| Author | Message | ||
     neil harman (Neil30076) New Member Username: Neil30076 Post Number: 18 Registered: 03-2004 |
Just replaced the shocks and springs on 98 disco with OME 761/764 springs, N45F/N46 shocks, it was leaning on passenger side about 1 1/4 inches before, still is, but at least its riding 2 inches higher and looks great:-). Yes, the higher springs went on the drivers side, just like the ones that came off, and as BritPacific instructed. Anyone have any ideas why it leans so much? ground to top of spring turrets on front and back are within 1/4 inch of level, so its the body thats leaning!!!! | ||
| Robert Sublett (Rubisco98) Senior Member Username: Rubisco98 Post Number: 1199 Registered: 04-2002 |
Unfortunately, you need to get a matched set from Expedition Exchange to avoid listing toward one side or the other. I would try and swap your fronts OR rears to see what that does for you. Rear is easier to me, but I ended up swapping my fronts and it is only about 1/2 inch shorter than the other side now. Good luck.. | ||
| Kristopher March (Apexdisco) Senior Member Username: Apexdisco Post Number: 398 Registered: 02-2002 |
I don't know, but I'm expecting my HD OME setup tomorrow. Once I get it on I'll let you know what's it looks like. | ||
| neil harman (Neil30076) New Member Username: Neil30076 Post Number: 19 Registered: 03-2004 |
Good luck with the install, make sure you have really good wrenches ( 17mm )to break loose the bolts on the spring hold downs at the rear, they are a b***h to get at, harder to loosen! Plenty of wd40 on them before you start, and watch your knuckles! | ||
| Sergei Rodionov (Uzbad) Senior Member Username: Uzbad Post Number: 474 Registered: 08-2003 |
*sighs* So there you go folkz, who all been bashing EE for matching sets..  Anyway, Neil, if you think that it can be frame damage - just raise truck by frame on stands (equal height on both sides), and put leveler on it. if its not leaning - then your springs are result. And truck WILL lean if you buy new OME unmatched set, b/c it sppse to lean by original design. You can compensate it by getting spring spacers on passenger side, or by getting matched set. | ||
| neil harman (Neil30076) New Member Username: Neil30076 Post Number: 20 Registered: 03-2004 |
Thanks Sergei, I also find that putting a couple of 100# bags of sand on the driver side in the back levels it out nicely. :-) | ||
| Sergei Rodionov (Uzbad) Senior Member Username: Uzbad Post Number: 475 Registered: 08-2003 |
Yep. Or you can quickly gain some weight | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1502 Registered: 04-2003 |
Uh-oh, better get Maaco | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 323 Registered: 08-2003 |
Ummm- not wanting to throw gasoline on the fire - but I've had my set of springs from British Pacific for a bit now - I still haven't seen it lean yet ??? Same setup - no lean - so I think the whole idea of getting the matched springs from Vendor A or from Vendor B for that matter is totally bogus. JMHO Jeff | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1505 Registered: 04-2003 |
so I think the whole idea of getting the matched springs from Vendor A or from Vendor B for that matter is totally bogus. you think the concept of matched springs is bogus? or you think one vendor vs. another is bogus? | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 324 Registered: 08-2003 |
A bit of both - I just ordered my springs, they showed up - I checked their heights and installed. Maybe I was just lucky and they were already pre-matched. That being said I could understand it if there was a significant difference in the spring heights. But the difference of a mm+/- isn't going to equate to a noticeable lean. regards Jeff | ||
| neil harman (Neil30076) New Member Username: Neil30076 Post Number: 21 Registered: 03-2004 |
hey guys, i'm not trying to get a vendor a vs. vendor b debate going here! I followed the instructions, checked the heights, followed the official LR shop manual, and it leaned. I would rahter have it as the original spec than fake out the suspension with 'matched springs'. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1507 Registered: 04-2003 |
OME springs are designed to be shorter on one side. So if you don't want to lean, that has to be by design, too. If he had shopped at EE, he would have been informed of this and he wouldn't be posting about leaning... | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 325 Registered: 08-2003 |
hell - maybe my frame's twisted then - I can't say as I remember any discenrable difference in spring height. If I can dig out the original boxes I have a feeling it mentioned something about LHD and RHD spring placement. I'd go with Sergei on checking the frame level though. just in case. regards Jeff | ||
| neil harman (Neil30076) New Member Username: Neil30076 Post Number: 22 Registered: 03-2004 |
Sergei, frames level, unmatched springs win! | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 326 Registered: 08-2003 |
Found it sometimes it helps when my son doesn't take out the recycling. Here's what it says - OME springs are marked RH and LH for proper placement in a RH drive vehicle. When fitting to a RH drive vehicle please install as marked. When fitting to a LH drive vehicle the springs may need to be installed opposite from their repsective markings. Please contact your supplier or ARB for more information. Hope that helps Jeff Well at least it wasn't the Frame Neil. | ||
| neil harman (Neil30076) New Member Username: Neil30076 Post Number: 23 Registered: 03-2004 |
Jeff, according to Brit Pac: the springs marked 'left' go on the right side of the vehicle (passenger). Thats what i did.... | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 327 Registered: 08-2003 |
I'd definitely give them a call then Neil - something doesn't sound right. Let us know how you get on. regards Jeff | ||
| neil harman (Neil30076) New Member Username: Neil30076 Post Number: 24 Registered: 03-2004 |
this was their reply: High or low on the passenger side? If it's low you're ok. Based on this, its 'a gona lean' | ||
| Alan Bates (Alanb) Senior Member Username: Alanb Post Number: 523 Registered: 07-2002 |
Might also check your body mounts for damage. My driver side rear body mount on my 92 RRC is crushed shorter by 1/2", so my driver side rear leans about 1/2" shorter than passenger side. You can add some trim packers or spring isolators to one side to level it out. Also get under the truck and measure the lenght of the springs on each side and compare lenghts. http://www.expeditionexchange.com/ome/trimpackers.htm http://www.expeditionexchange.com/genuine/ | ||
| Shane Lesteberg (Snwbord24) Member Username: Snwbord24 Post Number: 158 Registered: 01-2004 |
Alan, I did just that on my "unmatched" set from britpac. Both sides measured the same. So I still don't see the need for a matched set. | ||
| neil harman (Neil30076) New Member Username: Neil30076 Post Number: 25 Registered: 03-2004 |
This a great bulletin board... I'm on microsoft's BB'S all day, and get 1 or 2 replies at the most. Thanks guys, thread is dead! BTW, if you need any help on water cooled Porsche (92x) , ctc me, I have been rebuilding them for years . Neil, Atlanta, GA | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 1069 Registered: 08-2002 |
This is a lot harder than it should be listen to the folks talking about matched sets. Get a matched set from EE (only place I know of) and you will not lean. Get an RH/LH set from any other vendor you will lean. Pretty simple, eh? Other than that there are spacers and trim packers available to adjust. I think DII are better about this no? | ||
| neil harman (Neil30076) New Member Username: Neil30076 Post Number: 26 Registered: 03-2004 |
Bri, right on, and as i said in an earlier post, thanks guys, thread is dead! | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 1070 Registered: 08-2002 |
Not to worry. Next set I get will definitely be a matched set from EE. | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 420 Registered: 10-2003 |
Alrighty, a few things here. I have experience with both unmatched sets on a D1 and matched on a D2. Adding to what Brian said, here are a few simple facts-- 1. OME specs shorter springs on the passenger side, becuase of this your truck is gonna lean. 2. This is not the factory setup on a D2, which is even 3. For you guys running unmatched springs you are either measuring on uneven ground or you have the passenger side rear spring on the drivers side rear and the passenger side front on correctly. More likely, however, you do not have the front springs set in the seat correctly. There is a notch they passenger side sits in and if it does not sit correctly it will cause it to ride higher but will bend the tab down. Either way, this is undersirable. Basically, if you have unmatched OME springs and you dont have a lean, then you have a problem. If you have a lean, you dont have a problem. Oh I could go on, but why? Matthew | ||
| Steve Rupp (Steve_rupp) Member Username: Steve_rupp Post Number: 215 Registered: 03-2003 |
Before you switch springs measure from perch to perch. Your body or bushings may be tweeked. It's not uncommon. | ||
| Shane Lesteberg (Snwbord24) Member Username: Snwbord24 Post Number: 160 Registered: 01-2004 |
"Either way, this is undersirable. Basically, if you have unmatched OME springs and you dont have a lean, then you have a problem. If you have a lean, you dont have a problem" Are you talking DI or DII here? | ||
| Sergei Rodionov (Uzbad) Senior Member Username: Uzbad Post Number: 476 Registered: 08-2003 |
Hey i do not have lean anymore.. Oh wait, i am running green monsters.. Neil - you did awaken the dragon This thread will live on, and flames will be thrown again and again But basically - since you got springs thingy (always nice to know that frame isnt bend. Thats one of things that scares crap out of me), just phone up EE, and grab spacer to level you vehicle. Or just gain a tad bit of weight Sandbags will do too | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 423 Registered: 10-2003 |
Shane, it has been about six years or so since I installed the springs on the D1 but I think the lower spring seat is of a similair design to the D2. There is a notch that the front spring has to sit in on the spring seat. If it is not in just right it will sit wrong and one side can be thus be higher than the other if they are not both sitting correctly. The OME springs will lean somewhat unless matched, but probably not as noticeable as stock. I almost made this mistake on my D2 but checked it before I put it back on the ground and sure enough, the spring had slipped over the tab. It would have made one side higher. If your truck leans more than the diff in spring lenght you need to look into this, or if it leans less than spring length you might have a problem too. If you want to fix the lean then grab some rubber spring isolaters and it should fix it up. But check and make sure your springs are in correctly. Matthew | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 328 Registered: 08-2003 |
Straight from the horses mouth - I called ARB (US distributor for OME) - Now I feel alot better about not getting those "special" matched springs. Jeff | ||
| Shane Lesteberg (Snwbord24) Member Username: Snwbord24 Post Number: 163 Registered: 01-2004 |
Matt, I don't have matched springs and don't lean. I was asking DI or DII because maybe it's not as much of an issue with DII. I don't know, I do know that my springs are sitting correctly on the seats and I don't lean. What did ARB actually say Jeff? | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 329 Registered: 08-2003 |
ARB said that the springs come pre-matched from the factory based on the particular vehicle characteristics. They were pretty taken back when I asked them about the difference between un-matched and matched OME springs. Their response - no difference. regards Jeff | ||
| Shane Lesteberg (Snwbord24) Member Username: Snwbord24 Post Number: 164 Registered: 01-2004 |
hmmmm, that's pretty funny. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1508 Registered: 04-2003 |
LOL, it's not a big deal - if you have unmatched you're fine...they'll still do their job & be springy...you will just lean a bit* You can always put some spring packers in, but the more important question is: Why bother? Just get a matched set next time. KISS principle. *all else being equal, which means that something is awry if you have unmatched & don't lean | ||
| Shane Lesteberg (Snwbord24) Member Username: Snwbord24 Post Number: 166 Registered: 01-2004 |
I disagree Blue. I sit level now with unmatched springs so if I put matched springs in wouldn't I then lean? "*all else being equal, which means that something is awry if you have unmatched & don't lean" I really don't think anything is awry with my setup as you suggest Blue. I've measured 10.5" from perch to perch on the front and 11.75" from perch to perch on the rear. Equal side to side for front and rear. This is from a so called unmatched set from BP. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1511 Registered: 04-2003 |
let's eliminate the rocket science portion of this: were both front springs the exact same out of the box? were both rear springs the exact same out of the box? | ||
| Shane Lesteberg (Snwbord24) Member Username: Snwbord24 Post Number: 168 Registered: 01-2004 |
That I'm not sure about. I didn't actually measure. One had a DS tag and one a PS tag. I installed accordingly. | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 425 Registered: 10-2003 |
Shane, Blue is correct. Unless you got a defective set of springs from BP your truck should lean. The stock springs on a D2 are matched, the OME ones differ in length. Thus there is no way unmatched springs will sit level unless you have the front passenger spring seated incorrectly. Shane in all honesty, I dont know what to tell you, but I am not debating whether or not your truck sits level--I believe you. All I am saying is that it should lean if you have unmatched springs. Jeffs experience talking to them is very easy to explain. The NA office is strictly sales, they have little knowledge about what they are selling. All of the production, engineering etc is done overseas. There has only been an official NA office for about four years. Additionally, LR is the only one they make unmatched springs for. | ||
| Brian J. Rohan (Rover_wannabe) Member Username: Rover_wannabe Post Number: 88 Registered: 09-2002 |
I had a problem with my rover leaning a bit a while after I installed me OME HD springs. The lean was only slightly noticable maybe a half inch difference. When I sat in the vehicle, it sat straight. I have recently taken off my ARB bullbar with 9000lb winch. The Rover now sits level side to side, but obviously sits higher in the front. I believe that some of my lean may have come from the fact that the motor, and the control box for the winch were mounted on the passenger side of the vehicle, as well as my much heavier (33") spare tire. FWIW | ||
| Shane Lesteberg (Snwbord24) Member Username: Snwbord24 Post Number: 169 Registered: 01-2004 |
Alright, so how do I tell if it's seated incorrectly? Both sides looked the same, meaning I didn't notice anything on the install. How do you explain the same measurements taken on DS and PS after the install? All 4 springs appear to be seated fully. If I can figure a way to get some pics of the springs in their seats small enough to post I'll do it. | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 426 Registered: 10-2003 |
Shane if you did the install yourself I would imagine you did it correctly and just have a rare set of springs. If someone else did it then I would check. It would be at the bottom noticeable from the inside. You should be able to see the tab it has to slide next to. If it looks high then you may have a problem. Like I said more than likely you just got lucky with your springs. Maybe one was mislabeled PS when it was really DS. | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 334 Registered: 08-2003 |
This is ridiculous The springs come pre-marked LH/RH or Drivers Side/Passanger side - which indicates that they have a specific differentiation in height to compensate for the possition of heavier components. OME/ARB recommend that for a LHD installation you reverse the LH/RH springs. So please someone explain to me where the matching comes into it ?? Or does OME/ARB have a quality control problem ?? Maybe someone better let ARB know " OME coil springs are formed on precision mandrels and manufactured to the highest standards." At this rate I'm going to end up spending the weekend just taking the springs off again so I can measure them and post the results - hmmmmm not a bad idea - that means drinking copious quantities of beer. I'm also waiting for a response back from ARB Aus. Jeff | ||
| Matt Cooper (Coops) New Member Username: Coops Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2004 |
Interesting though all of this is, is it really worth worrying about? For the record, I have a 1993 200 Tdi. It leans. It rattles. It vibrates (except when it doesn't). Its noisy. It leaks oil from every gasket. The diffs whine a little. Yet its still the best car I ever owned! Matt :-) | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1513 Registered: 04-2003 |
Matt, sounds like your Disco is perfect my point to Shane was that maybe his springs were matched, even though the box or springs were labeled LH or RH. if the spring perches are all the exact same distance from the ground and you put a shorter spring on one side, it's gotta lean to that side - just ask a guy with one short leg what he thinks... Jeff - matching springs is something that some vendor choose to do on purpose so that customers get springs of the same length to avoid the lean | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 336 Registered: 08-2003 |
Blue - two things this brings up now then - my springs were of the same length as far as I can remember. however now I'm even more confused. They are marked LH and RH for a reason as far as I understand it is to compensate for the difference in weight distribution (left to right) On our trucks there should be proportionately more weight on the LHS (steering column, etc) which is the reason for changing over the springs (puting the RHS on the left) isn't it? If you use springs of the same length wouldn't that also add a lean? Since the weight distribution will not of changed. I'm not being akward - just really want to understand this one because it makes no sense to me at all. regards Jeff | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1517 Registered: 04-2003 |
as far as I know, the "handedness" is a difference in length, not rate. is this correct? anyone? I can't recall if passenger was shorter than driver's side....maybe I have a pic somewhere... | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 337 Registered: 08-2003 |
That would be even more confusing - since if they're of the same rate but different lengths it would make sense that you would put the longer one on the heavier side to compensate for spring compression. At least it's a landy - people write whole books on corner weighting, bump steer and roll centers for race cars Jeff | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 427 Registered: 10-2003 |
The difference in height is only to compensate for the drivers weight. That is why RHD discos lean in the other direction. It is not a horrible idea, in essence this way the bumpers sit parallel to the ground so that you will not drag one side first when there is only the driver in the vehicle. What side the diff sits on is not an issue on a truck with live axles, while on Tacomas for example, the front diff, gas tank, and driver all sit on the same side, yet OME delivers matched springs for them, which is why owners often put trim packers in to level it out with a tank of gas. The springs have the same rate. It basically boils down to cosmetics and how much you care about your truck looking level. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1520 Registered: 04-2003 |
 rear passenger spring on left rear driver's side on right | ||
| Sergei Rodionov (Uzbad) Senior Member Username: Uzbad Post Number: 487 Registered: 08-2003 |
Yeah idea of compensating driver's weight is good in theory. On practice - we all weight differently Also on HD springs (not stock smooshy ones) it gets more interesting Then again - i have no clue , since only OME springs i touched were ones from cheap bastard lift that i removed | ||
| Sean Clawson (Jacintyre) Member Username: Jacintyre Post Number: 53 Registered: 09-2003 |
Here's my theory on why Land Rover springs are handed. In the old days of series trucks the fuel tank was on the right hand side. Being that they are manufactured in England and the majority of vehicle produced would be right hand drive the drivers side springs were made to differing tolerances than the passenger side. This was done because the combined weight of a tank of fuel and a driver would cause the vehicle to lean and/or fatigue the drivers side spring faster than the passenger side. I don't think they ever bothered to change this practice, consequently after market providers followed in suit. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1522 Registered: 04-2003 |
Sean is close to the truth - Disco springs are handed because of the way the British Disco used to be put together. Heavy components on the driver's side (right-hand drive) + driver's weight necessitated compensation in the suspension. Component location has changed a bit since, centering the weight more. Or something like that. | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 344 Registered: 08-2003 |
Is there a difference on the height LH/RH on the standard springs ? I'm not at home so I can't run out to the shed to check. But it would seem that if there is a difference in height between LH and RH springs on the ones you took off - and if you are maintaining the same ratio of difference but at taller heights then the vehicle should lean over no more/or less than on the standard springs. However if the standard springs are of the same height (spring rates not withstanding) then the replacements should also be of the same height. I would of thought - boy am I getting confused. I can see a beer drinking umm I mean suspension measuring session coming on this weekend. Jeff | ||
| Robbie Donaldson (Robbie) Senior Member Username: Robbie Post Number: 606 Registered: 02-2002 |
ok, here are pictures of stock springs from 95 DI with about 70k miles on them. Old pictures that I had saved to my harddrive, so I can't go out and measure them cause they were trashed. As you can tell, the fronts are definitely not the same rate between passenger and driver. think the bottom spring in that picture is the passenger (I think - can't really remember). front springs:  rear springs:  | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1525 Registered: 04-2003 |
they look just like the ones in my pic - a bunch of black squiggles...I think this handedness & matching stuff is all voodoo... | ||
| neil harman (Neil30076) New Member Username: Neil30076 Post Number: 27 Registered: 03-2004 |
For what it is worth, since i stated this darn thread, I checked the springs that came off my 98 disco against the OME's as i removed the old ones. Remember this is a LHD ( US ) car. Front Driver side LONG (OME761 marked RH ) Long Passenger SHORT "" LH ) Short Rear Driver side LONG ( OME764 marked RH ) Long Passenger SHORT "" LH Short So long replaced long, short replaced short, The LH and RH refers to an Australian or UK vehicle, RHD so is reversed in US. Also, per Tim Lund at ARB, Seattle, : It is correct that the taller coils go on the drivers side, however every now and then we'll find a vehicle that will need the two rear coils swapped (Rovers and Land Cruisers seem to be the worse).He also suggested swapping just the rears to level it out! I'm leaving as is... And I love them... best $600 I spent so far, and I upgraded the steering damper as well. What a difference! Neil | ||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Senior Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 355 Registered: 08-2003 |
Good to hear you got a call back Neil - I'm still waiting from one or an email from Aus. I think they may be bent out of shape becasue they got beat by England last year in the world cup Jeff |
