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a different edh
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 09:11 pm: | 
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Here is what little I have read about :after being dropped by LR the 2.5l 300 TDi has been redesigned to the 2.8l Powerstroke , it is being manufactured in Brazil , it has more torque and HP than the 4.6l V8 rover engine . I have a few questions though like would it mate up to the ZF auto box for 200/300TDi's ? Where can we find these 2.8's here in the US ? Does anyone have more info ?
TIA, Ed |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 10:29 pm: |
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Interesting you mention this engine. It also is brought up here: http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Tdiconversions.html
Looks like someone is ahead of the curve. |
hendrik
| | Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 01:18 am: |
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being a topic on a german BB, too.
someone gave us the URL of the factory that now produces the 300tdi for Rover (re-imported to GB) and did further development with Ford.
www.maxion-motores.com.br
look for the "international 2.5" for the 300tdi and "international 2.8" for the engine referred to.
in England the company "MotorDieselEngineering" is importing and selling this engine. Their website is md-engineering.com or .co.uk (or without "-"). Their advert reads they sell a conversion kit for it too. So definately it would work with standard Rover gearboxes. I don´t know how much involved a conversion kit can / needs to be. It lies in the interest of an advert to mystify a little ..
No concrete info, sorry. |
Hendrik B. (Hendrik)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 02:46 pm: |
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nothing new for you if you receive one of the british LR magazines. |
AdrianS
| | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 08:44 am: |
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Thought this might interest some people. I emailed them a few days ago about shipping this motor and prices for my 91RRC. I live in NJ. Sounds pretty good to me.
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Dear Adrian,
Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.
We can supply a new HS2.8L TGV engine together with a kit to suit your Range Rover Classic auto, details below.
QUOTATION
To supply new International 2.8 litre HS 2.8L TGV turbocharged and inter-cooled engine assembly to suit your 1991 Range Rover auto complete with adapter plate, special flywheel, drive plate adapter, drive plate, exchange converter housing, kickdown parts, starter motor, alternator, power steering pump, front engine mounting brackets with rubber mountings, viscous fan, drive belt, flywheel and clutch, radiator / inter-cooler and header tank with all hoses, air cleaner & inter-cooler pipes with hoses, complete exhaust system, throttle cable, power steering pipe, wiring looms with timer unit, hardware and instructions,
£4,995 ex works exchange (old engine required)
Normal surcharge for non return, £1,000 discounted to a total of
£300 for export
Total price for non exchange £5,295 ex works
To export pack and ship to New York Quay, £295
I hope the attached documents on the new HS2.8 are interesting.
If you need any more information regarding the above please let me know.
Best regards, |
AdrianS
| | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 09:05 am: |
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Here is the attachment they sent me.
IMPROVED FEATURES OF THE INTERNATIONAL HS 2.8 L ENGINE COMPARED WITH THE LAND ROVER �300� Tdi
The HS 2.8L engine was developed from the 2.5 �300� Tdi and has the same backend and engine mounting points on the cylinder block. The 2.8 will fit in to any application that already has the �300� Tdi installed. The position of the air inlet to the inlet manifold and turbocharger and the turbo exhaust outlet are different.
1. The improved head gasket is now steel laminate.
2. The crankshaft is forged not cast.
3. The cylinder bock has been re-designed to improve cooling .
4. The combustion system has been re-developed by AVL.
5. The improved connecting rod has the cap secured by bolts with thread in rod.
6. A new piston has been developed.
7. The rear crankshaft seal clamping has been improved to improve leakage problem.
8. The rpm at maximum torque has been reduced, 1400 TGV &1600 WG (1800 Tdi)
9. The power and torque have been increased, see comparison below.
LR �300� Tdi
Displacement :- 2,495 cc Maximum power :- 111 bhp @ 4,000 rpm
Maximum governed rpm 4,000
Maximum torque :- 195 lbf ft @ 1,800 rpm
International HS 2.8L TGV (Variable Geometry Turbo)
Displacement :- 2,785 cc
Maximum power :- 135 bhp @ 3,800 rpm
Max governed rpm :- 4,000
Maximum torque :- 277 lbf ft @ 1,400 rpm
International HS 2.8L WG (Wastegate)
Displacement :- 2,785 cc
Maximum power :- 132 bhp @ 3,800 rpm
Max governed rpm :- 4,000
Maximum torque :- 262 lbf ft @ 1,600 rpm |
Mike Smith ECR
| | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 05:03 pm: |
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Dear all,
Things always look so easy on paper (or on the screen) and then get harder and harder as your project goes on.
All the above information is correct. The 2.8 is basically a hot rod 300 Tdi that has been re-worked by International. With updates in all respects and a varible turbo they claim up to 277 ft lbs at only 1400 rpms. This is great stuff. We have a test 2.8 on the way from the UK for install into ECR4 for testing and hopefully passing of EPA certs. All that information will be posted to our web site as time allows and tests are completed.
But... I did want to make you aware of some issues so you could consider them as you think about diesl in your USA Rover:
Probably the most costly aspect of the conversion parts listed above that is not mentioned is the Air Cond. All USA Range Rovers came with AC and you'll likely want to re-fit this if you do a diesl conversion. This will require that you have the system sucked own. Then install a new compressor (Tdi version) a new compressor mount and new hoses (as the Tdi compressors use the later model type AC fittings). Then re-charge the system and test for leaks. IN some Tdi units you will also need a diferent thermostat neck and the hi temp cut out swicthes that go with it to operate the cooling fans correctly.
Some of the small things are: Front springs. These diesels are heavy compared to the V8 and if you don't up your springs you'll sit nose down.
Fuel fill, the USA cars have the unleaded guard. You'll have to address this before you can get diesel in your tank.
Once diesel is in your tank you have to get it out, and without the factory EFI pumnp, so you need to remove and modify your EFI pump to be ready for the diesel (as it does not require the in tank pump).
Another biggie is that this company offers a conversion to run the Tdi in fromt of the V8i automatic gearbox. The ZF HP22 is a great unit, but the Tdi version of this gearbox does have more internal clutches than the V8 petrol unit. They may have no problem with this, but if your current gearbox has 150,000 miles and you are about to slap 277 ft lbs at 1400 rpms in front of it it may give up. I have call in to Ian Ashcroft to see if he thinks the V8 ZF unit will stand up to the diesel use, so no real infor there yet.
The early USA Range Rovers and USA Defenders all came with a 1.22 ratio transfer case. The Euro diesels came with a 1.4 ratio transfer case. I recently drove the Discotech (our Tdi DiscoverY) before it had the gearing change done, and as much as I love the 300 tdi, that engine against the stock 1.22 transfer case was a dog, especially at start off and going up hills. You will need to change the gearing to either a 1.4 trabsfer case, or 4.11s in your diffs, or maybe even both if you run large rubber.
We posted the Discotech project so that a lot of the small things that you need to do when going diesel were shown to the public, so do your homework and remember that some aspects of the "diesel conversion" may or may not be addressed when you buy a kit. Be sure to ask all the questions so you aren't dissappointed later on.
Any questions we'll be happy to answer them. We don't ofer diesel conversions for Range Rovers, so this ins't a sales picth, just more information as you consider your options.
Take care,
Mike, ECR |
hendrik
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 03:39 am: |
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by its specification the 4HP22 is too weak for that engine. Maximum admitted torque is 340NM (and I think that figure relates to petrol engines), but the 2.8tdi delivers 370NM (if I calculated correctly). The 4.6 V8 has the 4HP24 (basically the same gearbox I think with uprated oil pump, T/C, lockup-clutch (?) ) that takes more torque. The www.zf.com (follow: products-passenger cars-gearboxes-automatic boxes lists the product range. the Product code leads to a .pdf file with the specifications. This is where I got my information and draw my conclusions from).
Seems like a tuned 300tdi of a friend (estimated 340NM) brings the clutches to their limit sometimes (especially the T/C lock-up).
Mike, yóu confused with the gearing thing. The Discos-1/RRC I know have the 1.22:1 (whether V8 or Tdi, to compensate for the smaller tires from stock. The 2.0l in-line 4 mpi engine has 1.41 high range and is the exception). Interesting to hear but not too surprising that the US specifications differ.
? Has the 2.8tdi omitted the mechanical fuel pump on R/H side. |
p m
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 07:52 pm: |
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so that would be ten grand for a diesel conversion, with about 2-3K left behind the scenes?
i'd guess one can import a wrecked 300Tdi, never register it, and swap in the entire drivetrain at a fraction of this tag.
but it's all theory, like cyberwheeling...
peter |
Mike Smith ECR
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:09 am: |
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Mike, yóu confused with the gearing thing. The Discos-1/RRC I know have the 1.22:1 (whether V8 or Tdi, to compensate for the smaller tires from stock. The 2.0l in-line 4 mpi engine has 1.41 high range and is the exception). Interesting to hear but not too surprising that the US specifications differ.
In regards to above: What I was talking about was not what the factory delivered them with, but what actually works for US roads and US customers. The 300 Tdi Disco with the 1.22 transfer case is a dog off the line, RPMS are too low at highway speeds to climb any grade and starting of around town on steep hills is a bitch. My statements was that to make the Disco1/RR actually function properly the 300 Tdi it needs a 1.4 transfer or a gearing swap (unless you live in the flat mid-west maybe). This is from seat of the pant soperation of the actual vehicles, regardless of what the factory supplies. ;-)
? Has the 2.8tdi omitted the mechanical fuel pump on R/H side.
Unknown. I hope not.
Thanks all,
Mike Smith, ECR |
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