Disco III "spy photos"

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Author Message   mark Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 08:48 am:    Alright guys, Imagine my excitement when I went to peruse one of my favorite websites for new vehicle info and found the heading "spy photos of 2005 Discovery". Here's the link - look familiar to y'all? http://thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5147&sid=178&n=156 Mark   Dave Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 08:50 am:    Bend over and say "ahhhh".   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 09:07 am:    I really hope that is a mis-print. Ford just has to shove the exploder down the throat of every country of the planet. "No Boundries" my ass. I get pissed very time I see Bill Ford on TV talking about his love for everything auto. Paul   Robert Sublett (Rubisco98) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 09:08 am:    Say it isn't so   Dave M. Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 09:14 am:    The new Disco using an "Explorer" frame is not necessarily a bad thing... it's what they DO with that frame that matters. Simply rebadging the Explorer, throwing some lights on the roof and cramming it down our throats as a genuine Rover will simlpy not do.   Doug W Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 09:23 am:    There is snow on the ground? How old is the pix?   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 09:50 am:    IFS and IRS included from the looks of that picture. What's the triangle thing that goes from the bumper to the front IFS? Is that they new front rock avoidance system. It touches a rock and shut the truck off preventing you from further damaging it   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 09:55 am:    Good thing that Jeep will still be around..... I hope.   Mark Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 11:49 am:    I don't think this is the body - hopefully the Explorer body is simply a disguise as insinuated. However, it is disturbing that the Disco's new underpinnings fit so well with the Explorer body. I'm not sure why they printed this photo if it's the underbody being tested - how the hell are we supposed to see that! At any rate, it looks like Land Rover will be going to puny lugnuts like on the new Range Rover. Mark   jmon Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:32 pm:    that was scary   Greggo Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:34 pm:    This DIII does not look like anything I've seen in the mock-ups or static sit-in's The version of the DIII that I've seen has the same stylings of the existing DII. LOTS of changes, no more alpines etc... but major stylings are the same... I think ford is not that stupid... but, I may be wrong.   mark Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:47 pm:    Greggo, Please tell us more about the DIII mock-ups that you've seen. Is the square-ish shape retained? Does it appear to continue the "large greenhouse" window/seating combination? Approach and departure angles better? TIA, Mark   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:53 pm:    "I think ford is not that stupid..." Well if the generally accepted rumor of the 2005 Disco going to IFS/IRS and uni-body are true then yes they are stupid. Why play follow the leader in mass mall mobiles. People put up with LR's because they're capable not because they're reliable (hint on what needs messing with). If I want an IFS/IRS AWD vehicle I would have picked up an X5 or one of the many other good on road poor off road vehicles... eh... Al :::having nightmares of the day a Prada edition Land Rover is made::: '99 D2 '02 X5   Sus (Susannah) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:54 pm:    I don't think that will be right. It's just an Explorer on steroids...Ford should atleast keep badging and SOME of the body style the same! They didn't do TOO bad with the Jags and Aston Martins...and I think the new Volvos are great.   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:00 pm:    Yeah.... the new Volvos that will share the same platform as the new Taurus? The Volvos that are less safe than BMW's, MB's and Lexus vehicle (although the Lexus may soon fall from grace too). Volvo is also now selling cars based on an idea of safe vehicles but they appear to no longer strive to make the safest vehicles. Go figure.   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:18 pm:    I won't buy another Land Rover if they switch them all over to IFS/IRS and turn them into Fords. SO I hope Jeep still has their act together when my current Disco finally falls apart. Which I hope doesn't happen.   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:21 pm:    The only Jeep I would buy right now is the TJ Rubicon. I also hope MB keeps the G-wagen in the current form.   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:23 pm:    is new Disco based on 1) advances in automotive technology 2) cost cutting (pursuit of profits) 3) better handling for the mall crowd 4) Ford following mainstream (indy suspension) 5) or raw stupidity? I think it's a combination of #1 through 3. But seeing a pic of an Explorer under the heading "2005 Disco" is just plain scary. I have a Disco & an Explorer in my garage....does that mean I have 2 Disco's?   isaac fain (Searover) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:24 pm:    yes - ford is set to fotch up everything. if the freelander is any sign of things to come, just consider LR a dead marque. having said that . . . re: IFS/IRS - baja racers have been using it just fine for the last couple decades, and the pre-runner toyota crowd can actually do pretty well on the rocks with an open diff. You can get just as much "articulation" with an independant setup as you can a live axle; it's all in the length of the control arms. if the use the cross-valved air spring concept from the RR, you might just wind up with a more capable stock vehicle, albeit at the price of being exponentially more difficult to modify. And the real pisser here is that since there is no longer a frame, it will be hard to find a good place to relocate the arm mounts on the unibody - the whole structure is CAD designed to be rigid in just the right places. oh, and about that frame . . . . didn't ford (much as I dislike their global domination thing) just narrowly avoid an entire shutdown of the Discovery line from a bankrupt FRAME vendor? cheers   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:31 pm:    kind of gives you a new respect for your old D1 dog, doesn't it?   Dave Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:50 pm:    Last time I checked, Freelander has been around for many more years than LR has been owned by Ford. Not that I defend either in this case..   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 03:09 pm:    ya, I think the Freelander was a BMW idea. Yes AL, the Rubicon is what I was talking about. Not the cherokee or the liberty. G-Wagon is another option but, tooo much money for one of those.   Dave M. Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 04:50 pm:    By Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:00 pm: Edit Yeah.... the new Volvos that will share the same platform as the new Taurus? The Volvos that are less safe than BMW's, MB's and Lexus vehicle (although the Lexus may soon fall from grace too). Volvo is also now selling cars based on an idea of safe vehicles but they appear to no longer strive to make the safest vehicles. Go figure. Other way around actually. The next Taurus and the new, larger, Ford500 will be based off the Volvo S80 platform which also carries just about every new Volvo. Ford is starting to figure out how to best use it's underling brands. After ignoring Mazda for years, they shifted development of ALL new 4-bangers, and the new "Focus" platform to Mazda. Let's face it, the Protege is 3 times the car the focus is and the Focus is Ford's best small car effort to date. that new Focus platform will carry a lot of cars in the future (Focus, protege, Volvo 40's, Mondeo) I don't think they fought so hard with the Discovery's frame supplier just to do away with them a year later. I'm going to try and be optamistic. Ford has done a good job with Volvo, they have done a great job with Aston, and a decent job with Jag. I'll take a wait and see approoach... as opposed to the sky is falling approach. :-D   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 09:31 pm:    Crap Dave Since there is no CDL on the new-er Disco and the Defender is still not available on these shores, plus the new Rangie has no *real* frame and runs IFS/IRS as does the Freelander I think the sky HAS fallen. As for the argument on IFS/IRS being as good as live axles I disagree. IFS is much more complicated than it needs to be but then the axles on my D2 are also more complicated than needed. And why do I always hear about Toyotas being fitted with live axles in place of the IFS? But then if you like IFS or IRS there are lots of options for you out there.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 12:30 am:    Dave M, Ya know, that sounded good, but.... it's wrong. The Focus is the WORST American-made car since the early 80's... it has had more recalls already than anything in the past decade or so. The front-end collapses on itself, it has lots of brake problems, etc. etc. etc. FWIW..... -L   muddyrovr Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:03 am:    Explorers are crap. Big pieces of crap. You can't wheel in crap. I hope this isn't so........   Dave M. Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 08:13 am:    Actually Leslie, I said the Focus was Ford's best small car effort to date and it still sucks compared to a 3 year old Mazda design. (Protege) Since the Focus is clearly the best Ford can do in that segment... no wonder they've passed off development to Mazda.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 08:31 am:    Dave M., You also said that new Focus platform will carry a lot of cars in the future (Focus, protege, Volvo 40's, Mondeo)... which I truly doubt, given how much trouble the Focus platform has cost them... they'll be trying to dump it, not build everything else on it.... IMHO, FWIW..... -L   petern12 Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 09:34 am:    Let's hope that it was just something as innocent as the Exploder being "cross-examined" by the LR team. Here's a much more positive report from "The Land Rover Chronicle", the SWB w/ the Jag's V8 looks to be the hot setup: "Land Rover Discovery Series III From The Land Rover Chronicle: A new Discovery is penciled in for 2005. The Discovery III will use an all new platform which will be shared with the Defender replacement also for 2005 and the baby Range Rover in 2006. Key features: expect more ground clearance, higher approach and departure angles, better on road handling and better off-road ability. The price for the new Discovery will remain very close to the base price of the outgoing model, but the base petrol engine ( V8 ) will be replaced with a modified Jaguar V6. This new V6 will deliver around the same bhp with slightly less torque than the V8 it replaces. Of course the new V8 will also be from Jaguar and will command a higher price of around $5,000 more than the V6. A new line of Turbo diesel engines will appear ( although probably not in North America ), the new joint venture Ford/Peugeot 2.7 V6 TD will produce around the same bhp as the petrol V6, but with almost as much torque as the petrol V8. The exterior for Discovery will be a revolution rather than an evolution. Key features: Rear mounted spare tire will move inside, new split tailgate similar to Range Rover's, optional long wheelbase, optional air-suspension, overall look much sportier. We have also had reports that the Discovery Series III will feature a monocoque platform based on engineering experience from the Range Rover mk. 3. The Defender will also feature a monocoque platform by 2005. Some may argue that moving the Discovery over to a monocoque platform will destroy its off-road ability. However, we feel that it can only enhance things; many magazines have found that the Range Rover mk. 3 is actually better off-road than the Defender in many circumstances, and if this technology moves over to the Discovery, it too will hold the same sort of off-road prowess."   petern12 Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 09:48 am:    Report from the "Land Rover Chronicle" on the next Freebie below, hopefully more annecdotal evidence that Ford is not anywhere in the picture for at least the immediate future of LR, saved for access to the the Jag's parts bin. Cross-breeding is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as you know how to pick one which will actually immprove your own bloodline... "The Land Rover Chronicle: The new Freelander due for 2004 will not be a rebadged Ford Escape/ Mazda Tribute. The next Freelander will share Range Rover's air suspension and will be ready to do battle with a new smaller BMW X3, and new Mercedes ML230. This new suspension option also modified from the upcoming 2004 Series III Discovery would increase ground clearance to around 250 mm under Freelander's front axle, improving ground clearance but the suspension is also active and should the vehicle become high centered the sensors would automatically extend the wheels to regain traction. Freelander II could possibly use a new upcoming Volvo SUV platform. Volvo has announced they will add three new models to their lineup over the next five years, new Volvo models will range from small cars to SUV's. Freelander II will have a choice of engines starting with a four and six-cylinder diesel along with four and six cylinder petrol versions. Top of the range could include a supercharged six from the upcoming Jaguar X-type "R" ( The "R" version's of Jaguar's range are supercharged version's of the standard models such as the "M" models are from BMW ). Land Rover is working flat out to re-engineer Jaguar's entire line of engines for future models."   Mike Talley Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 09:55 am:    Oh my heck........I think I'm going to be sick. I'm the only member of my family that doesn't own an Explorer (not anymore I guess). I really enjoyed that fact that if I wanted sometime away from the "Explorer Clan" I could just go off road and they couldn't follow me. I guess I will have to really pamper my baby so she will run FOREVER!!!!   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 10:08 am:    I don't think I like the phrase "shared with Defender replacement"...   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 10:11 am:    I don't know if that "Land Rover Chronicle" stuff was to make us feel better to just more sick? Split tailgate? Tire mounted inside? I take it that has to do with the IIHS tests? Everyone with an XJ that I know has relocated their rear tire to either the roof or on a PITA rear door carrier. And I love this quote... "Some may argue that moving the Discovery over to a monocoque platform will destroy its off-road ability. However, we feel that it can only enhance things; many magazines have found that the Range Rover mk. 3 is actually better off-road than the Defender in many circumstances..." yeah.... okay.... I also remember how many awards the Ford Focus received from magazines. Here's some news... stock brokers lie, CEO's lie, and magazines lie, all for the same reasons. Take it all with a grain of salt.   Dave M. Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 10:13 am:    Leslie, There is an all new "small car platform" being designed by Mazda and Ford. This platform is referred to as the new "Focus Platform" and will premier sometime in 2004. This new platform will carry the NEXT generation of the... Focus Mondeo Some sort of Focus sized soft-roader Volvo S40 and V40 Mazda Protege Jaguar X-Type successor This is not a guess, it's fact right now and not even a secret. Also, I work for a marketing vendor of PAG so I can weed out the rumors. I'm trying to find out more about the Land Rover end right now, but my contacts are mostly Volvo related. Hope that clears some things up. :-) I'm not trying to be combative or argumentative, jsut trying to put out the facts.   Dave Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 10:17 am:    I loathe how the LR mags continue to say the new Rangie outperforms the Defender. Anyone, who says the Rangie outperforms the Def offroad, is already bought off by LR and Ford. Sure it performs better on road and as 1000 times more comfortable. But drive that thing through a stream crossing, narrow alley, or mud hole, and it would never make it.   Sus (Susannah) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 10:21 am:    I don't want the tire to 'move inside'...I know that's a small thing compared to bodystyle and chassis/frame...but it bothers me!   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 10:23 am:    Rangie has traction control... Give the little 90 some lockers and watch it hand out an off road ass whoopin to it's bigger step-brother...   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 10:25 am:    Don't the new(er) Defenders produced in the UK have TC? I know the D110's did in some package.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 10:25 am:    Okay, that'll be a totally different vehicle then (hopefully! lol)... I was referring to the current Focus, not something being planned. I'll be honest here: let the companies do what they want. If they come out with something great, then great. If it's not "our" thing, then, the wife gets the new one and I get to play with the older one. If there's really nothing out there that suits you, built it yourself. IMHO, FWIW..... -L   Eric Pena (Evalp) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 10:30 am:    I would not say the rangie would not make it (orig. by Dave). I drove a new rangie on a preaty good trail and had no problems except a tire blow out. At the same time if you took and truck for $20k stock and put $50k into upgrades (=$70k, a new rangie) it would go anywhere and do anything too! I have no doubt in my mind Ford is going to fuck Land Rover up. It sure is to bad.   R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 11:00 am:    Unless I'm mistaken, that IS a Ford Explorer. Just because some lady selling a photo says it is a Disco because she says it came out of the LR factory... Did she stop to ask if the people driving it were "engineers"? Anyway, it MIGHT be a Diso system in diguise, but as far as the photo is concerned, that is a plain old Explorer with the 17" wheel factory option. My only consolation is this, that Ford also owns Volvo and Jaguar and they have not ruined them yet. But here is my proposal, (and in my dreams I'm halfway serious about it.) Lets get all the LR owners from around the world to buy LR from Ford! Then we'll hire BMW to run it for us. http://buy_landrover_away_from_ford.mrbaileyshistory.net Can I get any sponsors??   Curtis N (Curtis) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 11:19 am:    I'm with R.B on this. Just because a team of "engineers" leaves the factory of a Ford owned LR facility in - of all things - a Ford means absolutely nothing. Hell, they could have just brought the Explorer over so that the "engineers" could get a feel for what sells in the US. Although...that is scary in itself. Curtis   R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 12:15 pm:    OK, here it is now: Your Resource For Anti-Ford Ownership of Land Rover http://antifordownership.mrbaileyshistory.net http://landrover.mrbaileyshistory.net   Dave M. Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 12:57 pm:    I wouldn't mind it if some of those Ford truck engines made it into the next Disco. The 5.4 liter V8 is a nice lump. • Horsepower: 260hp @ 4500 rpm • Torque: 350ft-lbs. @ 2500 rpm   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 01:26 pm:    Personally I would be happy with something that had less weight but anything that keeps oil in and won't need a new top end before 40k miles would work. I don't ask for much   Dave Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 01:30 pm:    I almost want Ford to do their best. I wouldn't mind seeing my DII appreciate rather than depreciate... I'm partially kidding.   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:01 pm:    For Sale: Used 98 Land Rover Discovery LE. Pre BMW and Pre Ford. 49,000 miles some mods and minor body modifications. Solid frame, solid axles, and a center locking diff. $50,000 OBO.. Bring cash. really though, if they are going to put a new engine in the Disco how about a "no electrics" diesel option so that some of us can have some fun.   Camille (Gwagenbabe) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:12 pm:    Yuck... (barf) I hope the G doesnt end up like that.. but I've heard rumors that the 3 Difflocks will no longer be standard, butonly options on the most expensive ones, and that it will no longer look like a breadbox, but more curved & rounded like the ML Class... *C   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:15 pm:    Uh... Eric BMW took over Land Rover in 1995 (I think), so $50?! You're out of your mind! Since it's a BMW Land Rover (even if it's no longer made) it's ONLY worth $45k. Not a penny more.   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:19 pm:    Ya, but, I don't think that the first Disco had BMW influence did it? I think their influence started with the Freelander and Series 2 Discos correct?   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:22 pm:    I was joking But I don't know. I don't think it had much of an influence. I think even the Freelander was well under development by Land Rover when BMW took it over.   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:30 pm:    The funny part would be that even if someone was dumb enough to pay me that much I probably wouldn't sell it.   petern12 Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:42 pm:    2005 DEFENDER Why buy the new Rangie, when for roughly the same price, you can buy a Defender MC(Mall-Crawler) AND a Defender RC(Rock-Crawler)...... the good news are that they will stick with ladder frame and the styling will be as square and aerodynamic as the factory it'll come from... The Land Rover Chronice: A new Land Rover Defender was in the works to be introduced for 2003. According to reports though the replacement for the new Defender is not the priority it was and the release date has been pushed back to 2005, as Land Rover will focus on a new Discovery and Freelander. Defender will stick with a traditional ladder-frame chassis and will be offered in many body styles and choice of off-road abilities. There will be a Lifestyle Defender with independent front and rear suspension for better on road abilities but also offer excellent off-road abilities, along with full leather and power everything. There will also be the classic iconic Land Rover Defender with incredible off-road capabilities. This model will use independent front suspension and a live-axle in the rear for utility and military applications.   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:46 pm:    GASP!!! This is old news right? Please tell me this is old. The British military has said it didn't want the new Defender and Ford/LR is back to the drawing board. IFS!?! WTF! Don't do this to me!!! Al ::: twitch, twitch :::   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 02:48 pm:    Yup, looks like I'll be getting a Rubicon to go with my Disco..   Greg Davis Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 03:10 pm:    From what I have read, the "Lifestyle" Defender was the last straw for the UK military. That was what prompted the delay of the new Defender, since the Military said "No Way". Ford is now having to rethink it's approach for the Defender, so I think the above article is old.   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 03:14 pm:    Thanks Greg! I almost destroyed my keyboard when I bit down on it as I went into a seizure from that story. :\   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 03:21 pm:    Dude, is the "Lifestyle" Defender going to come complete with rainbow stickers and pink triangles on the back?   petern12 Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 03:51 pm:    Ahh.. such as the ill-fated "Challenger" Project. Although the British Military has been an important customer, LR has Defenders serving in dozens of countries around the world and will continue to cater to the military market irrespective of the British military's decision (it'll hurt A LOT no doubt). Furthermore, LR has lost a lot of military market share in recent years to the upstart Nissan Patrol. At the same time on the civilian front, LR needs to expand the volume/public appeal(read IFS?) of the Defender. Meeting Ford's "profitable in '03" marching order won't be easy. I'm sure there'll be lots of consultation with the military brass around the world for the military specs Defender, as well as numerous "consumer clinics" for the "wish list" for the civilian version (these are always deadly for wheelers, as questions like "why not IRS as well?" "will there be a Channel edition with the logo embossed on the burl wood shift knob?" "Will a Sport Package with chrome bull bar, 20" chrome wheels, 35 series tires and lowered sport spring be offered?" "What do you mean I can't get the LR badge in gold instead of green?" will be asked repeatedly). Should the requirements between the military and civilian versions polarize, two markedly different Defenders may result. Que sera, sera... Make mine a "military sans fatigue" please...   petern12 Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:13 pm:    Eric, there's a LR Defender's "consumer clinic" coming to town near you. Be sure to attend in your best fake Giorgio Armani and confess all your secret desires... Rumors has it that there will be a Louis Vuitton's Edition with custom-fitted LV luggage and suede-lined cargo compartment. To show wheelers everywhere that LR has not lost its heritage, a limited production run of 500 ARB bumper wrapped in LV's famous patterned leather complete with 24-karat gold-plated fairleads will be offered...all for a mere $5k.   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:18 pm:    I hope that you're kidding.. please tell me your kidding.. Is there really going to be a "consumer clinic"? I want in on that.. Going to pull my muddy Disco up and walk in wearing a tee shirt and dirty jeans with mud on my shoes. They'll probably kick me out huh?   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:21 pm:    oh and dude, I'm to fat to wear Armani fake or real.. I feel 900 bucks is a good price for a suit. Over 1000 and your just wasting cash for a label. Of course, I never wear a suit.   petern12 Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:46 pm:    Eric, here's a hot tip for you: Question #39 on the clinic's qualifying form:"Would you consider the idea of a designer perfume-emitting backup lights offensive?" is a trick question. Say yes and your levi's butt will never see the inside of that Armani's asylum...BTW, thanks for the "Nipples tweaking" advice on the other thread. I crawled under the truck and massaged both my nipples early this morning and Voila! problem solved! my wife will no longer complain of getting her foot wet!...Uhh... to the uninitiated, I'm of course talking about the two AC drain nipples on the disco that if left plugged, will result in condensation dumped on the passenger's footwell....   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:58 pm:    Damn, I didn't even get a form... guess that counts me out.. Hope your neighbors didn't see you playing with your nipples.. They might think you're a perv or something   R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 09:18 pm:    The Nissan Patrol is not an "upstart" they've been around since the 60's. Not sure exactly how long ago though. Anyway, I currently own two Land Rovers. The way this conversation is going, I plan on filling in the holes in my collection by 2005. (I must buy 6 cars in 2 years!!) I'll keep all but 2 mothballed until they start falling apart, rebuild, mothball, use, rebuild... http://landrover.mrbaileyshistory.net http://antifordownership.mrbaileyshistory.net Write to Ford, then write to your congressman, try to get that stupid 25-years-before-import thing repealed!!   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 10:50 pm:    You don't have to wait 25 years but be ready to jump hoops. If someone REALLY wants to they could import a 1997 D90. Anything after that would be impossible for a Defender. But you could do a Disco up to 2002 if you really had the time and money.   Peter Nguyen (Petern12) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 11:34 pm:    Bailey, you are correct. I meant to say that the Patrol is an "upstart" in the eyes of western military brass, as only in recent years that they're being seriously considered in any significant number of western countries' procurement program. Its reputation in third world/developing countries has long been established. The Nissan Patrol started series production in 1951, with development started in the 40's as the direct result of request from the Japanese Imperial Army. The resemblance to our legendary Jeep was by no way accidental. They were very good copy-cats though, as soon after the Patrol gained a reputation for reliability superior to our own "Heep". My dad owned a mint early series for 4yrs in the early 60's and he very much resented the fact that not more than 4 people in the 4yrs actually recognized the Patrol, all others simply complimented "Nice Jeep!". (file photo below) Bailey, I would like to believe that there are many die-hard "landies" like you on the LR development team, and even some in the execs rank and they'll somehow find a way to meet Ford's demand while keeping the faith...   Peter Nguyen (Petern12) Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 11:39 pm:    Oops, pic...   Neil Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 01:49 pm:    Guys, this could be an excercise in futility but I thought, lets voice our concerns to LRNA. I shot them the email below a few hours ago. I don't know if I'll get anything but a canned response back but hey its worth a shot, at the very least, someone at LRNA knows how we feel. Neil Hi there, I thought I'd drop you a line to inquire if you view the various LR forums on the net. I participate on http://www.discoweb.org/ forum which has a very vocal and loyal following of all things LR. Interestingly the topic of the next Disco came up, here is the link: ../27/7321.html"#444444">   DiscoDave Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 02:31 pm:    I bet the person who reads your email doesn't know what "DiscoII" means..... I bet they think your referring to the '70's....   Neil Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 02:35 pm:    Oh thats sad. I'm sure their picturing some sorry git with flares Ahhhhh   Neil Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 02:39 pm:    Oh thats sad. I'm sure their picturing some sorry git with flares Ahhhhh