Realistic, Dream Series Rover Project

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Author Message   Dave M. Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:24 am:    I'm sure we'd all love a completely restored ECR Series III with a modern 300TDi, 5 speed, lockers, custom interior, coil sprung chassis, etc, etc, but for most of us, that is a financial impossiibilty. So I have put together my dream Rover, with a more realistic bent. Something I can do myself (mostly) starting from a solid truck and upgrading as money permits. • Series III 109, 5 door. • Parabolic Springs • Rebuilt 2.25 • Electric Starter & Choke • Good Heater & Defroster setup for cold VT winters • 5-speed manual tranny • Freshened interior - Recovered Seats modded for more belly room - Rhino-liner flooring - New weather stripping - LaSalle Headliner • Upgraded brakes • New electrical harness • Upgraded Headlights (Halogen) This is a project I am saving for right now. I've built it in my mind a thousand times and I hope to make this long-time dream a rality in the vey near future. Heck, even my wife is on board with it. :-)   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:38 am:    Not bad.... A couple of comments: A SIII has the dual-brake system. IF, IF adjusted properly, the SIII drum brakes are actually quite capable of halting a Series. Most systems are older, aged rubber, not fresh fluid, dirty components, well-used drums, pads aren't fresh.... You can swap in disc brakes, but.... if you do a good job on the drum system, you should be fine. A five-speed behind the 2.25..... well, it's possible, but.... if you're sticking w/ the 2.25, I'd stick w/ the 4-speed and get an overdrive. Or, 4-speed, overdrive, and a Robert Davis engine. Or, a Robert Davis engine and a 5-speed.... or... lol... It has an electric starter! You just have the crank for when the battery's flat... the crank is actually more useful when setting the timing... I like a manual choke, myself... LaSalle... one place (and it's my favorite, lol...) the Thatched Roof Garage.... The hardest one to accomplish IMHO would be the heater and the defroster.... lol.... Lots of luck! -L   Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:53 am:    I like my little series the way it is. True, I would like it "as new" so it would be easier to keep on top of things versus playing catch up with years of neglect from PO's, but...   Dave M. Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:53 am:    So a complete rebuild with new fluids, pads, master cylinder, etc on the brakes then! With the starter I meant a nice, juicy one, like a Mean Green. Heater and defroster would be a NECESSITY up here. Can't skimp there. I suppose a Turner H.O. 2.25 and a 4 speed with OD would be perfectly adequate. My biggest problem is finding the starter-truck. 109" 5-doors seem to be pretty rare. I could probably start with an ex-MOD truck and hopefully add the back body later. I'm temped by some nice 88's but I really need to make this truck do some work too so the larger body is preferable. Well, it's a ways off still so maybe something will turn up.   Ron Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 12:56 pm:    humm, If it were me I would look for a rotted out frame one. Designa galvy coil chassis, couple of cheap rangie axles. If you get a SIII all the stuff will bolt over to a D90 bulkhead and they are only 600 through the dealer. No sense in spending the money on the turner H.O. For the price of one of those you can get a really good 200Tdi. One of the locals has a SIII 109 wagon with the ashcroft high ratio series t-case, stock tranny and a 200Tdi. will be done in a about a month. should be interesting. Personally I would have spent the money to get a short shaft R380 or LT77 and an LT230 but that would have blown the budget and since it is on the original frame would have also meant some more complications. But if you get a designa they build it to your specs. Also a 2.25 needs nothing in the way of a starter (7:1 or 8:1 turns real easy and when in tune they start instantly). Unless you are going diesel save the money on the mean green and use it for something else. The SIII heater is not bad. Just get new lines and have it recored and it will keep it plenty warm with the new weather stripping. Most heater output issues are because the cores are junked up and have no flow. And don't rhino line it. its aluminium it won't rust. Get some rubber mats for it and it will be as quiet as rhino lining. Ron   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 02:38 pm:    I agree w/ Ron: Turners are well done but by NO means magical. And, no need for a fancy starter either. Save the money for other stuffs. Are you opposed to a RHD? Every few months TRG gets a vehicle or two in from England... if there's something you want, call him and he'll keep an eye out for ya. Rhino-lining is expensive, but there are some cheaper things out there. It doesn't need it, but it's not bad-looking, and keeps stuff from sliding around as much IMHO. Only point I'll really differ from Ron on is the Designa. I don't have personal experience w/ 'em, but I know of one that was crap... the sidewalls on it were too thin, didn't hold up. I'd suggest, if you're interested in going THAT way, to find a 110 frame to use w/ the cheap Rangie axles the way Ron suggested, then modify it yourself to mount the body to it. But, the parabolics on a regular 109" chasssis would be sweet, IMHO... and less than going w/ the hybrid route. Hybrids only come out cheaper when you have lots of parts lying around already (Ron). -L   Dave M. Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 03:02 pm:    I had said the Rhino-lining for a few reasons. Protection for the floors, and as good sound insulation. It's durable, and stuff won't slide around as much. It's ey popular with the Jeepers and classic Bronco guys so I thought I'd look into it. Thanks for all the info on engine particulars. I do appreciate it. I'm a newbie to this, with very little hands-on knowlege and every little bit counts. I have ammassed quite a file of lists, hints, faq's and collected knowlege from the web. I ordered my DiscoWeb Moab video yesterday to get me jacked about off-roading too! :-) If all goes well ($$$) I'll have my starter truck by the Fall. Most likely an ex-MOD 109. At least that is what it will start out as. ;-)   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 03:23 pm:    Nothing wrong w/ starting w/ an ex-MOD, if you want a 3-door 109".... But if you want a 5-door, then look for a 5-door, IMHO. Is a RHD okay, or do you really want a LHD? -L   Dave M. Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 04:01 pm:    I'm OK with a RHD. And I think I could be OK with a 109 3 door too.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 04:07 pm:    The 3-door would be cheaper, but if you want a 5-door, you want a 5-door. IMHO, email David at TRG, and talk to him about 'em... see what he can find for ya... -L   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 04:50 pm:    How about this one: 67 NADA IIA 109'' LHD 5 Door Safari Wagon rare 6 cylinder 1967 Series IIA 109'' 5 door safari wagon. Mileage unverifiable. Rare 2.6 litre 6 cylinder. Some rust. Door pillars need to be replaced. Needs tires. Runs well. New fuel pump. Being sold as is. Generator converted to alternator. Gray elephant naugahide interior. Original paint worn to the bare aluminum in places. Deluxe hood. Passed Texas inspection. Clear title. Tropical roof. Some holes in front footwell area. Replacement panels included. Fairey hubs. Brand new Fairey overdrive in the box available for additional $1,000. Additional set of rear folding seats available for additional $250. Contact Sam at (210) 979-6800 or smaverick@aol.com Sam Noble. San Antonio, Texas, United States of America - 11 March 2002 OR: 1967 NADA 109 Safari Station Wagon 1967 NADA 109 Safari Station Wagon. Unrestored original. 6 cylinder petrol. Vehicle has 46,000 original miles. Grey elephant hide interior (front seats torn), no tears in headliner, Smith heater, 4 speed, 8,000 lb ramsey winch, always garaged. Body and frame are solid. 109 looks great and would take very little to get road worthy. Call or email, possible trades. 580-233-5602. dominguy1@aol.com Angel Dominguez. Enid, Oklahoma, United States of America - 4 March 2002 Both found on LRX.com Best regards, Jaime   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 05:12 pm:    Not sure if my other post on SIIIs showed up: 1974 Right Hand Drive 109 5 door station wagon. The engine is a 2.25 liter that has approx 3,000 miles on it. The transmission has approx 2,000 miiles. This is a project truck that comes with a new galvanised frame. It has Fariy Hubs, a Fairy Overdrive, new springs, and a Salisbury rear axle. Everything a 109 needs. I do have new heavy duty Brown Church Roof Racks that were on the truck but they would be an added cost. Please E-mail all questions to TigerRover109@cs.com Scott McKenzie. Asheville, North Carolina, United States of America - 4 March Series III 5-Door SW Strong running, well cared for LHD Rover. Fresh cooling and brake systems, and recent head rebuild converted to unleaded. Many new parts, accessories galore, and lots of spares. Roof Rack, Tropical Roof, Salisbury axle, 2 spare Tyres, Hi-Lift Jack, CB, Hellas, Rear work light, Superwinch X-9 and mounting plate (not yet installed), and more. (It's the Limestone Rover in photo) Motivated seller, price is negotiable. Contact me for details or check out this website: http://www.okoffroad.com/okrovers/members-tomsteinauer.htm Call 402-580-1039 evenings or write email. Tom Steinauer. Elmwood, Nebraska, United States of America - 12 March 2002 Good luck on your project. Also found on LRX.Com Regards, Jaime   David Gage (Davidg) Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 06:33 pm:    Hey, I know Scotts truck, I built the engine. I was chasing him down I85 to Atlanta doing 65+ (not to toot my own horn)This truck has alot of potential.... David   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 08:18 pm:    Hmmm..... Scott's is the one that is the one that I would favor, and not just because of David's handiwork... lol.... Scott's has a 2.25.... the others, well, at least the first two, have the 6-cyl engine. It's a SMOOTH engine, but it's the devil to find parts for. IMHO.... -L   Ron Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 09:26 pm:    Humm, Who had the bum designa chassis? I have seen maybe 6 and they are were fine. Mine is what I am told was a prototype 110 chassis and everything lines up with no faults. It also has HD frame rails but I believe stock for designas is 3mm to begin with so that is 50% stronger than stock. Can't argue with that. The only GOOD thing about the 6 cylinder is that is it further back and you get more clearance in the bulkhead, soooooooo if you want to put in a TDi/V8 or whatever you are set. The power gain is marginal on the euro spec 6s but the NADA 6 is a faster engine though it is a car type engine so it is mainly in the upper revs where it makes its juice. You really need to know what you are doing with the 6 while a 2.25 will survive neglect abuse ignorance and go on just fine. Ron PS a 110 frame is a BAD way to start a 109 rebuild. while the end result will be nice it means LOTS and LOTS of high dollar parts are needed. rad, tank, DSs, front end etc etc etc. A designa 109 chassis all you need is some rangie axles/suspension, a brake MC and thats it. The rest bolts up.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 10:02 pm:    Someone who was by the shop. (I don't remember the name, but I'll inquire if ya want). It may very well have been a one-off problem.... as I said, I don't have personal experience w/ 'em, but I've liked Marslands, tho'.... Okay okay, I'll concur about needing an assortment of 110 bits to get a 109" to work on a 110 frame. I reckon I was skipping the means, and lookin' at the nice end result when it's done well. But, get a 109" chassis and parabolics, then you already have all that you need w/ the 109, if you want to go the budget route. -L   Ron Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 10:24 pm:    Hi Leslie, I would be interested to know who/what just out of curiosity. My thought behind the designa chassis was that you could go coil and get disc brakes, stronger axles, 3.54 gears etc etc and all for what a leaf chassis, rebuild costs on the series axles, and parabolics would cost. I like my marsland chassis too but they do not make coil conversion chassis. Having done the stock and the modified I can tell you that so long as you do not go tooooo modified the modified route leads to more satisfaction and useablity. My problem is that I am trying to do something WAY custom on a CB budget. Its going great, its just not happening too quickly I agree building on a 110 chassis would yeild a great product but the costs are killer. 110 stuff very rarely falls out of trees like series and rangie stuff does. Ron   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:04 pm:    Here's what I think's funny.... Here are all of these guys with 180hp Rover V8s w/ 3.54 diffs, and they swap them for 4.11 gears so they can run 235/85R16 tires. The Series already has 4.7 diffs, and is running 7.5x16, same size tire almost... And, the 2.25 has even less horsepower than the V8... Yeah, coils would be the choice over leaf springs, but I've seen plain leafs on a Series do just fine. Discs, yeah, better than drums, but do the drums right and they're good too. Upgraded Series axles are available too. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking a 109" coil-over at all, but I don't think that it'd be SO much better than a regular, well-done 109". And, there's something to be said for a nice original, too.... -L PS: I'll see if I can find out who....   Ron Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 02:05 am:    Okey doke Leslie, The one thing to remember is that a series is OVER geared based on tranny/t-case where as a disco auto is UNDER geared. Idealy you would want something like 4.1s or 3.8s with a stock series but 3.54s are not terrible and do make it driveable on the street. If you have your heart set on 4.7s the series diffs will just bolt into 10 spline rangie axles. Its all what you are after. Good luck with the dream rover! As I think this discussion has illuminated you have to first figure out exactly what you are dreaming of. Ron   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 09:11 am:    Leslie and Ron, ECR has a comparison of a Series with leafs, parabolics, and a coil set-up. Pretty interesting to see the numbers and the suspension flex. Check out http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Parabolics.html The parabolics performed very close to a coil set-up. Regards, Jaime   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 10:17 am:    LOL.... I've been using ECR's page as a reference for, oh, about 6 years now..... Ron's right: by doing a full frame swap to a Designa, you get to use coil-suspension, disc brakes, and streetable diffs right off the bat. But, as you pointed out, parabolics aren't bad at all, drums can work well, the lower gearing is better off-road... It all depends on what you want.... -L   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 10:28 am:    Leslie, Yeah, kinda thought that would be the case, yet, you never know. Having rear drums on my 109, I totally agree that drums properly adjusted can work well. Lets face it, the NAS 110 was set up with rear drums so they can't be all that bad. Regards, Jaime   Tom P. Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 12:00 pm:    I like this thread. I'm planning my base on a basic, 2-door 109 in the cleanest, original condition possible. I know there are downsides to various original equipment (2.25L engine, Springs...), but there is a lot of good to be said of these components. There are also downsides to the potential mods as well. I'd rather start out stock, otherwise I wouldn't truely appreciate any mods I do make. Right now, a basic 109 would get a roll cage and forward facing rear bench. Then inertia sholder belts all around. I haven't decided on a roll bar, or a full cage to replace the hoop set. That'll keep me running for a while... Tom P. 96 Disco   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 12:40 pm:    Tom, FYI.... David at TRG is now officially a distributor for Safety Devices... he can get you the Series rollbars and cages..... http://www.safetydevices.co.uk/4x4/defender8.html -L   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 12:52 pm:    Tom P., Have you looked at the ex-MOD Series on Skytop Rover site?? www.skytoprover.com There are usually a few 3 door 109s for sale in various price ranges. We're thinking about getting one for our farm in PA as he has a '73 SIII 109 3door canvas top for $4250. That is a hard price to beat for decent 109. Regards, Jaime   Dave M. Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 01:09 pm:    This has been great! This was exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to start with this topic. I’ve got lot’s of questions to answer for myself and figuring out exactly the truck I want is the biggest. I thought I wanted a 109 5-door, but more and more I’m thinking a 109 3-door would be better. Thanks for the LRX postings. I spend a lot of time searching around that BB and will most likely find “my” truck there when the time comes. I too use ECR’s pages as a dream reference! Their write-ups on parabolics is what convinced me I didn’t *need* a coil conversion. Parabolics fit a lot better with my budget. Thanks again.   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 01:33 pm:    Dave, Glad it was helpful for you. It was a big decision for us to go from a 95D90SW to a 67 5-door 109, yet, it really has worked out very well for our use especially camping with the 2 dogs. Good luck and let me know if there is anything particular you might want to know about living with a 109, albeit modified, yet still a 109. Regards, Jaime   Tom P. Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 01:52 pm:    > '73 SIII 109 3door canvas top for $4250. That > is a hard price to beat for decent 109. Depends what you call decent, plus the $5k+ you may put into some MoD trucks. Tom P.   Dave M. Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:07 pm:    Now here's a dumb question... say I do a 3 door hardtop 109, perhaps built from an ex-MOD truck. Now I put a front facing rear bench seat in with suitable seatbelts and ISOFIX-like tether points that allows me to safely mount a baby seat. (my wife has requested this) How do you get into the backseat? With the bulkhead wall behind the front seat, I can't picture a folding system.. Do you have to go in from the back? Thanks again. PS. How long should it take to get my DiscoWeb Moab video? I'm really looking forward to it. (ordered 3/14)   Ron Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:21 pm:    In through the rear door, step over the seat sit down buckle up off you go. A forward facing rear seat is the only way I would take small kids in a series. Don't go by the coil prices on ECRs webpage. Rangie 10spline axles complete with a frame/radius arms/trailing arms/brakes/ springs/shocks can be had for under 1000 a pair. A coil frame is the same price as a leaf frame. Also having ridden in both coil is superior to parabolics. There are downsides to coil but they are few. Of course the main downside is you have to be commited to a frame over restoration! Ron   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:28 pm:    Tom P., This is to what I was referring: 1973 Series III RHD 12 Volt Ex-Military 109" Three-Door Soft Top This is another 1973 Rover, California eligible, fitted with a very strong, rebuilt (1990) 2.25 liter gas engine, a bit of rust on the kick panels, otherwise the bulkhead is in very good condition, very good, solid chassis, 71K original miles, so so canvas top, bodywork is the strange thing: it has small, little door dings all over. Looks like it spent its life in the parking lot of a Wal-Mart. If you are not very concerned about the cosmetics of a Rover, but want something that is solid, and runs well (are you thinking off-road rig?), this is the one you want, and you cannot beat the price Dave, Can't answer your question, however, there are some good pics of the Rovers for sale on skytop's web page. It might give you an idea. Regards, Jaime   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 11:17 pm:    Yeah... I, too, want a forward-facing seat out of the back of a Defender for the back of my 88, but it's a bit problematic... you really do about have to come in from the back then clamber over. Or, in this case, reach over from behind and buckle up the car seat. How radical would you want to go? You 'could'...... you could remove the bulkhead. You'd have to get some tubing and create some bracing to account for the loss of stability, but it'd work... If you're good at fabricating, you could manage to make it removable... you could have it in there when the kids aren't along, then pull it out to open it up, like a D90.... Just a thought.... -L   Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 08:40 am:    After looking around, I am pretty sure I will be putting in a 3rd party J**p bench in the rear of my 88. They can be had new for about $150~$175 with brackets. You can get the fixed type, or the folding type. They will fit. With used D90 forward facing rear benches going for $400+, that just seems crazy. It's just one more thing for the shopping list. As soon as I can turn Cameron's car seat around (he's still facing backwards), I'll get serious about this. It will be a bit of a pain to manage at times, but it will be nice to throw everyone in the 88 and head out to the hills, etc. Jeff   Tad Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 06:10 pm:    If you want a project 109 I gots one for ya! '67 IIA Body and interior are complete. Needs frame and engine. $1250. E me if you want info. Have Some Fun! Tad PS I'll still stick with my 88!