| Author | Message | ||
     John S. Bleazard (Injun) Member Username: Injun Post Number: 67 Registered: 12-2003 |
My 98 D1 has been throwing a P0130 code. I went ahead and changed the drivers side upstream sensor thinking that would solve the problem, but Im still seeing the code. In addition, the specific o2 data is saying the time between transitions are beyond the maximum limit of 0.6 seconds. Im getting this failure on all 4 sensors. All other parameters are within spec and the truck drives fine. I normally wouldnt worry about it, but worry this problem might cause subsequent corrections to fuel delivery and cause the air/fuel mixture to run rich or lean. Causing more severe long term problems. Furthermore, I spoke with Nathan of Discount Rovers and he mentioned a possibility of an ECU software upgrade that corrects this. I called the nearest LR dealership (2hrs) and they ran my VIN and said there was no upgrade or recall open for my truck. Is anyone familiar with the problem Im experiencing or a software upgrade available. I just dread seeing the tab from LR on just looking at my truck, but its getting to where this might have to transpire. Any help you guys/gals can give would be greatly appreciated | ||
| Ryan Graham (Ryangraham) Member Username: Ryangraham Post Number: 72 Registered: 01-2004 |
If its setting a code for all four sensors there are a few possibilities. First it's possible that all four of your sensors are "lazy" although this is not likely to happen all at once. Another possibility is that all four of the sensors share a common ground/heater/ or other signal wire that has a problem. I have seen codes for multiple oxygen sensors on other vehicles because of plugged fuel filters or bad fuel pumps because the computer will increase injector pulse but fuel volume will not increase, when the computer sees no significant changes in sensor voltage it assumes they are bad. These codes are usually "lean codes." What does your code say specifically? | ||
| John S. Bleazard (Injun) Member Username: Injun Post Number: 68 Registered: 12-2003 |
The specific failed parameter is "Time between sensor transition (calculated) are 2.3 with minimum limit of 0.0s and maximum limit of 0.6s has failed" This is the only parameter that is showing "FAIL" and its showing this message on all 4 sensors. Although the times are different. The rich to lean switch time and lean to rich switch time are both "PASS" Any idea? I have cleared the light using OBD2.com software, but will check the sensor status tomorrow afternoon and will report back. Thanks for your help ryan. | ||
| Ryan Graham (Ryangraham) Member Username: Ryangraham Post Number: 78 Registered: 01-2004 |
Ok. I dont know much about the disco's computer system and from what I have read on this board its pretty different from most other manufacturers. Heres my guess, others on this board may be able to tell you more or tell me I'm a retard. My guess is that it is running two seperate tests. One on the sensors themselves to see if they are switching within the 0-.6 limits (which they are not). And one tests on the sensor circuit to see if the sensor are capable of switching (hence the "pass" on the switch monitor). My suggestion is to change your fuel filter and check your fuel pressure. The pressure test wont give you a volume test, but should tell you if the pressure is adequate. I doubt that all your sensors are bad so avoid changing all 4 until everything else has been checked. | ||
| John S. Bleazard (Injun) Member Username: Injun Post Number: 69 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks Ryan. I will have access to a pressure gauge this weekend and will check it and go ahead and replace the filter while Im at it. Dont these OBD systems keep track of fuel pressures? Thanks for your help Ryan. Ive had this truck for a couple of months and it runs fantastic, but it has just crested the 70K mile mark and this is the time that things start to wear and fail and Id rather replace things like this before they leave me stranded somewhere. | ||
| Ryan Graham (Ryangraham) Member Username: Ryangraham Post Number: 82 Registered: 01-2004 |
Some OBD systems do keep track of pressure, but usually only for diagnosing other systems. I dont think I've ever seen a low fuel pressure code, even when the vehicle comes in for a fuel pump. I have seen fuel level sensor codes if they run out of fuel. Besides, fuel pressure does not necessarily equal volume. I really think a fuel filter will solve your issues. I was going to ask if you had any work done recently which would have caused the sensors to become "poisoned"? Non sensor safe RTV can kill sensors, so can coolant in the exhaust. I understand about the staying on top of things. I wanted to get a water pump, •••••• cooler lines, and my steering box sealed before J**p Safari, but only had time/money for brakes, bearings, rotors, and tires. Guess I'll have to cross my fingers. I'll try to find this thread when I get back to see how things are. | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 21 Registered: 09-2003 |
As luck would have it, I am seeing a similar problem with the P0130 code on my '97. I have had two codes in the last couple of days. I am suspecting the fuel pump. I suppose it could also be a filter problem. Tonite I noticed a gurgling sound coming from the fuel tank as well as the wine of the fuel pump. I have not heard this sound before. Could this be linked a to a fuel pressure regulator or something of that nature, or is it more likely to be the pump. I am not totally familiar with the fuel system on the Rover. My fuel pump, rail, and injectors were all replaced 40k ago. I would have to check with the dealer to see what other items were replaced. They replaced it all before I bought it, so I really don't know what all was replaced. Any suggestions would help. At this point I am leaning toward the fuel pump. I will have to get the pressure checked to see where it is at. | ||
| John S. Bleazard (Injun) Member Username: Injun Post Number: 72 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thats interesting Kris, I also noticed a gurgling sound when the key is first turned to the acc position. Additionally, I hear a gurgling sound when Im accelerating hard. May be a strain on the pump. I plan on checking the pump this weekend. Where is a good place to tap into the fuel line to check pressure? Also, it appears that the fuel lines go into a black box (has GM on it) in the engine compartment. Could this be a regulator of some sort? What is it? | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 22 Registered: 09-2003 |
I looked into the fuel system a little more, the regulator is just ahead of the distribution rail. I think the gurgling is the sound of the return line. I think if everything in the system is optimal, the flow back to the tank is continuous when the engine is not running (where else would it go). I don't know if the pump is pressure switched, i.e. it shuts off once the system reaches a certain pressure. I think my problem may be a clogged filter. I am going to start there. I have heard the gas caps can be problematic as well. From what I understand, it is pretty important to maintain pressure in the system, and it is all pressurized whenever it is running. As far as checking the pressure, there should be a schrader type valve, like a tire valve stem, on the fuel rail. I have not looked that close yet, but most of the other EFI systems I have messed with have a valve. I am going to replace the filter tonight and see what happens. The gurgling has only started to be noticeable in the last few days. I actually got under the truck and listened, it is definitely coming from the tank, and I suspect it is because the flow is being impeded, so it is erradic going back to the tank. | ||
| John S. Bleazard (Injun) Member Username: Injun Post Number: 73 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks a bunch Ryan and Kris. I went to Napa this morning and got a fuel filter. I need to change the oil this weekend and will do that and the fuel filter. Again, thanks for your time and advice, it really is apreciated. | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 41 Registered: 09-2003 |
Let me ressurect this post. After many arduous hours and a cloud of profanity that now hangs over my house like fog over a Scottish Loche, the filter is finally changed. The CE light came back on! So I looked at the spark plugs, all chalky white. So it is LEAN! I check my fuel pressure, only 28lbs at the plenum. I am guessing this is the problem, it pretty much points to the fuel pump. Here is my question; why then am I only getting the slow transition code on sensor 1 bank 1? Also, this time, both knock sensors were out of range. I need to get a different guage to verify the pressure, but I am guessing there is a fuel pump replacement in my very near future. | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 768 Registered: 04-2003 |
Just a guess (backyard mechinic guestimate) but if you have a bad fuel pump, which causes you Disco to run lean, which in turn causes the sensor to think something is wrong, which in turn (since it is running lean) trys to richen the mixture, but can't. So now you have both sides of the engine knocking, due to everything being slightly out of adjustment. So both knock sensors will show you out of range because the whole system is not very sure what it is supposed to do. I hope my very long sentence has helped in some way, if not ignore my post  | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 42 Registered: 09-2003 |
I am going to order the fuel pump from DAP Friday. I just hope in the mean time it does not quit entirely. Is 110k about the average lifespan for the fuel pump? My Trooper went 265k before it needed a fuel pump. Everything else seems good, so it really seems at this point that it is the fuel pump. 27-28 psi seems pretty good, but from what I understand, this is not enough pressure. Does anyone know what the recommended pressure is? | ||
| John S. Bleazard (Injun) Member Username: Injun Post Number: 75 Registered: 12-2003 |
I would also like to know the recommended fuel pressure range. I still havent got around to changing the filter due to the crappy weather here, but hope to get to it in the next couple of days. I also feel that a fuel pump may be the culprit even though Im showing only 72K on the truck | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Senior Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 336 Registered: 05-2003 |
Recommended pressure ought to be 36 to 38 p.s.i., so your lucky it would even run at all. If it's still throwing codes, wiggle the wiring harness around while its running. I believe many problems can be traced to bad connections/wires in the harness. | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 43 Registered: 09-2003 |
I suppose the wiring harnesses are still made by Lucas? You would think after all these years the Brits would have found more reliable wiring. Are you saying to wiggle the harness by the O2 sensor? With the low fuel pressure, I think that is probably the problem. I am going to order a pressure gauge from JEGS and install it on the fuel rail, that way I will always have a positive indicator of fuel pressure. I think my Disco is getting old enough it is time for a full set of gauges, oil, volts, and real temp gauge, the idiot lights never tell you anything until it is too late. With these problems, I have been doing some checking, my Disco is advanced evap. Do you suppose that the gas cap could contribute to this problem? I have heard that a bad cap can cause all sorts of problems. |
