| Author | Message | ||
     Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 719 Registered: 04-2001 |
I am looking for a semi-auto handgun, in the $500-1000 range: My criteria: 1. It must be reliable and not require heavy maintaince. Maintaince is fine but not rover level maintaince, more like BMW level maintaince. 2. It must look mean, sort of like if I ever had to pull it out people would run when they see it rather than me have to shoot them. 3. If I do have to shoot someone, I want them to stop immediately and not survive one shot so I am thinking big caliber (recommendations on amunition would be helpful in this regard too). 4. It must be something that can be carried comfortably if need be. Also safety is key, with a very low risk of accidental discharge. I am a new person to the gun thing and I plan to take the course and all. Also if anyone knows the procedure for a carry permit in PA that would be cool. I was thinking Glock but I am more than open to suggestions, especially about what caliber to get. My hand is quite large so I can handle a good sized gun. I was originally thinking anaconda or python, but I decided against a revolver. Ron | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 354 Registered: 08-2002 |
Glock, Sig, XD, Walther P99 and HK's are all good guns, they all run well right out of the box. it just depends on what you are looking for and how it fits. i can't find it at the moment, but i recall that you just have to go to the sheriff's dept. i was going to get one, but never got around to do it and OH is getting CCW. try http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/pennsylvania how about this? http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/thunder50bmg-2.jpg | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 721 Registered: 04-2001 |
Thanks. I like the one in the picture. Do they make a pistol that fires browning 50 cal rounds! LOL Ron | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 579 Registered: 10-2002 |
glock .40 cal. http://www.expeditionexchange.com/anzaborrego/100_0181.jpg not necessarily the 35 (tactical on the left) but a regular full size or compact .40 reliable. simple. effective. the weapon is only about 5% of the equation though. it's going to take quite a bit of practice/training to make you proficient in defense. know that before you get into it. also you need to know that you have some moral/philosophical decisions to make before you ever have a gun for self defense. that way when the time comes to use it, you will have both the skill, the knowledge and the conviction. this could be one hell of a long thread... | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 635 Registered: 02-2002 |
go GLOCK! as long as we all recommend glock, it'll be short thread.  Ho Chung | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 722 Registered: 04-2001 |
I am definately leaning toward the glock. why Glock 40cal? Can you explain why you reccommend 40 cal? OTOH this would be great if it were in my price range (and you know you could actual hit what you pointed at with it): http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=15906321 Ron | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 498 Registered: 10-2002 |
LOL- Ron, Smith made this one just for you: http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293613&item=831458&sw_acti veTab=1 I don't want to be around when you decide to fire it though... | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 723 Registered: 04-2001 |
Greg, Do they make a 2in barrel for it? LOL Seriously though, why 40cal glock? Why not 45 or 9 or 357 etc. Ron | ||
| Shawn McKenzie (Shawn) Member Username: Shawn Post Number: 205 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ron, are you left or right handed? H&K USP .40 with whatever crazy expanding ammunition you Americans can carry. {\jealous} It's got 'mean' covered.  | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1154 Registered: 05-2002 |
"why Glock 40cal? Can you explain why you reccommend 40 cal?" The .40S&W is a good round. So are .45's and 9mm's. The .40 is a decent sized caliber with a lot of bang. Even to the point of having a fairly violent discharge. Muzzle velocity and trajectory are excellent. I got my first *real* handgun two years ago and went with the HK USP .40 . I could not be happier. To this I will add that the feel of the gun is what sold me. I wanted a weapon that felt comfortable in my hands right out of the box. I went to a gun dealer and shot a Walther, two Glocks, & two SIG's. All shot well, but the HK just felt right in my hand. Try different guns and get what feels good. If you stay with the brands mentioned you really can't go too wrong. The Glock has a decent price advantage over the rest of the pack. They also make different sizes to fit different hands and needs. As trite as it sounds, my only objection to the Glock is that it is somewhat plain and ugly. /Curtis | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 724 Registered: 04-2001 |
right But again, why 40 cal? | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 499 Registered: 10-2002 |
Whoops- I see you want a semi-auto. Then this is your handgun: http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1600/1657.htm It meets the above requirements perfectly- Maybe you even can have "Ron Brown" engraved in large letters on the slide... | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 725 Registered: 04-2001 |
Curtis I missed your post: So basically 40 cal is a good compromise. Do you get better stopping power with a 45 cal? The lean here seems to be HK, how much more are they? Whats a good price on the glock and on the HK? Ron | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 500 Registered: 10-2002 |
No, the consensus is you need a chrome IMI .50 AE Desert Eagle. | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 636 Registered: 02-2002 |
curtis, i know you could be happier. ron, how about a 1911? good ole 1911. Ho Chung | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1155 Registered: 05-2002 |
"Do you get better stopping power with a 45 cal?" Good question and one that I have seen different answers to. The .45 is much much slower than the .40. At close range (which is likely where you will be shooting someone from), the .45 will knock the shit out of someone. The .40 will too. Keep in mind though that this is not the movies. There is no one shot kill unless you get a lucky head shot. If you are shooting right you will be hitting the torso. Plan to unload your clip into the bastard no matter what caliber you use. Glocks run $500 last I checked. The HK is in the $800 range. Mine is the Stainless version and I think it was about $850. You also need to investigate whether you want single or double action. The SIG's are DA only. The HK USP is both SA & DA. /Curtis | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 726 Registered: 04-2001 |
Is it in my price range? | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 727 Registered: 04-2001 |
Even with like hollow points or whatever, one is not enough? I mean you run into problems when you continue to shoot after the guy is incapasitated. (see law school is good for something) Ho 1911 is cool, does not meet the mean quotient though and not sure it would be as safe as a Glock. Ron | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 637 Registered: 02-2002 |
well, then we are back to glocks. GLOCK it is! Ho Chung | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 728 Registered: 04-2001 |
on the one shot issue the desert eagle is looking good. Ron | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 638 Registered: 02-2002 |
how about http://www.glock.com/g21.htm Ho Chung | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 729 Registered: 04-2001 |
Just do it! GLOCK Alyssa will then have to get a "protected by glockensphiel(sic)" stickers | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 501 Registered: 10-2002 |
Yes it does look good. Make sure it is the chrome one. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1156 Registered: 05-2002 |
If you shoot someone you will likely be in deep shit anyways. If the shooting is questionable they might bring up the multiple shots. The truth is that most people don't even know when they have been shot once or twice. If they are attacking they will likey keep attacking and you will have to shoot them more. You hope they drop by the time your clip is empty. They will cover this is your CCW class if you get a good instructor. Jack said it best in that you will have some moral and philosophical issues to deal with before you make the purchase. I am assuming he said this because you said you hoped the gun would scare the perp. If you pull a gun, you should be prepared to kill with multiple shots. /C | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 502 Registered: 10-2002 |
Glocks are for pansies! Get the Desert Eagle! You're not anti-semitic are you? | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1157 Registered: 05-2002 |
"on the one shot issue the desert eagle is looking good." You better hope one shot does it because you will have to recover for a few seconds before you get another shot off with a .50 BTW - One shot will still probably not do it | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 730 Registered: 04-2001 |
I am an advocate of the common law felony penalty rule so I am not too worried about the moral/phisophical issue. I know the law and if I have a legal justification for pulling the trigger I am pretty darn sure I will pull the trigger. The scare the perp comment was more in situations where the killing would not be justified just yet based on the circumstances. Basically I will probably be walking around and driving a very nice vehicle in some very not nice cities very late at night and I would feel a lot better about it with a gun. Ron | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 503 Registered: 10-2002 |
The Desert Eagle is your gun- BTW-what cities will you be practicing law in? | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 639 Registered: 02-2002 |
glock! Ho Chung | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 733 Registered: 04-2001 |
Either Philadelphia or Wilmington. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 792 Registered: 11-2002 |
Colt 1911 Ron.... AS far as I know the .45 and the 357 are still at the top of the class in "one shot stops". Its not as pimpy as all the guns listed above , it simply gets the job done.. "Blow me" | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 356 Registered: 08-2002 |
Just get the GLOCK already!!!! | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 357 Registered: 08-2002 |
Curtis, Sigs are DA/SA like the USP's, but you just can't carry cocked and locked. here's what i bought in January, gotta love OT  | ||
| Pete Stefano (Pete_s) Member Username: Pete_s Post Number: 100 Registered: 02-2003 |
Colt Combat Commander .45- thats all I have to say. | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 570 Registered: 04-2003 |
Ron, my personal preference is something that shoots nice and smooth. I also like something that fits my hand nice "Glocks" shoot good, but they don't fit my hand well. I don't know how you shoot or what you like. I personally own a few guns, both long guns and pistols. When I buy my next handgun, these are what I am looking at. http://www.paraord.com/pages/carry.html They shoot well, the conceal very nicely and since I prefer a .45 this is what I like. I personally carry a Kimber Pro Carry .45 now, I like the way a single action shoots. The Para is a double that shoots like a single, so it is the best of both worlds. | ||
| Greg P. (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1574 Registered: 11-2003 |
"I am looking for a semi-auto handgun, in the $500-1000 range:" I don't think so Ron................ You'll shoot your eye out. | ||
| Randy Black (Snuffer) New Member Username: Snuffer Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2004 |
"Most people don't even know when the've been shot once or twice" From .40 S&W on up if you use the right ammo the first shot will knock them off their feet. I like the fit of a Browning Highpower. | ||
| Greg P. (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1575 Registered: 11-2003 |
I know you said semi auto, but if you want a simple, easy, small gun, you could consider something like what I have at home. A S&W .357 snub with a 2" barrel and oversized walnut grip. Again, not as fancy as the semi-auto's, but it's a simple gun to deal with, and fairly light to carry. | ||
| Greg P. (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1576 Registered: 11-2003 |
http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293600&item=831382&sw_acti veTab=1 This is similar to what I have, although I don't see my particular model listed. | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 360 Registered: 08-2002 |
i'm actually looking to get one of these soon http://sigarms.com/apps/cmt/img/1911-large.jpg http://sigarms.com/products/gsr-models.asp?product_id=197 | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 520 Registered: 01-2003 |
Thank you, Greg. He will shoot his eye out. This is why when we got married and he told me he wanted a gun, I told him he could get a gun but he wasn't allowed to have any bullets. Laugh all you want, but I don't want a gun in our house/car/ANYWHERE! | ||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 194 Registered: 02-2003 |
1911 always gets the job done. -leo | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 361 Registered: 08-2002 |
Alyssa, not even a grease gun? | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 521 Registered: 01-2003 |
A grease gun is fine. That's what Ron needs. In fact, he already has one. And he came in under budget. Done. End of Discussion. Forgive Ron. He is going crazy studying for Law School. Apparently he wants to be first in his class again this semester. | ||
| Greg P. (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1577 Registered: 11-2003 |
I've had guns all my life. Growing up between my father and I we probably had 30 guns in our house of various types. He would trade them from time to time and still has quite a few. I currently went from a cabinet full of guns to just two. I keep my 357 pistol unloaded and I have a remington 870 12 guage pump that I've not even had a chance to fire. Somewhere around 10 years ago, I just got to a point where hunting was not an active part of my life anymore, and I just didn't feel the need to have a cabinet full of guns. I don't have any problem with honest people owning guns mind you. In fact, I think gun control only takes guns from honest people, as bad people will get them the same way they are getting them now. Long story short, just because I don't feel the need to keep my gun on me and loaded, doesn't mean others aren't in a situation to need to. I can say that I would hate to be in a situation to have to pull a gun on someone, because like someone said above, if you pull it you better be prepared to shoot and kill someone. | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 362 Registered: 08-2002 |
WOOHOO!!! Ron, Alyssa said you can get a "Grease Gun" http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/grease.htm | ||
| Chris von C. (Chrisvonc) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Chrisvonc Post Number: 425 Registered: 07-2002 |
Ron, I have owned a few Glocks and currently own a 9mm version. My previous one was a .40 and I should have never gotten rid of it. Glocks can also be had in .45. Glock .40 (or .45) or 1911 would be my personal choices for a replacements. Both very durable guns. Got to gun ranges and you can rent a wide variaty of handguns to help you make your desision before you buy. There is Target World in Lansdale and Target Master in Chadds Ford both with indoor ranges and an impressive selection of rentals (usally fairly newer models as well) to try. If you want to go sometime, shoot me an email. Lisa and I just started getting back into range shooting. On a side note, I was shooting a few rounds off in the SIGArms's newest 1911 model the other night. I thought it was pretty nice but I admit, I dont really know a lot about them or have a compairison it to the real deals. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 793 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yeah , those glocks and other plastiguns look really cool when you hold em sideways too....Maybe a Glock and some gold fronts and you are good to go..... "Blow me" | ||
| Chris von C. (Chrisvonc) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Chrisvonc Post Number: 426 Registered: 07-2002 |
http://sigarms.com/apps/cmt/img/1911-large.jpg LOL... Right on Danno... thats the one I was shooting the other night. Really liked it! | ||
| Chris von C. (Chrisvonc) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Chrisvonc Post Number: 427 Registered: 07-2002 |
I can honestly say I have never held my Glock sideways. | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 571 Registered: 04-2003 |
No that is funny, holding a gun sideways......lets see I want to shoot something with minimal chance of hitting my target.....I can shoot with the gun sideways that should do it. | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 363 Registered: 08-2002 |
like this Kyle? i know it's not gold but...  | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 364 Registered: 08-2002 |
here's the Homeboy sights... http://www.birdman.org/images/hnsbig.jpg | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1510 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ron - call me if you ever want to try out a selection of stuff to shoot - best way to decide. Another Glock lover here - but not exclusively. Personally I'd stay away from the .40 S&W for a beginning shooter. Unless you get the comped version, the recoil is a bit on the snappy side. I've got the G22, but don't shoot it all that much anymore. The G21 (.45) is my current favorite - but that's a large firearm to be toting around. Also considerably more recoil to get used to than say a 9mm. Autopistols, in general, take more time, training and practice to be proficent at. You may also consider some revolvers. Some of the newer S&W titanium and scandium frame pieces are nice for carry (very light). Also - less maintenance and higher reliablilty (asuuming low/no maintenenace) with a good revolver. (that should start a shitstorm I know) Bill | ||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Senior Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 319 Registered: 02-2002 |
.357 Magnum Revolver I read a study that determined that a 357 Mag with 125gr rounds is the most effective round in a self defense situation. From what I remember, it was based on police reports. The 45ACP is a good self defense round, but I prefer a revolver if time is of the essence. There is no safety, no wondering if there is a round in the chamber, etc. Keep it simple, especially if your not familar with shooting. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1158 Registered: 05-2002 |
"Curtis, Sigs are DA/SA like the USP's, but you just can't carry cocked and locked." I knew there was something highly irritating about the SIG. Darn shame too because it is a very well balanced gun and I actually liked the weight for subduing the recoil. Danno - you got some nice metal in that case. The Glock is by far the ugiest, plainest, cheapest looking thing in there. /Curtis | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 643 Registered: 02-2002 |
but i think the ugly ass glock is the one that shoots the best. Ho Chung | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 504 Registered: 10-2002 |
Have any of you actually used the 386PD? Or other small .357 airlite S&W's. I doubt it. Yes, it's very light. Yes, saying your firearm is made out of Scandium is very nice. I fell for the bling myself and bought one. And sold it equally fast. Actually shooting them is like trying to aim and hit something while someone is hitting your hand simultaneously with a 16 oz. hammer. It is not fun. It's only useful loaded with .38 sp. Ron needs the Desert Eagle. In chrome. That's his gun. | ||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 70 Registered: 01-2004 |
Ron, if you are looking to pull and scare them into running I would suggest adding a laser on it. Hommies in the ghetto shit their pants when they see little red dots on them. So you may not have to fire at all. HK, SIG, Walther P99, Glock are all nice guns. Any one of them will be fine for personal protection. So it really comes down to you going to the store and trying them all out. When trying the Walther ask the guys if you can try the different back straps as well. Of course if you aren't going to be allowed to have any bullets then I would go for the heaviest gun you can find. So that when you throw it at them it might knock them out. You'll want a long barrel also in case you have to club them at close range. | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 365 Registered: 08-2002 |
Curtis, that's just from my monthly purchase ;) Glocks might be ugly, but their the one's that i trust the most. this is what my wife prefers to have in the nightstand.  BTW, she start to like the idea of a gun in the nightstand after 9/11. yep she's a little paranoid, watches too much "Law & Order" and "Lifetime" | ||
| Greg P. (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1578 Registered: 11-2003 |
Gregh, My S&W .357 is not one of the scandium ones. It's about 11 years old, and as best I can recall and remember is basically just blued steel. Nothing fancy. It is a very stable handgun to shoot. With the oversized walnut grip, it fits my hand very well. I have a selection of bullets for it from target 38's, to 38's to full 100+ grain .357 mag's. However, I've come to the point that I don't even keep it loaded. The one I placed the link to just is similar in shape and style to what I have. I haven't actually seen one of the scandium ones. My dad, who has the identical gun to my .357, just traded it in for a stainless version. That is a really nice looking gun too. Not sure how stainless compares though. | ||
| Steve Sherman (Ssherman) Member Username: Ssherman Post Number: 148 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ron, Like other people have suggested, your best bet is to go to a shop/range and shoot several different models and go from there. I personally carry a Para-Ordnance P13-45. I went with the .45 because of the stopping power of the round and because it's a slow velocity so you don't have to worry too much about shoot through. Also what I like about mine is that it has a high capacity magazine (13+1). But I will also have to admit that I'll be checking out the HK P2000 this weekend as another toy. Steve   http://www.paraord.com/pages/highcap.html#1345 | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1513 Registered: 02-2002 |
Greg H - yep I have put thousands of rounds through various airlites over the years - 38, 38+P and 357 with a light bullet work well. The gun is not designed for a lifetime of digesting full-house .357 loads. If Ron's looking for a defense weapon - he's not putting lots of rounds through it and can practice with .38 loads. Would I shoot a light frame pistol just for a fun day out - No, but that's not the point of this. Don't just go off half cocked (pun intended) and assume everone else is talking out their ass. A light revolver (or a steel frame too) makes a great self-defense piece. Bill | ||
| Reed Cotton (Reedcotton) Senior Member Username: Reedcotton Post Number: 317 Registered: 01-2003 |
Best caliber - .45 ACP (Just my favorite, plus it makes big holes) Reliability - 1911 ( or a SIG. OK maybe also a Glock) Scaryness - Looking down the wrong end of any handgun, but to really be scary, have a lazer sight. (One that is intergal to the handgun is best for carry) Ease of carry - (This is going to be very controversial, but I like the Taurus PT-145. It has 10 +1 capacity, and weighs less than a lot of 9mm's.) Place to check on various states carry laws - www.packing.org I might revise scary to the Desert Eagle .50, but you really need to be Gov. Arnold to carry one. Get some hand gun training then go to a range and see what you like to shoot. then get some defense training, Then decide on a piece to carry. -Reed | ||
| Reed Cotton (Reedcotton) Senior Member Username: Reedcotton Post Number: 318 Registered: 01-2003 |
Alyssa- Take the training with him. It just might change your mind. -Reed | ||
| Matt Moore (Mmoore) New Member Username: Mmoore Post Number: 27 Registered: 01-2004 |
OK gun guys. Here is a different kind of question: How do you lock your gun up so your kids can't get to it but still be able to get to it in a hurry yourself? I've always kept a handgun next to my bed and now have a very young daughter who is almost mobile. | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 712 Registered: 02-2003 |
combat tupperware. i opt for the 9mm Glock with pre ban clip. | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 366 Registered: 08-2002 |
i don't have any kids, that's how. i think the best way to keep it safe, yet available is to get one of those safes that you can press a few buttons to open. it would be alot quicker than fumbling with key's to open a gun lock | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1281 Registered: 04-2003 |
Ron, based on what you opened the thread with, you want a little Glock 9mm. Get around that Brady Bill fucked up magazine 10-round limit bullshit and just pack the bullets in. You're not looking for the nearest bell tower, are you? Now, of course, this was also said, and it can't be ignored: A grease gun is fine. That's what Ron needs. In fact, he already has one. And he came in under budget. Done. End of Discussion. However, I put forth for Alyssa's consideration this fact: Ron's gun will be in a perpetual state of disassembly and never really be operating as intended, so everyone should be happy. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1282 Registered: 04-2003 |
Matt, you just can't be lazy about it - keep it safe/out of reach during the day and every night put it where you want it. I also keep the chamber empty as a backup precaution - little hands can't chamber a round but they can pull a trigger. Chambering a round in the time between grab & aim is no sweat. | ||
| Matt Moore (Mmoore) New Member Username: Mmoore Post Number: 28 Registered: 01-2004 |
Danno, the safe with the few buttons is kind of what I was thinking about. Does anyone know who makes them? what do they cost? where do you get them? | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1283 Registered: 04-2003 |
search "gun safe" on ebay | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1284 Registered: 04-2003 |
here's an old auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2982870098 | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 128 Registered: 02-2003 |
Double action/single action: SigARMS P229 in .357 Sig (recoils like a 9mm +P, hits like a .357 Magnum). Single action: Commander-size 1911 .45 -- Kimber makes a good one in your price range (get the series 1 safety/trigger) steel frame preferable. Pocket gun: Colt Mustang Pocketlite .380 -- smallest quality .380 made (basically a scaled down 1911) -- if you can find one. I would add quality tritium night sites (such as Trijicon). You're more likely to run into trouble after dark and these will allow you to acquire a target, even in total darkness. I would avoid the Glocks and other striker-fired plastic guns. They're great carry guns because they're lighter, but the plastic trades bulk for weight vs. a steel/alloy gun. That funky not quite single action, not quite double action trigger I do not like. Due to the lightness, recoil is sharp. The funky trigger and the recoil will not help you hit what (who) you're shooting at in a high stress situation. Give me a high quality, all-steel 1911 .45 any day. They're still arguably the best combat handguns ever devised. And practice... ---Norm | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 581 Registered: 10-2002 |
No offense Ron, but after reading this thread again, you don't come across as particularly serious. I don't think just owning a gun has to be that big of a deal, but self-defense deserves a lot of consideration. what's the story? | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 648 Registered: 02-2002 |
jack, it's very simple, he needs a glock. Ho Chung | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 129 Registered: 02-2003 |
If you're not serious about shooting or hitting what you're shooting at, buy a Glock or one of the other striker-fired plastic guns. Cops love them because they're light and easy to carry and have 17-round magazines (all the better to spray and pray). Cops are notoriously bad shots, too -- most of them don't bother to practice and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn to save their lives. I'll say one thing for Glocks -- they certainly are ugly. ---Norm | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 130 Registered: 02-2003 |
Best easy access handgun safe: R&D Enterprises (all steel gun safe with a 5-button Simplex combination lock). ---Norm | ||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 71 Registered: 01-2004 |
Matt, they make safes that you can put by your bed in a drawer or under the bed. They are small but, big enough to hold a standard hand gun and a few clips. They have a key lock and also a quick combination electric key pad that is shaped like your hand imprint so that it is easy to use in the dark without the key. Though it takes more time (not too much) to get at your gun in an emergency you can't beat the feeling knowing that your child can't get into it. If you have more then just the one gun then it's time you go out and get a gun safe for the others around the house. They can get pretty expensive but, they are worth it. If you can't afford the safe then at least get some good quality trigger locks or breech lock. They have some trigger locks that are easy access coded as well. The small safe by the bed and a larger one for the rest is a better idea though. | ||
| Christopher Boese (Christopher) Senior Member Username: Christopher Post Number: 286 Registered: 10-2002 |
Bad visual pun. Glockenspiel!  | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 583 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ho, Maybe he needs the "noisy cricket"? http://www.expeditionexchange.com/anzaborrego/100_0182.jpg who sez 10mm isn't a sub-compact round? | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 736 Registered: 04-2001 |
"Ron's gun will be in a perpetual state of disassembly and never really be operating as intended, so everyone should be happy." LOL I am serious. I dawned on me at about 2am that the reward for my hard work I would be driving around in a new black BMW or D90 late at night very frequently. I would feel better about it with a gun. If I have to be in a city at night I am going to be armed. I have been thinking about it for a long time. BillB I appreciate the offer, I might take you up on it. I am already working on the CCW. It seems really easy in PA but if I get a job in DE it seems like it is really tough as a non-resident. Now all I have to do is convince Alyssa to let me have bullets to go with the gun. I am definately leaning toward glock, still unsure about comped and not (what are the downsides to the comped one?) and caliber. I have heard about the 357 as being the best stopper, even better than 44mag. Not interested in a revolver. Anything short of a python says I bought this to protect myself because it was cheap and I don't know what I am doing. Some of the law students and I are planning a group trip to targetmaster after we are done with this project. Ron | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 737 Registered: 04-2001 |
And I could not agree more on the "grease gun" http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/grease.htm Alas not sure if it is good for concealed carry. Ron | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1514 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ron, Stay away from .44 - that's like learning to drive in a class 8 truck! Besides, a .44 is no carry piece. You can come and shoot them though IMO - can't go wrong with Glock - it's the closest thing to using a revolver, but is SA. BTW - don't blow off the revolver idea so quickly. I don't mean some SNS piece of crap, but a S&W in .38 or .357 will kill somebody just as dead as an autopistol - and with much fewer things to think about. As far as comped goes - it is nice, but is only a benefit for quick followup and a help when shooting alot/often. Most self-defense shootings that occur are not multiple shot affairs. That being said, I do love Magna-Port's work! Bill Bill | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) Member Username: Norm Post Number: 132 Registered: 02-2003 |
Ron, If they have a TargetMasters or other range in your area where you can rent various guns, you should do it. Try a good 1911 .45, a Sig (or Beretta) and a Glock (if you must). These are representative of the best of the various trigger actions: single action, double action/single action and striker-fired. I wouldn't bother with a double action only pistol -- they were divised primarily to keep cops from blowing their feet off when drawing their weapons after they switched from revolvers to semi-auto. Take some instruction, if its available, and see which one shoots best for you. I wouldn't be overly concerned with lightness, high magazine capacity, or calibre (as long as it's at least a 9mm). The important thing is being able to hit your target in a vital area as quickly and accurately as possible in a stress situation -- and keep hitting it until it ceases to be a threat. As far as concealability, there are plenty of holsters, fanny pack rigs, etc. for nearly every gun made, so that shouldn't be an issue. There are even jackets made by Coronado Leather with built-in gun pockets. I would say, though, that even though a full-sized Glock is comparatively light, it's extremely bulky, compared to, say, a full-sized all-steel 1911, which may be heavier, actually lays flat. So just pick the one that works best for you. ---Norm (But I guarantee you'll be sorry if you buy a Glock.) | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 505 Registered: 10-2002 |
I take back my previous recommendation for the Desert Eagle. This should be Ron's gun: http://www.usa4id.com/ciwc/SawedOff.htm Truly an "attorney-worthy" firearm. | ||
| mark gomez (Mark) Member Username: Mark Post Number: 53 Registered: 05-2003 |
I agree with Norm about Glocks semi-double action trigger. Its not as easy to shoot as a 1911 off the bat. But if you practice with it, you'll get use to it, and it will become easier. I personally like my Glock 17 for it's simplicity, durability, and high capacity. It's also very easy to take apart and clean compared to a 1911. The only thing I did was add night sights and 3lb trigger. They even offer underwater firing pin caps for pd/gov use. As for the comp versions, they have holes on top of the barrel to reduce kick, but at night this may be a disadvantage due to flash. In any case, shoot some of the different guns and see which feels the best to you. | ||
| John Roche (Jroc) Member Username: Jroc Post Number: 238 Registered: 08-2002 |
"It must look mean, sort of like if I ever had to pull it out people would run when they see it rather than me have to shoot them" "Anything short of a python says I bought this to protect myself because it was cheap and I don't know what I am doing" I was waiting for someone whom you knew to tell you this but PLEASE don't get a gun to scare people!!! Not wanting to sound like your father but this is REALLY a bad idea! | ||
| Matt Moore (Mmoore) New Member Username: Mmoore Post Number: 29 Registered: 01-2004 |
Thanks guys I'll find a small safe. Everything else has trigger locks and is kept up high and out of reach. I just like to keep something handy. I grew up with guns and gun safty is a big deal to me. | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 367 Registered: 08-2002 |
why a Glock? this is why http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/AAR_files/glock.mpg | ||
| Perry Ray Miller (Discojunky) Member Username: Discojunky Post Number: 76 Registered: 03-2003 |
The .40 is a good caliber for several reasons: Good heavy bullet weight 165gr-180gr. Good velocity up to 1200fps (factory loads) Moderate recoil for the amount of stopping power and the fact that it is so popular with law enforcement means that there are truck loads of inexpensive ammo out there. It seems to fall between large handguns like the .44mag and small handguns like .380's. Great defense gun. And if you have use it just hope the guy shooting back has a "nine" and holds it sideways or better yet the ulta cool over the head pointing the gun down move. | ||
| Perry Ray Miller (Discojunky) Member Username: Discojunky Post Number: 77 Registered: 03-2003 |
Oh yeah, for the money and out of the box proformance, GO GLOCK! But if you have a grand or more to spend you can beat a good 1911. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 801 Registered: 11-2002 |
Do you really want a gun that I can render useless witha Bic lighter ? "Blow me" | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 923 Registered: 03-2003 |
"Anything short of a python says I bought this to protect myself because it was cheap and I don't know what I am doing" I don't know who told you the Python was the shit, but it's not. It's just shit. It's a also a pimp gun. The the Python is the Rolex Daytona of revolvers. Don't be misled by price. Most nice things are expensive, but not all expensive things are nice. That Python is a POS. There are all sorts of different pistols available, and everyone has thrown in his two cents on what you should buy. But if you are inclined toward a service revolver, here is a much nicer alternative to the Python: http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2004-01-11/MAXWELL_1_1074046802_MVC-002S.JPG Even out of the box, this is a very nice weapon. If you want to customize it, you can have a NON-GUN-BUTCHER like Cylinder & Slide shop give it an action job, round and polish the trigger face, polish the chambers, and chamfer the chamber mouths. You will have a superb pistol. If you want, you can send the weapon to Trijicon and they can handle the very precise drilling required to install the tritium inserts if you feel the need for these. If you want to keep the weapon stock for political reasons, it is a superb revolver out of the box so you can leave it as is. Or, you can have the S&W Performance Shop do these mods and you'll have a "factory" gun. The Model 65 is also considerably cheaper than a Python. So you really can have it all with this weapon. Also, don't think you're not with it because you pack a revolver. Revolvers unquestionably feature some advantages over autos. Furthermore, it is the man, and not the weapon, that makes the difference. As they say at Front Sight, "Any gun will do, if YOU will do." Python. LOL. | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 650 Registered: 02-2002 |
ron, you dont' smoke, do you? Ho Chung | ||
| Matt (Doc175) Member Username: Doc175 Post Number: 242 Registered: 11-2002 |
Here is my 2 cents and I know more than the average bear about hand guns. So far, I agree with most of the advise. The most important thing you could do is test fire a few diffent guns before you buy one. Try the local shooting club or some bigger dealers may let you rent one. The weapon needs to feel comfortable in your hand. If you have big hands you can change out the grips so do not let that be an overwhelming factor. Trust me, all guns look scary when you are looking down them so do not let that sway you. You need to determine what the primary use is going to be. If you are going to carry it, a compact is better. Unfortunately, the recoil is much greater on a compact so it is more difficult to control if you do not have a lot of experience with handguns. If it is home/ glovebox weapon a fullsize might be better. Especially for bigger hands. As far as caliber, I would go with a .45 and here is why. Large guns (50 cal.) are notoriously unreliable and gus too much to be realistic. The .45 has the knockdown power you want. The .40 is not bad but IMHO the .45 is a touch better. Do not get a 9 mm unless you just can not handle a weapon. It is a good "learner" round. If you do not believe me, prove it to youself. Go to a range and shoot steel targets (you can put a hole in paper with a spit-ball). After about 15 m and beyond the 9 mm will not knock the taget down a great deal of the time. The .45 will knock it down all the way to the 50 m line. I know people will have a say on this but I would stay away from Glocks. Any weapon without a manual safety I would not buy. I feel as though it is better to learn how to propery use the gun rather than have one you (or a child) can have a very easy accident with. I am a big 1911 fan. Very reliable battle field (literally) tested. It does have a lot of moving parts, which is not great in dusty or muddy weather but for the urban areas it is great. The 1911 also has a ton of aftermarket parts so upgrades are easy. I do A LOT of shooting and the 1911 is by far one of the best hand guns you can get. What ever you do, lean to shoot it. Take your time and know the gun. | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 584 Registered: 10-2002 |
Wow Norm, you know just as much about firearms as you do about Land Rovers! | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 925 Registered: 03-2003 |
Yeah, this thread is pretty revealing. It would seem that people's taste and knowledge about Rovers is commensurate with their taste and knowledge about guns. | ||
| Ray Gerber (Raygerber) Senior Member Username: Raygerber Post Number: 265 Registered: 09-2002 |
Interesting post, I'll chime in since I've owned both a Glock and a Springfield 1911, and I may even have one item of merit that might help Ron: -All the suggestions about shooting several weapons before making your choice are very good ideas, a good gun store/range will go out of their way to make sure you're comfortable with the purchase (That's how I ended up with my Glock 21, the owner of the range/store lent me his to shoot...) -This thread has covered the merits of the classic .45 vice the Glock fairly well, and a few quick searches will yield more in that debate, but it will probably come down to personal preference in the end. -One thing I found that makes my Springfield preferable to the Glock is the comfort and enjoyment my wife finds in shooting the 1911 over the Glock, despite the significant reduction in recoil in the Glock as compared to the .45. I would suggest seeing if Alyssa wants to try shooting one day-my wife much prefered the single-stack to the double for shooting, and since I love the .45 I have no complaints putting rounds through them too. Given the opportunity you both might find shooting to be a good time, and its very important that both of you be comfortable with the weapons system if its going to be in your house (IMHO). I lean more toward the 1911 over the Glock but its personal preference, and I figure if I can't put a target down with 7-8 rounds, I need more help that than pistol is going to provide. From a home defense perspective the small, finger combination safes are the way to go with little ones-I have a very mobile 2 year old and I really don't use the pistol for HD anymore, I've turned to my shotgun which I have locked in a open bracket that is hidden just out of sight in a closet. Mossberg makes the bracket, and while it wouldn't stop a determined theif, it does serve the needs for rapid access with kids around fairly well. Going down the shotgun route would probably open a big tangent to this thread though, and you're concealed carry needs obviate that anyway-I put it in only b/c some have asked how to deal with kids and guns. My suggestion has already been given: try a Kimber Pro-Carry, I would bet you'll really like it r- Ray | ||
| Tyler kinghorn (Flippedrover) Member Username: Flippedrover Post Number: 48 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ho are you a Glock dealer?? I have found this thread very interesting as I know nothing about hand guns. | ||
| Greg P. (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1579 Registered: 11-2003 |
But for a carry piece in an urban setting as a business person or lawer, do you really need a 10+ shot semi auto for self defense? Wouldn't a simple 6 shot revolver be just as detouring? I think you will get sick of toting a large gun every day, if you are not in a job or a situation where you are wearing the appropriate gear to carry the weapons. I mean, a cop or soldier need more than a few shots, but do you really need that many for simple personal protection? Thats at least my reasoning for thinking a light, simple, no frills revolver may be a good choice. Greg | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 651 Registered: 02-2002 |
no, i dont' sell guns. and i am like you: i know nothing about handguns. LOL what i know is, my recommendation is no different from someone that "knows" guns. i mean, this is the internet! LOL Ho Chung | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 738 Registered: 04-2001 |
I am sold on auto. Not keen on the revolver thing. Python was merely an example of the size of handgun you would need to be comparable to the auto. "I think you will get sick of toting a large gun every day" Basically only at night on me and in the glove box otherwise so to me no biggy on how much it weighs. Short walk to the car and then drive home. Not like I am walking around a lot. danno, somehow I am guessing that is not legal although it would solve the one shot issue Ron | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 506 Registered: 10-2002 |
Bill B and Greg P- My comments weren't directed at the old Airweights or even the Titanium/aluminum Airlites. I've fired those many times and while they're not my pick for a great carry gun, they aren't a bad choice. My negative comments were directed the Airlite Sc's. Specifically the small frame 5 round models. I honestly haven't tried the 7 round medium frame or semiauto. They are a neat concept being as lightweight and strong as possible. However, I bet 90% of all shooters would find them painful and overly harsh when shooting .357 mag. Try firing all 5 rounds in quick succesion and my hand was throbbing. Accuracy went to hell. I also disagree that practicing with milder 38's and loading with "hotter" .357's for "when it counts" is a good idea. Under stress, I would like my response to be smooth, automatic, accurate and not thinking about how to compensate for harsh recoil. I have one of these and like it better than any other revolvers I have tried (note it's the "+" or 7 shot model): http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293567&item=831407&sw_acti veTab=1 For a CCW this may be better (also "+" or 7 shot): http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293567&item=831406&sw_acti veTab=1 My 2 cents- | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 235 Registered: 02-2003 |
I've had at least a dozen handguns for all different purposes. Plinking, home protection, concealed, etc. My GF has also owned several guns. My personal opinion is if you don't plan to practice often, then buy a revolver. If you can't clear a feed jam (rare but can happen) when your life is in jeapordy, then you don't need an autopistol. My GF has carried a Walther concealed but will be going to a .357 snubbie with a shrouded hammer. No snags, no jams, no problem. Just six shots of hard hitting ammo. I carried a Glock 9mm and then a Glock 40. I've tried Sig, looked at HK, had a Kimber, Walther, Beretta 9mm, and tried out a Para for a while. The Glocks are what I kept and carried. Simple, dead reliable, and easy to properly maintain. You can strip a Glock to clean it in under 10 seconds with no tools. The friggin Kimber was a knockoff of the Glock, and a bad one. The HK was a little to finnicky for my taste. The Para was nice, but pricy and I'm not a big 1911 fan. I've also used a comped .44 mag for the house and you did NOT want to be on the recieving end of that 8" barrel when that bullet came out. WHOA what a punch. So, given what you mentioned your needs were, the Glock seems the best fit. Glad you asked about a gun safe. With small kids in the house it's a real issue. I had teens in the house and my solution was simple. Whereever I was, the gun was. I had three clips. Two stayed locked in the car, one was on my person at all times, usually in the gun. If it fits your hand, you might look at the Glock 36, which is a compact .45. Very nice concealability, good round, and Glock reliability. I learned to shoot handguns with a .22 and then the Glock 9mm. I'd suggest you start with a smaller caliber as well, as starting with a .40 or .45 is a sure way to develop poor habits. And take some instruction. Gunsite of something similar would be cool. And make friends with a VERY good lawyer or firm. If you ever need to shoot someone, you want good representation from someone you can trust. Best of luck with your purchase. | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 741 Registered: 04-2001 |
What about 10mm glock? What I gather 45 is a slow round, is the 10mm faster? One shot stopping/killing power is key. Ron | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 586 Registered: 10-2002 |
a .45 generates something like 425 ft/lbs of energy while the 10mm is over 600. 10mm is A LOT of gun. It's very hard to have an accurate succession of shots with the "noisy cricket". even though 10mm is about the same diameter as .40cal the 10s share the wide slide of the .45 cal glocks while the .40s are the narrower 9mm width slide. something to think about for a carry gun. | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 746 Registered: 04-2001 |
glock 20 it is, with a pre-ban mag | ||
| Greg P. (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1580 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ron, I just can't help but stop and ask, as your friend, what in the hell are you going to be doing to need a gun like that? Jesus Christ, what type of hollywood movie do you see yourself getting into while practicing law to need a 15 shot handgun for protection? | ||
| Danno (Danno) Senior Member Username: Danno Post Number: 368 Registered: 08-2002 |
yes the 10mm is only 1mm larger than a 9mm, and the same size as a .40S&W but there is so much more BANG in the 10mm. | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 524 Registered: 01-2003 |
He's nuts, Greg. Simple answer. While he will most likely be in downtown Philadelphia late at night, which, to be honest, IS very scary, I see little chance of him being able to get to the gun in his glovebox if he needs to use it. The only way this would work is if he carried it with him, which, since there are metal detectors going into most places downtown, isn't going to work. | ||
| Greg P. (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1581 Registered: 11-2003 |
Well, if you are working in a big building in down town, wouldn't it be illegal to carry a consealed weapon into it? I mean, usually the consealed weapon laws prevent you from carrying into a place serving liquor, a sporting event, a highly populated area like a mall, etc. Unless of course you are a gov. official or cop. Maybe I'm wrong. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1173 Registered: 05-2002 |
Not in Utah. You can carry guns into any place in Utah except federal buildings or the airport. | ||
| Perry Ray Miller (Discojunky) Member Username: Discojunky Post Number: 78 Registered: 03-2003 |
Remember there is such a thing as overkill my freinds. And many people will tell you velocity and light bullets don't have the preffered effect when it comes to stopping power. Thats why the .45 is still here almost a 100 years after its introduction. As far as a 10mm goes, think of it as a .40 mag. but, its alot harder to shoot with no reason for the extra power. Most people don't need that much gun unless your into comparing ballistics. Hell, just get the new .500 if you want to hear a big bang. Anyone that shoots alot or shoots competion and is honest and not into maucho trips (which excludes many gun owners) will agree that it is much harder to accurately shoot a large caliber handgun than it is a smaller caliber one. Thats why competitors down load their ammo to enable them to shoot faster and more accurately. The trick is to find the caliber that has good stopping power and can be shot fast and accuratley buy the individual shooter. Remember this, a little .25 on target is much more effective than a miss from the 10mm or the .500. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1516 Registered: 02-2002 |
Python is a POS pimp gun?! - gimme a break - talk about an opinion telling about ones knowledge. Almost inargaubly the Python is the smoothest action DA revolver ever to leave a factory. 90% of Pythons were built in the heyday of Colts manufacturing - when the quality was top notch. Throughout it's history as a production gun, no other out-of-the-box revolver could come close to fit/form/function. the closest S&W came was items out of the custom shop. This isn't to be taken as an anti-S&W view either, i love many of them as well, but they cannot compare in terms of initial build quality. It is a good thing that Colt stopped manufacturing the Python before they went to shit. Talk about a company that is only a shadow of their former selves. Bill | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 747 Registered: 04-2001 |
All the buildings I have been in downtown phila do not have either metal dectors or a CCW policy (in charlotte they all did have no gun things but you could check it in with security and get it on the way out). All of them are ID only access or someone has to sign you in. As far as I know the only place in PA where you can't take a gun is a courthouse, and possibly schools depending on how the court views that section of the law. Basically I am thinking in the car and in my brief case (then locked in drawer) anytime I am out late. Ron whose got a deal on the GLOCK 20? | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 236 Registered: 02-2003 |
Man, that Glock 20 is going to be a HANDFUL. I hope you hit whatever you're aiming at with the first shot, because reacquisition of the target is going to be a bear. That's one reason I loved my Glock 17. The muzzle rise on that thing was about half an inch, and I could triple very easily. It was much harder with the .40. I did quite a bit of target shooting with the .44mag too, and I know the 10mm kicks similarly, especially in something with a frame as light as a Glock. I would SERIOUSLY suggest you rethink the 10mm or put about 100 rounds through one before buying one. I can't imagine ANYONE who'd need more than a good .40 or .45. 6 or 8 shots of .45 ammo in the hands of a good shooter is about 5 shots more than they would likely need in a true, close-range encounter. Again, good luck with your purchase. | ||
| John W (Disco_gold) New Member Username: Disco_gold Post Number: 27 Registered: 09-2003 |
Ron, I would recommend a Glock 23C for concealed carry since the 20 is a pretty big pistol. But if you have your heart set on a 10mm then go for it. I carried a 10mm for years and was very happy with it. It wasn't the hand cannon that some may say, but I think that is more a function of the ammo I carried, not the gun or the caliber itself. Try a round with a 180 grain bullet to start. It is a relatively light for the 10mm and I found it to be controllable. Ballistically it is similar in performance to the .40S&W. Then why carry a 10mm? Because you can move up to hotter and heavier loads, like the 200 grain bullets, when you are comfortable and get better performance. Also, a 20C might be the way to go, compensated. FWIW | ||
| Greg P. (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1582 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ron, I think you need to just get a can of pepper spray and a belt carrier for it. Then, loose the suit and the fancy watch. Put that shit in a back pack and dress in some grunge wear. Then ride the fricken train in to down town. Get dressed after you get there. Besides........... You'll shoot your eye out. | ||
| Enoch Snyder (Esnyder) Member Username: Esnyder Post Number: 111 Registered: 10-2002 |
My .02 cents. What a gun "looks like to the bad guy" means a lot less than what it could do to the bad guy. You're not trying to look cool, you're potentially trying to kill someone before they kill you. A double action revolver is way easier to deal with for someone who hasn't shot an auto a LOT. In a serious situation, you're liable to forget to jack the slide (if you opt to carry only the magazine loaded, as some have suggested), and then look pretty dumb standing there squeezing the trigger till your veins pop out. A Ruger SP101 is hard to beat for a hard-hitting concealed carry gun. You can practice with .38s, but keep it ready to roll with full-blown .357s when it's time to rumble. A hot loaded .357 is hard to beat for knocking the **** out of someone. Plus it's stainless and can take some abuse, from under a car seat, etc. Downside is only 5 rounds, but then again, it's 5 rounds of .357 mag. Short barrel is not too accurate (plus the fact it's a revolver), but don't most self-defense occurrences happen inside of something like 10 or 15 ft? | ||
| james (Check38) New Member Username: Check38 Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2003 |
I can speak from experience. I was shot 3 times. Twice in the chest, and once in my leg with 9mm hydro shock bullets. I was in an altercation with a guy at a bar. When the bar put us out, he shot me in the parking lot. When adreneline is high, you can't feel shit...even a hydro shock.....I didn't know I was shot until I saw the blood, which was roughly 5 minutes later. I thought he missed | ||
| Sandy Deke (Disco_deke) New Member Username: Disco_deke Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2004 |
Which begs the question: What happened in the 5 minutes from when you got shot and you realized you were shot? I take it you didn't get hit in any major organs or blood vessels. What were the extent of your wounds? | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Senior Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 435 Registered: 08-2002 |
I can't believe nobody has recommended a Beretta 92. That was the most reliable weapon I ever had and carried it daily for several years. | ||
| james (Check38) New Member Username: Check38 Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2003 |
People quickly came to check on me. While We were standing there waiting for the police, I started to feel blood run down my leg. I had on shorts. The minute I saw the blood is when it started hurting. In all 3 places. I didnt even know I was shot in the chest until i saw the blood on my leg. I was running so fast from the guy that I had a good 2 minute walk back to bar. He was chasing me while shooting. No serious damage. just some nasty scars | ||
| Porter Mann (Porter) Member Username: Porter Post Number: 145 Registered: 05-2003 |
You were shot in the chest, and you were still standing/walking? Where in the chest were you hit? Did the rounds not penetrate past the ribs or something? | ||
| Sandy Deke (Disco_deke) New Member Username: Disco_deke Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2004 |
So when they pulled the Hydra-Shok slugs out of you, could they tell if they were the 147, 124 or the newer 135-grain bullets? Either way, somebody up there must like you for you to still be alive and walking around. | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2003 |
I went through quite a few sidearms before deciding on the setup I use. Glock G22 Full size frame .40 cal. I competed in GSSF competition with it and it sucked for carry because of bulkiness. Hits hard, hard to get back on target for rapid fire. It stayed in the case while I carried a Beretta 92. The lack of manual safety is a plus in situations of duress. People forget to take off their safety and their gun ends up on the street with the criminals after getting their ass kicked, wondering why it didn't go boom. HK USP Mod 23. Awesome .45ACP! Again, too big and bulky to carry comfortably. Better in every way than the glock. Colt Combat Elite 45ACP My scores in competition went up 15% when I transitioned to this one. Mild custom work and it's a keeper. Kimber ProCarry. My everyday carry weapon. Comfortable, reliable. Added Mepco sights. Colt 1911A1 1943 manufacture, low serial numbers. Vintage, smoothest action of any pistol I've tried. Hard to find but worth it. Ruger Security Six 357 Mag. Ol reliable. Ugly, needed combat grips to be usable. Revolvers work, plain and simple. Pull the trigger it goes BOOM over and over. Get a jam on a semi-auto and you better have a LOT of training to clear it under duress and get back into action. You cannot go wrong with a revolver. Keeping a gun in your glove box or briefcase is as good as just giving away to the first person who hassles you. You'll never get it out in time. It's either on your body or worthless. Get some training- if you are really concerned about your safety, take a class in executive protection or advanced personal protection. 99% of what people think they can do, they cannot when the proverbial poo hits the fan. If someone wants the bimmer- let 'em have it. Close quarters combat with an unknown assailant is not a good idea- most carjackers etc now keep a "watch" standing off to the side to cap you if you are a problem. If he gets in your car, you cannot blast him all over the inside of your car- you'd go down for murder. Best you could hope for is that he turns around to try to mow you down. Just my 2 cents worth. | ||
| Perry Ray Miller (Discojunky) Member Username: Discojunky Post Number: 100 Registered: 03-2003 |
SC Young, Who did the work on your combat elite? | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2003 |
I had it done by the Colt Custom Shop. I didn't trust the local gunsmiths. Kept the stiff trigger- light trigger jobs have no place outside of competition and this was a carry piece as well- although retired for the Kimber. They did a ramp job and bigger bevel on the mag well. Custom springs (heavier for hot loads). Forgot to mention- GREAT carry piece if you need concealed carry in warm weather (thin clothes). The Walther PPK/S with slight custom work (ramp) and some HOT ammo. Can hide it easily and great quality- especially the older ones. | ||
| Perry Ray Miller (Discojunky) Member Username: Discojunky Post Number: 104 Registered: 03-2003 |
I'm looking for a good IDPA (Stock Service Pistol) gun and have been thinking about a 1911, Thanks. | ||
| eduardo (Jmonsrvr) Member Username: Jmonsrvr Post Number: 84 Registered: 07-2003 |
where do you guys live? those of you who have guns for protection that you need so much firepower to take out people? south africa? or is it the "i feel cool and powerful with a gun" or is it extreme paranoia? i used to work for the millatary in honduras and nicaragua and im all for people owning guns not arsenals or assault rifles. anyway i am curious as to why ron wants a gun to carry around in pa. in the gun circle i meet all kinds of people that think its cool to have a gun permit and license to carry a concealed weapon. let me tell you most of these people would shit there pants if someone actually popped a shot off at them. one thing-dreaming about shooting someone in self defense and actually shooting someone are two totally different things. fantasizing about combat while target shooting is one thing but actually having someone shoot at you turns the equation upside down. unless you have been there you will never know if you are capable of pulling the trigger at a live moving human target-not to mention someone shooting back. and yes i have experienced it in central america. anyway ..............i like guns too, but for different reasons. | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm a combat vet of close-quarters non-Geneva Convention type stuff and also did police work in DC (murder city). You're right to an extent, but why draw a line between a little gun and a big gun or a hunting rifle vs. an "assault" rifle. I'd rather have some idiot with an SKS after me than someone with a WalMart weatherby 300 after me. Training is the key- if you are going to carry, the minimum training should about about 80 hours more than it is. The guys who carry because they have small johnsons or whatever give a bad rep to anyone who carries for more legitimate reasons. | ||
| Wicks (Wicks) Member Username: Wicks Post Number: 150 Registered: 03-2003 |
Recommending a GLOCK to a new owner is simply assinine, no apologies. You need something with standard safety, etc. I got one of the last S&W stainless 9MMs with 12 in the clip +1 in the hole. Very comfortable grip, safer than something like a glock, and would only miss if it was aimed at a Lama (not the animal). | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2003 |
Newbies have a tendency to put their fingers on the trigger before being necessary- so the "safety" in the trigger and firing pin of the Glock is not as effective as a trigger block safety of a "traditional" pistol in avoiding accidental discharge. I like the 1911 grip safety. Won't go boom without a firm grip- manual safety for when you feel you need it (holstered). An intrusive safety guarantees a newbie without proper training ends up screwed. They ALWAYS forget to take off the safety or fumble with it when under duress... The Glock is not my cup of tea, but the safeties on it work very well but tend to lead to unintentional shootings when used by under-trained people. | ||
| Donald (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 143 Registered: 11-2003 |
There seems to be a common thread here. Putting foo in the hands of "Newbies" without proper training in foo is a Bad Thing. This much seems straightforward, sensible and possibly even correct. There also seems to be a conclusion which derives from the above. That therefore said "Newbies" should not have or get or have access to foo. This is diabolically skewed logic. Might I suggest that the appropriate conclusion would be, "Proper training is an imperative." There. I've said it. Now by all means go fight the pro-Glock / anti-Glock religious wars, but pretty please can we avoid using untrained users as cases in point. On the other hand, once the operator has been properly trained, a Glock does clearly present less opportunity for the less frequently practiced operator (whose responses are not yet entirely instinctive and subsconscious) to make a mistake in the handling of the safety. | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 31 Registered: 10-2003 |
I was merely addressing the "stigma" that Glocks seem to have because of the non-intrusive safeties and how that is an advantage to a skilled user and a disadvantage to the lesser skilled user. I think it's very important when considering that brand- but I'm not part of the pro/anti glock thing. I've had 'em and don't feel strongly either way about 'em. The people who were asking the bulk of the questions stated they have no experience- hence the advice geared towards those individual(s). Just trying to help. | ||
| Perry Ray Miller (Discojunky) Member Username: Discojunky Post Number: 119 Registered: 03-2003 |
ed, I live in the USA and unfortunetly we do have crime here. Do you have car insurance? Have you ever had to use it? I have paid for insurance for 26 years and have never used it but I feel the need to have it. But keeping my car isurance dosn't make me parinoid of having a accident. So, having a legal handgun around if I choose is kinda' like life insurance. Dosn't make me rambo,dosn't make me parinoid ,it dosn't even give me a warm fuzzy feeling it's just business. But that being said if I would be forced to use it I want accuracy, reliability and stopping power on my side. And there is no subsitute for knowing your weapon and how to use it. And as for using it (God forbid)if some puts me in a situation where I feel like the only alternative is to pull a gun I'm sure that self presveration will push me to do what I feel necessary. | ||
| Steve Rupp (Steve_rupp) Member Username: Steve_rupp Post Number: 125 Registered: 03-2003 |
John, if you think the Python is a POS, please explain. Ho, You must really like the Glocks If personal protection is what you are looking for this is my weapon of choice. It's small enough to fit into a boot and has nothing to catch on the way up. I am absolutly positive that it will fire everytime. Without a safety or hammer, nothing can go wrong. And at 20' or less (where 99% of self defence shots are taken) it is accurate enough. And after 20' it usually means that the guy is running so you shouldn't take the shot anyway (Tenn. vs. Garner). If you can't see from the picture, I use Corbon 38 SPEC+P+ 110GR JHP.  | ||
| Dave Statler (Falconx84) Member Username: Falconx84 Post Number: 90 Registered: 02-2004 |
My personal favorite is a SW 9mm, ex military or police. I don't have itwith me at school here, so I can't remember the model number. Its not manufactured any more, but its really similiar to this one http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293614&item=831438&sw_acti veTab=1 the little lever in the upper right of the pic is the safety and de-cocks the hammer. It literally blacks the hammer from striking the firing pin no matter how much abuse you give it. After disassembling it about 5 times, I can have it field stripped in roughly 7 -10 sec and reassembled in less than 20. It was and still is the only 9mm I use, and at about 15-20 yards, I have a spread of 6-8." Keep in mind, I've shot less than 300 rounds with this gun and less than 600 with any pistol. Safe, easy to use, accurate, well balanced, durable -- plus i have the police/military version so its black w/ black rubber handgrips. Purchased for $100 @ gun show - appraises between $300-800. 300 being for a civilian model, 800 being for a high quality (and rarer) military piece. Couldnt ask for a better gun. I let my bro in law shoot it once and he offered me $500 on the spot for it. And this is a man who knows his guns. | ||
| Dave Statler (Falconx84) Member Username: Falconx84 Post Number: 91 Registered: 02-2004 |
Just noticed this --
I live in rural west virginia. If I go 55 mph on a 3 mph back road, it takes me 20 min to get to the nearest police station. Assuming there is actually someone there and they are not out on another call, it would take them at least 30 min to get to my house. And honestly, I'm not far from a main road, only 15 miles from an interstate highway. So assuming I can actually get to a phone and be able to dial 911, it would still take the police at least 30 min to respond. A lot can happen in 30 min. I was out one night around 10 pm taking a friend back home. A call went out on the police-band scanner about a residential alarm. The call literally went out every other minute for 20 min straight before an officer could even respond accepting the call. It then took them another 45 min (at least) to get directions and actually find the neighborhood. If you're keeping track, over an hour has passed and they still didnt get to the house. Imagine what could happen in an hour. I'm not blaming the police, this is one of the fastest-growing yet least funded areas of the state. It's a lot of ground to cover. Not pointing fingers or placing blame, but there comes to a point when one has to take matters into his own hands. Thats why I have a 9mm SW beside my bed and a 20 gauge shotgun in my closet. Along with a "non-lethal" big-ass maglite that doubles as a club. Too bad using it as such voids the warrenty the world we live in -- sad but true | ||
| Dave Statler (Falconx84) Member Username: Falconx84 Post Number: 92 Registered: 02-2004 |
speaking of non-lethal, check out tactical flashlights. They're bright enough to literally blind and stun someone. They're blinded, but you can see who/what it is. Could mean the difference between a carjacker and a kid with a cap gun. sorry for the multiple posts... its almost 5am and i havent been to bed yet -- ah, the joys of dweb.... | ||
| Steve Rupp (Steve_rupp) Member Username: Steve_rupp Post Number: 136 Registered: 03-2003 |
One good hit to the head of a mag light is more lethal than you think. | ||
| Dave Statler (Falconx84) Member Username: Falconx84 Post Number: 95 Registered: 02-2004 |
thats where the quote marks come in.... its a gray area | ||
| S.C.Young (Youngsc) New Member Username: Youngsc Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2003 |
Maglights can also be carried under the seat of the Rover and are not considered a concealed weapon- a small bat, ASP, knife etc is a concealed weapon. Just make sure the flashlight works- one guy in MD got a $500 fine for a concealed weapon because he had a maglight without a bulb under the seat. Strange world we live in. | ||
| Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith) Senior Member Username: Kennith Post Number: 420 Registered: 05-2002 |
1873 model Colt Peacemaker, chambered .45 Long Colt. That's what I have. It never jams, and it's always ready for a huge punch. Cheers, Kennith |
