| Author | Message | ||
     Robin Cooper (Cooper1) New Member Username: Cooper1 Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2003 |
I took my Disco to LR because i have a bad catalytic convertor. I know for a fact that something iniside it is broken because i had two other places look at it and it makes a very annoying rattling noise. But LR says they can't find a problem (my ass) "and" they will not replace the catalytic convertor under warranty unless it is putting out emissions that are not up to code even if the inside of the cat. has broken up. I mean damn, it's not going to cost the dealer one dime and i know as soon as the odometer flips to 81,000 it will need replacing but it would take an act of Congress to fix it then.Did i mention they charged me $17 to replace the battery in my keyless remote. Man, it takes a special kind of person to own a Rover. As you can i'm pissed. That's all. | ||
| bluesman (Hywy61) Member Username: Hywy61 Post Number: 98 Registered: 02-2003 |
its pretty bad - $40 for two winshield wipers. I am out of warranty now and while they treated me well to begin with - I will avoid them like the plague for BS reasons like you said. They did a valve job under warranty and the service coordinator told me even though that work was warrantied for 12 months if something happened they would probably not honor it since i would be over the 50K mark. That really pissed me off. In your case i would have told them to keep their batteries. | ||
| Alan Bates (Alanb) Senior Member Username: Alanb Post Number: 460 Registered: 07-2002 |
That sucks! Both my cats and four o2 sensors on my RR were replaced under warranty. That was a couple of years ago, Ford now owning LR maybe putting a clamp down on warranty claims. LR maybe putting alot of pressure on LR dealers to hold down warranty claims since Ford is hemorraging money with all their crappy products, i.e wife's expedition. Use to be with my previous 98 D1 that any little thing that was not running or operating perfectly was replaced under warranty, no questions asked. I doubt it now. | ||
| Robin Cooper (Cooper1) New Member Username: Cooper1 Post Number: 40 Registered: 12-2003 |
Since we're on the subject, if i replace the catalytic convertors do i replace both or just the one that is bad. My cousin said he could do it but if i should do both i should prolly tell him. one more question, what kind should i get? | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 913 Registered: 05-2003 |
Robin, Gosh, reading your post is bringing back some really bad memories. I remember when I was feeling as frustrated as you appear to feel. You might want to try taking to someone else. In my case, it turned out that the service manager and his non or miscommunications were at the root of the problems I experienced. I was so frustrated that I was ready to sell my rover and pull out my hair. What bothered me more than anything was the trust issue. As in, how could I feel comfortable driving a vehicle when issues were not being addressed by the dealership as they should have been? It was not easy and it took great effort on my part (including the willingness to totally embarass myself), but I finally was able to speak to someone else higher up about the problem I was having. It turned out that the service manager had been giving me the run around and no one else was aware of it. My dealership, techs, and Land Rover really went out of their way to correct this in a way that totally exceeded my wildest expectations. I just love my techs and more than anything, I totally trust them. If it were not for the problems I experienced, I would not have formed the trusting and working relationship that we have developed. I stay out of dealership "politics", but with as much time as I have spent interacting with those that work there, I am very aware of them. When I was able to back off and see those that work there as individuals - rather than one big entity (the dealership) - I could see that some of the employees were in the same frustrasting spot that I was in - they were also getting the run around when they took issues to the service manager. It has been my experience that if I am honest, respectful them and of their time, flexible, cooperative, and also take responsibility for my rover - they go out their way to help me. I don't know if sharing my experience with my dealer helps you at all - but, I'm just glad I didn't give up on my dealership or Land Rover. I think Alan is right that Ford could be putting pressure on Land Rover. They also appear to possibly be going through an identity crisis at the same time. It might be a tuff period of time for the owners and the employees - but I know there are employees there that still want to do their very best to take care of their customers and their rovers. Can't help you out on the cats, I haven't learned about those yet. I just know I'm not supposed to run into anything with them. Good Luck to all of you, I hope things work out, Jamie | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 976 Registered: 02-2003 |
Jamie, you are a dog person arent you, so wy worry about cats..? At any rate, the service you get varies from dealrship to dealership. Here in NJ for example, the LR dealerhips that are part of the Paul Miller group have a reputation for excellent service, while some others who shall remain nameless have a reputation for being less than stellar. The attidude you walk in with matters, too. To be brutally honest, if I was the service manager and Robyn came in with the attitude that comes through in his initial post, I'm not sure how helpful I would have been, either. You catch more flies with honey....... And why bitch about this in the tech section to begin with? Is this a technical post? Not really. It sucks, but cats go bad eventually, and need to be replaced. If you are still under warranty, fight back, or go to another dealer. Bitching about it here won't solve anything. - Axel | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Senior Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 352 Registered: 07-2003 |
"Bitching about it here won't solve anything" I would bet that there are people from ford/land rover look in on this board, and that if enough people bitch about a single problem LR will change there policy. My jackass of a step-father is very active in the hummer club. When planning a Windrock event in 2001, hummer was going to bring in a H2 for testing on the trails. Word got to the hummer bulliten board and people starting talking about how they were going to really test it out, and trash it. No sooner than it hit the bbs hummer called my jack-ass stepdad, and wanted to know details of the event, and what he planned on doing to the H2. Pretty funny... But, it goes to show auto makers look in on these boards. | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 699 Registered: 02-2003 |
maybe thats how yall got one last year of the diff lock? | ||
| Tony Zuniga (Tony23007) Senior Member Username: Tony23007 Post Number: 287 Registered: 05-2003 |
Land Rover is trying to keep up with the competition on-road, if you look at this board it's apparent that they are not trying to fix problems that prior cars have with their new ones. That is why rovers still leak oil like hell, ABS systems still fail now as they did back then, bad electronics still drive us crazy and lack of fit and finish makes their cars depreciate really bad. And it's not like they don't see these and several other problems every day at their dealerships. If Land Rover was looking at this board they would have at least addressed some of the main issues that people keep bringing up over and over and over again like "HELP ABS Light ON". And why the diff lock is back on, because they want to milk the only thing they have working for them "The best 4x4 by far". | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 977 Registered: 02-2003 |
Maybe Ford and/or Land Rover look at this board, maybe they don't. Some techs and salespeople look at it for sure. But that really was not the point. I seriously don't think it will get Robyn new cats. There is a difference between reporting a problem and asking for a solution, versus saying "But LR says they can't find a problem (my ass)" Maybe his cats are still up to spec for all we know. Has Robyn done an emissions test to determine that? We don't know. - Axel | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 606 Registered: 11-2002 |
I HAVE TO PITCH MY .02 LR does not screw "there" customers they are very good to them. the problem is that most guys on this board are not "there" customers. for every guy that has a set up disco and bitchs about a dealer not covering a messed up CV there are 50 soccer moms that are happy with the tough looks and pretty wood trim. They also dont have any shortage of customers to fill there service bays. I know a local service guide and he says they have more work then they know what to do with. In every business when that happens you raise your prices and keep going , but when its a car dealer people get pissed. Should the dealer kiss my ass when I come in looking for a $100 part for a truck I never bought from them in the first place? I dont think so, and I dont expect it. and the best part is I am not let down by it. I still believe that people miss the point that these are dealers that only sell and service the product, not design or build it. this situation above is simple, whats in it for the dealer? what happens when they replace the cat and then LRNA does not warrantee it for the dealer? I say know that the dealers are profit based and live with it. Learn your way around your truck and do as much as you can yourself. If you develope a good relationship with a couple keys suppliers and use this board as a reference source you should be just fine. But if you keep going to the Dealer and expect a free lunch where all your problems go away for free...Get used to disapointment. Thom | ||
| Clif Ashley (Cta586) Senior Member Username: Cta586 Post Number: 515 Registered: 04-2002 |
That was beautiful Muskyman. | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 712 Registered: 04-2001 |
The warranty on the cats only applies if it either throws a CEL (a defacto emissions failure) or it actually fails a sniffer. Rattles are NOT covered and land rover will not pay the dealer for the claim, which can be over $2000. Also, if it has not had a decent service history same thing goes. If you want free cats go to one of the other two places and have them give you a print out with a failed emissions or a CEL and take that to land rover. Otherwise, no love. Ron | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 117 Registered: 02-2003 |
That does it!!! The concept of "customer service" is totally alien to LR -- they think it means that the customer does all the work on these trucks -- which ends up being the case, more often than not. I love my '95 Disco, but the next off road vehicle I buy will probably be a Toyota or a Mercedes -- unless they possibly bring back the Defender 90 or 110 (like the current one, not some bastardized Exploder) in diesel to the US -- but that's not bloody likely. I'm sick of the constant electrical problems and the lack of "service" -- and expensive at that. One of the big problems with LR is that there are so few dealers, especially in the hinterlands. More dealers would stimulate competition for service. On the other hand, there's a big opportunity out there for honest, independent LR shops -- never a lack of service to be performed on these vehicles. ---Norm | ||
| sam (Dent) New Member Username: Dent Post Number: 10 Registered: 01-2004 |
If you're not satisfied with the service you getting.. go else where. When my disco was in warranty, and I had to take it to the dealership, I'd bring a dozen donuts with. Not a big deal but people appreciate the small things you do and I got treat extremely well, both by the service people and the mechanics working on my car. As for LR wanting you to do the work yourself, I completely disagree. All the dealerships near me, the parts counter closes at 4:30 or 5 o'clock and they are not opened on the weekends. When I questioned them on how I or others can get parts with the hours they keep, they told me that 99% of LR owners do not do the work themselves so they don't see the need to open later or on the weekends. So people like us who want to work on our on LR's can't as getting parts is very hard. Usually have to give me credit card number over the phone and pick up the part from a sales guy and often enough I they give me the wrong part and have to go back next weekend to get the right part.... pain in the ass sam | ||
| Jim Macklow (Macklow) New Member Username: Macklow Post Number: 32 Registered: 03-2003 |
At my local dealer in Las Vegas, both the service manager and the D1 tech were were amazed to learn that I knew I had drain plugs in my swivel balls. They said that close to 100% of their customers know nothing about the trucks except where the gas cap is located. The parts guys are very friendly and helpful (open 'till 6pm M-Sat), and if I am replacing a part, they'll give me good information on other things I should replace while in there, as well as extra gaskets/o-rings/stretch bolts and other non-reusable items I should replace on my way to the offending piece. If they don't know the answer to a question, they'll call a tech over to get more info as well. | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 727 Registered: 06-2002 |
Hey Norm, buy a Toyota or a Mercedes and then you can bitch on their board! I agree with Axel "You catch more flies with honey..." Kindness never hurts and although I'm sure there are situations that get solved by one person fighting...most of the time, just look for a better solution. Like Jamie said, ask someone else. Keep trying. Being a woman, you can guarantee I get shit on at car dealerships and service places, but when I walk in with a friendly yet knowledgeable approach, I get respect. A lot of it. That makes all the difference. Muskyman, you are right on the money. I bought my truck used from a second-string dealership, and I don't expect anything from the LR dealers, but if I want something fixed by them and I'm willing to pay for it...so be it. I've seen the service history for both of our trucks and when they were purchased new and there was a reputable relationship at a specific dealership....they were treated like royalty. My Disco had so many silly things replaced under warranty (probably better for me!); I might never have taken a new car in for service like that, but then again, that is why they are there. Good luck Robin. | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 118 Registered: 02-2003 |
You shouldn't have to kiss the dealer's ass just to get decent service. On this, LR should take a lesson from Saab -- Saab has tremendous customer service plus reliable well-built cars that more often than not go over 200,000 miles (how many LRs can do that without MAJOR MAJOR repairs?). It's no wonder that Saab has such tremendous customer loyalty. For most people who buy LRs, it's a first and last time experience once they get a belly full of the usual electronic gremlins and lousy and expensive customer "service." The thing is, with a little effort LR could build as reliable vehicles as Saab -- but they don't have to: unfortunately, they can trade on the brand name "cache" alone. Although I like that my '95 Disco has "personality" the downside of that personality is having several warning lights blinking on the dash at any particular time. I get sick of it. ---Norm | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Senior Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 267 Registered: 11-2002 |
"You shouldn't have to kiss the dealer's ass just to get decent service." Absolutely correct, but if your giving the service writer a hard time, why should he or she do you any justice. I have had remarkable service through Hornburg in Santa Monica. Never lost my temper or questioned the service writers ability. As a result they have surprised me every time. Owning a Land Rover is an experience. If you dont like the experience. Get something else. | ||
| Bob Shinn (Bshinn) Member Username: Bshinn Post Number: 65 Registered: 01-2004 |
Susanna, I disagree w/ your comment re: "not expecting anything from the dealer". When I walk in the door I'm a customer, not a distraction. I don't give a damn if I bought the truck from them or not, I'm spending my (hard earned) cash there now. They need to treat all customers w/ respect. That's usually the case @ my local dealer, but the last 2 times I needed parts I dealt w/ someone new to me & was brushed off. Last time, when I needed some help finding some odd mounting screws for the radiator support, I was told, "he didn't have time to search for that kind of stuff", (plenty of time to BS w/ his co-workers for 10 min while I waited though). Because he didn't want to help me w/ $5.00 worth of screws he lost the sale on the $500.00 radiatior I was going to order next. Dave @ AB was more than happy to take my money. | ||
| Tim '92 RR (Snowman) Senior Member Username: Snowman Post Number: 687 Registered: 12-2002 |
When needed my RR goes to an independent LR shop that is absolutely superior in every way. They will sell me parts and take the time to explain the procedures to install ect. I see trucks from all over the country in their yard, that alone speaks highly of their reputation. Tim | ||
| Sergei Rodionov (Uzbad) Senior Member Username: Uzbad Post Number: 313 Registered: 08-2003 |
"They need to treat all customers w/ respect" Remember - God created all people equal. Its just that some people are more equal than others  | ||
| Bob Shinn (Bshinn) Member Username: Bshinn Post Number: 66 Registered: 01-2004 |
Uzbad, I've read Orwell. My point was how the hell do they know which pig is which? 10 mins of that gentleman's time would have been worth many thousands of $$$ of my money over the time I own this truck. But one more experience like that & they will be a last resort. | ||
| Rick Clarke (Tugcap) Member Username: Tugcap Post Number: 43 Registered: 02-2002 |
I remember the same sh#t with the snaab dealer ship. Expensive parts labor, attitude. But I knew what to expect. Three things I have noticed with LR in 7 yrs: 1.generally very good sevice(with notable exceptions) 2.inconsistency in dealing with warranty issues, and over the top niceties like loaner vehicles, flowers for the lady, nice touch. Soothes the horror of the bill. So post- warranty I stay away, and dont expect them to recognize me when I occasionally show up. Norm, your stock goes down comparing a full time 4x4 company to swedish snow cars maker. dont see many of em off road, nor anything legendary about'em - except their airplanes. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1128 Registered: 05-2002 |
I have never kissed my dealers ass, but I have had nothing but great service. It is not that they haven't screwed anything up. They have, but they also corrected thier mistakes. Likewise, I was never hard on them and I always treated them with respect. I have found that no matter where I go or what I do, if I treat people in a dignified manner they tend to treat me the same. When I am an asshole, they tend to be assholes right back at me. | ||
| Robin Cooper (Cooper1) Member Username: Cooper1 Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2003 |
OK, let me start by saying this. In no way was i disrespectful to the service manager. As a matter of fact, i bought a t-shirt from him while i was there. There's no hard feelings b/w any of us. I was just concerned about my cat. convertors. I know that one of them is bad and when he called me to tell me that they couldn't find a problem,i was just a little curious, maybe he wasn't back there when they checked..i don't know. I do know that everytime it sits at idle it rattles bad and he said they didnt hear a noise. I took it to a local mechanic and he identifies the problem also. So, the whole point i was upset was because i know that something is wrong and i would like to get it fixed. i cannot afford to pay for new cats. myself and if they are covered under warranty that would be great. Maybe they are not putting out bad emmisions right now but chances are they will be and with ny luck it will be at 81,000 mi. right after the warranty is out. My Disco is 7 years old, was bought from them, has been serviced by them, and has a clean record by them. It didnt start leaking any oil until about 1,000 mi. ago and it has 73,000 mi. on it and the only thing that has been replaced engine wise is the alternator and some belts and that's it. I know that dude man is just doing his job but i also know from past experience and other local Rover owners that the LR dealer just doesn't go out of their way to fix things. And, it would have been nice if they would have told me before hey put the new battery in that it was going to cost 17 dollars. And yes, all centers are different i realize that but my in particular has a bad reputation and has had a bad rep. for a long time.And it seems like there is a new service manager every week. This guy seems really nice though and im sure he's more than willing to help. In conclusion, i wasn't being an ass or rude or anything. I just wanted to get my cat. fixed while its covered under warranty. And because the noise annoys the hell out of me. Lata on. | ||
| Robin Cooper (Cooper1) Member Username: Cooper1 Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2003 |
O yeah, and a water pump just resently. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1130 Registered: 05-2002 |
I hate to side with a dealer that you use who has a bad reputation, but if you are passing emissions then your catalytic converters are fine. At least as far as any emissions warranty is concerned. Keep in mind that your emissions warranty is only in place and enforced under Federal Law to make your truck does not pollute excessively. It does not cover rattles or suspicion that your cats may go bad at some unknown point in time. /C | ||
| Chuck Stroud (Str0ud) New Member Username: Str0ud Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2004 |
Is it possible that it is only the heat shield on the cat that is rattaling? Many muffler shops would tack weld that up at no charge. Worth a climb under the truck to look at in my opinion. | ||
| Erik Olson (Jon) Senior Member Username: Jon Post Number: 570 Registered: 02-2002 |
I'm a really easy-going guy, but a lot of what's been said about honey and flies and doughnuts is pure nonsense. Upon delivery of my D1, my front sunroof was jammed. Under warranty, the San Francisco dealer checked the vehicle in, promising to sort the issue by the next day. No loaner offered - no problem, I rented an Enterprise on my dime. Around lunch time the next business day, I called to say hello, and ask if they thought it would be ready before they closed at 5:30. The service manager was out, so I decided to call back. When we got on the phone around three, he was unable to, or unwilling to find out if the work would be completed. Not really a big deal, but I did have that $39 a day rental car... Never heard back from the SM, and "dropped by" the next morning on my way in to work to see how things were going. All smiles, and "aren't those sunroofs just crazy!?" attitude, and still absolutely no sense of urgency or compassion from the service dept. I get a phone call around 1PM that the truck will indeed be ready and to come in after five. I arrive at ten of five and they pull the truck up fifteen minutes later. The SM jumps in the rig, and demonstrates the completely replaced sunroof from the driver's seat, at which point it promptly jams. He attempts to manually force it closed, using his hand against the glass - without any joy. At that point, I stood up on my passenger seat to look on the roof to see if anything (wrench, rag etcetera) has been left up in the track, and low and behold, the entire outer weatherstrip is bulging up as if not installed into the roof properly. I told the manager that I thought I'd found the problem to which he replied: "That was that way when you brought it in - we wouldn't have done that." Wouldn't have done that? You mean when your technician completely removed the old sunroof, rails and all, he couldn't have incorrectly installed the boot? The SM was pretty frustrated, and took the truck upstairs again and returned ten minutes later to tell me that they'd need it another day. When I finally got the Disco back, I was already exhausted from my first service experience. I went in there with a stellar attitude, and only got a lacksadaisical, resistant one in return. It took a call to the GM five days after dropping it off to finally get it back in one piece. I don't play games with people, and I never pull that passive-aggressive bullshit either. I have been on the receiving-end of rude, impatient customers plenty of times, and know when I have turned into one myself. In this instance, perhaps there is no case to be made for the cats, but there is a larger problem with this luxury brand that should be addressed globally by LR in my mind. I had a really different experience this past weekend on the new Freelander - came from the lot with a broken front window switch and a rear passenger door that would not open once we got it home. Called the dealer laughing it off, and the DOS was all apologies and "get it back here and we'll sort it right out". We got a tire cover, free lunch and a bunch of shirts for our trouble - and never once did anyone get red in the face over the transaction. I went in, giving the benefit of the doubt (my usual routine) and was handsomely rewarded for my understanding, collaborative attitude. But for any of us to say that this disposition always (or even nearly always) gets it done is pure hooey. There are people and situations where this works nicely, and others where it absolutely does not. For the others, it sometimes seems that threats, posturing or a nail-embedded 2x4" are better customer-service motivators. e | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 119 Registered: 02-2003 |
Service wise, it may depend on where you live, but reliability-wise, Saab is a much more reliable vehicle than a LR, even when you're comparing the inferior Saab Vauxhall/Opel v6 (vs. the Saab 4 cyl. motor) to LRs that are never taken off road. And most Saabs are turbocharged and driven like hell (I know mine is). Here's a list of what has gone wrong with my '99 Saab 9-5 SE (2.3L Saab turbo motor, a/t) with 40K miles since I've owned it: 1. Rubber gromet @ ecu deterioriated due to hot weather, made the car go into "limp home" mode. Saab picked up the vehicle, took it to the nearest service center (300 mi. round trip) fixed the problem and delivered the car free of charge. No problems since. 2. Ignition cassette went out at 35K miles. Fixed myself in 10 minutes. Parts cost: $300. That's it. Service has always been exceptional and reasonable. They installed a new battery once for free because it looked a little weak to them (out of warranty, too). Now, here's a PARTIAL list of all that has gone wrong with my '95 Disco w/ 70K miles (I don't even want to think about the cost): 1. Motor overheated and fried at 40K miles, replaced with 4.6 RPi motor (much better and more powerful than the stock 3.9). 2. Replaced R380 transmission at 45K miles (synchros bad). Replaced with Ashcroft rebuilt box, no problems since. 3. Power Steering Box hemmoraged (9 days out of warranty, dealer refused to fix). Tried to fix ($$$) once, bled again. Finally replaced with a rebuilt Meridian box, no problems since. 4. Power steering pump crapped out. Replaced with rebuilt Meridian unit. No problems since. 5. That wonderful and innovative "roto flex" on the rear driveshaft disintegrated. Replaced with Great Basin Rovers rear drive shaft (using a good ole U-joint). No problems since. 6. SRS cassette in steering wheel crapped out -- fixed under warranty. 7. Dash board turned into a Ruffles potato chip - fixed under warranty. 8. Actuator on passenger front door lock crapped out. Replaced for $$$, crapped out again. Still not fixed. 9. Windshield leaks water in rain or car wash. 10. Security system decided it didn't want to let me start the car (at its own whim) Reprogrammed at dealer for $$$. 11. Transfer case leaks. Dealer fixed once for $$$. Leaks again. CURRENT ELECTRICAL GREMLINS: 12. SRS light on -- assume SRS non functional. 13. Anti-Lock light on, ABS non funtional. 14. Instrument lights out (not bulbs). 15. Tail lights out (not bulbs). I'm currently using the rear fog lamps as tail lights, EXCEPT: 16. Right rear fog lamp out (not bulb). Got a ticket for it. Other than that it's a GREAT truck!!!! LOL As for service, LR has been a nightmare at the 4 dealers I've tried. They all charge $$$ for the tiniest thing that the Saab dealer would do for free. They're expensive, they like to swap parts without investigating the problem. Basically, they're crooks: I once left my truck at a dealer for a week to investigate the ubiquitous LR "tapping" sound (turned out to be bad rocker arms) and the put 800 miles on the truck "test driving" it. 800 FUCKING MILES!!! Basically, the mechanic probably drove it to Dallas and back for the weekend. And they still "couldn't find" the problem. Yup, that's the Land Rover experience. Love it or leave it. ---Norm | ||
| Robin Cooper (Cooper1) Member Username: Cooper1 Post Number: 44 Registered: 12-2003 |
Maybe i should have been a little more specific as to which catalytic converter is bad. There are two and it's the one under the drivers side. it's no the one with the heat shield but rather the one that looks and is shaped like the container oatmeal comes in (more or less a round rectangle) I put my ear directly up to it and its obvious that something inside is not right. Anyway, to be totally honest im not a mechanic by any means but i can tell when somethings broken. Anyway, i'll say no more. Im picking it up this week and plan on asking the SM if there's any more options and if he'll let me drive on the course they have at the dealership | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 608 Registered: 11-2002 |
norm you may be better off on public transportation Thom | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 265 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think this is a stupid argument. I did not bother to read through all the jargon but unless your C/E light is flashing then you probably dont have a problem, especially if you passed the emmisions test. Your CATS really might be rattling a bit but they are probably ok. Quit your MEOWING (hehehe). Seriously, I think you will find one thing a lot people agree on about cars....dealer service can be a gamble. I agree completely with Axel, how you act towards the service manager is very important, and once you have fouled up the relationship it is gonna suck. I made that mistake once, and I regretted it until I sold the vehicle. I think you need to remember that the squeaky wheel eventually gets oiled, but the one that blows up gets tossed into the garbage. | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 266 Registered: 10-2003 |
BTW, I dont want to hear anymore of that Saab nonsense. Why dont you just compare the problems of your Kenmore dishwasher to your Disco....."well the heated dry buttom froze up once, and the wheels on the top rack got squeaky"....... Hahaha, I will never own a vehicle with an engine called an Ecotec. What the hell does that mean anyhow? Also, its a good thing you have a slushbox or else you could not keep that thing going straight if you floored it. Nah I am just kidding, Saab makes a decent car and I am not attacking you just humoring myself. But seriously, why dont you come back in four years and then you can compare apples to apples, eh? | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Senior Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 268 Registered: 11-2002 |
Robin...Let me get this straight, your mechanic points a finger, and you expect someone else to pay for his finger pointing? Erik... I bet if you did not have to pay for the rental you would not even bother mentioning your experience. | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 120 Registered: 02-2003 |
Ecotec means that the fucking thing works when you turn the key to "start" on the center console. It also means that you can expect 200K miles out of it without any major problems. Never had any problem with torque steer on either Saab I've owned, including the '85 900 turbo coupe with a 5-speed, which was a rocket. So why is it that off-road prowess and mechanical/electrical reliability at Land Rover are mutually exclusive? I mean, the last thing you want out in the boonies is to be stranded because some 3 cent connector went haywire when they should have used a 10 cent part. It would cost LR all of $53.16 on each vehicle to use quality components instead of the junk they use -- I for one would gladly pay twice the difference. Come on, the Brits can build SSTs, Harriers, nuclear subs, etc. - why can't (won't) they fix the crappy parts on the "best 4x4xfar"? I guess it's because they realize that so many of us suckers will buy their product and keep buying major spare parts continuously and making the stealerships a ton of money with typical LR "service." That's why they NEVER improve their vehicles, unless such "improvement" consists of tacking on more expensive and unreliable electronic gadgetry. Thank God there's an aftermarket of independents out there that fix LR's shortcomings, otherwise I would have pushed her off a cliff years ago. ---Norm | ||
| Big Ed (Sandman) New Member Username: Sandman Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2004 |
Because they can...and we still buy them. | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 121 Registered: 02-2003 |
"norm you may be better off on public transportation:-) Thom" Tell me mine isn't the typical LR experience -- just read these boards. I'd say my experience is about average compared to the DII guys who are on their third motor because 5 cylinder slipped a sleeve (again). Thank God for the Disco Web which helps me fix most of this crap and point me to aftermarket vendors who make products waaaay superior to the factory. Is there anybody out there with an improved wiring harness who can completely rewire my DI and rid me of these continuous electrical gremlins once and for all? That would be nice. ---Norm | ||
| Big Ed (Sandman) New Member Username: Sandman Post Number: 12 Registered: 02-2004 |
Norm, I have a 1996 Gulf Spec Disco that is approaching 100K. NEVER had an electrical problem...most likely due to the improved wiring included in the spec. Not that I'm helping you out any, just thought I'd make that point. Going to find some wood to knock on before my clock starts regulating the spark distribution! SandMan | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 267 Registered: 10-2003 |
Norm, on a serious note. I bet most of your electrical problems are stemming from bad grouds. I would check all them and clean them and or replace bit of wires that look shoddy. Check the battery terminal also. LRs seem to be really sensitive to grounds and often times and lead the owner through nightmares trying to track down a problem when it is simply the ground. Give them a look. Matt | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2498 Registered: 02-2002 |
During my time in Philly, West Chester and Main Line were great. They had people empoyed at both joints that understood that not everyone is a soccer mom. Whatever complaints I had were completely nulled out when I moved back to NC. You know; "the grass is always greener..."
Correction, the Harrier wasn't worth shit until McDonnell Douglas (St. Louis) fixed it and started building it. | ||
| Donald (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 109 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'd just like to second the plug for Land Rover West Chester (PA). Only been in there once so far but they seem like a great bunch of folks who actually are both clueful and helpful. Living in Princeton, NJ involves driving 70+ miles away from one dealer and past another one in order to get there, and yet I fully expect to see myself doing that on a regular basis... Seeing as how it was the first time I used them there were no doughnuts on hand... But next time there may well be some beer in the Engel. | ||
| Ian Kreidich (Ian95rrc) Member Username: Ian95rrc Post Number: 183 Registered: 03-2003 |
"Come on, the Brits can build SSTs, Harriers, nuclear subs, etc. - why can't (won't) they fix the crappy parts on the "best 4x4xfar"" The difference is SSTs, BAC Harriers, nuclear subs, etc. all have redundant systems. I bet the concordes dispatch reliability was shit even with all the redundancy. In any case, you're comparing apples to oranges. | ||
| Erik Olson (Jon) Senior Member Username: Jon Post Number: 571 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ron, The experience is mentionable because of my time that was wasted, not the fact that I had to spend $200 on a rental car. When I was sitting at LR Greensboro waiting for my loaner Freelander to be pulled around, a well-dressed gentleman came in to drop off his Range Rover to have some electrical problems looked after. As I watched him standing there at the counter, waiting patiently for service, it occured to me that it is odd that we subject ourselves to the inconvenience of owning prestige vehicles. Presumably, someone who drives a $35k - $73k vehicle places a high monetary value on their time, yet they choose to drive vehicles that are anything but convenient to own. I often weigh the value of my time against the value I feel I bring to any given project when I decide to undertake it or pass on it. We all do this - do you pay for a $12 car wash or do it yourself? Oil changes? You also have to take into account the quality of the job you'll do when you're under your truck (e.g., inspecting suspension and looking for other problems) versus what a guy who makes eight bucks an hour will do. Anyway, it just kinda struck me that the fellow in his cashmere overcoat likely lost four hours of cumulative time having to bring in his RR and everything that entails. We had driven 73 miles in both directions to have our problems sorted, and lost a half-day with my wife's mother, who was visiting from California. For the sake of owning a Land Rover, that we went out of our way to purchase. On another note, it is complete horse***t to say that the dealer only sells someone elses product, and they are not ultimately responsible for satisfying the customer from a service perspective. These are vehicles that cost in the tens of thousands of dollars, not a $4.00 piece of cheese that you picked up at Trader Joes. When something goes wrong (under warranty), you don't just toss it in the garbage and chalk it up to bad luck. As far as I know, we cannot take our vehicles to LRNA for service - the dealer is the only interface we're given to satisfy issues related to build and mechanical support. It is all well and good to say that we should all be able to service our vehicles (I try to do as much as I can), but to say that the dealer doesn't owe you prompt, courteous service is utter silliness. The guys have that oval up there over their car lot are endentured to their customers for as long as that truck is under warranty. Again, I go in with a good attitude and willingness to be flexible, but somewhere in the background is a sense of entitlement as well. They have my money, and I have a contract which states that they are to provide service and parts (in a presumably professional manner) when the vehicle dictates that those items are needed. e | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 730 Registered: 06-2002 |
I only wish I lived near Philly so I could use Main Line...or maybe I just like hanging out with Alyssa and playing with all the new toys in the RR HSE!! Norm, I think your Saab comparisons are worthless. I know a guy in town who's wife would give you an EARFUL about SAAB's service and reputation. She was a loyal customer until she got a lemon and they wouldn't buy the stupid thing back. You can say that for any brand. My mother has always been a Cadillac driver and they have always lasted FOREVER....they have bought so many new cars from Caddy, my dad got a free GPS system just for going in for a test drive. But her best friend had a lemon Deville that she couldn't GIVE back to the dealership...after a court battle, she got a brand new 2003 to replace the lemon '02. I think it definitely depends on where you go, who is working that day, and many other factors. I have expressed my concern before about a few dealerships...I drove to the LR Asheville dealer in my Disco hoping to drive an 03 when they first came out, and noone even asked if we needed help. We were completely ignored while a family in a POS chevy looked at a Freelander for their 16 year old daughter. Go figure. I went to the dealership in VABeach and the sales guide didn't even bother to tell me about the new Freelander while we both sat in the lobby for about two hours. He had no customers, and was staring out the window...I was waiting for my truck and watching ESPN. Could he have been nicer? Yes, but when he spent an hour demonstrating every feature on the new RR to a woman who had come to pick hers up...I understood. That's what I mean by not expecting anything...if I had purchased my truck new or used from them, I would have expected more. I don't believe that we should be treated as distractions either, but if I receive a worthy amount of service and attention as a customer, then I'm happy. | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 922 Registered: 05-2003 |
Oh, don't even get me going on the "entitlement" issue. When I go into my dealership, I have been appalled by how some customers treat employees at the dealership. It is rare that I see anything that even approaches human kindness. From what I have seen in person, sometimes I think that there is a direct relationship between an increase in cash and a decrease in brain cells. | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 731 Registered: 06-2002 |
PS...I do have some good stories to share. LR Cary has always been OVER THE TOP helpful and nice...before I was a LR owner and after. But since I've never had any major work done on my truck at a dealership, I have no major complaints. If I can't do the work myself, I get my truck serviced by someone reputable in town and order the parts. Done deal. | ||
| nb (Nbd109) New Member Username: Nbd109 Post Number: 19 Registered: 09-2003 |
I have been reading all this and have to jump in with a comment. I have been a customer of the same dealer since 1996. They have always treated me fairly and gone out of their way to help me out (with prices as well as tech support) It does cost me a good bit to have them fix stuff I don't want to deal with, but they always do the job properly. Ex. I had an issue with my oil pump. I thought the SOB went out and was frustrated. Other independent LR shops diagnosed it as such. However, the dealer tech not only told me what the problem was but sat on the phone with me for about an hour going through all the steps to fix it. and it wasn't the oil pump! It cost me less than $20 to fix. NOw that is customer service. He has done that on several occassions. I refer people to them all the time due to the service I have recieved. I treat them well and they treat me well. However, one note, I have bought a few trucks from them, so they know that I am and will continue to be a customer. On several occassions when I don't have time or want to deal with a problem, I buy the parts necessary for the repair elsewhere and take it to them for just the labor. No problems. However, they won't use anything but Rover parts. So RN gets my parts orders. The dealership I use is Land Rover Northpoint in Atlanta. All of my experiences with all of my rovers over the years and with this dealership are stellar. Just my .02 NB | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 732 Registered: 06-2002 |
Jamie, I agree. Entitlement that you deserve respect and service, yes....but not without showing the same to others. My husband and I have always joked about the 'bum who goes into a Ferrari dealership' idea....you never know who has money by looking at them. I came from money, but half the time, my father drove a Dodge Minivan b/c he put his money into our other cars, house and boat. Now, he certainly never dressed like a bum, but he was treated poorly once when he went to purchase a car and that was the end for that dealership. Same thing goes for shop owners who overlook teenage buyers or women. You just never know who is going to be your next customer. | ||
| Erik Olson (Jon) Senior Member Username: Jon Post Number: 572 Registered: 02-2002 |
Don't misunderstand me when I say "sense of entitlement", I don't mean to imply snobbishness or that there is a class / caste system at work there. I'm a working-class guy, so I don't bring old-money issues to the table. At the same time, I work hard for every dime I have, and feel that my time is especially valuable for that reason. Like I stated above, I have had completely disparate experiences at two different dealers. I felt like I was made into the type of customer I disdain at the San Francisco dealership, while LR Greensboro made my experience almost entirely pleasant. I've worked in service at five-diamond hotels and resorts, and certainly feel quite qualified when it comes to identifying troublesome, demanding, condescending and rude customers - much less when I become one myself! Often, people who feel entitled come into the situation with an attitude to match, while I tend to temper my attitude with a sincere eagerness to get things done without conflict. My bigger point is that customers should be treated with some measure of respect out of the gate, and that going in with a pleasant attitude doesn't always get it done. | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 733 Registered: 06-2002 |
Erik, I agree completely! | ||
| Tyler kinghorn (Flippedrover) Member Username: Flippedrover Post Number: 44 Registered: 12-2003 |
Norm. I'll buy your Disco since you seem to to be annoyed with it. I'm relitively new to Land Rover have had my 90 for 9 months now. The first 3 of that was spent either in the dealership or parked in the driveway with a blown ECU and various other engine issues relating to the blown ECU. I got the run around from the service manager but once the shop foreman gave me his number and we talked things started to get fixed. They even fixed some of the things for free. After losing a cylinder due to a gasket leak I took it to an independent shop an hour from my house. I get great service from them and will take any Rovers I get in the future there. To quote a friend "It's a Land Rover" they leak are noisy and some what unrefined. Just look at there history. What started out as a replacement to the farm tractor the brand has come quite a long way. Its still growing and changing to keep up with the times. Quality can only get better. | ||
| Steve McDonald (Smcdonald) New Member Username: Smcdonald Post Number: 10 Registered: 01-2004 |
Ok I will say my peace and butt back out. I have worked for the same L/R dealer for 13 years and have been in parts for just over 20. This does not make me an expert but I have seen and heard more than has been posted here on this particular subject. I do not do buisness with companies that treat me bad. I too work hard for my money and I just want whats fair, nothing more nothing less. I also know that most of the time the sqeeky wheel gets the grease, they pay for it somewhere else down the line. I too have been the target of misdiagnosing and potential overcharging but I choose not to do buisness with those compaines. If you really feel you are getting *&$ked by your dealer go to the next in charge and if that does not work call 1-800-fine-4wd and talk to a L/R customer service representative. Now there is no gaurantee you will get what you want but those are the steps you need to take. It sounds as if there is an even mix of good and bad service out there. just be smart in your decisions on how you handle them. The very best advise I can share is that the relationship you form with your dealer is exactly that ""YOUR RELATIONSHIP"". The service department is the hottest spot in the dealership that's because when anyone comes in they are either inconvineced because of a service appointment that may cause them to be late or to rearrange a schedule or they are already T totaly pissed off because they just spent $$$$$ and now that piece of *$#*&@ left them stranded and had to be towed in. How pleasant are you going to come across when this is you or me on the other side of the counter and your service advisor asking how are you today? I dont work in service for that reason alone. I just don't do well taking shit from other people. But I do understand the hows and the why's . Some might say well that's your job well is it really anyones job to take crap from someone else No(unless your the porta-potty guy) I think all service related companies should brush up on their interpersonal skills including the dealer I work for, we don't want to loose customers. nevertheless everyone should be treated equal and if you don't get what your expecting say something, should you have to? hell no but it sure wont hurt to let someone know that you expect what is fair. just my 02cents | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 122 Registered: 02-2003 |
Tyler, she's yours for $30,000 cash and she's got a 4.6. Jeez, you sound like you'll put up with anything. Your dealer must love you. If I have a sense of entitlement, it is that: a) when I shell out $30K+ for a new vehicle it should fucking work without electrical brain flatulence and warning lights popping off ALL THE TIME. b) when it doesn't work, the dealer/service center should be able to fix it keep it fixed. If that makes me a snob, then I guess I'm a snob (or Snaab, as the case may be). My biggest gripe is those gd electrical gremlins. Well, I'll check the ground, but why is LR so suseptible to this -- and over the years they haven't gotten any better -- they've just piled on more electronics to go bad. I had great hopes after BMW took over that they'd finally dump Lucas and build something reliable. All for naught... My second biggest gripe is crooked dealers. I can deal with one or the other, but not both. For any of you electrical engineers out there, there's a ripe market for building a better Rover wiring harness electrical system. You'll make millions!!! ---Norm I forgot, there was that $400 alternator that crapped out, too. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1151 Registered: 05-2002 |
Norm - you live in a dream world. Other than a couple of Toyota trucks I have owned, my Rover has been by far the most reliable. Dealer service has also been top-notch. While I can not vouch for every vehicle and every dealer, my entire Rover experience is much bettter than yours. Then again, if you really think your 4.6 upgraded '95 is worth $30K then that is an explanation in itself. | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 123 Registered: 02-2003 |
Are you kidding??? If a guy is willing to pay $30K for a used Defender with a blown ecu and be content to let it sit for 3 months on the dealer's lot, then FOR SURE he'll be willing to pay $30K for a Disco with a 4.6 that actually runs pretty well, albeit with a bunch of warning lights on the dash and some miscellaneous electrical gremlins. "Other than a couple of Toyota trucks I've owned..." is pretty telling. At this point, I'd have to say the extra $15K you spend on a new Land Cruiser over a Disco is money well spent. So why can't Land Rover design and build electrics as reliable as Toyota? Because they're too fucking lazy and don't give a damn, that's why. Plus it would cut down on the (st)dealerships' profits if they built trucks that didn't need to be run to the shop every couple of months for some recurring electrical snafu. I would probably buy another Land Rover some time in the future if they would only bring the Defender back to the US (ie in a 110), put a good diesel in it, lockers all the way around and throw out all the electrical crap. But from what I see coming down the pike, it's just going to be rebadged Ford poseur vehicles with more electronic gadgetry to go wrong and enrich the dealers. ---Norm | ||
| Tyler kinghorn (Flippedrover) Member Username: Flippedrover Post Number: 45 Registered: 12-2003 |
Actualy I paid $24k for the defender. And No I wouldn't pay $30k for a '95 Disco. More like $7k. It sat for about a week at a time at the dealer or I drove it untill something else cropped up. Please don't insult my intelligence by saying that I'd be willing to pay $30k for a 9 year old very common truck. I do like the Disco and am sad to see what the new model is going to look like. $30k for a new truck yes. Old truck no,not unless its gold plated or something. | ||
| Erik Olson (Jon) Senior Member Username: Jon Post Number: 574 Registered: 02-2002 |
Tyler, I bet someone out there is working on that gold-plated Disco you desire. Just a matter of time before a ghetto-fancy rig of that description shows up on eBay. LOL e | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 124 Registered: 02-2003 |
Herein lies the problem -- we give too much brand loyalty to Land Rover and Land Rover reciprocates by never improving their shoddy electrics (among other things), lousy customer service both at the dealer and corporate level, and generally enriching themselves and their dealers because we have to keep bringing the trucks in for service every time a warning light goes on or something else craps out in the electrical system -- and generally the dealers are the only ones you can bring the truck to when the electrics crap out -- most independents don't want to touch it. That red "SERVICE ENGINE" light that comes on every 50,000 miles is a case in point -- it has nothing to do with the engine, it's just a bugaboo put in there by LR to scare the hell out of the owner so they run to the dealership to find out what's wrong. There's nothing wrong, it's just a ploy to get you in there for a "emmissions inspection" and give the dealer an excuse to charge you $$$ for said "inspection." LR has a well-deserved reputation for shoddy electrics. Oil leaks I can deal with, but the electrics are a whole different ball game. More often than not, the only fix I have for an electrical problem is to pull the damn fuse and keep driving, or just live with it -- but I PAID for that SRS, ABS, tail lights etc. etc. to WORK. I guess there are just too many of us in awe of the Land Rover badge for LR to actually bother with fixing their vehicles. As long as we're buying LR trucks, parts and service, a vehicle with recurrent problems is much more profitable than one that works. I tell you what, if there's a market for used Defenders that only run part of the time for $24K to $30K in the US (upwards of $60K for that "special" 110), then a brand new $75K Mercedes G-500 with EVERYTHING on it (and it actually works) looks like a steal. ---Norm | ||
| Eric Fox (Efox1971) New Member Username: Efox1971 Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2004 |
You know, I think if you are looking for people to agree with you that the quirky electrics are a nuisance than maybe you are in the right place. Your tone however sounds as though you are fishing for others to stage a revolt against the Ford Corporation or the Land Rover subsidiary. That probably isn't going to happen here. If you read the archives and other current posts, people here see to really like their vehicle despite those items. They certainly are annoying, but when you find a vehicle you like it is easy to overlook those things. I currently own an S-blazer that suffers from many of these same ailments and I hate it. Rue the day I bought it, however I am actually considering a Disco. Bottom line, I think you sell your own intelligence and that of those on this board to repeatedly try to tell people they are irrational for not taking up your side of the argument. The rational part of the argument probably said goodbye about when you started posting your rant. How about going to the Jenny Craig board and telling them why Weight Watchers is better? It's almost a more useful expenditure of your time. Eric | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Senior Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 270 Registered: 11-2002 |
Damn Eric! Well said. | ||
| Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Senior Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 437 Registered: 09-2002 |
"How about going to the Jenny Craig board and telling them why Weight Watchers is better?" Damn that was sweet. I will have to use that one. | ||
| Erik Olson (Jon) Senior Member Username: Jon Post Number: 577 Registered: 02-2002 |
What I like is when someone speaks for the moderators or generalizes for the whole board. That's the best. e | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 126 Registered: 02-2003 |
What I love is how the board moderators have seen fit to move this thread from the "technical discussions" to the "general discussion" -- as if these problems weren't of a technical nature. I guess the powers that be on this board know what side their bread is buttered on...LR and the dealers want to keep selling these rigs and keep charging $$$$$$ for long-term service. I suppose we should be glad they haven't censored this thread entirely. ---Norm | ||
| Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith) Senior Member Username: Kennith Post Number: 413 Registered: 05-2002 |
Norm, What the hell is that supposed to mean? I think you might want to explain that one to us. It seems to me that this discussion is GENERALLY about gripes with LR and their policies. Robin srarted it by bitching that the dealer wont fix the cats under warrenty. I don't recall anyone asking how to change the cats themselves. As for service, I have always been happy no matter where I went. I have had dealers from all across America give me loaners, as well as handle warrenty claims I didn't even ask for. I have also sent in many letters of recognition to Land Rover North America, and regularly call the ones I have visited to keep up with the goings on. You simply have to work with people to get what you want. Cheers, Kennith | ||
| Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith) Senior Member Username: Kennith Post Number: 414 Registered: 05-2002 |
Also, I'll third the plug for West chester, and my new friends down at Cape Fear in Wilmington, NC. Cheers, Kennith | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1153 Registered: 05-2002 |
Norm, For the love of God. Please sell your Rover and buy a G500, Landcruiser, or something other than a Rover. It was obviously not the rig for you and most folks around here are getting pretty sick of your constant bitching. Don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on the way out. /Curtis | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2003 |
Norm, Thanks, I always wondered what chicken-shit, horse-shit and bull-shit would smell like if it was all mixed together in one post. Now I know. Eric | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Senior Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 271 Registered: 11-2002 |
Let me repeat myself Damn Eric! Well said. | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 131 Registered: 02-2003 |
Pearls before swine... Eric, Ron & Curtis: don't tell me, you guys paid $24K plus for your used Defender 90s (or $60K for a used 110). This must be very painful for you. ---Norm | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 902 Registered: 02-2002 |
"what chicken-shit, horse-shit and bull-shit would smell like if it was all mixed together" sounds like the turduken of shit!  | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1167 Registered: 05-2002 |
Norm, You dipshit. You are obviously the one in pain. I paid a fair price for a near new DS2. It AND the dealer serviced me well. Other than routine maintenance, the rig cost me nothing to keep running and everything was done right. Many of the '94/'95 DS1's had electrical problems. Just because you got stuck with a pile of shit does not mean everyone else did too. Like I said: sell it and move on. No one cares about your bitching and whining. /C | ||
| Matt Anderson (Disco01) Senior Member Username: Disco01 Post Number: 288 Registered: 10-2003 |
People please. Norm, I hate to say it but you just need to stop. You have lost this ongoing argument, and the only dignified thing you can do now is backoff. I have no doubts you will post a reply as you seem intent on getting the last word in. You have made your point and that is where it should have stopped. This board is set up to help people work through things with their vehicle and does not need to be a battle of the size of your balls. It sounds to me like you are taking some pent up aggression out on this board and you are jeopardizing anyone wanting to help you when you need it. I am very sorry you do not like your vehicle and if you dont I think you should sell it. There is no point in keeping it if you dont enjoy having it. I encourage you to not respond negatively to any more posts and not feel as though you need to get the final word. Matt | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1170 Registered: 05-2002 |
Matt, "People please." WTF does this mean? For that matter, what does the rest of your post mean? It sounds like you are trying to be Mr. Nice Guy while telling him to fuck off. Why not just cut to the chase? /Curtis | ||
| Ron L (Ronl) Senior Member Username: Ronl Post Number: 272 Registered: 11-2002 |
Norm, If you look at my profile, you will see I do not have a Defender. I purchased a 00 D2 that was 6 months old, 7K on the odometer for 26K. Living in Oregon, I paid no sales tax on the thing. I have had no major issues with my rig. Stop eating sour grapes, all your doing is pissing cheap wine. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 988 Registered: 02-2003 |
I guess you will just have to find another board more to your liking, then.  - Axel | ||
| Aaron Richardet (Draaronr) Senior Member Username: Draaronr Post Number: 446 Registered: 09-2002 |
Ha Ha, I knew that was coming. In the end they get what they deserve. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 613 Registered: 11-2002 |
Norm
I cant understand where you are coming from?...this statement alone makes me think you are not in touch with reality. and yes I think your run of bad luck is more your perception then what the average disco owner sees. Thom | ||
| Rupert J (Tehamarx) Member Username: Tehamarx Post Number: 123 Registered: 11-2002 |
Maybe Norm got a nervous breakdown from his vehicle woes? "Prozac--the Wheaties of LRO" | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 964 Registered: 05-2003 |
I've hesitated to continue reading this post since it got kind of "ornery". However, I would like to give a bit more input to my previous post about entitlement. It looks like it might be safe to post now? While I have seen owners display condescending attitudes of entitlement toward employees, I doubt that a single one of them would even take the time to read this thread or become educated about their rovers. That was a good point made that when we purchase our rovers we do have reasonable expectations of them being cared for by the dealership. If any of us wrote a check to purchase a vehicle, the dealership accepted the funds, and we never received our rover, I don't think anyone here would put up with that. I think the difficult thing about service and relationship is that it is not "an object". Nor can it be reliably measured. It takes both sides to form a trusting, solid, and secure relationship with those that service our rovers. I also think that this becomes a bit more complicated for those that desire to push the operating limitations of their rovers to get them to perform better. While this work is extremely rewarding when our rovers get out there, we do open ourselves up to an increased number of "issues" that need to be addressed as we change our "stock" rovers. This appears to be true no matter what the age of the rover. In my opinion, these "issues" are best handled by the owners that learn to deal with them and also expect them to be "part of the package" of ownership and the great fun of trail riding. This is one of the reasons that I like DWeb the most, the older guys with more experienced are here willing to help us "newbies". They also help the more experienced rover owners when they change or take on the challenge of another rover that they have added to their lives. They are gruff and ornery, trust me - I know about this because I have been a crybaby after they have come down on me several times. While this is extremely uncomfortable, I think that one has to "toughen up" in all ways. Being on this board is sometimes as hard as it is out on the trail and sometimes as equally scarey. One of the greatest things that someone told me MANY YEARS AGO was that if you want to make it, you've got to learn to eat pain. I have found that to be very true. In my opinion, each one of us just has to personally decide what we want, what we are willing to do to obtain it, what our strengths are, what our weaknesses are, and how much tolerance or patience we have. I don't think that there are any wrong answers, I just don't think that anyone should keep hitting themself in the foot if it hurts too much - especially if there are no rewards. It does not matter if that reward is just the security of having a reliable daily driver that you know you can count on. In fact, this reward could be the greatest of all rewards. This is is also an absolute necessity for those who go further. Imagine what would happen if a solo cowboy needed to ride his horse to make regular sweeps of his perimeter and his horse kept falling down. What's the cowboy gonna do? It is a sweet victory getting to the other side of an obstacle, even more so when much effort and TEAM WORK has been expended to get there - but, sometimes you've just got to back down the trail - there are times that is the ONLY wise move to make. Who made that saying that says "run away and live to fight another day"?? In any case, I've worked hard to maintain a good relationship with my dealership. I don't deserve any gold stars for that, they have worked equally as hard. This is just me - but, if I did not have a good relationship with them, could not trust them or count on them, or my truck was falling apart for no reason on a regular basis, I'd sell it in a heartbeat. The same goes for owning any rover that seems to have gazzillions of tiny problems as listed above. I'd never have the patience or tolerance for that and the work/rewards ratio would not be worth it at all for me. It would only just be a constant pita and it would be long gone. On the other hand, such a rover could be just the perfect rover for some of the members here, they'd probably be as happy as a pig in mud tinkering away all day and night. Maybe some of you should start trading rovers Just my 2 cents, Jamie |
