| Author | Message | ||||||
     Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2003 |
Now that's no way to treat something as beautiful as a 154CM. That kind of delicate work is a job for a machete. Mind you, it is pretty late in the series... I have #151 :-) Who has a lower #? http://www.expeditionexchange.com/anzaborrego/100_0266.jpg | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 844 Registered: 03-2003 |
What? You never heard of a Militec sandwich? | ||||||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 797 Registered: 05-2003 |
Now that's what I call using what you've got handy!  | ||||||
| Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) Senior Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 312 Registered: 05-2003 |
Pass the Grey Poupen!!! | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 545 Registered: 10-2002 |
That's not a sandwich. It's a C4 grenado with summer sausage shrapnel. The M1 super 90 couldn't keep the coyotes at bay so we had to resort to some 007 tactics. Didn't you know that Maille Dijon is highly unstable? Got Flair? | ||||||
| Jamil Abbasy (Jamooche) Senior Member Username: Jamooche Post Number: 303 Registered: 05-2003 |
The perfect tool to use with any French product. | ||||||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 805 Registered: 05-2003 |
I favor the 310 that John Lee sells for small tasks That's definitely a pic to be proud of | ||||||
| Doug Walker (Dougw) New Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 34 Registered: 08-2003 |
Hey, Jack -- Are those sand ladders from the UK, or did you find someplace local to buy them? I want 4, to double as a roof rack floor as well. Can you clue me in? Thanks, Doug Walker | ||||||
| Clif Ashley (Cta586) Senior Member Username: Cta586 Post Number: 496 Registered: 04-2002 |
Oh no! Deja vu... | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 548 Registered: 10-2002 |
Doug, I sent you an email The GRP bridges somehow never fail to produce controversy. Not everyone thinks they are useful. I do not use them frequently and think of them as a weapon of last resort, but IMHO there aren't too many situations they can't help you get out of if you need them. Of course, mine aren't normal GRP bridges. John Lee has dubbed them the "Leggo My Eggo Almond Roca Waffles" and as such, they hold magical properites which allow me to traverse any obstacle and project coolness far and wide. Here are some GRP action shots from the UK:   | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 183 Registered: 08-2003 |
Always preferred any of these myself http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/level4c.tam?xax=2571&M5COPY %2Ectx=26987&M5%2Ectx=26987&M2%5FDESC%2Ectx=Camp%20Tools%20%2D%20Machetes%2C%20H atchets%2C%20Shovels&level3%2Ectx=level3c%2Etam&BC3%2Ectx=Knives%2C%20Pocket%20T ools%2C%20Camp%20Tools&BC4%2Ectx=Camp%20Tools%20%2D%20Machetes%2C%20Hatchets%2C% 20Shovels&backto=%2Fagcatalog%2Flevel3c%2Etam http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/level4c.tam?xax=24540&M5COP Y%2Ectx=24421&M5%2Ectx=3558&M2%5FDESC%2Ectx=Knives%20%2D%20Fixed%20Blades&level3 %2Ectx=level3c%2Etam&BC3%2Ectx=Knives%2C%20Pocket%20Tools%2C%20Camp%20Tools&BC4% 2Ectx=Knives%20%2D%20Fixed%20Blades&backto=%2Fagcatalog%2Flevel3c%2Etam http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/level4s.tam?xax=13195&pagen umber%2Eptx=1&M5COPY%2Ectx=18048&M5%2Ectx=3214&M2%5FDESC%2Ectx=Knives%20%2D%20Fi xed%20Blades&level3%2Ectx=results%2Etam&query%2Ectx=british&backto=%2Fagcatalog% 2Fresults%2Etam | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 549 Registered: 10-2002 |
if you MUST have a sykes fairbairn at least go with the Sog:  all that Brigade Quartermasters/Sportmansguide/Cheaper than Dirt stuff is pretty low quality. Plus I don't think two out of those three will fit inside a mustard jar which makes them pretty much useless. | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 451 Registered: 10-2002 |
Does the Beretta fit in the mustard jar? | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 550 Registered: 10-2002 |
the beretta is for OPENING the mustard jar. duh. | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 452 Registered: 10-2002 |
LOL- Hopefully it doesn't break as you use it to hammer on the jar. | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 552 Registered: 10-2002 |
"hammer"? The Beretta has 15+1 jar openers in it. | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 193 Registered: 08-2003 |
mustard in the squirty bottle - knife - for cutting slabs of meat of the animal | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 854 Registered: 03-2003 |
Don't get a Sykes Fairbairn of any configuration or manufacturer. Those things are useless pieces of shit. They don't stab any better than a more general-purpose blade but they are useless for slash cuts and for general-purpose cutting. Try cutting anything with a Sykes Fairbairn and you will see how useless this POS is. Try sharpening it too and see what happens. | ||||||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 880 Registered: 02-2003 |
I'll stick with my trusty Lapplander knife, thank you. That thing is 25 years old, has never been sharpened, and can still cut down a small tree..... There is something to be said for traditional tool design that has been refined and not changed much the last couple of houndred years...... - Axel | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 553 Registered: 10-2002 |
"useless" john? what about getting the very last cornichon out of the bottom of the jar? | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 197 Registered: 08-2003 |
Useless John ??? I think there are a number of ex British commando's/Regiment lads out there that would beg to differ | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 454 Registered: 10-2002 |
LOL- I'm glad to hear you're only opening mustard jars with that Beretta. I would be concerned if you were actually trying to use it for reliable self defense. At least you've got the Glocks for that. | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 554 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hmmm, I don't know if the Brits using it is any sort of qualification that it's a quality piece of equipment... Webley, Sten or SA80 anyone? | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 199 Registered: 08-2003 |
HK ? - by the way is a British company now Ummm Sterling Sub Machine gun ? Still widely regarded as a great piece of kit. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 855 Registered: 03-2003 |
LOL. It appears we have an Anglophile here. So the Fairbairn Sykes dagger is hot stuff because it was used by British Commandos? As Jack pointed out, most of the British personal weapons in WWII were pieces of shit. Britain was hanging on by its fingernails and it's basically a miracle it wasn't conquered by the Germans. The Webley? It was a workable revolver, but it was very susceptible to dirt, as almost all revolvers are. The STEN? What a POS. The SA80? Another POS. I don't think there's anything on this weapon that doesn't break. This has been going on a long time now. If you look at British small arms for the past century, they're all pieces of shit. The L1A1 is a nice battle rifle, but that is a Belgian design. The Hi-Power is a John Browning design. The MAG58 is a fine weapon, but it was a Belgian design. The BREN was a Czech design. Let's look at British designs. The Enfield was a British design and it was basically a joke. Enfield couldn't even maintain proper tolerances during production, which is why there are four different bolt heads available for the Enfield. This POS is the WWII version of today's Savage 110. The Sterling? What is so "great" about it? The nicest thing about the Sterling is the magazine with its roller follower. Otherwise, the Sterling is eclipsed by the MP5 in every way. Anyone remember the PIAT? This is spring-loaded antitank weapon. It launches a shaped charge at a tank via spring pressure. I'm serious here. It looks like some Wile E. Coyote ordered from ACME, and is equally effective. Incidentally, Heckler & Koch is now owned by Germans. HK was owned by Enfield's parent company Royal Ordnance for a few years after HK almost went bankrupt. HK had invested heavily in the G11 project and when the Iron Curtain fell, there was no need for the G11 and HK was flat broke. Thank God HK is now owned by Germans again. Royal Ordnance was whorring out HK big time, which is why we have such copycat weapons as the G36, UMP, MP7, MPUSP, MG43, and such hideous weapons like the SLB2000. I heard a while back the P7 is slated to be discontinued in the near future because it doesn't make enough money. I hope the German ownership doesn't agree. | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 200 Registered: 08-2003 |
Wow John - tell us how you really feel And yes you are right HK is now German again I forgot they got sold back in 2002. By the way - on the subject of the Sykes Fairburn - Rex Applegate had a different opinion to you as well ... but hell what did he know - when compared with experts such as yourself Yep the sten was a piece of garbage - but it served its purpose - cheap and expendable - which is why the US patterned the grease gun after it. Yep your right again the Bren was modelled after the Brno - Now what was modelled after the vickers gun ? To be eclipsed by the MP5 is nothing to be ashamed of - especially when you consider the vintage of the two firearms - Sterling (latter half of WW2) - when did the MP5 come out ? Since you obviously have a loathing for all things English - perhaps you should sell Jeep or Gwagen equipment instead | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 856 Registered: 03-2003 |
Jeff, you can use all the smiley face icons you want, but it's pretty clear that you're an Anglophile and you were pissed off that I said the Fairbairn Sykes was a POS. This is especially so because you posted links to the Fairbairn Sykes with the lead "I have always preferred these..." I think it's safe to say that you share Applegate's sentimental feeling toward the Fairbairn Sykes. I think it's equally safe to say you've never even used your Fairbairn Sykes and discovered its numerous disadvantages. So far all you've posted is just meaningless stuff about how the Commando's like the Fairbairn Sykes and how Rex Applegate liked it. This is sort of like saying the Broomhandle Mauser is a superior pistol because Winston Churchill was fond of it. You have never said why the Fairbairn Sykes is a good knife. Let's take a look at this knife and see why it's a POS. It's a dagger. Like all daggers, it's suited for stabbing. Daggers were developed to pierce the plate armor worn by knights centuries ago and were optimized for penetration with all other functions considered very secondary. One could not slash at a knight wearing plate armor, so this was not considered a disadvantage. The main weapon was the blade and there were no guns around back then. But nobody wears plate armor any longer. Today's armor, if worn at all, consists of helmets and body armor. Today we have guns for penetrating these things. The knife is more of a utility tool today. If we use knives against others for combat, it's to slash them and to penetrate their bodies. A dagger a optimized for stabbing, but it does not stab conspicuously better than a generalized blade like a clip-point or Tanto point or a Bowie. It's nearly impossible to slash or cut with a dagger blade. Try cutting a steak with your vaunted Fairbairn Sykes and see what happens. You can't cut shit with it. Try stabbing a steak with your Fairbairn Sykes. Sure, it penetrates. But get a Bowie blade and stab the same piece of meat. The Bowie penetrates just as well. If you want to do something really funny, try slashing a steak with your Fairbairn Sykes. You won't even cut a groove into the meat. The Fairbairn Sykes has a round handle. This is the mark of a knife designer who doesn't know anything about knives. A good knife does not have a round handle. A good knife has a handle shaped in an irregular fashion so that the orientation of the knife is immediately known the second you grab it. If the handle is round, you could be holding the blade perpendicular to the proper way and you wouldn't even know it without looking at the blade in your hand. You then have to loosen your grip on that knife and literally rotate it within your hand so that the blade will sit up and down. You don't have to do this with a good knife. Not only does a good handle shape make its orientation immediately known, its irregular shape keeps the knife from rotating within the hand. The Fairbairn Syke's handle is also flawed because it is straight. The handle shape is doubly flawed. If you want to stab with it, you have to bend your wrist in an unnatural manner. If you want to chop with it, it won't chop well because the handle is traight and you need to use wrist pressure to add to the chopping force. Take at look at an ax handle and you'll see that it is bent at the end and not straight. The same goes for the kukri, which is essentially a chopping-oriented weapon. A good knife has its handle raked slightly relative to the axis of the blade. The Fairbairn Sykes of course doesn't. The straight handle and very steep grind angle onthe blade makes the Fairbairn Sykes a lousy slasher as well. Most man-to-man knife fighting involves slash cuts instead of stabbing. To stab someone you have to get close to that other person and he can slash you back or grapple you. If you slash at his extremities like across his wrist or across the back of his hands, you can inflict very debilitating cuts without getting into his reach. The Fairbairn Sykes does not slash at all. Hang a rope and slash at it. Just try it and see how little it cuts. A proper slashing knive has a single edge with a shallow grind and a curved handle. The curved handle gives more leverage and lets you "whip" the blade through the slash with your last three fingers. If you can articulate why the Fairbairn Sykes is a good knife, I'm willing to listen. Please don't say Rex Applegate liked it or the British Commandos use it. Give me something real. Let's see how much or how little you know about knives. And your firearms history is just as off as your HK ownership knowledge. The Grease Gun is not a copy of the British STEN. It's a copy of the German MP40. What was modeled after the Vickers? I have no idea. But the Vickers just an inverted Maxim. Nothing more, nothing less. No shame in being eclipsed by the MP5? Hardly. The MP5's primary advantage over the over the Sterling is that the MP5 fires from the closed bolt. The closed-bolt blowback principle dates to the beginning of self-loading weapons, not to the end of WW2. Another advantage of the MP5 is that it uses the mechanical disadvantage of rollers to retard the blowback action and this enables the MP5 to use a very lightweight bolt carrier. This jostles the weapon less as the bolt carrier reciprocates within the receiver during firing sequences. But the MP5's operating principle dates back to the StG45(M), which predates the Sterling. The MP5 is really nothing more than a StG45(M) chambered in 9mm. No, I don't loathe all things English. For one, I drive a Land Rover. Also, I like lots of English guns. Check out these threads: ../31524/38222.html"../31524/40249.html" target="_blank">../31524/40249.html"../../clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 455 Registered: 10-2002 |
The interesting thing to me about HK's new owners is the loss of importation of Benelli to new ownership by Beretta and moving FABARM production to Germany- What new shotgun designs will come from the new facility and ownership? You have to feel sorry for the British squaddie of WWII. The PIAT anti-tank gun. You'd be better of just throwing an US Bazooka rocket by hand! The lucky Brit who was issued a Thompson had to have it pried from his dead hands rather than trade it for the Sten. The enfield? I thought that was originally an American design long obselete. I believe the Bren IS a Brno design made in the UK under license. Let's see, current Brits drive Land Rovers and use SA80's and the L96 sniper rifle. They used to have to L1A1 (FNFAL) and the L42. One step back and one big one forward! Who knows, maybe the L85 will be fixed down the road. | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 201 Registered: 08-2003 |
Still trying to put the flames out John - you made a couple of pretty good points some which I hadn't thought of before. FWIW I don't profess to be a knife expert or anything similar. Just like everything else these are a matter of my personal preference - nothing more. Not sure how you'd put an edge on a F/S but mine is sharper than hell. Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I remember the F/S was designed as an effective stilleto type dagger - specifically to hit a number of kill spots - Brachial artery - death in approximately 1 1/2 minutes, Cartoid artery - approximately 12 seconds, Subclavian 3 seconds etc. Not to mention that they are a perfect fit between ribs in order to puncture a lung. By the way I also have an Extrema Ratio Tenberra - which is probably my favorite at the moment - but again just a matter of personal preference. Both the pattern Gollock (the original Martindale no.2 is a piece of garbage) and my kukri - use in place of a machete as both tend to do a better job (again my personal preference). Although I kind of like the look of the camillus machete. On the subject of the Grease gun - The US M3-3A1 Submachine Gun "Grease gun" by Frank Iannamico. This is a great book on the development, design and history of M3 and M3A1 submachine gun models. "In WWII the US Army was searching for a feasible replacement to the Thompson M1A1 sub machinegun. The military reviewed various plans, but they simply could not get the idea across that they wanted something lightweight and rugged, not something that looked good and had a stock made out of polished wood. The British Sten and the German MP40 provided a good example of what the Army was looking for." - ummmm perhaps patterned was the wrong choice of words. And yes the M3 does look more like the MP40 Maschinenpistole. On the same vein - what was the MP3008 ? "This POS is the WWII version of today's Savage 110." Wow I have a 110 FP with new trigger group a choate stock and a leupold Vari-X III - I've never had any complaints out to 700 yards - and I can hold my own down the range against higher priced kit. Pissed off - hell I never get pissed off - life's too short. Jeff | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 202 Registered: 08-2003 |
oops nearly forgot - about the Lee Enfield/L42A1. A the H&H conversion no4 mk1's will shoot 1.5 MOA out to about 650 yards - not bad for an ancient piece of crap. Jeff | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2974 Registered: 02-2002 |
Hmmm......... I'm not gonna argue with John, as I pretty much agree with him, but the only thing I'll differ on with what he said is what you just mentioned Jeff, about hte Savage 110 (but, I'll have to concede a few caveats tho'....) I've got a Savage 110 FLP in .308, also with a Vari-X III on it, and it readily outshoots me. I still have the factory trigger and stock on it, too. Is it a good stock? Hardly... it's rather flimsy, you can squeeze the forearm, and bend it up to touch the barrel. The trigger has a little room for adjustment, but not much, and you can't polish it, else you'll grind through the sintered metal and make it useless. Jeff, you yourself pointed out that you replaced your trigger and stock. As it comes from the factory, it really is cheaply made. However, it's still one of the more accurate mass-production rifles out of the box. They cut corners on the stock and the adjustability-range of the trigger, to keep it more easily affordable. The big difference in the Savage versus, say, a Rem700 or a Win70, is the way the barrel mounts to the body. Instead of the traditional barrel-to-receiver fitment, the Savage has a collar that's adjusted against a chambered go/no-go gauge. With little technical skill, an assembly worker can put together an accurate rifle that way without room for error. If you don't try polishing the trigger, it'll function well. It's not a hair-trigger, but I don't want a hair-trigger on a field rifle, a four-pound pull I find preferable than one measured in ounces. Are you better off to replace it? Sure, if you can do a good job replacing it.... I know some poeple who I wouldn't trust to install one correctly, so, they'd be better off just leaving the factory one in place. Should you swap the stock? Well, the one on it functions fine. No, it's not the finest stock out there, I'd much rather have it in a McMillian stock, but, it gets the job done as-is. Considering I spent less on the rifle than I did the scope, I have to say I've gotten my money's worth, far over, with the Savage, it's very hard to beat it for the money. But is it a Remington 700 that Jerry Rice built? No. I have no illusions that it's such. But it's not a $2k rifle, either. Sure, I'd rather have nicely-built Remington. But my Savage is meeting my needs 'til I get down to the Rem in my priority list (there's a good number of things ahead of it first, lol....) FWIW....... -L | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 203 Registered: 08-2003 |
Leslie - what ammo are you using? I'm alternating between Federal GM Match 175Gr and the Hornady A Match in 168Gr. Then portugese or whoever surplus Ball ammo for fun. Mine seems to like the Federal GM Match best. The AI Arctic Warfare in 338 Lapua is on the top of my (when I have the money to burn list). Jeff | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2976 Registered: 02-2002 |
I've just been using Fed. Match 168 cause you can readily find it on the shelf, but I'd rather use the 175.... can't say I've been keeping up with the skills much over the past year, I need to get back out there and get back into snapping in again.... AI is sweet, definitely make some nice drool-over pieces. I was considering building a 6.5x.284 out of a Rem700 a couple of years ago, right about when we discovered that chillun #3 was on the way, so that idea got dropped for awhile.... I've been starting to pull old ideas out of the woodwork again, tho, so, who knows... probably not anytime soon, but, I'm starting to see if certain plans might be easy enough to work in amongst and without interfering with the other things that have a higher priority..... -L | ||||||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Senior Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 304 Registered: 02-2002 |
Leslie, have you tried hand loading? When I bought my Remington 700 308Win, I started using the Fed Match 168. The best I could do was maybe 1.5" groups @ 100 yards. After I started hand loading using Sierra 168 bullets and adjusting the OAL so that the bullets rest on the lands, I was able to quickly achieve .5" groups @ 100 yards. | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2978 Registered: 02-2002 |
I've been wanting to start for the past few years, but the wife won't let me convert the dining room into workshop, so I have no place I could set up a loading press for now. Once I have a basement (it seems like never, but, eventually), I can have a bench in a corner and start dialing in good loads...... -L | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2979 Registered: 02-2002 |
PS: If I go to a 6.5x.284, handloading pretty much becomes mandatory anyway, lol..... -L | ||||||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Senior Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 305 Registered: 02-2002 |
I'm not that familiar with the 6.5x284, sounds like it would be a good long range round. I've been sticking with the 308Win and 220 Swift. | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2983 Registered: 02-2002 |
It's essentially a blown Swede, the 6.5x55.... just has a bit more oomph. Everyone that's been shooting it says "their wind-reading skills and range estimation instantly improved!".... it's a fast, flat-trajectory round. -L | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2004 |
Damn John... Sweet Gs Adventure Pix, although I would prefer to call it a 'German Stiletto' BT. "No, I don't loathe all things English. For one, I drive a Land Rover. Also, I like lots of English guns. Check out these threads:" ../31524/38222.html"#444444"> | John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 857 Registered: 03-2003 |
"the F/S was designed as an effective stilleto type dagger - specifically to hit a number of kill spots - Brachial artery - death in approximately 1 1/2 minutes, Cartoid artery - approximately 12 seconds, Subclavian 3 seconds etc. Not to mention that they are a perfect fit between ribs in order to puncture a lung." This sounds impressive, but what knife of the same length will not perform these functions? As I said before, the Fairbairn Sykes does not stab any better than a more general-purpose blade shape, but it has numerous weaknesses such as not being suited for chopping and slashing. Here is one example of an excellent blade design: http://www.onestopknifeshop.com/images/ontario/on-bb4.jpg That a Bagwell Bowie. Note how the tip of that blade is on the axis of the blade and not upswept. This blade will stab every bit as well as the Fairbairn Sykes, yet it is a very effective chopper and slasher. Combined with the handle shape, this knife will stab even better than the Fairbairn Sykes. The sharpened clip point also gives the blade some amount of back-cut capability. Incidentally, that knife is everything the Fairbairn Sykes is not. Note the irregular handle shape, with the back of the handle parallel to the blade's axis, but with a decided curve to the bottom of the handle. This knife will stab even better than a Fairbairn Sykes because the user need not cock his wrist in an unnatural fashion to stab with it. The balance of this knife is forward of the guard. The knife is slightly forward heavy, and swings much better than the handle-heavy Fairbairn Sykes. The knife almost moves reflexively in any direction you want it to move, like a good shotgun. Note how the shape of handle complements this knife. The moment you grab it, you know how the blade is oriented. The irregular shape of the handle also prevents the knife from twisting in your hand during use. The handle is slimmer in the front than in the rear, so you don't have to put a death grip on his handle to prevent the knife from moving in your hand. The curved lowered part of the handle gives added leverage for chopping and gives added "whip" during slashing. It's possible to cut a 1" freehanging manila rope with this knife. A 1" manila rope is not anything to sneaze at. I'm very confident this knife can slash someone down to the bone. Try cutting a 1" freehanging rope with a Fairbairn Sykes and see what happens. The design may seem dated and it doesn't have a Tactical Mall Ninja High Speed Low Drag look with a black teflon finish and saw teeth on the back and a hollow handle with a compass in the pommel, but this is a very effective knife design. Contrast that knife's design above with this copycat version by Cold Steel: http://www.uniqueknives.com/media/cs16cc.jpg This copycat looks the same at first glance, but there are several differences that make this knife decidedly inferior to the one above. Note how this handle is straight and has a symmetrical shape. The tapered and irregular shape secures the knife in the handle, but doesn't give tactile indication that the blade is upside down and the chopping/slashing ability are reduced. Also, stabbing requires more cocking of the wrist. Note also that the tip of this blade is not on the axis of the blade. This knife will still stab very well, but its dagger-like qualities are somewhat lost as the tip wants the stab to move upward. The differences between the Bagwell design and this Cold Steel copycat are subtle but they are definitely there. "the Lee Enfield/L42A1. A the H&H conversion no4 mk1's will shoot 1.5 MOA out to about 650 yards - not bad for an ancient piece of crap." Big deal. So Holland & Holland spent weeks hand fitting every component on those rifles and surprise surprise the gun shoots well. If you spend enough time on almost any gun, you can make it shoot well. Enfield certainly couldn't make these rifles the way Accuracy International does. The British armorers couldn't make these rifles the way the USMC armorers build the M40. So Enfield farmed out the work to Holland & Holland, who basiclally were able to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Regarding the Savage 110's adjustable headspace, it's just a marketing spin by Savage. The 110's breeching system is merely a manufacturing shortcut because Savage was unwilling to spend the money to make a rifle with proper tolerances. Chambering reamers wear out with use. That's why some production runs have oversize chambers when the reamers are new and then the chambers get gradually tighter and tighter as the reamers get smaller with use. These irregular chambers require gunsmithing techniques like breeching for headspace to be correct. Savage didn't want to spend the money to make consistent chambers and developed the 110's adjustable headspace to compensate for shitty chamber tolerances. This is merely a manufacturing shortcut, but Savage put a spin on it and touted the 110's adjustable headspace as an advantage. Since when is adjustable headspace an advantage? I thought adjustable headspace went out with the M2. | ||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2986 Registered: 02-2002 |
The point isn't that the headspace is adjustable..... you're absolutely right, that's pointless. It IS a manufacturing shortcut. It keeps the cost down. A competent gunsmith can put a barrel on a Rem700, and it doesn't need the adjusting collar. Savage's point is, out of the box, they can make a rifle that has the headspacing set right, without having to spend as much to make it. Sure, it's cheaper. It's not that it's an advantage in performance, it's a more economical way to have a gun that doesn't need tweaking when it comes out of the box. (I've seen a lot of Remingtons that weren't set up as they came out of the box, and had to be readjusted and tuned up before being usable, but I've not seen a Savage that wasn't acceptable as it came). Not everyone can spend $1k on a decent hunting rifle; but if you can get one for $200, and it'll consistently put you on target at 750 yards, you're not doing bad. It's got a flimsy stock, a trigger that's of limited adjustment, but it gets the job done. Yeah, if you've got the $1k to spend, or better, $2k for something someone like Jerry or AI or wherever, definitely go for it. If you don't have the dime, there are cheap guns out there that can still outshoot you. -L | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 858 Registered: 03-2003 |
I've seen lots of 110 owners tout the adjustable headspace as an advantage. These guys claim that they can chamber a Federal Match round into the chamber and adjust the headspace to match the dims of the Federal Match. These same guys claim that they now have a chamber optimized for Federal Match instead of a SAAMI spec chamber. Or so the argument goes. I've heard this argument from several different 110 owners out there. You're right about the Remingtons. My shooting buddy has a Remington 700 PSS that has a messed up chamber. We put one of his fired cases on a concentricity gauge and the chamber isn't even close to being concentric. Just for shits and giggles one day, we put a NO GO gauge into the chamber. The bolt closed just fine. LOL. What a piece of shit. | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2988 Registered: 02-2002 |
That's crap. Sure, you "could" do it, but that's not the purpose. It's like saying that a Land Rover's extra weight makes it better for crushing your aluminum beer cans than a Jeep Wrangler. If you're *that* particular about matching a round to a chamber, you handload your rounds to match your gun, you don't screw with the gun to match the round, because the next batch of Federal is gonna be a bit different.... I've even opened up a box of Fed Match and had one of them with a primer backwards... real match quality there, lol.... And, even if it's something the company itself is advertising, doesn't mean that's why they do it... they can sing something like that, and how many people jump on the bandwagon.... I can't wait 'til some shmuck says that a trail-rated Jeep's better than such-n-such..... companies can be dilusional about themselves at times.... Exactly on the Rem.... it has the potential to be a good gun, at least it's got an okay trigger and an acceptable stock, but there's a better-than-good chance that it's not as it comes out of the box. Sometimes, sure, you can find one that's great as she lies, but usually you're gonna have to dial it some... At least with the Savage, you know you're gonna get a shootable gun without spending a lot of money or having to have a gunsmith do a thing to it. Starting from scratch, a Rem 40x action, or a 700BDL that's been worked over by a good smithy with a decent barrel on it, a solid trigger like a Timney maybe, a MacMillan stock, a good mount like a Badger or some such, rings set up well, some good glass on there (ie, Leupold... )... you've got the makings of a good rifle. Course, a good shooter is much more deadly even with a crappy rifle than a crappy shooter with the greatest rifle..... -L | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 456 Registered: 10-2002 |
BTW-Apparently HK is NOT moving any FABARM production to Germany. Still staying in Brescia, Italy. Another web rumor that I bought. John, you didn't call me on that crap-are you slipping or what? | ||||||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Senior Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 261 Registered: 09-2002 |
Leslie- Sounds like you're going down the road to a near M40A1 (or A3 depending on your stock preference) one day I keep thinking about getting the parts and getting one built by some of my boys down at Lejeune, but much like you, the arrival of our little one put off the major firearms purchases. And your totally correct about the shooter making all the difference... And just to add fuel to the fire, I have to say I love my Gerber MK II (no relation, sadly) but that's just b/c I think it looks cool and it works fine for opening MRE's, if I ever had to fight with it I think I'd be beating someone with my M9 instead (which might be the best use for that POS anyway...) r- Ray | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 557 Registered: 02-2002 |
damn gun freaks. Ho Chung | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 859 Registered: 03-2003 |
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/DSC09025.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/DSC09024.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/DSC09028.jpg | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 457 Registered: 10-2002 |
I see the P7 and submariner but what does the target look like? | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 860 Registered: 03-2003 |
You don't want to know. | ||||||
| Brian Brown (Rtiqulatendisco) New Member Username: Rtiqulatendisco Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2004 |
I prefer the MK19. Can't beat it for keeping the illegals away from your truck when you're near the border. | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2004 |
A sub with a Jubilee bracelet... what, is that a California wedding edition ? BT. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 861 Registered: 03-2003 |
It's hard to tell in that pic, but that's a GMT Master II. It's the only one I've seen with the pimp gold pieces and a Jubilee bracelet. I think the official name of that watch in the Rolex catalog is "Koreatown Special Edition". Here's a better view of it: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/ics2/PA260126.jpg Half gold GMT with Jubilee bracelet - $6,000. Tommy Hilfiger socks - $30. Prada loafers - $400. Completing the Shaq ensemble with a gold P7 - Priceless. http://www.expeditionexchange.com/ics2/omega/DSC04953.jpg Dream on, Ho. Dream on. | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 556 Registered: 10-2002 |
John, I'm disappointed you didn't catch this timepiece glam shot: http://expeditionexchange.com/anzaborrego/100_0176.jpg | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 862 Registered: 03-2003 |
I caught that. Pah! Talk to my hand. That Breguet stuff doesn't do it for me. Is THIS a Breguet?: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/iss008e05881o.jpg or this?: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/jsc2003e60951o.jpg or this?: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/jsc2003e31964big.jpg or this?: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/GPN-2000-001103.jpg I don't see any Breguet action there. | ||||||
| Ian Kreidich (Ian95rrc) Member Username: Ian95rrc Post Number: 153 Registered: 03-2003 |
How about these? http://www.luminox.com/catalog/catalog11.asp | ||||||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) Senior Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 373 Registered: 08-2003 |
Prices...? ...or should I even ask?  | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 558 Registered: 02-2002 |
oh boy, gun freak and lunatic. Ho Chung | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 206 Registered: 08-2003 |
This thread is starting to remind me of that Scene from Trading Places Dan Akroyd "No No this is a louis fouchard ..... it simultaneously tells the time in New York, Paris and Stadt ... list price of $9700" Pawn Shop "Here in Chicago its worth $50" | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 557 Registered: 10-2002 |
well since Breguet predates photography it's a little hard for me to post a picture of Napoleon with his, but trust me, he had one. as well as many others: "Among its clients, Queen Marie-Antoinette, Napoleon Bonaparte, Talleyrand, the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, Caroline Murat, Tsar Alexander I of Russia, Queen Victoria, Sir Winston Churchill and Arthur Rubinstein who put their confidence in the taste and artistry of Breguet." I'd say they've stood the test of time. but hell, that isn't even my watch so I don't need to defend it. I will say this, "La montre de Danglars, chef-d'auvre de Breguet, qu'il avait remontee avec soin, sonna cing heures et demie du matin" nevermind, Alexandre Dumas already said it. | ||||||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 1027 Registered: 02-2002 |
Apples and oranges... Or should I say French vs. Swiss?  | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2004 |
Damn watch freaks... Returning to the Anglophile matter, on what basis does LR deserve exclusion from Anglo-POS's. (certainly not because, blah blah blah drove one !) BT. | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 558 Registered: 10-2002 |
Bruno,  | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 863 Registered: 03-2003 |
I seen those Breguet watches and I must say they don't do it for me. Sure, they're well made and all, but they strike me more as foo foo timepieces, sort of the like IWC and Patek timepieces. I think Breguet is the luxury division of the Swatch Group, which includes Breguet, Swatch, and OMEGA. I'm not impressed by how intricate a movement can be or how many jewels a movement has or who owned a Breguet. I'm more impressed with stuff like this: "1. High Temperature - 48 hours at a temperature of 160� F (71� C) followed by 30 minutes at 200� F (93� C). For the high temperature tests, atmospheric pressure shall be 5.5 psi (0.35 atm) and the relative humidity shall not exceed 15%. 2. Low Temperature - Four hours at a temperature of 0� F (-18� C). 3. Temperature Pressure Chamber - pressure maximum of 1.47 x 10exp-5 psi (10exp-6 atm) with temperature raised to 160� F (71� C). The temperature shall then be lowered to 0� F (-18� C) in 45 minutes and raised again to 160� F in 45 minutes. Fifteen more such cycles shall be completed. 4. Relative Humidity - A total time of 240 hours at temperatures varying between 68� F and 160� F (20� C and 71� C, respectively) in a relative humidity of at least 95%. The steam used shall have a pH value between 6.5 and 7.5. 5. Pure Oxygen Atmosphere - The test item shall be placed in an atmosphere of 100% oxygen at a pressure of 5.5 psi (0.35atm) for 48 hours. Performance outside of specification tolerance, visible burning, creation of toxic gases, obnoxious odors, or deterioration of seals or lubricants shall constitute a failure. The ambient temperature shall be maintained at 160� F (71� C). 6. Shock - Six shocks of 40g's each, in six different directions, with each shock lasting 11 milliseconds. 7. Acceleration - The test item shall be accelerated linearly from 1g to 7.25g within 333 seconds, along an axis parallel to the longitudinal spacecraft axis. 8. Decompression - 90 minutes in a vacuum of 1.47 x 10E-5 psi (10 E-6 atm) at a temperature of 160� F (71� C), and 30 minutes at a 200� F (93� C). 9. High Pressure - The test item shall be subjected to a pressure of 23.5 psi (1.6 atm) for a minimum period of one hour. 10. Vibration - Three cycles of 30 minutes (lateral, horizontal, vertical, the frequency varying from 5 to 2000 cps and back to 5 cps in 15 minutes. Average acceleration per impulse must be at least 8.8g. 11. Acoustic Noise - 130dB over a frequency range from 40 to 10000 HZ, duration 30 minutes." Those are NASA's minimum performance specifications for any watch to be flight qualified by NASA for manned space missions, and a flight-qualified watch must pass all of those tests numerous times without failure of any kind. The Moon Watch is the only mechanical watch in history to pass these tests, both with the older 321 movement and the current 861 movement. The first watch to be flight qualified by NASA for all manned space missions: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/nasa_moonwatch_s-n.jpg The first watch to withstand the pure vacuum and temperature extremes of space: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/GPN-2000-001181.jpg The first watch worn on the Moon: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/moonwalk.jpg The watch that saved the Apollo 13 crew: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/snoopy.jpg The last watch worn on the Moon: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/salute.jpg The first watch to be worn by both sides during the first international space mission: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/stafford.jpg The first watch worn on the shuttle missions: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/s73e5032.jpg And still worn today by the Expedition 8 flight crew: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/jsc2003e60951.jpg This is truly a great watch. Alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. OMEGA should engrave the caseback with "BAD MOTHER FUCKER". "La montre de Danglars, chef-d'auvre de Breguet, qu'il avait remontee avec soin, sonna cing heures et demie du matin" My French is a little rusty, but I think this translates to: "I just love wearing my fancy ass Breguet while I'm scarfing down a Monte Christo sandwich." | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 559 Registered: 10-2002 |
Well I gotta know this, what about the features designed for space that don't translate to better performance here on this planet. eg: domed plastic face my understanding is that the face on the omega speedy pro and others is plastic in the event it might shatter in a weightless environment and present a hazard if it were crystal. It also seems to be domed out for structural purposes, to resist pressure. fair enough. But here's what I've seen in our own atmosphere: A totally soft watch face that scratches easily and is domed out so it makes contact before anything else on the watch. The result seems to be the watch always looks trashed. I feel like you'd have to polish that sucker down so many times, soon you'd have no watch! What a pity Mr. Bond. riddle me that just cause I'm curious. | ||||||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 186 Registered: 02-2003 |
A little more on the testing Nasa did. "In 1965 NASA purchased five reputable chronographs (one of which was the Speedmaster) from several jewellery stores in Houston. NASA then proceeded to abuse the watches with tests of extreme environmental conditions. Their aim was to determine if a suitable watch was available for their Space Program. The final three contenders for the "Official" NASA chronograph were a Rolex, Longines Wittnauer and the Omega. The reasons for the Rolex's departure were that it stopped running on two occasions during the Relative Humidity Tests and subsequently failed during the High Temperature Test when the sweep hand warped and was binding against the other hands on the dial. No other tests were run with the Rolex Chronograph. As for the Longines Wittnauer : "The crystal warped and disengaged during the High Temperature Test. The same discrepancy occurred on a second Longines Wittnauer during the Decompression Test. No further tests were run...." (Japanese Speedmaster Book). Although its opponents were clearly unsuitable, the Omega didn't come out of the tests unscathed. The Speedmaster gained 21 minutes during the Decompression Tests and lost 15 minutes during the Acceleration Test. The luminescence on the dial was destroyed during testing, but despite these setbacks, it passed satisfactorily. Furthermore, NASA was going to modify the Omega with two changes: a) replace the bezel with a rotatable 24 hr bezel and b) add additional luminous markings to the elapsed time dials, but these changes didn't take place due to time constraints. " BTW: I have yet to scratch my Pro or my X33 and I wear the X33 everyday to work. -Leo | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 864 Registered: 03-2003 |
Jack, Yes, NASA specified a shatterproof crystal for its watch due to the reasons you mentioned. A sapphire crystal is very hard and very scratch resistant. Unfortunately, sapphire shatters when broken and this is obviously a very high hazard in a microgravity environment where the glass pieces would not fall to the ground but would remain floating. The glass bits could easily get into someone's eyes or be inhaled through the mouth or nostrils. The plastic crystal on the Moon Watch does scratch more easily than sapphire. After all, it's plastic. But it is stronger than a sapphire crystal and it does not shatter if broken. I like to compare the Speedmaster's crystal with eye protection. When you go shooting and wear eye protection, are your glasses made of glass or plastic? Plastic of course. Why? Because glass eyeglass lenses are not safe. They are weaker than plastic lenses and they shatter into pieces if broken. But plastic scratches. Who cares? The trade-off is worth it. I would rather have strong plastic lenses that can scratch than weak glass lenses that are scratch resistant. And polishing the Moon Watch's crystal is not a problem at all. I wear my Moon Watch every day and it gets scratched while unpacking pallets or packing orders. I use the Griot's Garage Machine Polishes to polish my crystal whenever it gets scratched. No, I don't put a pneumatic orbital to my watch. I just put some Machine Polish on an old cotton tee shirt and polish my crystal to remove any scratches. I follow up with Best of Show Wax and my crystal looks absolutely brand new. If you want a Moon Watch but want looks instead of performance, there is a Breguet version of the Moon Watch available: http://www.omegawatches.com/omega/co_watch?ID=35896&line=117&gen=G&sublineID=370 OMEGA makes that model available for those buyers who want the Moon Watch but with a sapphire crystal. Frankly, I prefer the original Moon Watch with the plastic crystal. | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2997 Registered: 02-2002 |
Hmmm...... Jack, Mr. Bond has a Seamaster, not a Speedmaster. But you do bring up a point. John here has listed all these wonderful attributes to the Speedmaster, which I do find worthy. I never expect to be in outer space, I don't think a hesalite crystal instead of a saffire crystal (ie, corundum) is a big deal in my needs. However, I am dive-certified. What is the depth-rating on that Speedmaster, John? 100 feet? Would that handle diving? I do believe Mr. Bond made a wise choice in picking a Seamaster instead of a Speedmaster, given his Naval background, eh? lol....... -L | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 560 Registered: 10-2002 |
Les Bright, I'm aware that Bond has a Seamaster. I'm just rubbing in the bond connection for John. He's none too fond of the association. Something about 007's choice of sidearm... | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 11 Registered: 01-2004 |
Omega... LOL, if it wasn't for that sweet Lemania 5100 calibre, they'd still be peddling cheap crap to the wannabe's. BT. | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 207 Registered: 08-2003 |
So let me see a watch that will work even when its nearly at the boiling point of water, In a pure oxygen environment, subject to 40G of shock, subject to decompression and recompression not to mention noise - and still keep ticking - impressive. Of course if the wearer of the watch was also subject to the same tests under most if not all circumstances he or she would be dead. Pawn shop owner "here in chicago it's still worth $50" Dan Ackroyd "oh ok give me the money......ohhh ... how much for the gun". | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2998 Registered: 02-2002 |
lol, I know, there's a quip on the EE Omaega page belittling Bond's choice of a Seamaster over a Speedmaster. The truth of the matter is, I'd say that a lot of folks are more likely to need the greater depth range than they are a hesalite face. IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, yada yada yada...... -L | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 865 Registered: 03-2003 |
LOL, the Savage 110 owners unite. "So let me see a watch that will work even when its nearly at the boiling point of water, In a pure oxygen environment, subject to 40G of shock, subject to decompression and recompression not to mention noise - and still keep ticking - impressive. Of course if the wearer of the watch was also subject to the same tests under most if not all circumstances he or she would be dead." Jeff, with every post you're just showing yourself to be a dumbass, and a bitter dumbass at that. Did you ever think that NASA made those specifications because the watch would be worn OUTSIDE the EVA suit? Sure, the Moon Watch or any other watch can be worn inside the safety of the vehicle like so: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/buzz.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/s107e05060big.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/iss005e21507.jpg In those conditions, almost any watch will work just fine, which is why NASA permits personal, non-flight-qualified watches to be worn on the Shuttle once its safely in orbit and on ISS (only watches flight qualified by NASA may be worn during launches, re-entry, and EVA's). Note the lack of protective clothing in those pics. Contrast those pics with these pics: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/GPN-2000-001420.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/steps.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/evans.jpg In all of those pics, the Moon Watch is OUTSIDE the EVA suit, the same EVA suit that protects the men inside them from the vaccuum, radiation, temperature extremes, etc. of space. How long do you think a human being would last in those extravehicular conditions? You're such a dumbass you don't even remember the Trading Places story. It was in Philly, not Chicago. And the pawn shop owned peeped the watch and then he peeped Dan Ackroyd and then said, "Burnt my fingers, man" and handed the watch back to Dan Ackroyd. He then asked if Dan Ackroyd had a receipt. The pawn shop owner was willing to give such a little amount of money for the watch because he thought it was stolen. What a dumbass you are. "I know, there's a quip on the EE Omaega page belittling Bond's choice of a Seamaster over a Speedmaster." There is? That's news to me. | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 3000 Registered: 02-2002 |
Dman, I must be smokin' something, cause I thought I just read something to the effect that Bond wasn't up to snuff because he didn't have a Speedmaster, and your page was the one I had just been perusing.... Maybe it's the Alzheimers starting up..... Seriously, tho', I couldn've sworn I read that this morning somewhere.... I need to go back and look, see where I did read that.... -L | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 208 Registered: 08-2003 |
John - If you wear an EVA suit while you're doing what ever you're doing that's your business - personally I prefer to wear normal clothes Does it really matter if it was in chicago or philly - never knew people could be so anal Point being if the bloody watch tells time who really cares. Personally I'm less disapointed when my swiss army watch that didn't cost me a dime gets screwed up - than I would be if I was stupid enough to spend a few grand on a frickin watch - but if your dense enough to spend that sort of money on a wristwatch - who's the frickin dumbass My moneys sitting safetly getting interest and making me more money. But you know what they say - a fool and his money are easily parted! | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2004 |
Yeah, right on Jeff ! you gett'em with that 2.5% APR... LOL, BT. | ||||||
| Luke (Agro1) New Member Username: Agro1 Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 |
John - Now you can add my name to the long (aforementioned) list of those who have sported Breguets, cause I'm the one in the picture. Lemme ask you a question; Why the fuck do you need a watch in space anyway ??? I'm sure the guys at flight in Houston have/had perfectly good Timex's to relay the time to the guys in space - or are you inferring the millions of dollars NASA spent on clocks IN THE SHUTTLE/CAPUSULE were not good enough ? Point is (as Jack pointed out), who gives a shit if a watch is capable of performing in space because you will NEVER be able to duplicate that environment here. In the REAL WORLD, on earth - remember EARTH ? And furthermore, it's pretty hard to tell what time it is when your traveling through timezones every second or so... I will not attempt defend my Breguet, as it needs no endorsement, especially not from you. There are better watches and there are worse. That cheesy ass gold Rolex says it all...Couldn't afford the SS Daytona big guy ? Someone should subject you, those Prada loafers and that wanna be gangsta Rolex to "Decompression - 90 minutes in a vacuum of 1.47 x 10E-5 psi (10 E-6 atm) at a temperature of 160� F (71� C), and 30 minutes at a 200� F (93� C). You remind me of that dipshit know it all punk in "GoodWill Hunting" in the bar scene who tries to impress the ladies by regurgitating everything he's ever read and pawning it off as his own - or in your case, found on the net. You've got way too much time on your hands. Get a life. "You like apples ? " | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 563 Registered: 02-2002 |
hmmm... mister baguette, the cheesy ass rolex is mine, and so are the junker prada loafers. and i am not the lunatic one here. just wanted to clear that out. Ho Chung | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 561 Registered: 10-2002 |
what a debut post. lol. | ||||||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 661 Registered: 02-2003 |
IS that the 2 tone GMT master? I thought the astronouts wore Brietlings? well i knew they wore the Omega primarly, but i thought there were some Breitlings in the mix? | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 209 Registered: 08-2003 |
LOL Bruno - 2.5 % hardly worth getting out of bed for Sorry still trying to pick myself up off the floor from laughing so hard - Now I have to rent out goodwill hunting. Jeff | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1569 Registered: 02-2003 |
lol, he comes out slinging dirt. clearly a lurker who couldn't handle "Mr. Lee" good reading. i am not be able to read analog time so this is all very amusing. i think your all fools. rd | ||||||
| Eric N (Eric_n) New Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 36 Registered: 01-2004 |
Rob, you're a G-shock guy aren't you? | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1571 Registered: 02-2003 |
yes sort of. i sport the casio weather station with cheesy barometer/altimeter function that i am so nerdy as to actually use. i'm also a G-string kind of guy. don't miss this deal on the casio weather station ! | ||||||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 1029 Registered: 02-2002 |
Yikes. | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 3002 Registered: 02-2002 |
Damn. I've not had my Seiko tuned up yet, so I've got my back-up G-shock on my wrist. Sigh....... -L | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 866 Registered: 03-2003 |
LOFL. Agro1 lurker? Hardly. I'm guessing today was Agro1's first time at DiscoWeb. Jack showed Agro1 my comments about Breguet being a foo foo luxury watch, and Luke saw red. How dare I say that Breguet doesn't do it for me? How dare I call his beloved Breguet a foo foo watch? "Lemme ask you a question; Why the fuck do you need a watch in space anyway ??? I'm sure the guys at flight in Houston have/had perfectly good Timex's to relay the time to the guys in space - or are you inferring the millions of dollars NASA spent on clocks IN THE SHUTTLE/CAPUSULE were not good enough ?" No, they are not good enough. Timers break, which is why NASA issued wrist chronographs to the Astronauts in the first place. Gordon Cooper used his Speedmaster to time his pre-entry burn when his onboard timer broke. Neil Armstrong used his Speedmaster as a replacement mission timer when the mission timer in the LM malfunctioned, which is why he didn't wear his Speedmaster on the Moon's surface. The Apollo XIII crew used their Speedmasters to time their transearth burn when they had to shut down everything but life support. Shit happens and stuff breaks. The Astronauts also use their timers to measure elapsed time during experiments. The Astronauts also wear several different watches because the ISS is on Greenwich Mean Time and the Shuttle is based on central time and they need different watches to keep track of it all. The Mars crews will also likely wear another watch for Mars time, which is 39 minutes slower per day than Earth time. Many mission tasks are dictated by mission elapsed time and not absolute time, and so the Astronauts also have to keep track of that as well. "Point is (as Jack pointed out), who gives a shit if a watch is capable of performing in space because you will NEVER be able to duplicate that environment here. In the REAL WORLD, on earth - remember EARTH ?" This is pretty funny coming from the Breguet guy who is probably proud of the fact that Napoleon and Marie Antoinette put their trust and confidence in the taste and artistry of Breguet watches centuries ago, as if that had the slightest meaning on watch performance. Yes, this is Earth. We don't have vacuums here. But we do have high temperatures here. We have low temperatures here. We have humidity here. We have shock here. We have acceleration here. We have vibration here. We have magnetic fields here. We have accoustic noise here. We have impacts to the crystal here. All of these things affect watches. You claim that these things are irrelevant because deep down you know your beloved foo foo Breguet won't pass the same torture tests that a Speedmaster will, even though it costs more than twice as much as the Speedmaster. If you like the Breguet despite its weaknesses, that is fine with me. It's your money. But that is very different from saying the NASA torture tests are irrelevant to watch durability and performance on Earth. They are far more relevant to watch performance than saying Marie Antoinette wore a Breguet a few hundred years ago or that Arthur Rubinstein puts his trust in the taste and artistry of a Breguet. If that isn't foo foo marketing, what is? The Breguet is a foo foo watch, marketed in a foo foo fashion, and Breguet's foo foo character and foo foo marketing appeal to foo foo people. Sorry if that shatters your love of your Breguet, but that's reality. "And furthermore, it's pretty hard to tell what time it is when your traveling through timezones every second or so..." I don't know who is lost more, you or Jeff McLaird. This is a very revealing statement. Does this also mean that the Astronauts age a day every time they do an orbit around the Earth and see the sunrise again or that they reset their watches every time they enter a different time zone? "I will not attempt defend my Breguet, as it needs no endorsement, especially not from you." Oh really? Aren't youd defending the Breguet now? You're saying that the Speedmaster isn't all that because the tests it passed (tests that the foo foo Breguet can't pass) are irrelevant on Earth. "That cheesy ass gold Rolex says it all...Couldn't afford the SS Daytona big guy ?" Man, you must have been so hot and bothered by my comments that your ability to read suddenly cut out. That's Ho's watch. Not mine. I would never buy a gold GMT Master, which is even less pimp than that Daytona you obviously long for. Every pimp dreams of a Daytona. Incidentally, which Rolex do you think it was that ate shit in the NASA tests? You think it was the GMT or Submariner? No, it was the Daytona that stopped running the during humidity tests and whose second hand warped during the heat tests. You wear a Breguet and long for a Daytona. Do also read the Robb Report and long for one of those automatic watch winders? "Sorry still trying to pick myself up off the floor from laughing so hard - Now I have to rent out goodwill hunting." Jeff, don't even bother. You'll miss the point of the story anyway. You couldn't even understand a movie like Trading Places. | ||||||
| Eric N (Eric_n) New Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 38 Registered: 01-2004 |
Rob, I have a Suunto X-Lander that does the same thing and also has an electronic compass. I don't wear it that often though. It sits in my watch case next to some other watches that I don't wear. I must say that my Omega has turned into my every day watch. I'm married. I don't see G-strings anymore. I only see the white grannies from V-secrets and thats under the full-on jammies. As for knives, well, I have a crappy ass buck knife that's at least 20 years old. I have used it to open up cans, chop down small trees, and many other things that you aren't supossed to do with knives and it is still fairly sharp. Though I find that I use my Gerber multi-tool's knife more. I haven't really had a need for a combat knife. Even if I had a combat knife I have never been trained to use it correctly so it'd be like having a butter knife anyways if I had to use it on someone that knew what they were doing. I'll stick to just carrying guns. | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 210 Registered: 08-2003 |
Sigh - you win john - you're the greatest - the rest of us mere mortals can only but hope to be as gifted and knowledgeable as you are I wonder could you also impart your knowledge to us "mere mortals" on other topics as they come up. how about an opinion on the relative merits of VPLS and Martini ? Perhaps you could also impart your views on Constraint based routing as it applies to MPLS - I'm sure you must have some stunning insights! One can only hope that you aren't as abrasive with customers trying to buy products from you at Expedition Exchange. One read of this thread and like me they'll be put off buying from Expedition Exchange for life! Again - JMHO | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 3003 Registered: 02-2002 |
Yes, this is Earth. We don't have vacuums here. But we do have high temperatures here. We have low temperatures here. We have humidity here. We have shock here. We have acceleration here. We have vibration here. We have magnetic fields here. We have accoustic noise here. We have impacts to the crystal here. We also have a lot of water here. -L | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 867 Registered: 03-2003 |
Oh, Les, your point about the water. I never got to that. Space watches and underwater watches don't mix. Both the Moon Watch and Mars Watch are not waterproof. They can't be, because to make them waterproof would make the ingress and egress of air pressure more difficult, and the watch could rupture during a decompression. If the air pressure inside the watch is at 1 bar and there is a decompression (such as before an EVA), the air inside the watch might not evacuate quickly enough and the crystal would end up popping off the watch like a champagne cork. Chronographs like the two OMEGA's used by NASA also have lots of routes for water to enter. Both watches have pushers to control their other functions, and obviously these holes can let in water. The Moon Watch also has a manual movement, so the seal surrounding the crown's axis gets more wear and tear than on an automatic. The X-33's crown is a pusher for selecting the higher functions, and so it is susceptible to water ingress as well. That is why your claim that I knock the Seamaster is wrong. I would never knock someone's choosing a Seamaster over a Speedmaster, because both watches are so different and are suited for different purposes. About the worst thing that I can say about a Seamaster is that it's a pimp watch because it's the "James Bond Watch" and it also seems to be a wannabe Submariner and is usually bought by those who want a Submariner but can't afford a Submariner. Of course this is not always the case but I've noticed a lot of Seamaster owners have an inferiority complex and love their Seamasters a little too much, sort of like the way Lexus owners do. I also disagree with you that most people are better served with a 200-meter watch than a chronograph. I use the chronograph functions all the time. I don't dive, and the vast majority of people don't dive. I think a lot more people have a need for a stopwatch than 200-meter capability. | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 13 Registered: 01-2004 |
Damn Ho.. that shit's not right, there you were all good and quiet and the fire comes creeping up your shorts - no respect... As for me, I'm still trying to figure this one out - "LOL Bruno - 2.5 % hardly worth getting out of bed for" BT. | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 3004 Registered: 02-2002 |
Maybe so, John..... I rarely use the stopwatch on my G-shock (but I do occasionally), but am constantly getting wet (either by choice, or being caught in the rain, or the occasional accident), so minimally a water-resistant, or better, water-proof, watch is a requirement. But, I have to say, on a planet that's covered with over 70% water, it seems to make more sense to have a waterproof watch than a spaceproof one. FWIW: you don't get a 200m dive watch to handle being 200m deep. People don't like be under that much pressure (same as for folks that end up in a vacuum ). For lighter recreational diving, you might go ~100 feet deep, which is about 30m. So, a 50m watch, right? Well.... those ratings are under a static load. If you move the watch around while at its depth-rating, it'll possibly fail. Double that at a minimum, 100m, and your watch will survive snorkelling, swimming, etc. Double that to 200m (~660 ft), and it should handily manage most diving at depths that even more experienced divers might go (which will be far short of that 200m). If you're going to be in really deep water, you'll be in special gear, and so rating a watch for any more than 200m is pointless. Well, maybe not pointless, but starting to be excessive for the sake of being excessive. Anyway, like I said, maybe you're right, since most people don't dive they don't need a "waterproof" watch. I go canoeing, would love to start sailing again, in which any of those conditions I would want a watch with *at least* a 100m rating. If the closest you ever get to water is that you regularly wash your hands, then it'd be pointless to have a certified dive watch, I suppose. But I don't have to worry about my watch getting wet if I was hanging out around the pool, either (like if Blue pushed me in or something, lol....). I *really* wouldn't like that if I had a Speedmaster on, but wouldn't care near as much if I was wearing a Seamaster. If I need a stopwatch, I'll use a stopwatch, not a wristwatch. Pushing buttons on a wristwatch is okay in a pinch, but a handheld stopwatch does a much better job, IMHO. So, sure, maybe a stopwatch might be more useful to a lot of people than a waterproof watch. But, if we're talking about useful, why not just pick up this $40 G-shock that I'm wearing, that has a stopwatch and is waterproof to 200m, and use the remaining $1860 for something a bit more useful, like Rover parts? My Seiko dive watch is fine for me. I'll have to admit, a Submariner or a Seamaster would *really* be groovy; but at this point in my life, I can't justify spending an order of magnitude more on a watch that, mechanically and in appearance, is pretty close to the one I already have. Sigh...... as usual, I've gotten into a dogfight in which I don't have a dog in the fight, lol. Anyway..... Regardless, I wouldn't really want a watch that wasn't okay around water, given that I don't live in the desert. IMHO, FWIW, YMMV........ -L | ||||||
| Jamil Abbasy (Jamooche) Senior Member Username: Jamooche Post Number: 314 Registered: 05-2003 |
Something to think about... My father's hobby was flying his personal airplane, someone who could actually use all the features of these watches for what they were designed. He had tons of electronics and gadgets in the plane and a bunch of watches at home. (Breitling, Rolex, Omega, etc.) But the watch he wore every day and while flying was your $10 Rubber Analog Timex watch with the date. IT was a POS waterproof watch that broke easily so he'd buy 2-3 at a time. Why did he leave the good watches at home and wear the Timex? He wore it because it was lightweight. | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1574 Registered: 02-2003 |
Damn that is deep, especially since they are traveling at an accelerated rate they are technically aging slower. eric, i've triend that big ass Suunto X-Lander. too much watch for me. i have been eyeing this up for three years thought. Brunton Sherpa it goes on sale on sierra trading post a few times a year for $100. just never the week i have the spare cash. chances are if you have an old buck knife the Stainless Steel used in the blade came out of a near buy steel mill, Allegheny Ludlum. rd | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2004 |
That's it people, minimize, simplify - who needs expensive watches, overpriced vehicles (several), overgrown homes and all manner of ridiculous self-indulgence. It's not the man with the most toys that wins, it's the one with the most happiness. Damn fascists, BT. | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 565 Registered: 02-2002 |
damn martians. say bruno, you seem to be a pretty happy guy... but i assume part of that happiness has nothing to do with hmmm... you know... bikes? Ho Chung | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 562 Registered: 10-2002 |
...or three rovers. | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 566 Registered: 02-2002 |
i dont' know jack, 3 rovers is more like a torture no? now, one rover and one porsche... that could bring some happiness.Ho Chung | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2004 |
Ok , Ok, on a more serious note, (I'll stop being a hypocrite). We all have our distinct preferences. In many instances there just is not a methodical 'research program' involved with a particular preference or purchase, for various reasons, time, level of interest, cost, etc. Heated debate ensues when one attempts to defend his/hers preference with logical, factual data, when we engage in this activity we must be prepared to bring fourth cold, hard facts that can be sustained or face the possibility of looking like an ass. I don't think John L gives a shit if you buy a Breitling, Bulova, or a Breguet, however, he has a fair level of knowledge that is factual and allows him to debate with confidence. I buy what I like (and can afford) sometimes with a lesser degree of research and sometimes with more careful consideration, that's nobody's business but mine and my accountant's, I don't feel a compelling urge to debate the technical aspects of my personal preferences or purchases, I got it, cause I like it - end of story. So in conclusion... be prepared to back up your statements or risk loosing your G-string. BT. | ||||||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 95 Registered: 11-2003 |
Coming late to the party... "Decompression - 90 minutes in a vacuum of 1.47 x 10E-5 psi (10 E-6 atm) at a temperature of 160� F (71� C)" Umm, if there are bugger all air molecules around anyway, then what do I care how hot they are? I would have thought it would be the radiation I would be worried about... And, for the record. Seeing as we all seem to care about this issue. I'll come out of the closet... I usually don't wear a watch. My cellphone or my vehicle clock or my radio or my laptop or my VoIP phone or central dispatch or erewhon can be relied upon to be synchronised better anyway. I do keep a cloth/velcro wristband in a tasteful shade of British DPM, with a sixteen year old G-shock inside, in the utility pocket of my BDUs, so that I can put it on and use it as needed. It's currently set to EDT, but I compensate for that using my noggin, and anyway taking pulses doesn't need absolute measurement of time just relative. And for those moments when I wish to wear a halfway respectable looking watch, but don't wish to wear something with more knobs and buttons on it than my rover, and also don't want to have to feel like I am weightlifting, and also want to have a 24-hour digital display because I like digital displays, and don't always have a window nearby, I use a Rado ceramic jobby of god-knows-what-model-number. Which seems to do a perfectly good job of standing up in water pressures of 50 feet or so. And which I would not wear when diving. The only downside I have perceived with it is that the luminescence on the hands leaves a lot to be desired. One of these days when my G-shock shuffles off its mortal coil I shall have to get a tritium capsule based thingummy -- one of the traser jobs -- I forget the name of the company that does these, but anywhere they are cute, and can double as signal lights -- the one I saw was brighter than my (admittedly fairly old) betalight. OK, I'm done. Standing down from the soapbox. | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 564 Registered: 10-2002 |
Well Ho, it has brought happiness to me. But if that happiness ever runs short I'm happy to know that you have more for sale: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/aaronshrier/DSC08907.jpg | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 3011 Registered: 02-2002 |
One of these days when my G-shock shuffles off its mortal coil Planning on waiting awhile? Mine's a decade old thus far, and as-of-yet giving me no reason to believe that it's not gonna keep on going for several more.... -L | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2004 |
Drool... Damn Jack - GS ADV. with Jesse's and an Aerostich Roadcrafter, living right ! Here's some Happiness - not for sale..  | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 565 Registered: 10-2002 |
So John, just how many gallons of Tang do you consume in a given year? Bruno, That's actually Aaron Shrier. Also the proud owner of a slick looking 03 Disco. I can't tell what product the Korean street vendor is offering to the rider, but it just might be a P7. | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 571 Registered: 02-2002 |
oh boy. i am all quiet here, minding my own goddamn bidness. ok? Ho Chung | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 17 Registered: 01-2004 |
Judging by the absence of a Rolex on his wrist, not much 'TANG' consumption at his place...LOL, Jack, That settles it! we've got to get you on an adventure tourer. BT. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 868 Registered: 03-2003 |
"on a planet that's covered with over 70% water, it seems to make more sense to have a waterproof watch than a spaceproof one." That's a very interesting way to frame it, for two reasons. First is the 70% water business. This is sort like my arguing that because you spend 99.99999999999999% of your life out of the water, you don't need a waterproof watch. Of course this is absurd. Waterproof watches obviously have their place, and not just by professional divers who go 20,000 leagues under the sea. Second is the waterproof watch vs. spaceproof watch comparison. If you frame it as being between a waterproof watch or a spaceproof watch, then of course I can't disagree with you. How many of us are going to do an EVA? I think a more realistic comparison is between a waterproof watch vs. a chronograph (which by nature is not waterproof). The Speedmaster is indeed a space watch, because it is used in space. But it was a chronograph first. The Speedmaster was just an off-the-shelf chronograph and not a watch designed specifically for space use. NASA didn't make any design changes to it and nothing has really changed on it since before NASA adopted it. Sure, the crystal is plastic and this is very suited for safety in microgravity, but OMEGA didn't make the Speedmaster's crystal plastic for that reason. Rather, OMEGA fitted a domed plastic crystal to the Speedmaster for strength. This is no different from Rolex fitting its Explorer with a domed plastic crystal for the 1953 Mt. Everest Expedition. Both OMEGA and Rolex were simply trying to make the crystal as strong as possible. Sure, the Speedmaster isn't waterproof and this lack of tight sealing lets air travel in and out of the watch more easily during decompressions, but that's not because OMEGA designed it that way. Rather, the Speedmaster, like all manual chronographs with pushers, is more vulnerable to water contamination than a watch like the Submariner, which doesn't have to be wound, has a thread-in crown, and doesn't have pushers. Basically, NASA adopted the Speedmaster because it was so suitable for spaceflight. OMEGA didn't design the Speedmaster for spaceflight. So I think your "waterproof vs. spaceproof" comparsion is a bit absurd. I think it's more reasonable to say that waterproof watches and chronographs are very different watches, and that both have their place. I think most people are better served with a chronograph than a waterproof watch, but that's a qualitative statement and one that can be disagreed with quite reasonably. The Speedmaster is far from being a dive watch, but it's enough for most people. For example, NASA does EVA training in large pools, and the Speedmaster has proved up to this task for the past three decades. I think you're safe if Blue pushes you into the pool, not that you'd ever buy a Moon Watch anyway. Do I go swimming with my Moon Watch? No. For one, I'm afraid of losing it. The Moon Watch doesn't have that bitchin Oyster Flip Lock clasp and can come undone and it's goodbye Moon Watch. Two, I'm afraid of knocking it underwater and letting the water pour in. I don't have NASA's budget to buy a replacement if I waterlog my watch. So when I swim I don't wear my watch. But neither am I deathly afraid my watch will eat shit and die if I fall in the water. If I were, I would get one of these: http://www.redfingerprint.com/watches_detail.php/Bell_&_Ross/Bell_&_Ross_Hydroma x_11100M/HBLK-SB I agree with you that the depth ratings on watches are a joke. I don't know where these numbers come from, but they're sort of like winch ratings. I'm very confident a 200-meter watch can't be submerged to an actual depth of 200 meters, even under a static load. Just take a boat to the middle of the ocean and hang one on a 200m tether and very slowly lower it into the water and then very slowly bring it back up. Don't knock it against anything while it's submerged or even swing it. I'm pretty sure it'll still be waterlogged when you bring it back up. "If I need a stopwatch, I'll use a stopwatch, not a wristwatch. Pushing buttons on a wristwatch is okay in a pinch, but a handheld stopwatch does a much better job, IMHO." Sure, a stopwatch does better but how many times do you have a stopwatch on you? This reminds me of those guys who say the pistol is a lousy weapon and it's inferior to a shotgun or rifle. This is true if you have both with you, but how many people go through life with a long gun slung over their shoulder? A chronograph is similar to a pistol. You wear it rather than bear it. It is there, at the ready, if you need it. The same is not true for a dedicated stopwatch or a long gun. And no, I don't wear a chronograph because I think I'll have to time something on an emergency basis. I probably use my chrono most for things like parking meters and for the laundry. Just for shits and giggles, I take different routes to work and time them to see which routes are faster. Stuff like that. OK, I'm a dork. But I love chronographs. Except for my Luminox beater, all of my watches are chronographs. | ||||||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 707 Registered: 06-2002 |
OH MY GOD...why did I put myself through the torture of reading this post? I must be a rubber-necker..I couldn't look away. I'm afraid that someday when I meet all the EE guys they are going to look at my Timex watch and lack of guns or knives and think I'm a loser. I have so much to aspire to...oh, and I like Tag Heuer (sp)! Guess if it was all women on here we'd be talking about Coach bags and furs. Must say though: I have definitely enjoyed John Lee's posts...is there anythingthe man DOESN'T know?! | ||||||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 708 Registered: 06-2002 |
One more thing...on the subject of product name dropping...I went to my local outdoor store (I was an employee once) and inquired about ordering a Pelican case or two. My friend and owner of the store suggested if I was going to get one to put on a roof rack that I should just get a Yakima Rocket box instead!! HAHHAHAHHAHA. I just LOOKED at him and said...they are crap...and they're yuppie! | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 19 Registered: 01-2004 |
Eat'yr heart out,  BT. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 869 Registered: 03-2003 |
A Timex is preferable to a TAG. Timex is what it is. It doesn't try to be a something it's not. TAG's are hunk of shit watches marketed as premium watches. "What are you made of?" Is this some kind of a joke? I would rather wear a Timex than a TAG any day of the week. Bruno, don't tell me you have one of those cheeseball winders. LOL. | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 20 Registered: 01-2004 |
LOL...What, how else do you propose I keep my fleet ready, and ticking ? (just cause today's an IWC day, doesn't mean tommorow's not a Blancpain Flyback day) BT. I knew there was something about Jack - he's a Porsche guy , I hope it's an 'S'.. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 870 Registered: 03-2003 |
Nope, not an S. It's a Poorsha. A Boxster. | ||||||
| Art Vigil (Colorover) Member Username: Colorover Post Number: 238 Registered: 02-2003 |
Jack, a Boxster? Ahhhhh...NOW I understand why he was so hot when I brought up the "Porshe with panties" comment in a previous thread. Art Vigil Denver, CO Still a 356 fan | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 3020 Registered: 02-2002 |
Hmmm...... a) not that you'd ever buy a Moon Watch anyway. True, given that we're putting realistic budget issues aside - if I was going to spend that kind of money on a watch, it would be for a Seamaster or a Submariner instead of a Moon Watch, just because of my preferences. Not that a Moon Watch wouldn't be neat to have so you could say "this is THE Moon Watch", but, it'd do nothing more for me than the others do. b) but how many times do you have a stopwatch on you? I've got a stopwatch in a gear-bag, and have had it whenever I've "needed" it. Back when running, doing laps (which hasn't been any time recently), timing water velocity from mine voids, etc. etc. No, I don't keep it with me 24/7. However.... I kind of do the same thing you do, trying things to entertain yourself on the way to work; but instead of using a stopwatch, I use just the watch.... there have been times when I decided to time something, usually a vehicle's velocity such as the time elapsed from point A to B alongside a highway to gage the speedometer accuracy, and even though I had my g-shock on, I didn't bother with the stopwatch I just did a ballpark in my head (ie, from milemarker A to B at 60mph is 60 sec, at 65mph is 55 sec, at 55mph is 65 sec).... not rocket science, but rock science... Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate a good timepiece (ever read Longitude by Dava Sobel?). An accurate chronometer was essential for determining where around the world you were (where the sextant was used for latitude, the chronometer was for longitude). Neat reading, how such a critical problem was solved.... with what is really a "simple" device, just consistently marking time. The birth of the modern timepiece, just so you could compare local noon to noon at a fixed location (ie, Greenwich). If you like watches, you need to read this book..... FWIW.... -L | ||||||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 688 Registered: 09-2002 |
"Resist pressure equivalent to a record 11,100m depth (117245 feet)" (the Bell & Ross Hydromax 11100M) That's something I can't live without SC | ||||||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 98 Registered: 11-2003 |
Steve, It seems you have very small feet | ||||||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 671 Registered: 02-2003 |
haha Rocks | ||||||
| Musky Rover (Gumarcel) Senior Member Username: Gumarcel Post Number: 1208 Registered: 11-2002 |
So what is so bad about Tags John? Other than the "hunk of shit" you call it? | ||||||
| Matt Moore (Mmoore) New Member Username: Mmoore Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2004 |
What's so bad about TAGS?: He does not have one. | ||||||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 818 Registered: 05-2003 |
My favorite: Freestyle. Less than $40, swims great, and cleans up beautifully after a day of mud submersion with a scrub brush and a liberal application of Dawn dishwashing detergent. Available in "boy colors" too.  If I could afford my rover AND an expensive watch, there is a Breitling I'd luv to have | ||||||
| Musky Rover (Gumarcel) Senior Member Username: Gumarcel Post Number: 1209 Registered: 11-2002 |
Matt I do have a Tag. I think it is a great watch. I also do have a rolex and omega, but that was all covered in the 2005 spy shot thread I think it was. | ||||||
| David Caton (Catonincarolina) Member Username: Catonincarolina Post Number: 69 Registered: 05-2002 |
Speaking of watches, has anyone got the new wrist net from MSN service? I just got one, pretty cool. Downloads wireless local, national, international news and weather. http://direct.msn.com/  | ||||||
| Musky Rover (Gumarcel) Senior Member Username: Gumarcel Post Number: 1210 Registered: 11-2002 |
ba, that is what my cell phone is for. Just do all that on your phone. It is free and it has a clock. | ||||||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 711 Registered: 06-2002 |
Jaime, my husband has a Freestyle diver's watch and loves it. He never takes it off!! It's not pink though and it was definitely more than $40!! It's been in both the Atlantic and the Pacific oceans so far! | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 574 Registered: 02-2002 |
TAG. LOL yeah, they are great watches. Ho Chung | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 872 Registered: 03-2003 |
Yeah, poor me. I secretly long to have a TAG like Matt. LOL. | ||||||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 1030 Registered: 02-2002 |
John, I know a guy in the Phillipines who can sell you a Kirium really cheap. | ||||||
| John Roche (Jroc) Member Username: Jroc Post Number: 223 Registered: 08-2002 |
This thread made me laugh harder than I've laughed in a long long time! Poor Ho! LOL Watches are pieces of jewelry, some of which serve a purpose. I'll be the first to admit that alot of divers wear certain watches just for the wow factor, but if your life was on the line then you wouldn't want to rely on a battery! I don't think there's anything wrong with wearing a watch because you like the looks of it, and where else can you buy a piece of equipment that has been to the moon??? The Moon watch, like our trucks, is a very capable piece of equipment and part of the reason I drive a Land Rover is because I like the fact that it's capable of doing what it's image claims. In a sea of fakers it's nice to own a real truck! Would I ever go to the moon??? Maybe, if the real estate prices in NY keeps going up! For the record: I don't own a speedmaster but DO love the way they look. I love my poser seamaster, and hate the fact that they turns it into the Bond watch. I do collect watches, but prefer beaters and more "affordable" types. Rolex's are great watches, but not my thing, regardless of price. Not a fan of Tag. Porsche, like Land Rover, made one car the 911, everything else is just to exploit the name. I have yet to find a watch winder that I like. I'd put my G-Shock up against ANTYTHING in a stress test. I bought the first series G-Shock and strapped it to my snowboard binding (Years ago) and repeatedly beat the living shit outta it, and it held up. The plastic casing cracked in Canada, due to ridiculously cold weather, but the watch is still fine. Try that with ANY other watch, I dare you! And lastly, I'm convinced that there are two John Lee's because he could not be more helpful and courteous when I've called him for help/parts for my truck. Truly a wealth of information! Then there's the guy on D-Web!!! Wow! Glad I haven't pissed him off. I'm just curious, because I'm from an area in NY where disrespecting someone is usually followed by a physical confrontation (Read severe ass-kicking). Did the gun hobby come out of necessity??? LOL Those aint no hunting guns. LOL There's a new sheriff in town, and his names John Lee! (followed by the theme from the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly) I'm convinced the first John Lee is the real John Lee. For anyone who doesn't know him, or hasn't spoken/dealt with him, don't let his opinions on D-Web, as strong as they may be, get in the way of your patronage of EE. If you do, it's definately your loss. Quality products, service, and information that is unmatched. John, I'm available as a agent/image consultant/damage control person but it's gonna cost ya! LOL | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 873 Registered: 03-2003 |
Kirium? LOL. I must admit though that there is ONE TAG that I like: http://www.exclusive-times.com/images/upload/20030907232017-109.jpg Unlike the other TAG watches, this watch actually has some personality and is not a copy of another company's design. It has a plastic crystal and is not waterproof though, so caveat emptor and all that sort of stuff. This is actually a really nice watch. If only it were a manual.... | ||||||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 819 Registered: 05-2003 |
Susannah, That's neat I luved your "rubber necker" post yesterday. After reading it, I tried to post a pic of a cheap solution available at Cabelas. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to get the pic to post. Here's the link: www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jhtml?id=0005653&navActi on=jump&navCount=0&indexId=&parentId=&parentType=&rid=&cmCat=search&_DARGS=%2Fca belas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod-link.jhtml.4_A&_DAV=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fconten t%2FPod%2F00%2F56%2F53%2Fp005653ii01.jpg I can't figure out which one I want - these look like great fun Jamie | ||||||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 715 Registered: 06-2002 |
Hahahahahahahahahaha-Jamie, that is definitely a good option for us! John, I've actually never researched Tag watches...now I know the truth. Thank you. | ||||||
| Musky Rover (Gumarcel) Senior Member Username: Gumarcel Post Number: 1212 Registered: 11-2002 |
I have no Idea what they are talking about with Tags. Just because they don't like it doesn't mean you shouldn't get one. I love mine and I am glad I got it. It is just their opinon Susannah. | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 576 Registered: 02-2002 |
wether you wear a tag or a rolex, time goes on ticking just the same. Ho Chung | ||||||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 43 Registered: 01-2004 |
Ho, I'm wondering... Did you buy that rolex like that or did you add the bezel and band onto it at a later date? | ||||||
| Todd Nash (Nash) New Member Username: Nash Post Number: 32 Registered: 02-2003 |
Damn. Jamil stole my thunder about 50 posts ago. I fly as much as possible with my $30 WalMart Ironman Triathlon. It has a great stopwatch feature and Indiglo for night flights. I've worn Triathlons exclusively since 1986. I've regularly dove with them to around 130 feet with no leaking. My first one had broken buttons, but never leaked. (It was replaced only because it looked like hell.) My wife is upgrading me to a Rolex SeaMaster shortly. More distinguished! But, I don't think it has a stopwatch so I'll probably still fly (and run) with my Ironman. p.s. The only reason to read these 100+ message long posts is to watch the master John Lee vivisect his prey. Fun. John, I'll take your challenge later this month on Feb 19th. I'm going fishing and diving in the Florida Keys and will risk my treasured Triathlon to the murky deeps of 100M. We'll see if it survives! Nash | ||||||
| Matt Moore (Mmoore) New Member Username: Mmoore Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2004 |
I used to like my Tag too. Now every time I look at it I feel like I've been had. I'm very disappointed in myself. I should have posted on this Land Rover Forum before I bought my watch. Oh well, live and learn. Next time I buy something I'll know better. What should I have for lunch guys? | ||||||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 892 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ho, nice time piece. mine has gone through Hades for around 30 years and still works well. Jaime  | ||||||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 44 Registered: 01-2004 |
Todd, you should go all out full on pimp and have her get you the Rolex Oyster Perpetual Day-Date Special Edition 39mm. It will make everyone bow to your wristinal fortitude for even owning such a time piece. I know I want one.. Oh, and seamaster is omega. Rolex is submariner. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 874 Registered: 03-2003 |
Todd, your wife is gonna score you a Submariner or Sea Dweller? Dude, you're not gettin' a Dell/TAG, that's for sure. Submariner: http://www.subgmt.com/Sub1203/Sub1203_2.jpg Sea Dweller: http://www.subgmt.com/SD0104/SD0104_1.jpg Just to piss off Bruno, get the Submariner with the bubble. Bruno hates the bubble. | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 577 Registered: 02-2002 |
matt, for lunch, i'd suggest you try the new PF Chang's Chicken in soothing lettuce wrappes: quickly-cooked spiced chicken served with cool lettuce cups. then top it off with the sweet and sour pork: stir-fried with pineapple, bell peppers and onions in a sweet sour sauce. that will go real well with the tag. yes jaime, timepiece. Ho Chung | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 578 Registered: 02-2002 |
todd, ditch that dive watch thing. and go for this:  Ho Chung | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 875 Registered: 03-2003 |
Oh man, the Rick James Guide To Wristwatches comes out once again. | ||||||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 893 Registered: 02-2002 |
ahhhh. platinum Jaime | ||||||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1416 Registered: 02-2002 |
How can you tell that's platinum? | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 876 Registered: 03-2003 |
LOL. | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 3032 Registered: 02-2002 |
Gotta admit, I like those two you posted, John.... I see what Seiko was stylin' after when they made my watch.... the current version has the colors on the bezel that I don't like, my older one looks *a lot* more like those guys, especially w/ the steel bracelet instead of the rubber wrist band. Hmmm........ Nah, I'll stick with the Seiko for now, since I already have it..... -L | ||||||
| David Caton (Catonincarolina) Member Username: Catonincarolina Post Number: 70 Registered: 05-2002 |
Ho - Your making me hungry with the PF Chang's talk. Those wraps are great. And I just got back form lunch! | ||||||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 45 Registered: 01-2004 |
Todd, you'll like my choice better. It's got stones and gold. If you're going to get a rolex go all out pimp. John, I think the rolex I suggested is actually the Rick James/Bobby Brown edition only theirs were in that gold nugget look. | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 3033 Registered: 02-2002 |
Correction: Found it, still w/o color: http://www.seikousa.com/Product.aspx?productId=113 Mine's older, only has the date, not the day. After I wore the band out the first time, I replaced it with the steel bracelet like the ones on those two Rolexes..... Anyway, it's owned, not a debt. FWIW.... -L | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 579 Registered: 02-2002 |
oh shit, LOL oh, how about this, Orange Flavored Chicken: Tender, juicy chicken pieces lightly battered and fried, saute�d in a sweet and mildly spicy chili sauce with scallions. Ho Chung | ||||||
| David Caton (Catonincarolina) Member Username: Catonincarolina Post Number: 71 Registered: 05-2002 |
Ho - I might have to leave work and go get PEKING DUMPLINGS Crescent shaped dumplings filled with ground pork and vegetables and the ORANGE PEEL CHICKEN Tossed with orange peel and chili peppers for a spicy/citrus combination yum! - | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 460 Registered: 10-2002 |
The Monaco? Been watching Steve Mcqueen movies, John? | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 580 Registered: 02-2002 |
hmmm, orange peel chicken... panda express doesn't have that one. is it a new item in the menu? Ho Chung | ||||||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 46 Registered: 01-2004 |
Good thing that I'm going out for drinks in a few minutes. You all are making me hungry. | ||||||
| David Caton (Catonincarolina) Member Username: Catonincarolina Post Number: 72 Registered: 05-2002 |
yes , had it last time I was there. They added a few new things. http://www.pfchangs.com/cuisine/menu_main.jsp | ||||||
| Matt Moore (Mmoore) New Member Username: Mmoore Post Number: 17 Registered: 01-2004 |
Yeah I'm going to go drink myself stupider than I was when I bought this POS Swiss watch. | ||||||
| David Caton (Catonincarolina) Member Username: Catonincarolina Post Number: 73 Registered: 05-2002 |
John like the Monaco, but like the monza more.  | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 581 Registered: 02-2002 |
david, i was referring to http://www.pandaexpress.com/default.asp?nav=food Ho Chung | ||||||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 821 Registered: 05-2003 |
Every now and again there comes a graphic so good the fresh concept blows you away. The University of Poland science students have finally finished their digital clock they have been working on for 4 years. Go to this site to see the results: http://www.yugop.com/ver3/stuff/03/fla.html This is a real clock, and it ' s pretty cool | ||||||
| David Caton (Catonincarolina) Member Username: Catonincarolina Post Number: 74 Registered: 05-2002 |
Ho - My bad! Just thinking to much about those dumplings at PF Chang's. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 877 Registered: 03-2003 |
David, that TAG Monza and PF Chang's will go together perfectly. Don't forget to complete the ensemble with a pair of these: http://www.snowpeak.com/News/sct003.html "Close your fingers gently and pick up the fragrance of 5,000 years of history. A pair of bamboo chopsticks inserted slowly into Oriental history of development. The balance of equal lengths in your hands, one carries diligence and wisdom, the other peace and friendship. Together, they raise the history and culture of a people." I think that beats even the "Arthur Rubinstein puts his trust in the taste and artistry of Breguet" sales pitch for the Cheeseball Marketing of the Year Award. | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 21 Registered: 01-2004 |
damn... "Porsche, like Land Rover, made one car the 911, everything else is just to exploit the name." Here goes all my shit, (Jack's too!) everything's for sale - watches, winders, cars, hell - I don't think I even eat at the right places. I'm left with a damn G-shock and 'Maybe' one Rover, question is which one ? Please... not the goddamn bubble... | ||||||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1221 Registered: 04-2003 |
they're fuckin chopsticks, for Christ's sake. Not like it's a watch..... | ||||||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1222 Registered: 04-2003 |
and this is great from way up there somewhere: Personally I'm less disapointed when my swiss army watch that didn't cost me a dime gets screwed up - than I would be if I was stupid enough to spend a few grand on a frickin watch - but if your dense enough to spend that sort of money on a wristwatch - who's the frickin dumbass My moneys sitting safetly getting interest and making me more money. You sound like a miserly little old lady. Shit man, a watch can be more than a simple time device. There are people who spend small fortunes on even more obscure shit like socks (e.g. that Ho Chung guy). | ||||||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1417 Registered: 02-2002 |
Come on then who's gonna answer my question? | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 878 Registered: 03-2003 |
If you have to ask.... | ||||||
| Glenn Guinto (Glenn) Senior Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 820 Registered: 02-2002 |
Those socks that Ho was wearing in that pic helped Tommy buy that Enzo! Glenn | ||||||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 894 Registered: 02-2002 |
ok Dean, As I'm the one who stated it, that timepiece is a pretty exclusive one even by Rolex. Rolex likes ss, ss and gold, pink gold, solid gold and usually diamonds and other precious stones on their pieces. as in other jewerly, platinum is becoming more desireable so Rolex is making the watch Ho showed out of it. there also is a ice blue face on it which is very cool. so, its not ss, not ss & gold, not pink gold, not solid gold which leaves platinum. and I also mentioned that I've had a Rolex for over 30 years so you could guess I kinda like them and might keep abreast on them. Jaime  | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 22 Registered: 01-2004 |
Dean, they spend lots of time online, learning these things,  | ||||||
| Sean Clawson (Jacintyre) Member Username: Jacintyre Post Number: 45 Registered: 09-2003 |
Leslie, That looks alot like my watch. Mine has the multi color bezel, date and day(switch between abbr. and roman numeral). I bought it from my cousin for $20 two decades ago (OK only 19 years) and he bought while in the navy two/three years prior. Still runs fine. I'll have it fixed if it ever goes, rather than buy a new one. Its a good watch. | ||||||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 895 Registered: 02-2002 |
ah yes - the elusive "they". just so there is no mis-understanding on the "they" here,  Bruno Jaime | ||||||
| Chris von C. (Chrisvonc) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Chrisvonc Post Number: 390 Registered: 07-2002 |
I used to wear a swatch. Now I have a LR watch. Am I bad ass or what... | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 23 Registered: 01-2004 |
LOL, I had it coming... No offense intended ! BT. | ||||||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1418 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jaime, Just looking at that picture, in black and white, how are you telling me the crystal is pale blue? How are you gonna tell that its platinum and not white gold? LMFAOoooooooooooooooooooooofffffffff! Dean | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 583 Registered: 02-2002 |
sure they were made in white gold as well. but who cares for the white gold anyways. PLATINUM IT IS! Ho Chung | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 879 Registered: 03-2003 |
Yeah, Dean, that's hilarious. | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 584 Registered: 02-2002 |
laughing is good. Ho Chung | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 586 Registered: 02-2002 |
wanna laugh some more?  Ho Chung | ||||||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1419 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ok so Blue Boy, If you have prior knowledge of this particular watch, why don't you just say so, rather than writing up a detailed pile of bullshit stating how you would 'deduce' this! And your deduction doesn't really follow from a black and white pic does it anyway! Again - LMFAO! | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 587 Registered: 02-2002 |
WTF? Ho Chung | ||||||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) Senior Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 378 Registered: 08-2003 |
WOW!  Where can I get a "watch grill?" Do you think it will fit my G-shock? I can't wait to get one, I'LL BE THE COOLEST KID IN SCHOOL! | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 588 Registered: 02-2002 |
doesn't that remind you of the catcher mask? Ho Chung | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 25 Registered: 01-2004 |
What, you gotta marry a Sicilian girl to get that damn model ? BT. | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1576 Registered: 02-2003 |
oh John, Shut the F up,, you bring this up so often that I know you want them. How couldn't you. They're so practicle and affordable you can't loose  | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 590 Registered: 02-2002 |
damn micro cue sticks. Ho Chung | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1580 Registered: 02-2003 |
if you were a caucaziod you'd know the pride of walking into the local bar with your own cue stick in carring case.i have the same pride when i roll into man-chu-wok's at the mall and bust out my sticks. but this has nothing to do with watches. rd | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 880 Registered: 03-2003 |
LOFL. I keep bringing it up because I still can't believe your gullible caucasoid White Man's Guilt sorry ass fell for that bullshit Mr. Miagi Loves Danielsan Fusion Cuisine Most Honorable Numba One Son Fortune Cookie Wisdom Kung Fu Theater marketing and you actually bought those sticks. | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1581 Registered: 02-2003 |
LOL, John, I didn't even read the marketing, First glance and I was sold. I don't dissagree with the marketing i'm changing my white bread to rice. post editing chump! LOL | ||||||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 591 Registered: 02-2002 |
well rob, i've had my own pool cue sticks and even my own bowling balls, but chop sticks? LOL oh, and this thread was started by donald, commenting on the knife. speaking of which, rob, do you want a benchmade? i just picked up a new benchmade, and i don't need the 721S anymore. http://www.expeditionexchange.com/benchmade/DSC03408.jpg it's the one at the top. john put a sharper edge on it. Ho Chung | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 881 Registered: 03-2003 |
"These lightweight, easy-to-carry chopsticks are an incredible travel companion and conversation starter wherever you go. A must for Asian food addicts, this makes an unparalleled gift. One customer purchased 2 sets for his birthday; one to display and one to use." That wasn't you, was it Rob? Don't tell me you have TWO sets of these monstrosities. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 882 Registered: 03-2003 |
And Rob? A Benchmade? Sheeit. No way man. Rob's gone native like Richard Chamberlain in Shogun. Now Rob's all Mr. Last Samurai Shogun Assassin sword now. There's no way Rob would buy a Benchmade. | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1582 Registered: 02-2003 |
yes it was me john, i have one set in my "China Closet" I don't need benchmade, i got this..  | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 883 Registered: 03-2003 |
Sucka, you've been watching too much Kung Fu Theater. That praying mantis technique doesn't cut it. | ||||||
| KJ (Karen) Senior Member Username: Karen Post Number: 218 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ho, that Rolex you posted the picture of isn't so smart. It thinks it's Monday. Karen | ||||||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) Senior Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 383 Registered: 08-2003 |
LOL | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 26 Registered: 01-2004 |
Some suggestions for a valentines day gift: http://www.edelweissbiketravel.com/index.htm BT. | ||||||
| Todd Nash (Nash) New Member Username: Nash Post Number: 33 Registered: 02-2003 |
Oops. I mis-spoke and mixed my metaphors or something. Not getting a "Rolex SeaMaster" after all. I had to ask --> Rolex Sea Dweller. It has a cool Helium Escape Port and can survive big decompressions or some such. Not that I can survive a massive 4000ft decompression, but someone will inherit my watch intact, at least. The "bubble" is a "cyclops" and I don't like them either. My wife is mainly sick of seeing me in suits and shirts and ties with a cheap-ass plastic watch, I think. | ||||||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2003 |
So do these chopsticks screw apart into two pieces for easy concealed carry? Rob -- the rice hustler... | ||||||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Senior Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 340 Registered: 07-2003 |
LOL  | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1583 Registered: 02-2003 |
http://www.snowpeak.com/gear/sct003.html hell yes, Donald, for $20 you can't beat 'em. rd | ||||||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 826 Registered: 05-2003 |
Rob, Do you use any of their titanium cookware? Thanks, Jamie | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1584 Registered: 02-2003 |
No jamie i have not. quality on the chop sticks is great and the rest of the product line looks quality too. | ||||||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 48 Registered: 01-2004 |
So Rob, you catch any flies with those bad boys yet? Wax on Wax off Rob.. Wax on wax off. | ||||||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2003 |
No shit... Hell, I *thought* I was taking the piss. I missed that link up until now. OK, that is way too funny: I may have to get me a pair. Are they well balanced? (You can't use Equal on your chopsticks). OK, OK, now I have visions of sitting down in the Man Wah, pulling out these puppies and assembling them a la silencer onto barrel. Odd. | ||||||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 101 Registered: 11-2003 |
They're a little bit too Japanese for my tastes though. I prefer the Chinese blunt end. | ||||||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 540 Registered: 01-2003 |
When those chop sticks came out I worked at REI here in Salt Lake. I was amazed on the number of those damn things we sold. I would have to hold back a laugh when people asked me if I used them for back packing, I would just say, 'Yes, I love them'. Here in SLC the pf changs is right across the street from the Lemon Grass Thai resterant. I took some friends to the lemon grass and they hated it because they didn't have sweet and sour americanized corporate whatever, but what really made me cringe was when they broke out those chop sticks started putting them together and told me how much they loved pf changs. As for the ti cookwear, they suck, easy to dent and they don't hold heat in cold conditions. If you try to use them for winter camping you can't even boil water or melt snow in them, the heat from the stove disapates to fast from the pot. Get msr's stainless steel pots or gsi's aluminum with the teflon coating. The gsi's won't last as long as the msr's and need to be used with plastic utensils only, but the non-stick is dreamy to clean. So less need for water in the back country, just scrap away the scraps into your trash and your good to go. Finally, Porsche sold out when it made the 911, the 356 is the last real porsche! | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1585 Registered: 02-2003 |
frankyl they are more of a novelty. i mean who is a big enough asshole to use these all the time? but it is great to get the reaction the first time you pull these out in front of friends. i use them once a month or so too when i get takeout or i'm feeeling special thet day :0) rd | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 886 Registered: 03-2003 |
Chopsticks at a Thai joint. That's funny. Thai people don't even eat with chopsticks. | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) New Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 29 Registered: 01-2004 |
I was holding back the heavy artilery, so here goes... CK MATE !  | ||||||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 541 Registered: 01-2003 |
The waiters reaction was priceless, sort of like "Oh man, white people..." Don't get me wrong our friends are great, they are just the typical all american yuppies. By the way they use their chop sticks any time they go asian. It's funny, they own a x5 and are always telling me to get rid of my old disco and step into a new and real suv like a x5. Now I have to run to get my tall skinny chai tea from starbucks while driving my rover and wearing my tag ... | ||||||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 719 Registered: 06-2002 |
Andy, I have to second your post...I worked at an Outdoor Gear store in little ol Lynchburg and WE even sold out of the chopsticks!!! I will admit we have some really nice sets at home...but I don't travel with mine! This has been a MOST interesting and uplifting thread.... | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 566 Registered: 10-2002 |
911 the last real porsche? lol. I suppose no one has ever heard of a little car called the 550 spyder. The design origins of my boxster predate any rear-engine-boat-anchor-911. The only reason Porsche won't put a serious motor eg the 1999 non-egas 996 300hp motor in the Boxster (like Roock does) is that with more power the Boxster would destroy the Carrera and outsell their core model. The only way the 911 bodied car can hold it's own to a similar power mid-engine car is in 4s or Turbo guise where you've got some front wheel drive pull and weight to balance out the car. I'm not saying there aren't beautiful and capable Carreras, but that sure as hell doesn't make the Boxster some sort of econobox little brother. And once and for all, let me get some f'n sports car advice from someone who actually OWNS the car they're touting and has actually DRIVEN the car their bashing. No more of this armchair, car and driver, road and track crap. Just 'cause you heard some goombah on the Sopranos spout some crap doesn't mean you should go around repeating it if you don't want to sound like a moron. | ||||||
| Mahn England (One_iota) New Member Username: One_iota Post Number: 31 Registered: 02-2003 |
Didn't this thread start with a knife? I am now the proud owner of a Laguiole courtesy of my prodigal brother now returned to Oz from France. www.laguiole.com A class act. Another one is the movie (on DVD): "To End All Wars" Kiefer Sutherland plays a character called "Yanker". Before you jump to conclusions watch it! | ||||||
| Kai Dussling (Kai) Member Username: Kai Post Number: 113 Registered: 06-2002 |
who needs the above when you have:  | ||||||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1427 Registered: 02-2002 |
911 the last real porsche? No. The 959 was the last real Porsche. Now that is a serious piece of happiness | ||||||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 55 Registered: 01-2004 |
928 S4 has always been my favorite Porsche. I just loved driving that car. Looks like Rob is going to be getting a new watch to add to his collection now that Kai posted that gem of a time piece. | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 567 Registered: 10-2002 |
So who's the U-Boat captain? | ||||||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 542 Registered: 01-2003 |
Back in high school I restored a 914, hey I was a kid, bank rolling my own car restoration. I belonged to a local porsche club and drove and autocrossed all sorts of cars back then. That's when I fell in love with the 356, the 911 just doesn't have the same class and sole the 356 has. Of course a 911 is like driving a disco compared to driving a series 1 for the 356, as far as comfort and real life practicality goes. I do love the 550, and thought about getting a kit car replica version of one and basing it on a 914, but the closest I ever got to one was at the Blackhawk sale at Hershey Pa during the car show. The Blackhawk is a rare and invitation only sale for very well to do car shoppers. My buddy is in charge of the maintence department of the hotel hershey (where the sale is held) and we would sneek in each year and dream alot. A 928 s4! A real porsche has a rear engine. At least a Boxster has that. Actually I'd take a Boxster, they do well in autocross and need little prep to make them competitive in stock classes. oh yea knives, I guess the only real knife I own is a Kersha amphibian I bought to use as a kayaking emergency tool, good boating knife. I think I used it more to spread cheese, pb, and mustard than for anything a knife is really meant for. But I did show those sandwiches who was the boss. | ||||||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 722 Registered: 06-2002 |
"but I did show those sandwiches who was the boss" LOL! | ||||||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 544 Registered: 01-2003 |
Probably some pickles too ... Sorry Kershaw http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=4000000800 0&productId=34777&parent_category_rn=4500581 | ||||||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Senior Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 278 Registered: 10-2002 |
God, now someone's going to start on what are the best binoculars. For u-boat captains, blue-water sailers, whatever. Actually, might make for an interesting thread. And I've been shopping. And don't get me started on Porsches. Or early 20th-century naval gunnery. The power of obsession, as we've all seen here, is very strong. | ||||||
| Andy Thoma (Andythoma) Senior Member Username: Andythoma Post Number: 545 Registered: 01-2003 |
Brunton binoculars are the best. http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=4000000800 0&productId=47609838&parent_category_rn=4500469 | ||||||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Senior Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 279 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks, Andy. They come with a Pelican case too, I see. Definitely worth a look. | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 568 Registered: 10-2002 |
Brunton sucks. If you want a budget binocular, go with Steiner.  If you want something special Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski... | ||||||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Senior Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 281 Registered: 10-2002 |
Already looking at Zeiss and Steiner too... | ||||||
| Donald (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 106 Registered: 11-2003 |
I am a great fan of *the concept of* the anti-vibration stabilized binos that Canon does. Makes a huge difference to using it. However their weak environmental specs bother me. In practice I would sooner buy Steiner without the image stabilization. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 888 Registered: 03-2003 |
A budget binocular is sort of like a budget torque wrench. It's not money well spent. And Steiner? That's the Tasco of Germany. I like the Zeiss Compact 8x30 glasses for general use. The model with the ribbed rubber coating on the outside. Here: http://www.hotbuyselectronics.com/images/zeiss_8x30_b_ga_classic_c_binoculars.jp g If you want to go full boat stabilized, these are nice for birdwatching: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/iss004e9688.jpg | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 466 Registered: 10-2002 |
I prefer Leica Trinovids and some Swarovski's, Ziess? Depends on which one. I do have a set of Steiner binoculars-after my kids dropped the Leica 10x42 Trinovids the Steiners have their place. | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1593 Registered: 02-2003 |
check www.sierratradingpost.com for some deals on ziess. 20-30% off some older models. search "ziess" | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 569 Registered: 10-2002 |
Steiner is about as Tasco as Facom is Craftsman and Porsche is Mercury. Puh-leese. Steiner's sport autofocus is particularly simple and effective design that won't break on you. And I wouldn't bother with an 8x30 unless you are really really concerned about weight. The performance gains in a 10 or 12 x40 are well worth the size. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 889 Registered: 03-2003 |
Yeah, it's hard to stick to a single brand of optics. For the very compact use, I like these Leica's: http://www.normancamera.com/Assets/product/images/leica8x20bc-bca2.gif These Leica's are nice medium binocs: http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/0d/47/elec-Optics-Binoculars-All-Leica_TRINO VID_10_x_32_BA-resized200.jpg But frankly, I hate those Leica's look. They look like shit. For the medium binocs, I much prefer the "Classic" line from Zeiss, the ones with the ribbed rubber coating. Zeiss also doesn't make the rangefinding binocs that Leica does, so it's Leica for those. For telescopes, I like Schmidt & Bender, but even S&B doesn't offer all of the variations that might be just right on a particular rifle. BTW, rememeber how I told you that EE is a Schmidt & Bender dealer? EE is also a Carl Zeiss dealer. | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 467 Registered: 10-2002 |
LOL-Zeiss... OMEGA... Next I'll hear you're also a Hasselblad dealer and Leica cameras are crap! (anything accepted by the space program!) Frankly, I like the Trinovid look. I also like how the eyecups adjust/fit against my glasses better that some others. Just my opinion. Jack-I don't like the autofocus Steiners-give me the standard focus- | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 890 Registered: 03-2003 |
I still want that AI dealership. That would just be awesome. | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 468 Registered: 10-2002 |
BTW-the "classic" line of Zeiss with the big rubber ribbing are the ones I like the least. I do like the classic compact series of Zeiss (no ribbed rubber armor) and some of the victory series. | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 469 Registered: 10-2002 |
Speaking of AI, I watched the Royal Marines sniper special Sunday night(?) and saw the flinching with the AI338 firing from prone. It looks like a pretty heavy recoil that I'm sure would get old fast. I don't remember that kind of recoil with the Sako TRG (it's been awhile). Maybe the .308 would be a better round. I can enjoy the .308 all day with my SSG with no probs- | ||||||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2485 Registered: 02-2002 |
Saw the same show. BADASS that AI is. The episode prior showed how the Marines designed and built their own sniper rifle. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 891 Registered: 03-2003 |
Yeah, the Royal Marines were blinking on every shot. I'm surprised they can hit anything at all with those .338's at long range. I much prefer the .308 to the .338. Even the .300 Win Mag is too much for me for very precise shooting. (Yeah, I'm a wimp.) Actually, I don't think the .338 would ever get old. .338 Lapua rounds are so expensive you wouldn't be able to shoot more than a few rounds before you went bankrupt. | ||||||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) Senior Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 398 Registered: 08-2003 |
.308 is a nice round. That was my fathers choice of cal. when he was a sniper (many years ago). I love shooting our .308 M1A. Lots and lots of fun... | ||||||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 352 Registered: 08-2002 |
almost bought a .338 Lapua at a gunshow, but came to my senses when i knew that i couldn't afford to shoot it as much as i would want to. ammo is something around $50+ per 20rds. sure you can shoot out to 1.5 miles or so, but there is no way in hell that i could. so i'm a cheap bastard and shoot .308 for now. next questions: SIG's, HK's or Glocks? 9mm, .40S&W, .357SIG or .45ACP? | ||||||
| DW (Dcw) New Member Username: Dcw Post Number: 20 Registered: 01-2004 |
Noticed you guys were talking about Savage earlier. A quote off a reloading forum I have bookmarked; �The savage tactical rifle line is nothing short of awesome, and the Sierra ballistic techs will tell you (call them and ask: 800-223-8799) that the savage line is the most accurate production rifle line going today. These rifles routinely outshoot custom rifles costing five to ten times what they cost. And many are beginning to show up at hunter/bench rest comps, and other matches heretofore dominated by elite custom rifles. A recent issue of Rifleshooter profiled savage's Lazzeroni rifles and the 5000 dollar LZ2000's that Mr. Lazzeroni's company builds. (This was a Boddington article). And you guessed it, of the rifles tested (two of which were the high buck Lazzeroni rifles), the savages dominated. The LZ2000's were accurate, but one savage hung with them, and another beat both customs. I just wanted to mention that there are options for folks who don't have a fortune to spend on a rifle, but who still want 1/2 MOA and better accuracy.� Go here and do a search on the subject. http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/search.php?Cat= | ||||||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Senior Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 283 Registered: 10-2002 |
So it's still German or Austrian things (Zeiss, Leica, HK, Glock, Pinzgauer, Porsche) over English or American things (except Land Rover.) And German naval shooting was always better than British (at least 1914-1918) because of superior Zeiss optics plus Krupp guns. Things don't change much. | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 44 Registered: 01-2004 |
"rear-engine-boat-anchor-911" Damn Jack... Right to the heart man - right to the F'n heart ! LOL, BT. | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 570 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hey, the TT is all about balance Bruno my man. Although in the case of your 993 the AWD is not only distributing weight a little more evenly but it's allowing you to apply all those ponies to the road. Remind me never to go to the track or road course with you, or I'll be forced to eat my words! nice profile. | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 213 Registered: 08-2003 |
Wow I take a few days off and come back to a thread on chopsticks, binoculars and cars. Must be a fickle bunch Since Blue thinks I sound like a miserly old lady maybe we should add cross stitch to the thread. Jack FWIW you loose anywhere from 18-25% flywheel bhp with an AWD system. AS opposed to roughly 15% with rear engine RWD. But you are right on the money the TT is really well balanced Jeff | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 45 Registered: 01-2004 |
"Remind me never to go to the track or road course with you, or I'll be forced to eat my words!" I don't know Jack.. I had an 'S' really pushing me at Waterford Hills, (tight track, no leg-streching room), damn... this guy was all over me ! BT. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 893 Registered: 03-2003 |
"The savage tactical rifle line is nothing short of awesome, and the Sierra ballistic techs will tell you (call them and ask: 800-223-8799) that the savage line is the most accurate production rifle line going today." This is pretty funny. | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 473 Registered: 10-2002 |
I used to have an old savage bolt action .22 that was truly a great rifle-it was made by Anschutz and imported and sold by Savage. | ||||||
| John Roche (Jroc) Member Username: Jroc Post Number: 225 Registered: 08-2002 |
And once and for all, let me get some f'n sports car advice from someone who actually OWNS the car they're touting and has actually DRIVEN the car their bashing. No more of this armchair, car and driver, road and track crap. Just 'cause you heard some goombah on the Sopranos spout some crap doesn't mean you should go around repeating it if you don't want to sound like a moron. LOL  | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 897 Registered: 03-2003 |
For you HK fans, here is one result of HK's being owned by Royal Ordnance and HK's being whorred out: http://www.hkpro.com/m4red.jpg That's an HK M4. Unreal. I hope the German ownership puts an end to this sort of thing. Time will tell. | ||||||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 695 Registered: 04-2001 |
John, Does omega still sell the schumy watch with the big 1? Ron | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 899 Registered: 03-2003 |
Ron, The OMEGA site still has that watch listed: http://www.omegawatches.com/omega/co_watch?ID=12516&line=117&gen=G&subline=373 I've never been into the Michael Schumacher watches, but that one is pretty cool. I like this one better though: http://www.omegawatches.com/omega/co_watch?ID=35924&line=117&gen=G&sublineID=359 21 This Racing Chronometer looks to be basically a Speedmaster Reduced (automatic movement and slightly smaller dial than the Moon Watch) with date function, carbon fiber dial, and sapphire crystal. It's also an officially certified chronometer if this matters to you. The crown and pushers are also a little better protected on this watch than on that "1" watch. This is a sweet watch, although a little small for my taste. This is another sweet "racing" watch: http://www.omegawatches.com/omega/co_watch?ID=972&line=117&gen=G&subline=376 Click on the "Click here to see it work in Java" link and you can play with the split-second function in action by depressing the 10 o'clock pusher while the stopwatch is running. Very nice. I like these wide pushers better than the smaller, button-type pushers. These are all very nice watches, but one thing I don't like about them is their small size. If you look closely at the dials, all of them have the subdials pushing into the hour hash marks or even eliminating some of the hash marks all together. In contrast, the Moon Watch's dial is much larger and much less crowded: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/omega/DSC04953.jpg Note how the hour hash marks are full size, even when they are adjacent to the subdials. To me, this makes the dial look much more balanced and certainly more legible at a glance. I would also prefer plastic crystals on these "racing" watches. It just seems more in line with the spirit of these watches than a sapphire crystal is, and a plastic crystal would also be stronger and more functional I think. But these are merely nitpicks. All three are very sweet watches for sure. | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 216 Registered: 08-2003 |
Also from the HK site - Inspired by the resounding success of the midlife improvement program of the British SA80 (L85/L86) Weapons System, Heckler & Koch began a detailed assessment of the technical deficiencies of the standard US-issue M4 Carbine in early 2002. The elimination of the gas tube typical of the Stoner AR15/M16/M4 <<< direct gas operating system means that the HKM4 will function normally even if the weapon is fired full of water without first being drained. If it means that our troops get a better M4 - who cares ? | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 900 Registered: 03-2003 |
Jeff, Every post shows that you're just a moron. If you think this HK M4 can be fired full of water without being drained, you've got another thing coming if you ever try it. | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 218 Registered: 08-2003 |
John - if you even bothered to read - you would of noticed that I wrote this came from the HK site - You know its really funny - from the emails I've been getting on the side it seems as though you piss off quite a few people. Can't think why.... Not sure who posted this one - but if you do a search you'll find it. "3) And I had no idea how many people disliked John Lee" By the way John - every post proves you're a wanker! | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 901 Registered: 03-2003 |
What? No disingenuous smiley faces this time? | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 219 Registered: 08-2003 |
ooops sorry - hope you're happier now | ||||||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 353 Registered: 08-2002 |
http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/Military-LE/rifles-carbines/m4.html "Unique Features: � Short-stroke piston gas system-- --Improved reliability --100% function --No fouling directed into weapon --Less cleaning --User removable/exchangeable components --Insensitive to barrel length or ammunition changes" | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 49 Registered: 01-2004 |
"I like this one better though...This Racing Chronometer looks to be basically a Speedmaster Reduced (automatic movement)" I see you man... headed straight for that cheeseball winder, you are ! LOL, BT. | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 477 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm waiting for the new and improved HK Krag-Jorgensen... | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 902 Registered: 03-2003 |
I think it's only a matter of time before we see the HK product improved 1911A2. | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 478 Registered: 10-2002 |
LOL-that's called the "Tomb Raider" USP. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 905 Registered: 03-2003 |
What is the USP? The P7 and P9 weren't selling well in the American market because they were too unconventional. So HK combined various designs from pistol designs that sold well in the USA. The polymer frame is from the Glock, a very popular pistol. The injection-molded frame also brings down the cost of the USP, which makes the USP much more appealing to the masses. The operating mechanism is the modified Browning short recoil system with the ejection port acting as a locking lug. This is copied from the SIG and Glock. Americans didn't understand the gas-retarded blowback action on the P7 or the roller-delayed blowback on the P9 and wanted something more conventional. Americans also couldn't fathom the idea of a full-power blowback pistol. So HK went with the Browning system. The USP's safety is from the 1911. HK also debuted teh USP in .40 S&W, which is a very American caliber and was very popular at the time. The result is a Frankenstein like creation that makes me wonder what HK was thinking. HK was trying to make the USP something for everybody. Sure, the P7 and P9 have their faults. They're not perfect pistols. But at least one could say that HK made these pistols the way that they did because the designers at HK were striving for excellence rather than whorring themselves out. The P7 and P9 were genuine attempts to build a better mousetrap instead of copies of other, well-selling pistol designs. http://www.hkpro.com/uspmatchcroft.jpg That monstrosity is every bit as hideous this that Tomb Raider watch: ../27/43190.jpg What's funny about that USP "Match" is that Hollywood didn't even have to pimp it out for the movie. That's actually what the pistol looks like from the factory. Contrat that POS with the P9 "Match" from the days when HK was striving for excellence rather than dollar signs: http://www.hkpro.com/p9ssportcase.jpg I have that pistol, as well as a USP. And the USP ain't no P9, that's for sure. What is the world coming to? | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 571 Registered: 10-2002 |
Talk amongst yourselves. I'll give you a topic: So how does everyone feel about the redevelopment of the intermediate 6mm rifle cartridge? Maybe the reinvention of the 6mm Lee-Navy? I'm all for an intermediate round with more knock down in a FMJ service round but lighter overall weight for capacity. However, history and Mr. Kalashnikov insist it won't work or be worthwhile. discuss. | ||||||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 3059 Registered: 02-2002 |
In the field, I thought it was cool when I got to draw the Steiners. Then I found out that they were heavy, and not that great. 7x50 could nab the light and not be shaky, but they were still big. I like ~8x40. Anything more powerful than that isn't as good at sweeping areas, you're in too tight, and vibes are more noticable. Also, for folks like me that wear glasses, the lower-priced Steiners don't have a long-enough eye relief. I'd prefer something like Nikon's ATB... not a Zeiss, but if you kill it in the field you can afford to replace it. Brunton should have stuck to compasses, pocket transits in particular. Their optics are jsut rebadged bits.... I love my compass from 'em, but it's about all I'd get from them. Never been much into Porsches.... I think I'd probably like one, just never been around 'em. I'd like to have an old Alfa GT rally car, but the Roo makes for an entertaining "rally" commuter, tho'.... Only thing we're missing are Boston Whalers, or Hans Christians..... -L | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 51 Registered: 01-2004 |
Speaking of Boston Whalers, anybody like a 60mph + , 13' Inflatable ? http://www.duxboats.com/sport.htm BT. | ||||||
| Jeff Mclaird (Granitedisco) Member Username: Granitedisco Post Number: 222 Registered: 08-2003 |
Pretty cool boat Bruno. I have a pretty old and beaten up version of one of these - http://www.aire.com/130R.shtml it's been patched a few more times than it should probably of - but it's made quite a few trips on the American River - plus quite a few trips down east Maine. Jeff | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 479 Registered: 10-2002 |
LOL-John tell us how you really feel about the USP? I agree that for a company as innovative as HK has been over the years it is surprising that the USP is so derivative. I'd bet that Helmut Weldle was told that the American's wouldn't buy a new pistol from HK unless it was a modified Browning design (what US semiauto service sidearm hasn't been Browning or Walther P38 action for the last 100 years?). Thus the SOCOM handgun was born. It's a good handgun but when you look at the unconventional P7 or even the old VP70 is it what you would expect from HK? No, you expect innovation. They obviously need money and had to play it safe-no one's knocking down their doors with orders for the G11... Make what will sell. Kinda like Land Rover these days? FWIW-even though I own a Glock 19 and a Walther P99 I'm not a fan of polymer frame pistols. However, I do prefer the Walther to any other polymer frame. | ||||||
| Greg Bright (Gregd2) Member Username: Gregd2 Post Number: 133 Registered: 06-2002 |
I have been really happy with my Sig P229. It has become my favorite handgun over the years. I like the trigger design and feel. I like the single action trigger pull after the first DA pull. It fits my hand very well. It came in .40 S&W, but I bought a .357 Sig barrel and I've used it ever since. I like the concept of this round and it also gives me a little more confidence that it won't jam. I know there is no semi-auto that can guarantee that it won't jam, but I've never had a single round jam. The necked-down cartridge is a really good about feeding correctly. The Sig is a little on the heavy side but I really enjoy shooting it a lot. I've looked at the HK's, but I haven't had the opportunity to fire one yet. We have a local gunshop that has an indoor range and will let you fire some of their handguns if you're looking at buying one. I need to go over and try out the P7, it looks pretty sweet. I'm really looking for a smaller handgun for concealed carry. I have a Sig P239 in 9mm that I use now, but I'm not really all that happy with it. Anybody have suggestions on what they like for concealed carry? | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 909 Registered: 03-2003 |
Obviously, everyone is going to have his own preferences for pistols. Here are mine: service pistol: http://www.vampiregerbil.com/weapons/weapons45.jpg (Heckler & Koch P7 in 9mm) backup pistol: http://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976428904-1.jpg (I like the Smith & Wesson 940 in 9mm to use same ammunition as P7) compact backup pistol: http://www.gunsamerica.com/upload/976281451-1.jpg (Seecamp in .32 ACP) micro backup pistol: http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/jimguns.gif (the Freedom Arms .22 Mag at the bottom) | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 572 Registered: 10-2002 |
Here's a pic of John going to get lunch on Crenshaw with a couple of friends and all of his carry pistols:  | ||||||
| Shawn McKenzie (Shawn) Member Username: Shawn Post Number: 196 Registered: 10-2002 |
The P7 may be more unique and interesting from an engineering standpoint but it's WAY too ugly. Firearms in Canada cannot be carried or used for defense by anyone not in uniform. I bought the USP .45 because it met my needs (IPSC) and I liked the way it looked and shot. No complaints, so far the gun is capable of better accuracy than I am! | ||||||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Senior Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 740 Registered: 07-2002 |
Remind me not to ever go to Canada. Wait, that does remind me, my brother just bought one of those Benchmade fast-blades, only trick is not even a CCPermit would allow him to buy it - he had to show his active military ID. Isn't it funny how they can change the regs on you like that without you even knowing it. So with that in mind, not one of the knives on this thread-o-manhood is legal in Oregon... | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 910 Registered: 03-2003 |
All authorized Benchmade dealers are contractually bound by Benchmade to sell the Benchmade automatics only to active military personnel. No exceptions. It has always been like this. We are an an authorized Benchmade automatic dealer, but don't list the automatics on our website for this reason. Even if we were to put "SALES ONLY TO ACTIVE MILITARY PERSONNEL" beside each automatic, every moron in the world would try to order one anyway. As an example, our Jerrycan page says very clearly in bold, "Not for sale in California" and our Michelin page says "CURRENTLY OUT OF STOCK" but every few days someone in California tries to order the jerrycans or someone calls and asks if the XZL are REALLY out of stock. | ||||||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 895 Registered: 05-2003 |
Doesn't anyone use good old fashioned bows and arrows anymore?? | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1617 Registered: 02-2003 |
are they really out of stock? | ||||||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 697 Registered: 04-2001 |
John Lee, So the dial is small on that thing. I need a big dial (no I am not blind, I am "large wristed" and small watches look like woman's on me). I am working on my "incentives list" to keep myself motivated so I stay at the top of my class. facconable shirts Johnston and murphy crown aristocraft shoes (comfy) omega schumy watch (now what watch should I get?) I knida like this one: http://www.omegawatches.com/omega/co_watch?ID=972&line=117&gen=G&subline=376 new M5 when the lease on the 530 is up wasn't there a different schumy watch? Was that one any bigger? Ron | ||||||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Senior Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 742 Registered: 07-2002 |
John Lee- That's a good policy on Benchmade's part, I did not realize that - a great Oregon Product by the way. But the salesman wasn't as forthcoming as you, especially when it came to filling out the paperwork for the state. I guess I don't know if it was Benchmade that made him use his DoD ID, or the state, because he sure had to jump through a lot of hoops. It was kind of ironic, since even while standing at the counter he had his USP .45 with him! | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 483 Registered: 10-2002 |
I know California requires new sale fuel cans to to be "smog kosher" but why can I still purchase used NATO jerrycans at surplus stores? Are resale cans excluded or are they selling them illegally? | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 911 Registered: 03-2003 |
Fa�onnable shirts? Johnston & Murphy shoes? BMW M5? Damn, man. You want the perfect watch to go with this stuff? Here it is: http://www.thevooner.com/feature/2001/02/01/daytona/day1.jpg | ||||||
| Mahn England (One_iota) New Member Username: One_iota Post Number: 33 Registered: 02-2003 |
Jaime, "Doesn't anyone use good old fashioned bows and arrows anymore??" Therein lies another thread together with one on catapults and sling shots. I'm researching siege engines at the moment and hope to post shortly. BTW I quite like my Seiko. | ||||||
| Mahn England (One_iota) New Member Username: One_iota Post Number: 34 Registered: 02-2003 |
Jamie not to be confused with Jaime, Forgive my "typo". | ||||||
| Bruno Tome (Bruno_tome) Member Username: Bruno_tome Post Number: 55 Registered: 01-2004 |
"SALES ONLY TO ACTIVE MILITARY PERSONNEL" but John, can I get one anyway?  LOL, | ||||||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 705 Registered: 04-2001 |
John Lee, I don't want the best, just the best that can be justified by paying more--the point of diminished marginal returns. Like the shirts (I have recently found faconable) much better than $40 for some brooks brothers crap, well worth the extra money and they come in my size (18 1/2 L). Same thing with the shoes, they actually fit my feet and they last and they look right. They are so well made, and look is just right. I am willing to pay for that. Although, I am sliding dangerously close to metrosexual status--well as close to metrosexual as you can get when you look me. Alyssa is ready to kill me as I have "discovered" Nordstrom and the other nice stores at KOP. Oh well. As far as the watch, Rolex is too conventional for me. I actually have an old rolex (I actually think it is a daytona, how can I tell?) but I never wear it. Maybe I should dig it out and wear that rather than worry about trying to motivate myself with something new. Have to see on the M5 as we have a ways to go on the 530 (which is wonderful by the way). The lease is up about 5 months after I graduate and we will need something else then. The 530 is FAST (everytime I go from the 530 to the D90 I think there is something wrong with the D90 because it is so slow LOL). Any faster I might get myself in trouble, but the idea of the 530 with twice as much horsepower just seems like a brilliant vehicle. Ron | ||||||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 60 Registered: 01-2004 |
Dress clothes.... Yuk. I'm happy with my Asolo shoes, Levi's jeans, Nautica tee shirt, and to add a little bling, my Omega. Of course I don't have to get dressed up for work since, well, I don't work anymore. | ||||||
| Shawn McKenzie (Shawn) Member Username: Shawn Post Number: 203 Registered: 10-2002 |
Eric- retired? .com cashout? kept man? Amway? royalties on that song you wrote in '81? What's your secret? I don't want to work anymore either. | ||||||
| Donald (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 108 Registered: 11-2003 |
> I know California requires new sale fuel cans to to be "smog kosher" but why can I still purchase used NATO jerrycans at surplus stores? Are resale cans excluded or are they selling them illegally? Umm, so now I am confused... I had noticed this thing previously about jerries being banned in California, on the New Jersey Turnpike, etc. And always wondered why. I have never really understood the whys or wherefores. And the above quote seems to suggest it is "smog" related!?!? Last time I looked jerry cans don't generate any emissions... what am I missing? | ||||||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 62 Registered: 01-2004 |
Shawn, if I told you it wouldn't be a secret now would it.. Lets just say that I'm a 32 year old, semi-retired, house husband, and father. | ||||||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 920 Registered: 03-2003 |
Here's an example of the "New" HK: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/HKbooboo.jpg What's wrong with this picture? | ||||||
| Ron L (Ronl) Senior Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 269 Registered: 11-2002 |
Oh Boy! | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 497 Registered: 10-2002 |
LOL-Accuracy and reliability will be difficult with that clip... | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 577 Registered: 10-2002 |
sweet merciful crap! | ||||||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 578 Registered: 10-2002 |
Bruno,  -jack |
