| Author | Message | ||
     chris (Chrisseries1) Member Username: Chrisseries1 Post Number: 116 Registered: 03-2004 |
today while on the trail we were in deer heaven. there were tree stands all over and some deer were spotted. but we also found a deer feeder. it was suspened high up and dispensing corn. it was empty. but it must be used in the season. so is it legal to bait deer while the season is open or what. | ||
| Dave Statler (Falconx84) Member Username: Falconx84 Post Number: 97 Registered: 02-2004 |
i guess it depends on the state -- in WV it's illegal to shoot a deer over bait. I think u have to wait a few days (5-10 i think) before you can hunt that spot. check with the game warden to be sure. | ||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Senior Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 777 Registered: 07-2002 |
Around here we drive and hike for miles just to get the one shot. In some parts you can only pack-horse your stuff in for the week. But we were surpised to see that in Georgia the local Wal-Marts all had isle displays with three ingedience: pyramid of deer bait, pyramid of ammo, pyramid of beer. | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Senior Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 412 Registered: 07-2003 |
It is not illegal to feed deer, but it is illegal to hunt over bait. | ||
| Todd Nash (Nash) Member Username: Nash Post Number: 42 Registered: 02-2003 |
It just depends on the state. In Texas, I went on some guided hunts over those mechanical feeders. At first I thought it was crazy. It didn't seem very sporting. But, that's just the way they do it. Crikey, in NC people "let the dogs loose", who then proceed to tree a bear. You then walk up to the treed, panicked, cowering bear and shoot him. He falls out of the tree (hopefully) and everyone has a pork-chop. When in Rome, I guess. In FL we would swim up to groupers, nearly stick our spears in their sides, fire and call it "spearfishing". At times it was almost as hard as going to the deli. | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Senior Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 413 Registered: 07-2003 |
In Va, we cover ourselfs in mud, lay on a river bank, and wait untill a 1000lb polor bear comes to get a drink. We the proceded to thump him apon the head and sholders very rapidly untill he drops to the ground dead. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 894 Registered: 11-2002 |
Its legal in MD to hunt over a corn pile. Subsequently there are kernels all over the back of the stocker...  | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 956 Registered: 02-2002 |
a lot of folks use a salt lick as well. another concept is to have many crab apple trees and a pond on your property. deer will get used to the area and come open season, they are in their pattern and well you get the idea. this is totally legal albeit not very sporting in my book. Jaime | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 895 Registered: 11-2002 |
"Sporting" ???? LOL , I am sitting ina tree with a gun. He has just 4 legs and maybe some antlers and doesnt know I am there... Its not very "Sporting" any way you look at it unless we start running them down and biting into their necks.... | ||
| Joey (Joey4420) Senior Member Username: Joey4420 Post Number: 667 Registered: 04-2003 |
Gee all this talk about deer hunting...I just walk out the back door and can find 6 to 8 deer out side every afternoon. If I do want to go hunting, I just walk around the hill and wait a few minutes....shoot deer....gut deer...drag deer home...hunting over. I normally get mine withing the first 2 hours of the day when I do go hunting... Only go when my Dad is in town, more to spend time with him then to hunt deer. | ||
| Matt Taylor (Whodatmatt) New Member Username: Whodatmatt Post Number: 20 Registered: 09-2003 |
Yeah, Kyle, but "sporting" refers to being sportsmanlike, not necessarily to being fair. I personally have no interest in killing anything that's not a fish, though I've been along on a few deer hunts. Not that it makes much difference to the deer, but I'd lose some respect for the guy who baits. In south Louisiana, there used to be big fights all the time about gillnets, and recreational fishermen and commercial fisherman were bitter enemies not so long ago. The hippies were all talking about what's fair to the fish, and the fact is that nothing is really fair to the fish, but that's not to say you shouldn't be sportsmanlike. Those arguments were more about conservation, but down here baiting deer is like cheating. Of course, in areas where deer are overpopulated, harvesting a bunch is a good thing, and the people that make the rules for the area surely know what is best. Any of you guys have ever been or have an opinion on Bowfishing? That's something that I heard is a lot of fun, though it sounds like shining fish to me. Don't know if I could feel good about that, but I'd be willing to see what it's like. | ||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Senior Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 363 Registered: 06-2003 |
Hunting bear with a knife. That sounds sporty. Anyone game for that? | ||
| Peter Carey (Peterca) Member Username: Peterca Post Number: 92 Registered: 10-2003 |
They hand out grenades at our local zoo. Those damn zebra are further away than they look. | ||
| Tyler kinghorn (Flippedrover) Member Username: Flippedrover Post Number: 81 Registered: 12-2003 |
"Sporting" ???? LOL , I am sitting ina tree with a gun. He has just 4 legs and maybe some antlers and doesnt know I am there... Its not very "Sporting" any way you look at it unless we start running them down and biting into their necks.... Who's up for trying that? :-) | ||
| flyor (Flyor) Member Username: Flyor Post Number: 80 Registered: 05-2003 |
I think if the deer see this post they'll get some ideas. Like what to bait us with. A pile of lockers, roof racks, hella lights, speedmasters, beer, you get the idea. We come up to the pile then the deer run out and impale us with there're antlers. Seriously, here in Michigan it's illegal to bait in some areas. There is a TB concern. Apparantly the deer pass it between them when there're noses rub together in the bait pile. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 898 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dont get me wrong. I have Either shot or beaten to death anything that walks crawls , swims or Flies thats in our area. With that said it was a lifestyle , not a sport... Not much sporting about putting a slug in a very large target that doesnt know you are there...The bait is for population control. We have some issues down here and its either that or the farmers shoot them in the dead of summer and let them rot where they drop.. Kyle | ||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 88 Registered: 01-2004 |
Ya, it may not be very sporting but, it puts food on the table. Not to mention that there are too many of them in this area and they need to have their numbers thinned out. Of course the same could be said about people in this area too. My step dad made some of the best deer sausage this year.. Yummmm makes me hungry just thinking about it. | ||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) Senior Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 507 Registered: 08-2003 |
We hunt mulies here in Nevada. I've never hunted from a stand, let alone using bait. It's basically spot and stalk. We walk a LOT, but I like it that way. Chuckar hunting is the same way... lots of steep hills. There's nothing better than looking over a ridge and seeing a group of monster mulies. We spent anout 2 hours stalking my last buck who was about 1 mile away when we spotted him. I'll never forget that hunt. Whitetail hunting is something I've always wanted to experience though. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 899 Registered: 11-2002 |
The hunthing out there is much more physical and visual then it is over here. White tail hunting would pale in comparison I am afraid. Now the bird hunting I am all over.... Chukars get up pretty good and they are pretty tastey | ||
| Perry Ray Miller (Discojunky) Member Username: Discojunky Post Number: 129 Registered: 03-2003 |
Unless your a vegetarian don't be so quick to knock us deer hunters! I guess its o.k. for farmer Joe to lead a cow down a ramp and bash its head in so you and your family can have a "Happy Meal" at Mcdonalds but its wrong for me to shoot a bow at an animal that at least has a chance! Remember folks, all that meat your buying at your local grocery store was alive too, you just let some one else do your killing for you. | ||
| DW (Dcw) New Member Username: Dcw Post Number: 24 Registered: 01-2004 |
>Not much sporting about putting a slug in a very large target that doesnt know you are there< So are you ashamed of what you did? Will agree that deer hunting with a gun can be easy but� I remember going hunting dressed to still hunt instead of hunting out of my stand. Came up over a hill and spotted a very nice buck bedded down on a ridge below me. As it was he didn�t offer a clean kill, so I stood there in 30 degree weather, with a strong wind blowing in my face and lightly dressed, for an hour and fifteen minutes waiting for him to stand. So yes I�ve sat in my stand and whacked the first deer that came along for meat but deer hunting can be so much more than that. And while it my not be quiet as challenging as �running them down and biting into their necks� one might try archery. | ||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) Senior Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 779 Registered: 07-2002 |
I've only been once, but probably the best is hunting antelope and black tail out in the high desert. You see your prey a mile away... catch is, they see you from two miles away... And isn't it so humiliating when you sneeeeeeaaaak into a clearing for 20 minutes on your hands and knees - then you realize there have been two doe looking at you the whole time from 20 feet away? Rocky Mountain Elk hunting is fun too, they are invisible when not moving, but sound like an M1A2 coming through the woods when they do get up and go. They also have this niffty feature of taking their antlers off when they see a hunter. Some have tote bags they stick 'em in and carry 'em under their bellies when moving. (Surplus material) Makes it real tricky when you think you see a bull, then you can't find him again. I know a guy who hunts bears by going into their dens. Not sure if he's around anymore, now that I think of it. | ||
| Todd Nash (Nash) Member Username: Nash Post Number: 44 Registered: 02-2003 |
Matt Taylor asks "Any of you guys have ever been or have an opinion on Bowfishing?" I grew up bowfishing in Wyoming. We couldn't hunt antelope and deer in the spring/summer, so we'd canoe around the trees in the local lakes. 2-3 feet of water. Sometimes we'd walk the shallow streams too. It's harder than you'd think. You have to shoot high/low depending on the depth of the fish. (Think about how a spoon looks bent in a glass of tea/water.) Good practice for the off-season hunter or particularly blood-thirsty. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 900 Registered: 11-2002 |
DW you dont get my point. When I was growing up it was our lifestyle. Not a "Sport"... Over the years I have seen my county's woods fill up with "Sport" hunters and it makes me sick. The really telling part of this is that when it was more old school local hunters hunting we didnt have a Deer population problem. They were equal oportunity killers. The "Sport" hunters are looking for antlers (Which taste like shit by the way) and will let the Doe population steady rise to the point that farmers have to pull permits to just do away with them... The whole thing is pretty ironic.... | ||
| Matt Taylor (Whodatmatt) New Member Username: Whodatmatt Post Number: 21 Registered: 09-2003 |
I'll tell you this, I'd rather eat venison than just about anything else. For the bowfishing trips down here, you pile onto a flatboat rigged with lights all over the sides and the bow, then you cruise shallow water and pockets. I've never been, but I heard that you just lean over the side and plunk them. Gotta aim a little high or low. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 901 Registered: 11-2002 |
Elk is much better Matt... Much better... | ||
| Matt Taylor (Whodatmatt) New Member Username: Whodatmatt Post Number: 23 Registered: 09-2003 |
I've heard it's a good meat, but I've never had any elk. You don't see too many of them running around on the bayou... | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 855 Registered: 06-2002 |
I'm still trying to develop a taste for venison...we've got a freezer full of burger and tenderloin meat, but I need some recipes! Chili is good with the burger and I've had some good jerky... We tried buffalo burger, Ivan loved it, but I didn't! Elk...interesting.... | ||
| Walter Dent (Walter) Member Username: Walter Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'd hunt if there was a cow season. It seems to be frowned upon around here though. Kroger does my gardening too! | ||
| DW (Dcw) New Member Username: Dcw Post Number: 25 Registered: 01-2004 |
Kyle Yeah I really didn�t know how to take your post, the last one cleared it up. Myself I enjoy deer hunting to no ends. I�ve killed enough deer that as far as bucks are concerned I�m pretty picky, but we use deer burger in a lot of our cooking and my relatives always want some so I reek havoc with the doe population around here. As a side note my nice and her husband are lawyers* and live in DC. I kill a deer for them every year, I guess they get a kick out of treating their friends to venison. >Elk is much better Matt... Much better...< >I'd hunt if there was a cow season.< There is, it�s called Elk season. *He was part of the legal team that prosecuted Bill Clinton. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 902 Registered: 11-2002 |
Deer meat is often said to be better then beef but I am not buying that anyone really thinks that. I ate nothing but deer growing up and got used to it , BUT , I always knew beef was better. Elk on the other hand , is better then Beef hands down.. Yeah its probably pretty poshe for the city boys to serve up some deer.. I hate that shit... | ||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) Senior Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 510 Registered: 08-2003 |
I've had some pretty darn good venison, and some that I would hesitate to feed to my dog. Mule deer here live in some pretty harsh places, and a life of eating wild brush can affect the taste of the meat. Compare that to a lazy cow that eats alfalfa all day. Odds are the cow is going to taste better, and be more tender. I've also heard that the way the animal is killed can effect the taste too. For example, if you wound an animal, and it runs for a long distance before dying. The long run leaves the muscles full of blood when the animal dies (which I pressume may effect the taste of the meat). That's why we let our deer hang for 7-10 days in a meat locker. | ||
| Mtb (Mtb) Member Username: Mtb Post Number: 42 Registered: 02-2003 |
SSV If you have an older deer than it will be alot gamier than the young ones and it depends on what they are feeding on throughout the year. You may want to soak you meat to try to draw more blood out of the meat, we used to use milk (but don't know if it really work. I a'm sure that others here may have better methods) I personally perfer shooting the young ones. As for cooking them we usually slow cook our deer, we never grill ours I feel it is to tough. You may want to try making it into a stew,soups or swiss steaks,ect. Kyle I understand what you are saying about "Sport Hunters" PA is trying to head in that direction with their antler restrictions. Thats OK that meens more Bambi's for my freezer | ||
| SSV (Susannah) Senior Member Username: Susannah Post Number: 857 Registered: 06-2002 |
Awwww....not the BABY BAMBI?! I won't get into this discussion b/c I really don't know much about hunting. My husband and father-in-law hunt a lot on their mountain land, but they only shoot about 3 bucks a year. They will shoot for population control, but don't really make it a habit to kill does or young ones. I guess I'm eating the tough old guys then! We were talking about serving up some wild game at MAR next year...think it would be fun to make a gourmet event out of it! | ||
| Tim '92 RR (Snowman) Senior Member Username: Snowman Post Number: 714 Registered: 12-2002 |
Matthew- Adrenalin is produced from stress, supposedly it changes the taste of the meat. I guess it's best to bag them during their happy hour. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 903 Registered: 11-2002 |
You want to pretty much flip the switch on them with that one shot. If you have to run them down or they get spooked it will taste like shit...Yes its the adrenalin... | ||
| Steve Rupp (Steve_rupp) Member Username: Steve_rupp Post Number: 149 Registered: 03-2003 |
Lights out! | ||
| Matt Taylor (Whodatmatt) New Member Username: Whodatmatt Post Number: 24 Registered: 09-2003 |
my buddy makes tamales out of deer meat at least once a year. I've got a hard on for those things, man. I guess preparation is the key, no mater what the food item. I've heard people rave about wild goose, but the few times I've tried it didn't leave me impressed. People eat nutria down here sometimes. You guys ever heard of that? Nutria look like very large rats, but apparently they are a very clean white meat. I haven't had the opportunity to try it yet. Visions of Bobby Buche... | ||
| Will Cupp (W_cupp) Senior Member Username: W_cupp Post Number: 417 Registered: 07-2003 |
Goose meat is really good. I had some the other night. He used Old Bay seafood seasoning and pan fried them. Very good... I also agree with Kyle, Elk is awesome, and has very little wild taste. At least around where I live, deer meat can go either way on the wild taste. I shot two deer out of the same stand this year. Both mature bucks, and about the same size, and weight. One deer has a strong wild taste. The other, is not bad at all. Both were instant, clean kills, so there was not much time for an adrenalin rush. Only real differnce was one was killed before the rut, and the other during (the one killed during the rut does not have the strong game taste). | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 904 Registered: 11-2002 |
Nutria= Muskrat , run away , run far away..... They smell like shit and taste like it too.....When we were running trap lines I had to come home and skin around 50 of those things every night after school | ||
| Matt Taylor (Whodatmatt) New Member Username: Whodatmatt Post Number: 25 Registered: 09-2003 |
I dunno, I've heard they're good. I haven't mustered up the stones to try one yet, but there is a big movement to try to make them into a delicasy. They don't fit into the local food chain because they were brought to Lousiana by Acadian settlers. About the only thing that eats them is alligators, and the gators ain't getting the job done. The little fuckers are eating precious vegetation around here, so they're trying to get us, the top carnivore, to like them. I think the only people who eat nutria regularly are the prisoners at Angola State Penitentiary. | ||
| Perry Ray Miller (Discojunky) Member Username: Discojunky Post Number: 132 Registered: 03-2003 |
Cow season!? Thats a good one. I do like venison and preperation and cooking does make a difference. But the cow is still way up there for me too. Also high on the list our friend the pig,(bacon, ham, pork chops, sausage, cracklin'...) just don't eat the damn FEET. | ||
| Matt Taylor (Whodatmatt) New Member Username: Whodatmatt Post Number: 26 Registered: 09-2003 |
Big fan of the pig. Love the cracklin. Instant heart attck, though. | ||
| DW (Dcw) New Member Username: Dcw Post Number: 26 Registered: 01-2004 |
The processors around here will make deer into summer sausage, bologna, or franks. My brother has this done and takes it back to Albuquerque[sp] to give away at Christmas. | ||
| Eric N (Eric_n) Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 89 Registered: 01-2004 |
I actually prefer Buffalo/Bison over beef.. But, then I like gator too so maybe my taste buds are just a little off. | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 959 Registered: 02-2002 |
"Sporting" ????" kvt" yeah - fucking sporting. like actually hunting the animal versus sitting in a tree or a trailer waiting for it coming to you. having a property that deer just stand eating apples and drinking water doesn't offer any challenge - real tough shot. that ain't hunting. thats just bullshit. unless its for necessary food - which is a totally different topic. just saying "i got me one" is crap. yeah - hunting; not just sitting around waiting for the animal to come to you. that is not sporting. unless you can't hunt. in which case try fishing - lures and bait are readily used and accepted. yet that ain't hunting - well at least in my def of hunting. and MD.? lol. | ||
| Felix Gumbiner (Felixthecat) Member Username: Felixthecat Post Number: 43 Registered: 02-2004 |
It's a pretty pretentious to suggest there's any honor in "hunting to eat". Unless you eat nothing but what you kill, don't deride the beef industry as "doing the killing for you". Cows have been selected on an evolutionary scale to be eaten by humans, whereas deer have not. The overpopulation of certain deer species is nothing but a result of the general ineptitude and idiocy of our society as a whole--likely caused by the voting record of your average hunter. Hunting in the modern age is nothing more than a savage and sadistic pastime. Any tradition it was once steeped in has long been forgotten. Hanging out with the guys from work on a Sunday, fryin' venison on your Weber, does not absolve the gross bizarreness of the "sport". I'm not trying to call out on the proverbial pulpit that all hunters are crazy, only to repudiate the implication that there is anything intrinsically appropriate or "sportsmanslike" about killing wild animals. "When in Rome", eh? Yeah, just shoot the cowering bear because everyone else is doing it. That's pretty fucking weird, man. | ||
| Matthew A. Barnes (Discoveryxd) Senior Member Username: Discoveryxd Post Number: 514 Registered: 08-2003 |
There have been studies in certain areas of Nevada were EIGHTY PERCENT of the new born antelope population had been killed by coyotes. Now you're telling me that it would be wrong for me to go out and harvest several coyotes considering they have no predators? I have dogs myself, and it's hard taking a shot at something that reminds me of my own pet. You have to realize though, these things must be done or else they will get out of control. Actually, they have gotten out of control. 80% is a big number my friend. I don't doubt those numbers either, considering how many of those damn things I see when I'm up in the hills. The Department of Fish and Game monitors the mule deer population each year. Then they will release a certain number of tags to each specific area in the state to ensure the population stays at a healthy number (or doe to buck ratio). It's called conservation  | ||
| Felix Gumbiner (Felixthecat) Member Username: Felixthecat Post Number: 45 Registered: 02-2004 |
"Harvest" several coyotes? So when you go to the gun shop and get yourself a nice 30 aught six or AR15 Match with JHPs, are you thinking about how much it will help you "conserve" the environment? Please. Regardless of the supposed benefits of game "harvesting", I'd be surprised if the "harvesters" delighted more in the negligent contribution their "harvest" had on the overrall ecosystem than the gruesome satisfaction they enjoyed upon watching a coyote vaporize. Tell me honestly, when you unlock the gun cabinet... Do you think to yourself "Alright, time to go help out the environment", or is it more along the lines of "Mmm, time to sight in my new .44 Winchester... Good thing the government lets me kill coyotes indiscriminately!" I'd say the latter in most cases. Not you necessarily, but for the sake of expediency in this argument I must use overraching generalizations that probably hold true. | ||
| Mtb (Mtb) Member Username: Mtb Post Number: 46 Registered: 02-2003 |
Felix you have absolutly no clue what you are talking about. I hope your major in school has nothing to do with conservation,environment or the ecosystem, because if it does you are in trouble. I would love to explain it to you, but after reading your posts I realized you don't have the intelligence to understand. | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) Senior Member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 735 Registered: 11-2002 |
I used to hunt all of the time. I am from the back woods in the Adirondacks, and hunting season was a big event growing up there. It was on the scale of "Winter, Spring, Summer, Autumn, Bow Season, Rifle Season, Fall" I have shot a few deer in my life, but there is one that will always stay with me. It was Bow season, so Doe were legal. I saw a nice one, pulled up, got her in my sights, and drew back my arrow. She saw me, but didn't run. I let the arrow go, and Bam! Dropped her dead right there where she stood. Just then, her nursing fawn ran out from where she was standing. There was still warm milk at her teats when I got to her. That day I put down my bow and all of my rifles and have only shot paper since. I am not against hunting at all. I love venison. I just can't kill them any more. | ||
| Greg Bright (Gregd2) Member Username: Gregd2 Post Number: 145 Registered: 06-2002 |
Felix and Jaime, I'll put it plain and simple. Hunting is a fact of life. Guns are a fact of life. What's in the mind of a hunter is none of your damn business. If you don't like it, don't hunt. But, don't start preaching about how its wrong and all this other bull shit. Its legal and for many people its a sport and for some its out of necessity. The bottom line is, what you "feel or think" is "wrong or wierd" doesn't make it wrong or illegal. Your opinions are only that, opinions. There are many forms of hunting that help the environment and keep the population levels down. Just because some enjoy pulling the trigger, doesn't mean it doesn't need to be done. You should be happy others are willing to do it, so that you don't have to. | ||
| Matt Taylor (Whodatmatt) New Member Username: Whodatmatt Post Number: 27 Registered: 09-2003 |
Lighten up, Felix. "Cows have been selected on an evolutionary scale to be eaten by humans, whereas deer have not. The overpopulation of certain deer species is nothing but a result of the general ineptitude and idiocy of our society as a whole--likely caused by the voting record of your average hunter" What kind of bullsnap is this? Forget expediency for a minute, Felix, and explain what you're thinking here. I'm an open minded type of dude; convince me that your previous statement isn't absurd. On second thought, I'm not that open minded. Nevermind. | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 960 Registered: 02-2002 |
Greg B., don't confuse me with what Felix said. I enjoy hunting. I'm an avid member of DU and believe without duck hunters there would not be ducks. My point is setting bait to shoot an animal isn't hunting. Lots of folks do it with tree stands, salt licks, etc.. Just don't believe its hunting. I will use decoys and calls for ducks, yet, even with that ducks are pretty "smart". If you want to use bait go FISHING. Jaime | ||
| Jake Hartley (Jake) Senior Member Username: Jake Post Number: 253 Registered: 03-2002 |
Felix: You are just wrong-headed with the simpering statements you have made on this thread. Deer ARE on the same evolutionary food chain. THEY ARE PREY ANIMALS, a non-ruminant herbivore. A cow is a ruminant herbivore. Both have been eaten for years by carnivores. Cattle just happen to be a commercially developed prey, that unless you are in the industry goes from the pretty Bossy chweing cud in the field to a burger at Jack In The Box. Deer do overpopulate and are a major safety problem in both rural and populated areas. In Wisconsin, over 3000 per year are killed by car/motorcycle strikes. There are (by Fish & Wildlife numbers) more deer now than at the beginning of the 1900s. There is also lots more people, so the instance of interaction is more probable. Regarding hunting and the "wow" factor of shooting and killing, I would suggest that you either know first hand about something like this or keep your mouth shut. Most gun owners and hunters are responsible people who do not get a "sadistic rush" from killing. Maybe your mommy and daddy let you watch too much Disney channel when you were growing up. The hunter is not the bad guy and animals do not talk, or have other human characteristics. They are all food for some other animal, even when a predator is dead, buzzards and other scavengers do the clean up work. By the way, coyotes are not cute puppies and when one comes into your suburb and eats your kitty cat or cocker spaniel you will understand why they are harvested. In North Texas here, they are shot on sight and hung over a fence to deter their still living breatheren Matt: "They don't fit into the local food chain because they were brought to Lousiana by Acadian settlers." Actually Nutria are an import from Argentina and were first introduced to LA during the New Orleans World Fair in the 1800's. But you are right they dont taste good and since they have no real enemy, they are over-populating like, well, ur, rats, which is basically what they are. If you want to try Nutria cusine (for whatever reason), go to the Cameron Parish Fur & Wildlife Festival next winter. Plenty of odd food and quirky competitions like "Female Under 12 Nutria Skinning". Bring your camera... By the way how is NOLA? I went to Tulane in the early 80s and lived uptown. What a great city! Looking for a great venison recipe book? Get "Kill It and Grill It" by Ted Nugent, gonzo rocker and bow hunter extrordinare. | ||
| Felix Gumbiner (Felixthecat) Member Username: Felixthecat Post Number: 54 Registered: 02-2004 |
I'm sorry, but it's pretty well understood that deer are not the natural prey of humans in this day and age. Deer has stopped being a staple food upon the introduction of argiculture and other cultigens sometime in the Late Woodland period (AD 900-1300). It became a supplement for next few hundred years, and today only hunters believe they are still part of the food chain. Granted, there are worrisome overpopulations of some species, but like I said before this is due to nothing but our own propensities for habitat destruction. To absolve this with claims of using the pretext of "conservation" is woefully ironic. Damn right coyotes aren't cute puppies, and damn right they'll eat your stupid dog. I wish they'd chew the tires off every car parked in the subdivisions and suburbs that are raping the Western ecosystem. I do know first hand about hunting; I hunted for several years in West Virginia on my uncle's property. If you need me to lend some creedence to this, I can rap with you all day about bore size and the best way to mill deer rifle cartridges. And I can tell you never once in my life have I met a reluctant hunter, who grumbled about wishing he didn't have to "save he environment" upng slaughtering whatever animal he had in his sights. I don't think you have, either. It's a pastime that few who participate in find morally reprehensible or an ethic responsibility. Please don't extrapolate absurd reasons why hunters do what they do--it's all about having fun. I don't know anything about the Disney channel, but I assume that's another inane personal attack. | ||
| DW (Dcw) New Member Username: Dcw Post Number: 27 Registered: 01-2004 |
>I'm sorry, but it's pretty well understood that deer are not the natural prey of humans in this day and age. Deer has stopped being a staple food upon the introduction of agriculture and other cultigens sometime in the Late Woodland period (AD 900-1300). It became a supplement for next few hundred years, and today only hunters believe they are still part of the food chain.< Well� we don�t really need to eat cows now do we, or pigs, chickens, turkey, ect. So I assume you don�t eat any of the above, or own anything made of leather or other animal by-product that could be reproduced synthetically, because to do so would make you a hypocrite. I know a lot of people who hunt that will go out day after day and come home empty handed. So much so that I would swear they aren�t really trying to kill anything. In fact they have stated as much, that they enjoy a day in the field weather they harvest any game or not. I don�t really understand it being a bloodthirsty savage and all, but they seem sincere. So just how would these people fit into your universe Felix? | ||
| Mtb (Mtb) Member Username: Mtb Post Number: 49 Registered: 02-2003 |
Felix I see that your intelligence is shining bright again.  | ||
| Felix Gumbiner (Felixthecat) Member Username: Felixthecat Post Number: 55 Registered: 02-2004 |
Mtb -- Please don't throw in these childish comments. We're having a debate, and if you want to add something constructive please do so. If not, shut the hell up. Why am I talking to you like a child? Because apparently you are. If I'm so dumb, please don't feel like you have to waste your time concocting these witty interludes. I appreciate you all taking time to respond to the discussion, but it seems like words are being put into my mouth and it's becoming personal... I suppose the subject is too contentious, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 916 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jamie , now what part of any of those posts did you not understand ? You either bait the deer and fill the permits when its cold and the animals arent infested with bugs. OR , you dont kill what needs to be killed and the farmers simply shoot them and let them rott in the summer time. This seems like a pretty simple concept but I guess its too complicated for some. YES , I do fish , YES I do shoot Ducks , and Geese and have been doing so since I was about 9 . Felix , please just shutup you dumb ass. Your line is so old and so tired and used by so many others that its hardly readable. I grew up eating Deer and Skinning animals because it was the lifestyle I was born into. Apparently I didnt grow up where they were taking your "statistics". Truth be told , processed meat beacame big because it was killed and processed for those that didnt have the stomach or the nuts to do it themselves... I have no doubt there are still many that exist mainly off of what they kill or catch... You wish the coyotes would eat all the tires ? Well think about how different life would have been if people didnt start catering to those that couldnt fend for themselves... We would live in a completely different world.... Kyle | ||
| John W (Disco_gold) New Member Username: Disco_gold Post Number: 31 Registered: 09-2003 |
>I wish they'd chew the tires off every car parked in the subdivisions and suburbs that are raping the Western ecosystem.< Felix, stop being so high and mighty. I'm assuming you reside in some kind of structure in Colorado. I'm also pretty sure that the school which you attend sits on a big piece of your coveted Western ecosystem, as do the stores, gas stations, restaurants and every other place you frequent. So do the roads on which you drive your vehicles (at least two, judging from your profile). What you seem to be implying is, now that you have your little piece of the world cut out, screw everyone else, growth can now stop. Unless you live a low-impact lifestyle similar to Native Americans until the 1800s or so, make your own clothing, scavenge your own food and walk or use some other means of conveyance that does not run on fossil fuel or electricity, and is not manufactured in a factory, etc, etc, stop whining about the impact modern society has on the environment. You are every bit as much part of the problem as the ecosystem rapists you villify. Walk the walk if you want to talk the talk. Also, no text book or scientific study will tell me what my dietary staple is or should be. If we don't eat deer, lobster, Twinkies or any other non-Felix-approved food staple, beef consumption will increase, along with all the complications associated with its production. | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 818 Registered: 04-2001 |
I have heard of people hunting bear with handguns. That is plenty sporting for me. Not fair but the bear seems to have enough of a chance to make it interesting. Ron PS I had a deer head smoking a cigarette at my place in school, though I did not kill it. i tried to run down a baby cow with my suburban but then I realized what I was doing and went back and got the scout, but I could not find it to run it down. this is the extent of my hunting. | ||
| Todd Nash (Nash) Member Username: Nash Post Number: 48 Registered: 02-2003 |
Wow. Crap. I was going to reply to Felix, as his comments have rubbed me the wrong way. But, KVT and John W. have voiced my opinion for me. For what its worth: "Felix, I know you're young and idealistic. Just remember that not everyone shares your opinions, values or positions. Accepting others and compromise are a big part of life." | ||
| Felix Gumbiner (Felixthecat) Member Username: Felixthecat Post Number: 57 Registered: 02-2004 |
I agree Todd, however I don't feel I was being overly obtuse. The debate was fun until it turned into these issue-skirting personal attacks. It's a good thing maturity comes with age---I have a lot to look forward to. ;) Unfortunately it seems here the dominant position is being construed as the de facto correct one. I guess bleeding heart liberals like myself don't drive Land Rovers! Anyway, enough of my rabble-rousing. | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 820 Registered: 04-2001 |
"I guess bleeding heart liberals like myself don't drive Land Rovers!" Trade it in on a prius there cat boy. Ron | ||
| Jake (Alpineski) New Member Username: Alpineski Post Number: 13 Registered: 03-2004 |
What an interesting thread. New to this forum, I am quickly learning that the initial question posed by the readers quickly become obscured by the need to....debate? speak freely? to argue about the woes of the world. This particular thread has lead to a heated discussion about hunting. Hmm, interesting. Having grown up in the Lutheran church and having studied evolutionary biology in college, the influences to believe in creationism and subsequently evolution, are pretty significant. So how about this, maybe God created the heavens and the earth and all the pretty things and he created all those things to...dare I say...EVOLVE? Could it be possible? So that, along those lines, he created man to evolve as well. He (or she, or whatever) gave us a great start with a brain unlike any other. A brain that had the ability to reason and to judge. A brain that would allow us to do great things....and horrible ones. To the gun we go. Isn't it fair to say that becuase of our great brain we were fortunate to be able to invent/create this great masterpiece which has abled man to survive? Of course it is misused, everything is. Even LRs. Is it fair to hunt? Is it fair not to? Habitat destruction is definitely a causing factor of population booms and population dooms. Deer are definitely a problem. We have removed the natural predators of deer. Any effort to reintroduce them would be met with a public outcry. Obviously hunting is creating a stir. Can't relocate them, there are twice as many to fill the void. So what do we do? Set an extra place setting at the dinner table? Mom? Yes dear? Who's coming to dinner? Oh, just bambie and a few of her friends. Might eat them for desert if this pie doesn't rise. I am not a hunter, at least officially, I fish, sort of. But, a few years ago while camping in the Adirondac Mnts (sp?) I awoke in the moring to find a doe just outside of my tent. Did't care that I was there, I eventually got her to EAT A GRANOLA BAR OUT OF MY HAND!! She was so thin, it was gross. The deer population is filled with tiny deer. They are almost reaching exponential growth (like humans are in now) where the population growth of a species excedes the K (carrying capacity) of the environment of that species. In EVERY instance where exponential growth is reached and nothing changes it, extinction happens. It isn't real common and hasn't happend a lot throughout history, but when it has, that species became extinct. Just food for thought. It is because of public criticism that hunters have had to say they are protecting the environment. Come on. I agree that none of the hunters I know do it for the environment. But SO WHAT? It is a coincidence that they are in turn, doing the deer population a favor. Who cares what you call it. Do it for fun, do it for food, call it saving the environment. Just pick up your guns, walk into the forest or meadow, and hunt. Baiting? Well, whatever floats your boat. I don't think the deer cares whether the bullet goes through his brain from 100 yards or 50 feet. If you stand over a deer with a 45 and shoot it execution style, well, maybe you got some issues to talk about. Me, if I started hunting, I think I would throw rocks or something. Make it fun. I switched to fly fishing because I needed more to do. Haven't caught anything yet, or at least anything significant, but it's more fun for me. I figured if I wasn't going to catch anything, I might as well be getting some excercise. Same goes for hunting, I might as well run after bambie and try to kick it to death. It would be wonderful if we could all be as idealistic as young felix. But, there is this thing called cohabitation. I am not a hunter, and I am nervous about saftey of non-hunters and hunters during hunting season, but....ready, aim, fire... | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) Senior Member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 752 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jake... Got Cliff Notes? | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 919 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jake's post was actually really good. One of the few long ones that I have read through completely.. | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 613 Registered: 10-2002 |
Felix, It's not about being "mature" or "idealistic", it's being brash, single-minded and under-educated. The way you speak in absolutes reeks of nascent Facism. | ||
| Felix Gumbiner (Felixthecat) Member Username: Felixthecat Post Number: 60 Registered: 02-2004 |
Nascent Fascism? Alright, I'm done with this discussion. This is just getting weird. | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 614 Registered: 10-2002 |
What's so weird? They way you write evokes a certain style which lends itself to those who speak in finite terms without the possiblity of thought or evaluation. You rally to an ideal and an ethos, but you use it as if it were scientific truth. It's been done once or twice before by some prominent historical figures. You are all too happy to tell us the way it is with a limited why. You pass opinion off as fact. for example: "Hunting in the modern age is nothing more than a savage and sadistic pastime" You use adjectives which carry emotional and philosophical weight to pass judgement but then you attempt to enter into a discussion based on fact and logic? To me this is putting the cart before the horse. | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 615 Registered: 10-2002 |
one more thing, Don't be mistaken in thinking that Facism wholly equates to Nazism or anti-semtisim. Certainly the term "Facism" or "Facist" carries negative connotations and rightly so, but it is more generally a set of political theories and practices which apply to and have been used by numerous modern groups. This is the context in which I use the word. Remember, there are still Facists today and I'm not talking about just Neo-Nazis or other fringe groups. There are still mainstream Facists groups or political parties in a number of countries. Italy is a pretty good example. Likening your thought process to Facism isn't some form of personal slander or name calling. I'm making a comparison between your apparent line of thought and a recognized political style. I just happen to think that style is ludicrous. | ||
| Luke (Agro1) New Member Username: Agro1 Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2004 |
Or - you could just say he's full of shit and be done with it | ||
| Felix Gumbiner (Felixthecat) Member Username: Felixthecat Post Number: 61 Registered: 02-2004 |
Jack -- Thanks for the dictionary definition on "fascism", as I believe it's spelled. I'm waiting to hear how exactly the Italian Parliament fits in to the issue of shooting animals as sport. Luke -- That's a very insightful line you have there. Keep 'em coming! | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 616 Registered: 10-2002 |
Both are accepted spellings braniac. | ||
| Felix Gumbiner (Felixthecat) Member Username: Felixthecat Post Number: 62 Registered: 02-2004 |
You still need to elaborate on the sociopolitical connection between me, Mussolini, and hunting, Jack. Clearly to you the morphemes of my language are representative of a grandiose political complex; unfortunately the connection to the issue at hand I still fail to see. P.S. I wasn't aware of the alternate spelling of "fascist", and wasn't intentionally being sarcastic.. My apologies. | ||
| Sandy Deke (Disco_deke) New Member Username: Disco_deke Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2004 |
Felix, I suggest you join a group I belong to called PETA -- People Eating Tasty Animals. Our motto is "Kill it and grill it" or just "Whack 'em and stack 'em" if they don't happen to be palatable. BTW, Hitler was fanatical vegetarian, among other things -- totally against hunting and killing things unless they happened to be people he didn't like. So, your position is indeed rooted is fascism. | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 961 Registered: 02-2002 |
Kyle, I get your point and understand what you describe is how most deer are hunted, well at least in W.PA. anyhow. Also totally accept that the herds need to be thinned especially after some of the harder Winters as the food supply dwindles and the colder months are the best time. I just feel that the hunting aspect of it has been removed thats all. That was the case on our PA property - the former owner planted apple trees, put in a pond, sat on a porch by his trailer, and just waited for them to show up. At least he did eat what he shot though. Jaime | ||
| Matt Taylor (Whodatmatt) New Member Username: Whodatmatt Post Number: 28 Registered: 09-2003 |
I still want to taste a nutria burger... | ||
| Matt Taylor (Whodatmatt) New Member Username: Whodatmatt Post Number: 29 Registered: 09-2003 |
and Jake, New Orleans is still a great place to live. Still the northernmost banana republic. Roll Wave Roll. I'm a big Tulane fan, which is hard to be in the age of LSU's co-national championship. | ||
| Jake Hartley (Jake) Senior Member Username: Jake Post Number: 254 Registered: 03-2002 |
nothing like Louisiana, I grew up there and it was like growing up in another country (at least south Louisiana) New Orleans is even more off the wall than the rest of the state, but I love it! | ||
| Luke (Agro1) New Member Username: Agro1 Post Number: 10 Registered: 02-2004 |
Felix - you like that line ? Here's another for ya - Did your parents have any children that lived ? |
