| Author | Message | ||||
     John Gadd (Roverdude) New Member Username: Roverdude Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2003 |
I just had a CDL designed for DII to sell. And was curious what others thought the increase in off-road capability was? Maybe on a scale from from 1 - 10. 1 representing stock 4.0 DII. 10 a 4.6 w/ CDL with front and rear lockers. Just trying to describe to potential buyers. | ||||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Senior Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 388 Registered: 06-2003 |
Whats your set up look like? if say just CDL will bring a stock rover from a 5 to a 6. Lockers help a lot more, as well as suspension and tires. | ||||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 665 Registered: 11-2002 |
D2's have CDL in many cases...some its just tough to engage 
If you went through all the work I would think you would know?
why complicate this with the 4.0 vs 4.6 stuff? why not just CDL vs no CDL?
sorry but I dont see you describing anything? MM | ||||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 435 Registered: 02-2003 |
MM...your right, is it a way to engage the center lock? since March/April '01, D2's don't have the spindle installed on the t-case...the motor has nothing to do with the ability to lock the center diff. Before you try and sell a product, do a little research and get a clue about what your trying to sell...seems u have no clue about what your trying to sell... | ||||
| John Gadd (Roverdude) New Member Username: Roverdude Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2003 |
UURGGGHH 1)Tough to engage. How else were you going to engage it? Climb under with vise grips...only the 2004 DII comes with linkage from the factory. 2)Was hoping to get some opinions...but I guess you don't have one. 3)I have my own thoughts, if you want to hear them. It seems to eliminate the ETC system about 50%. Noticeable decrease in wheel slipage, hesitation, etc. Measurable increase in capability. Stock:1, w/ CDL:4, w/ lockers 6-8, w/ CDL & lockers:8-10 4) I'll make it easier for you MM. Feel free to describe in your own words. 5) This is a tech forum. I am trying to get some technical opinions. You know, stimulate discussion of a subject. Believe me, I was anticipating the nit picking disection of my post. | ||||
| John Gadd (Roverdude) New Member Username: Roverdude Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2003 |
OK, never mind engine size, ranking, blah, blah, blah. Can anyone who has installed a CDL on a DII tell me what they think? | ||||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 1208 Registered: 02-2002 |
It's very nice.  | ||||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 666 Registered: 11-2002 |
ok... ...sounds like John is testing the waters on a pipe dream
see this is where you went wrong, you made no sensible post. there is nothing to nit pick. see being in sales I guess I would have said. "I have just finnished building a new CDL locking system for non-CDL equiped discoveries. The system is all new and different from what else is being produced in the fact it is acuated using engine vacume. A simple push of a botton will engage the system and lock the front and rear drivelines togather for a 50/50 distribution of power." but I guess that would just make sense if you said it like that. | ||||
| Captain Spalding (Captainspalding) New Member Username: Captainspalding Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2004 |
Here's my take. The Disco's reliance on ABS-based ETC makes the benefit of a center diff lock limited at best. While electronic traction control works fine in many situations, ultimately it is not as good as locking diffs. It is a reactive system while locking diffs and an experienced driver are proatcive. The ETC reacts to wheelspin. By the time it reacts, you've lost your momentum. That can sometimes be unfortuitous, to say the least. A center locking diff with ETC is little better than ETC alone. If you have the ABS system dealing with wheelspin at all the wheels, why bother locking the center diff? The best solution is to have 3 locking diffs and the wherewithal to know when to use them. Maintaining traction is the name of the game. Since you asked for a numbering system, I will rank in order of importance things I would do to increase/maintain traction. 1. a good set of off-road tires. 2. air down those tires. 3. front and rear diff locks. 4. center diff lock. 5. increase axle articulation Notice that the center diff lock is a bit down the list. Good luck with your enterprise. Captain Spalding ____________________ '04 Discovery '91 Mercedes 300GE '85 Mercedes 280GE | ||||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 765 Registered: 09-2002 |
Welcome to the jungle John (and relax, it's just d-web) 1.You did forget the word 'linkage' in your original post - you left yourself open for that one. 2. Almost everyone here already knows that locking the center diff. is one of the most effective off-road mods. you can do - you didn't really need to ask. IMO you should have gone right for the 'for sale' section - it's been discussed to death already. Something like "For Sale, Disco II CDL linkage kits. You know what they do. If you don't have one, you know you need one, etc..." You might have had a few sales by now. Oh, and try not to piss-off the lounge members SC | ||||
| John Gadd (Roverdude) Member Username: Roverdude Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2003 |
Finally, an educated opinion. Thanks Captain. However, re: ETC with CDL. Engaged you devide delivery of power to the axles equally. Now ETC only has to divide the 50% between the 2 wheels (instead of all four). VERY noticeable decrease in lost momentum. Craig, I'm surprised you only had 3 words. You were one of the first to show me CDL installed on a DII. BTW, are you going to be at John Bull? | ||||
| Captain Spalding (Captainspalding) New Member Username: Captainspalding Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2004 |
Re: ETC with CDL - okay, torque split equally between the two axles is a good thing sometimes. The potential problem is that the ETC is an ABS-based system. ABS is generally bad for off-road. In sand and gravel it is beneficial to be able to lock up the wheels to make a quick stop. The burm of sand that builds up in front of the tires helps to stop the truck more quickly than if the wheels didn't lock up. ABS on sand actually lengthens the stopping distance. It would be great if the ABS were smart enough so that when the t-case was in low range, ABS braking would be disabled, but ETS would still function. But I don't believe that is the case. Better yet, it would be great to have a switch that disables the ABS. Spalding | ||||
| Tom Fioretti (Tom_in_md) Member Username: Tom_in_md Post Number: 164 Registered: 02-2003 |
John, I'm just curious. What is YOUR opinion on the increased off-road ability your new product may provide? Try to pitch the product. This site is awash in potential consumers, most with a very good understanding of this issue. Excellent opportunity here for you if you've got the goods. Good luck in your endeavor. | ||||
| Walter Dent (Walter) Member Username: Walter Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2003 |
From somebody who actually has a cdl on thier D2 I'd say it makes one hell of a difference. I don't hit the TC half as much, if that with the cdl engaged. Traversing humps diagonally with 2 wheels in the air is a breeze. I find that TC and cdl working in conjunction does wonders on the trail. | ||||
| Joe Cole (Joe_cole) New Member Username: Joe_cole Post Number: 11 Registered: 07-2003 |
I concur with Walter, the combination of CDL and TC have worked well for me when wheel'n. If I could just stop going through wheel sensors! | ||||
| James M. Reed (Utahdog2003) New Member Username: Utahdog2003 Post Number: 25 Registered: 03-2004 |
newbie question...help me orient myself. If I'm looking for that little CDL nub...where would I be. Under the truck looking up at the t-case, or in the truck with the console out? I've got the diagram from EE, but I can't figure out front from back, left from right etc... a little help? | ||||
| Michael Noe (Noee) Senior Member Username: Noee Post Number: 902 Registered: 03-2002 |
Lying under the truck, your feet to the back, reach your hand up over the front output shaft, back up in there about 4 inches or so. If the exhaust is hot, be careful or you'll get a nice strawberry. | ||||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 386 Registered: 10-2003 |
James look in the tech section under D2 CDL or something like that and there are some pictures from above that help out a lot in finding it. Skipper Spalding, I am quite jealous of your G-Wagens. Do they have the mechanical lockers??? | ||||
| James M. Reed (Utahdog2003) New Member Username: Utahdog2003 Post Number: 28 Registered: 03-2004 |
good tip, I found a couple of great pics under the Solenoid Install article. Coupled with the diagram from the EE page and my handy dental mirror, I'm heading out to the truck! | ||||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Senior Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 321 Registered: 05-2003 |
Hooray for Captain Spalding! Did you shoot an elepahant in your pajamas? How's Africa? | ||||
| Chris Browne (Chris_browne) Senior Member Username: Chris_browne Post Number: 731 Registered: 02-2003 |
"1)only the 2004 DII comes with linkage from the factory." WRONG Its only in the USA that the official CDL connection wasn't made until 04MY ROW has had cdl as an option for years. Early US d2s had it there but not connected. Installing a d1 linkage works as does fancier electrical set ups "2)Was hoping to get some opinions..." Since others have BTDT why is yours better? | ||||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2003 |
I thought some of the DIIs had NO CDL "guts" and one couldn't just add the linkage, but others just lacked the linkage. FWIW, my D1 CDL linkage froze up so I can't engage the CDL and it really hasn't seemed to make a difference. I'll try to free it up this weekend though. | ||||
| John Gadd (Roverdude) Member Username: Roverdude Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2003 |
I was told the factory eliminated the CDL 'nub' on the DII starting with the 2002 production. Then added it back with linkage on 2004 model. Sorry 2002 - 2003 owners. I am only speaking of the NAS vehicle, not the rest of the world (ROF). | ||||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 935 Registered: 11-2002 |
John , Thom is one of the most knowlegeable guys on the site. You should find out who you are talking about before you start flapping.. | ||||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Senior Member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 1179 Registered: 09-2002 |
"1. a good set of off-road tires. 2. air down those tires. 3. front and rear diff locks. 4. center diff lock. 5. increase axle articulation" Captain....switch your numbers 3 and 4 around in priority. No sence in having lockers with out a CDL. | ||||
| John Gadd (Roverdude) Member Username: Roverdude Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2003 |
Kyle, I don't doubt Thom's knowledge. Just wished he would have shared his knowledge and opinions on CDL. Not his opinion on how I posted it. I guess when one wing starts flapping, the other flaps in unison. | ||||
| Captain Spalding (Captainspalding) New Member Username: Captainspalding Post Number: 4 Registered: 03-2004 |
Re: Matt Anderson (Disco01) Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 10:54 am: �� Skipper Spalding, I am quite jealous of your G-Wagens. Do they have the mechanical lockers??? Yes, the '85 has hydraulically actuated mechanical lockers (you pull a lever attached to a hydraulic master cylinder.) On the '91 they are electro-hydraulically actuated (pushing one of three switches on the dash actuates an electric servo which in turn actuates the hydraulic master cylinder. Three switches, three locking diffs.) Re: Eric Johnson (Eric2) Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 11:17 am: �� Hooray for Captain Spalding! Did you shoot an elepahant in your pajamas? How's Africa? Ah ha! Somebody gets it. That's the most rediculous thing I ever heard! Spalding | ||||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 389 Registered: 10-2003 |
I still dont get it. Must be before my time. Anyway, a nice Gwagen gets me all weak in the knees. With the intro of the MBUSA ones rather than Europa the second hand price of the later ones are going down faster than an anchor. I think I would love to pick up a lower mileage 1994 with the 3.2 I-6. LWB model as I want 4 doors. I hear they are pretty much indestructible if properly looked after. Of course, I say that about Defenders too | ||||
| Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) Senior Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 379 Registered: 05-2003 |
I went to a local dealer "off road " event here in Florida today and was able to compare back to back runs with and with CDL. We all know the noise the ETC makes, with the CDL ingaged it only chattered about half the time as without CDL. It was a real eye opener to drive the track back to back. The control is far superior and there is much less jerking the truck to engage the ETC. -JIm | ||||
| John Gadd (Roverdude) Member Username: Roverdude Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2003 |
Here is a link to the For Sale listing for the CDL mechanism: ../12/47553.html"MB">
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