| Author | Message | ||
     Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 23 Registered: 09-2003 |
So I went to change my fuel filter last night. Started on the back fitting first, can't even get it to budge. So I try the front, it won't budge either. Not wanting to strip the fittings on the fuel line I figure I will make a tool to assist in this task. I took one of my old pairs of vice grips and welded a section of 16mm impact socket into the jaws and then I split the socket with the die grinder so the jaws will open and close. This works great on the front fitting, but the back will still not budge. With the modified vice grips clamped as tighlty as I can, it still slipped and the filter still will not come out. Now I have a ruined fitting on my fuel line and a horribly bent filter. Last night when I saw how tight the fittings were, I soaked everything with PB blaster hoping it would loosen things up a bit, I let the blaster sit on there until tonight. I have taken parts off of 60 year old Jeeps with PB and never had a problem like this. It appears that both of the fittings on the filter are right hand threads, correct? Maybe I am smoking crack, but I had a fitting in my garage that would screw right into both ends of the new filter, both right hand threads. Now I have a ruined fuel line and a plugged filter that will not move. Any suggestions? I am at the end of my rope!! I am not so sure I am too far away from having an unfortunate car fire! I know the dealer changed the filter last, do they have some special tool to get these things loose when some sloped brow moron tightens it this much? At this point, it seems I have no choice but to drop the tank and replace the fuel line (if I want it fixed properly). This is one instance where I actually wish I would have taken it to a mechanic, or even worse, the dealer. I do all my own work, even engine overhauls, but this filter is just ridiculously tight. If it wasn't a fuel filter I would heat the fittings with the old hot wrench, but somehow I don't think that is the best idea in this case! I am open to any suggestions. Right now, aside from the tank drop and line replacement I am leaning toward cutting the rubber lines and hose clamping in a different filter. I really hate to do this, because of the leak potential and the fact that it would basically ruin two fuel lines, but I really don't want to drop the tank! | ||
| Chuck Stroud (Str0ud) Member Username: Str0ud Post Number: 54 Registered: 02-2004 |
Kris, are you using two wrenches? One on filter fitting and one on line fitting. -Str0ud | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 24 Registered: 09-2003 |
Oh yes, actually I had my modified vice grip wrench on the line fitting and wrench on the filter. The fitting on the line is now almost completely round and it won't budge! I don't think I have any option but to cut the line on the tank side and drop the tank and replace the tank to filter fuel line. With the LR ECU being so touchy, I worry that a clamped in filter will impede fuel flow enough to cause problems. I really hate dropping fuel tanks! | ||
| Chuck Stroud (Str0ud) Member Username: Str0ud Post Number: 55 Registered: 02-2004 |
I do also. Seems like you could blow yourself up at any second! -Str0ud | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 25 Registered: 09-2003 |
 Not the prettiest welds in the world, but I was in a hurry. As you can see, this thing will grab a nut pretty dang tight, and I still could not get that fitting to move at all. Do you have to have the tank lowered to get at the fittings on the fuel pump? If not, maybe I can replace the line without dropping the tank. I can't imagine how much the LR mechanic must have tightened this thing to make it this difficult to remove. The paint on the plier wrench is just a bad habit. Growing up on a farm, we threw a quick coat of paint on everything we welded, just so it wouldn't rust up too bad. | ||
| Chuck Stroud (Str0ud) Member Username: Str0ud Post Number: 56 Registered: 02-2004 |
Kris, I'm not sure if you can get the job done this way but it's worth a shot. There is an access port to the fuel pump and fittings. Lift up the carpet and any padding in the rear cargo boot of the truck. Gotta hate those simple repair jobs gone bad. Hope you get it. -Str0ud | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 26 Registered: 09-2003 |
Yeah, a fuel filter should be a piece of cake, but in this instance it has definitely turned into a big old piece of something far less desirable! | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 734 Registered: 04-2003 |
If it was me, I would just get a pipe cutter, cut the line, then take a flare tool and flare both ends so that all will work when done. Take a piece of rubber hose on both sides and go buy a filter that fits in between. Use some hose clamps and your done. Then all you will ever need to change the filter is a screwdriver or a 3/8" socket and ratchet. Problem solved. Let me know if you think I am nuts. I may be, you never know. | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 27 Registered: 09-2003 |
That was my thought too, the only hesitation I have is the fact that, if I ever for some reason wanted to go back to the LR filter, I have to replace two fuel lines. I do like the sure connection of the threaded fittings, but in this case the connection was just a little too sure. I worry a little about putting too much of a constriction in the line, but I doubt that will be an issue, but man that LR ECU is picky. I agree though, cutting out the existing fittings is the most simple solution. I am going to price the fuel line and see how bad it will hurt the pocket book. Maybe I can find out who the tech was at LR that worked on it last and give him about 50 lashings with the old ruined line with the filter still on the end. | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 737 Registered: 04-2003 |
I beleive LR makes a repair kit for the fuel filter line. I am sure I read about it somewhere, but the price was a little steap for me. I don't think it would cause any contriction on the fuel line, but what do I know. | ||
| Sandy Grice (Apg) Member Username: Apg Post Number: 48 Registered: 02-2003 |
Had the same thing happen to me the first time around. Rover's not-so-brilliant engineers specified an aluminium fuel filter then steel fuel line fittings, situating the whole thing inside the wheel well where it was assured of a continual spray of water, salt and road funk. Can you say galvanic corrosion? Then to make matters worse, used some kind of monkey-snot sealer. I used two wrenches, including line wrenches, but soon found out the only way to remove this PITA was destructively. Depressurized the system using the schrader valve on the fuel rail, so the fuel in the filter wouldn't come spraying out. Tried a nut-splitter first, but aluminium just smooshes, doesn't split. Finally resorted to the Dremel and a cut-off wheel, figuring aluminium woudln't spark. (Also had someone standing close by on fire watch, extinguisher at the ready.) It only made *a few* sparks.... Anyway, the aluninium bits yielded and the steel threads were undamaged. Refit a 'murrican-made *steel* fuel filter ($9) and greased the fittings so this wouldn't happen again. I have since replaced it twice, and it was easy each time.... Cheers | ||
| Bill Ross (Billr) Member Username: Billr Post Number: 161 Registered: 11-2002 |
I'm pretty sure that your year Disco takes same filter as my RRC. I had the same problem when I did my filter last weekend. I cut off the swaged connections between the rubber and hard fuel lines with a Dremel and just pulled the filter out with the rubber lines and all. Then I went down to the local parts store and bought two hardlines with the necessary connectors. The fittings on the filter are standard stuff and are identical to AC filters and GM fuel fittings. These things come in a kit and I paid a whole $3.00 CDN for each of them (2 needed). Came home cut the hardlines on these replacement bits to about an inch/half long, cut and installed rubber fuel injection hose (good to 300psi) on the hardlines and used fuel injection type hose clamps. Worked great and sure beat trying to fight old corroded fittings. Plus if you want to use an "official" LR filter, it still works. | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 28 Registered: 09-2003 |
They got rid of the aluminum, and changed it to stainles. Still the issue of galvanic corrosion (not as bad, but still an issue), and like you said, brilliant placement! Here in Utah, they use a TREMENDOUS amount of salt on the roads in the winter. So for two winters that fitting has been exposed to a large amount of salt spray. The dealer opens in a few minutes, so I will be giving them a call to see how much the new fuel line will cost. I suspect it will be more affordable to cut out the threaded fittings and hose clamp a filter in place (and that even includes the cost of the double flare tool). | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 29 Registered: 09-2003 |
I'll have to take the LR filter to the parts store tomorrow and see what I can track down. I might be able to leave enough of the existing rubber to clamp it in there and not even have to mess with the hard lines. That is a good idea, I hadn't thought of buying new hard line pieces with fittings. If I flare the cut ends of the new pieces it should all fit tight and not cause any problems. I am definitely going to shield the filter this time, as well as put anti-sieze on the connections. Thanks for the help. | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Senior Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 317 Registered: 05-2003 |
Kris, I tried changing my fuel filter a couple of weeks ago, and soon realized that there was no way I could do the job without cutting. Since I couldn't afford to be without the truck, I took it to the dealer, and they took 2 hours to change it. They had to use the Land Rover fuel filter/repair kit (just a filter with rubber hose and clamps). They did it while I waited, and charged $145. Most expensive fuel filter I've ever had! At least my pride is not as wounded from having to go to the dealer for a fuel filter change after hearing your experiences! | ||
| Sandy Grice (Apg) Member Username: Apg Post Number: 51 Registered: 02-2003 |
Try A/C GF481B, NAPA 3481, Wix 33481, Purolator F331 44M, or Fram G3727. All are less that $10.... | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 30 Registered: 09-2003 |
It's funny, I talked to the parts guy a little at the dealer about this problem and he said, "oh, that's odd we really don't have any trouble with those things". That is usually the standard answer when I ask them about problems. I don't know why they bother trying to soften everything, I'm already hooked, it's not like I want anything but a Land Rover. If it were any other vehicle, I would have gotten rid of it about the second time the check engine light came on. | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 31 Registered: 09-2003 |
Bill, I looked and looked at the local parts store, we found one fitting in the whole place that would fit in the filter and it would only engage about two threads on the filter. I did however find a filter that has the M16x1.5 threads on the outlet side and a 5/16" nipple on the other side. I think I can cut the rubber line on the supply side and then splice in a little additional hose with a double barbed nipple and use that filter. I am going to cut it out tomorrow and see what I can come up with. I will post the part number of the filter and try to get a shot of what I did. It looks like this is a pretty common problem. Maybe this is why DII's don't have a filter outside of the tank....things that make you go hmmmm..... | ||
| Bill Ross (Billr) Member Username: Billr Post Number: 162 Registered: 11-2002 |
Kris: I wish I still had the packaging for the fittings that I bought. I got them at Canadian Tire so you should be able to find something at Pep Boys, et. al. out your way. I was using a AC GF481 filter which is the same as the LR filter so I got two packaged sets of a 6 inch long 5/16 hard line and fitting. Now the fitting went into the filter by hand not too far but it seems like it was more than just a couple of turns. I did not flare any of the new hard lines that I cut although the original hard lines did have one. Using 5/16 ID hose make for a pretty tight fit anyway so by using fuel injection spec clamps (360 deg.) I haven't had leak one. As I write this, it did kick into my head that the fittings are called Saginaw flares. Persumably something special out of GM, but they are a combination of a flared hard line with a rubber o-ring in the flare and a threaded fitting with another o-ring. You need Saginaw flares to use either the LR filter or AC-type. One thing to keep in mind though if you are trying to find another filter, is get one that comes off a FI system. A carb system filter only has to handle 6psi and is probably built to go to 10 psi. Our systems run at about 36psi or so, so you need a filter like a GF481 or similiar and FI-spec fuel hose (rated to 300psi). Don't need a high-pressure fuel leak or burst filter spraying fuel around especially back by a hot brake rotor. I know none of this is real exact. Sorry about that, but hope it helps nonetheless. | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 34 Registered: 09-2003 |
I think I have some fittings tracked down. The filter I found, with the nipple on the inlet side and the M16x1.5 on the outlet appears to come from an FI vehicle, but I need to check. That was one of my concerns with going to a filter of a different type. I really don't care if it is a LR filter, I just don't want any leaks. Like you said, high pressure fuel and a hot brake rotor probably are not the best combination. I think we may have found the right fittings in their parts catalog, but they are a special order item. I am going to go and fight the existing fitting one more time before I start cutting anything. | ||
| Jerry (Discovery1) Member Username: Discovery1 Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi: If you use rubber hose, be sure to get high pressure "fuel injection" specific hose otherwise your hose will corrode eventually or in the worst case it will burst because of the line pressure. Generic fuel hose will not work. You can order the fuel injection specific hose from Summit Racing...Thanks | ||
| Kris Carlquist (Kris_carlquist) New Member Username: Kris_carlquist Post Number: 40 Registered: 09-2003 |
The fittings I found will hopefully fit into the existing hose. I am going to cut the hose off, just behind the crimped fitting behind the filter. Unfortunately I have not found any fuel injection hose clamps yet. I have to try a couple more places on my way home. Most of the local parts stores just give me a dumb look when I ask for pressure rated hose or a fuel injection hose clamp. Half of the places didn't even know that there was such a thing as a fuel line repair kit. |
