| Author | Message | ||
     BJ Turner (Wturner) Senior Member Username: Wturner Post Number: 274 Registered: 02-2002 |
HA, get a load of this garbage. "Consumer Reports rates 14 four-wheel-drive vehicles...from the best down." Toyota Tacoma TRD  Chevrolet Avalanche Toyota Tundra Toyota Land Cruiser Land Rover Discovery Toyota 4Runner Lexus GX470 Dodge Ram Land Rover Freelander Jeep Grand Cherokee Kia Sorento  Nissan Xterra VW Touareg Mitsubishi Montero  WORST Chevy Trailblazer/GMC Envoy Ford Explorer Sport Trac Ford Explorer Ford Expedition | ||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) Senior Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 485 Registered: 08-2003 |
Chevy Avalance? Maybe my dads truck will become a better offroad vehicle if I put a lot of plastic on it | ||
| Sergei Rodionov (Uzbad) Senior Member Username: Uzbad Post Number: 329 Registered: 08-2003 |
Yet another proof of how worthless those reports are. | ||
| Andy Maier (Newman) Senior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 597 Registered: 04-2003 |
Why? Don't Land Cruisers still come with factory lockers? Aren't Tundras built on the same frame? Funny to see the Monty so low...they really ran away from utility with those things -- back in the 80s and 90s those were neat little wheeling trucks... | ||
| Bob Shinn (Bshinn) Member Username: Bshinn Post Number: 95 Registered: 01-2004 |
Tacoma & the Tree (Sequoia) share the basic frame. Toyota stopped offering the lockers in NA Landcruisers back in 98 w/ the introduction of the IFS 100 series. They assumed (& were right) that no one buying a 60K mall crawler would be interested. RR lead the pack, then the Cruiser went to shit now the Disco. Is nothing sacred? | ||
| Nathan Hindman (Nathanh) Member Username: Nathanh Post Number: 164 Registered: 07-2002 |
I'm OK with the Toyota's being rated up at the top, they're pretty decent rigs on the trail, but I'm a little miffed at what in the hell the Avalance is doing up there. Any link to the article? I'd like to see what criteria they used. Thanks, Nathan Hindman http://www.pangaea-expeditions.com | ||
| Craig Dickson (Red90) New Member Username: Red90 Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2003 |
Consumer reports and magazines like it are for namby pambys that can't make up their own mind and want to be told what to buy. If someone has to read a magazine to be told what kind of blender or vacumn cleaner to buy than they desrve to drive an Avalanche. | ||
| James Hamilton (Rocknroll) New Member Username: Rocknroll Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2004 |
Bob, Toyota still offered a rear electric locker in Land Crusiers until 2000 when a traction control system became standard. All Land Cruisers ever made have a CDL. The Sequoia and Tundra are on the same frame, the Tacoma is a bit smaller. Although the 100 series Land Cruiser (and Lexus LX470) have IFS, they are still pretty capable off-road rigs, though not as much as they're 80 series predecessors. For an IFS system, they do have a decent amount of front wheel travel. FWIW, Consumer reports rates vehicles like appliances. I would sooner ask my Grandma what she thought than utilize their rankings in a vehicle purchase decision. | ||
| Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Senior Member Username: Markp Post Number: 272 Registered: 02-2002 |
Yup, pretty worthless. Followed a Avalanche into the parking lot today and noticed all the stuff hanging down below the axles around the wheels. This included ABS wires and ?. I wouldn't take that vehicle into a brush field, let alone off road. The worst list needs to be alot bigger. | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1381 Registered: 09-2002 |
well, and having Freelander ahead of a Grand Cherokee (as an off-road vehicle) says a lot, too. (about Consumer Reports, that is) | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 1105 Registered: 09-2002 |
Consumer Report does rate appliances. I found the GE iron I bought to be quite a good purchase.  | ||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Senior Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 765 Registered: 07-2002 |
I would think the Tacoma and Tundras are good, especially with the off-road package. Even though I have a 2" lift and 225/75 tires, my dad's new 4 door Tundra still has higher approach, breakover, departure, and total body clearance than me. I bet he has a lower center of gravity also, being wider and with out the full cab of a true SUV. (However, mine is 10 years old! There are technology differences, even in the solid axle built trucks.) I would certainly put Toyota up with Land Rover, but as far as actual SUV's off road, Land Rover would probably win - all things equal. Now, about the Avelanche, that's almost too wierd to not be a mistake... just... wierd. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 640 Registered: 11-2002 |
well shit in shit out consumer reports sends out questionaires that need to be filled out and sent back. surprize surprize they send them to the same damn people. So you get the same shitty result over and over no matter what the product they rate. so if some guy gets one and it says "do you take your full size SUV off road" the guy thinks back and says yes I park my Avalanche in the gravel and dirt lot at my softball games. and answers it Yes I do 2x a week hence the Avalanche is good off-road to a consumer reports respondee. Any body here ever respond to junk mail surveys?...didnt think so....guess we will have to stick to further down the list | ||
| Bob Shinn (Bshinn) Member Username: Bshinn Post Number: 96 Registered: 01-2004 |
James, We have a 100 series in the family, I agree it would be a very capable truck in the boonies if one only had the stones to bend a $60k rig. Didn't realize that a rear locker was available on the 100 @ all, kudos to Toy for keeping the CDL. I misspoke above I meant the Tundra & Tree. hehe. | ||
| Bill Rogers (Dc_plasterer) Member Username: Dc_plasterer Post Number: 103 Registered: 11-2003 |
"well, and having Freelander ahead of a Grand Cherokee (as an off-road vehicle) says a lot, too." hehe | ||
| Alan E. Foster (Vt_alan) Member Username: Vt_alan Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2003 |
See the USAToday article from which this thread started for a partial explanation: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-03-02-trucks_x.htm It doesn't seem that the results were based on surveys, but rather what sounds like a 1-dimensional test, over rocks. No mention of fording depth or side slope stability, etc. Not such a surprise then about the Avalanche, I'd guess it'd be acceptable in a small rock field -- wouldn't want to see it actually out in the real world! | ||
| Alan E. Foster (Vt_alan) Member Username: Vt_alan Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2003 |
... also, I'm guessing the Avalanche they tested was equipped as follows: Z71-Premium Off-Road Suspension Package with rear locking differential, specially tuned shock absorbers, Traction Assist -- yields 8.8" of ground clearance with the 17" wheel package. Still a POS truck IMO, but helps explain to me how it did so well on the "off-road course", LOL | ||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Senior Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 766 Registered: 07-2002 |
Doesn't say how they actually tested them. We all know that each truck is different in different situations, and that a different driver in a new truck each time would easily skew any results. And we all know getting any of those off-road in any of the measly to difficult trails we routinely travel would destroy the Fords, Chevys, and GMC's. Whenever a survey like this comes up all I have to do is go look at my Camel Trophy videos. Did anyone catch the rip-up of the Ford line down below - I guess next year the Land Rover Discovery will score in the "worst" category, since it will be built with the same suspension and frame design as the Fords. | ||
| Musky Rover (Gumarcel) Senior Member Username: Gumarcel Post Number: 1226 Registered: 11-2002 |
did they just drive them on some dirt roads? | ||
| Perry Ray Miller (Discojunky) Member Username: Discojunky Post Number: 90 Registered: 03-2003 |
I'm with Musky, Off Road to consumer reports is probably a gravel road or a dirt road like you see in all the commercials. So, it just comes down to which one "they" liked best or more than likely who bought em' off. | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 919 Registered: 02-2002 |
I'll never forget CR reporting that a Porsche 911 handled poorly on a twisty road. totally lost all credibility imho. Jaime | ||
| Donald (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 129 Registered: 11-2003 |
> Any body here ever respond to junk mail surveys?... Only if they're on a Norwegian website in a language I don't understand... | ||
| Tyler kinghorn (Flippedrover) Member Username: Flippedrover Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2003 |
"The suspension systems and chassis layouts that do so well on pavement hampered the vehicles on the magazine's challenging slope, strewn with boulders and smaller rocks embedded in concrete so the rocks are in the same place for each test." Really challenging huh? | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) Senior Member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 708 Registered: 11-2002 |
No Wrangler Rubicon? That seems strange to me. | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 1110 Registered: 09-2002 |
Well the Kia Sorento is on that list and ahead of the Xterra and Toureg so not sure about the accuracy of the results. Like Greg said, no Rubicon? I stopped reading Consumer Report a long time ago when I started seeing stupid things like this. | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) Senior Member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 709 Registered: 11-2002 |
No Hummer H1 either, and I would think the H2 would be at the top of a list like this | ||
| Max Thomason (Lrmax) Senior Member Username: Lrmax Post Number: 306 Registered: 11-2002 |
Does anyone have any video of an chebby Avalanche actually doing something off road? I know Craniac made a few movies and picks of his H2 going off road. That one man, going off road has given me some respect for that vehicle, but I haven't seen an (remotely stock) avalanche hitting it up off road. I know that one of the magazines tricked out an avalanche a while ago. But they installed a pimpin' dana 60 front and rear (ditched IFS), like a twin shifter transfer case, beefed up the rest and its running 37s (or about that big). They wheeled the piss out of that thing up at Tellico but the rig could take it cause it was (re)built for that kind of terrain. I'd like to see a stock-ish truck go at it (some lift and tires are prefectly fine IMO). Personally, I got a ye olde' 88 GMC pickup and it is sweet as long as I got pavement under me. Its a pavement pounding load hauler. Its got 2WD and does that job very, very well. I've gone on some dirt with it before and it sucks to try to get it out with no front axle of any sort (hell, even crappy IFS would help out). But they've been marketing the avalanche as a off road-ish rig and I wanna see off road! Now I have a lot of respect for the tacomas. They seem to be alright. I've been around them and they've been formatable little vehicles expecially with the stock rear locker. I've wheeled' with one and his stock truck with decent ATs could keep up with all of the tricked out trucks with no issues. That is about the only decent off road rig Toyota has to offer in the US. I am surpised that the Izuzu ain't up there. My dad used to own a Trooper and that thing was about the best all around rig ever. Max T. Less talk, more trails! | ||
| Felix Gumbiner (Felixthecat) New Member Username: Felixthecat Post Number: 22 Registered: 02-2004 |
My buddy's '97 Trooper is one hell of a little truck. We do a lot of wheeling together, and I'd say it can do most of the stuff my stock '96 Disco can do, although without the "cool". Too bad it's ugly as sin. | ||
| John Gadd (Roverdude) New Member Username: Roverdude Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2003 |
"I guess next year the Land Rover Discovery will score in the "worst" category, since it will be built with the same suspension and frame design as the Fords." Where did you get this info? From the next booth in the coffee shop? Next thing you'll be claiming it's on a Jag XJ platform. Same chat I heard before the 03 RR came out. | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 1113 Registered: 09-2002 |
John, You don't think that's where this is heading (platform/parts sharing)? From a business stand point, it makes sense to Ford to try and standardize where possible. And after a while if you share enough parts, you can eventually start building in the same locations. Aren't the wheelbases of the new Disco and Explorer similar? When the spy photos first came out it was of an Explorer testing out the new "Disco chassis" which leads one to believe that if an Explorer shell fits on it, they could use the same frame right? They've already done it with Jag so it's not a far leap to think it will happen with LR. | ||
| James Hamilton (Rocknroll) New Member Username: Rocknroll Post Number: 13 Registered: 01-2004 |
"James, We have a 100 series in the family, I agree it would be a very capable truck in the boonies if one only had the stones to bend a $60k rig." If yours is a 2000 or newer you don't necessarily get the short end of the stick. While not having an optional rear locker, they have a more robust front differential. You can get front and rear ARB's to lock-em, get some sway-away, Slee Offroad, or the soon-to-come OME tortion bars for the front, some OME springs for the rear, etc., etc. and have a very capable expedition type setup, even some mild crawling perhaps. | ||
| John Gadd (Roverdude) New Member Username: Roverdude Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2003 |
Concerning the Discovery replacement. It will not even be called a Discovery. And I wouldn't want to speculate. That would only grind the rumor mill. What I can tell you, is I've driven next to a disguised pair for about 5 miles on the freeway here in So. CA. I didn't paticularly "love" the initial asthetics. But I have also witnessed video of this thing on a race track in Germany and it is flippin' fast. I've been told (by a reliable source) it will have a multiple setting for the suspension. Including off-road. Again I refer back to the Range Rover before it was launched. Everyone was up in arms about the possible lack of off-road ability. I have personally driven a 2003 over the entire Miller Jeep Trail and it was impressive. I hope the 2005 Discovery replacement has this much improvement. | ||
| Garth Petch (Garth) New Member Username: Garth Post Number: 39 Registered: 02-2003 |
I find all these concerns about parts sharing with Ford quite amusing...did you know that the door handles and some of the switchgear for a D1 are from a Morris Marina? You can be thankful that this marvel of engineering never made it outside the Commonwealth | ||
| Jack Leitch (Liveattheedge) Member Username: Liveattheedge Post Number: 194 Registered: 12-2003 |
y isn't the new range rover on the list. My understanding was that it surpasssed the current discovery (stock) off road, and was just under a stock D90. I read it in one of my LRO's, and have heard it else where. Jack | ||
| Alan Yim (Alan) Senior Member Username: Alan Post Number: 1117 Registered: 09-2002 |
This is Consumer Report Jack...what did you expect? If it was really about off-road abilities, there's all kinds of vehicles that should have made the top 14 than some of those that are on there. |
