt realize what a thread this would become.
Great insight guys, thanks much. I'll let ya know when the project gets underway.
Bill |
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