| Author | Message | ||
     Ethan Makarowski (Ethan) New Member Username: Ethan Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2003 |
I was wondering if anyone knew of the dimensions and overall weight (with ancillaries) of the 2.25 petrol. I am looking into what I can fit into that engine bay! Thanks... EM | ||
| Ike Goss (Leafsprung) New Member Username: Leafsprung Post Number: 25 Registered: 03-2003 |
you arent restricted to the original weight or dimensions. . . . -Regards -Ike Goss | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2125 Registered: 02-2002 |
Ethan, You can even fit a V8 in there if you really want to.... I've seen Rover V8s in Series Rovers that came out looking original. You wouldn't HAVE to stick with a Rover engine if you didn't want to... What are you looking for? Just something with more pep, or are you wanting somthing really radical? -L | ||
| Ethan Makarowski (Ethan) New Member Username: Ethan Post Number: 4 Registered: 04-2003 |
Leslie, Ever since I fell into the world of land rovers eight or so years ago, I dreamed of building a rather unusual and unique hybrid. Instead, I chose the route of experiencing land rovers as they were built to be... simple, rugged, and easy to maintain. So, my first rover was a '67 SIIa 88 restored stock (for the most part) from the ground up. I can't say enough good things about the final result. It is a beautiful truck. Fortunately, my series can now be used more exclusively for off-roading and having fun with the very recent edition of a '94 Disco, which will buzz me at highway speeds and tow the IIa long distances. I have experience with the 2.25 petrol and now the 3.9L rover V8. However, I have always been obsessed with diesel engines... their reliability (depending on manufac!), ECONOMY, and overall off-road capability. I would start with a designa coil chassis and use the driveline from a disco or rangie donor. I've looked over and researched many diesel options, everything from the LR diesels to nissan and mercedes that have been done. However, years back, I was in contact with someone in the land rover community that had looked into fitting a rather unusual diesel into their series... a Caterpillar industrial diesel. THIS was the engine that I was looking for. There's just something about lifting the bonnet of a series rig and having a glossy yellow Cat engine smiling at you! The idea of having the rest of the land rover rot away and turn to dust before the engine would even break in seems very appealing. I realize that this is not any kind of straight forward conversion, but it has been stated before that anything can be done with money and the right state of mind - and I believe it. Comparing the engine that I've researched to the new raved about IH 2.8L Powerstroke, it rivals the powerstrokes performance at about half the price, plus the legendary reliablity and performance of Caterpillar engines. I'll have to dig up his info and try to contact him to see how he made out. This project is not a reality at the moment, due to the need of a mucher thicker wallet and more research, but I'll see what happens in a couple years when I have the time, money, and space to take on a project like this. There are still many obstacles to overcome (I'm probably missing something very obvious that is preventing me from even considering this conversion). I've hestitated for a long time opening this idea to the land rover community. I'm sure it will get all kinds of skepticism. But until then, I can dream, can't I? Everyone has their "dream" Land Rover, why can't I?! Anyway, I apologize for the length of this post... just wanted to see what you thought of this crazy idea. Until then, I'll have fun with my two existing Land Rovers. Let me know what you think... Regards, Ethan Makarowski ewmakaro@hotmail.com 1967 SIIa SWB 1994 Discovery | ||
| Ike Goss (Leafsprung) New Member Username: Leafsprung Post Number: 35 Registered: 03-2003 |
Which CAT diesel is it? The only one I know thats small enough is the perkins derived naturally aspirated 4 cyl producing 60 hp. Its about 4K new. Is there another small diesel CAT makes? Be aware some of the "CAT" engines are perkins lumps with yellow paint . . . Look at the cummins 6AT, 4BT, MWM Sprint and others. Dont use a nice engine with a crappy coiler drivetrain. I cant think of a better way to ruin an otherwise neat project. -Regards -Ike Goss | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Senior Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2130 Registered: 02-2002 |
There are plenty of diesels out there that you can go with, look at the ones that Ike listed; but I have to admit, I know not of a suitable CAT motor.... but, I guess I should admit to having never looked, either... Of course, you can always break out some CAT-yellow engine paint and paint whatever Nissan or other diesel you find.....  Seriously, though... As far as the usuals, a 200Tdi will bolt up to the stock Series driveline, whereas with a 300 you'll have to have an adapter... the 2.8 is an interesting idea, and I'd lean that way if funding permitted. I take it, though, that you didn't do the restoration yourself? Just a guess, given your initial question.... One thing that comes to mind: I usually don't advocate alternate engines to non-mechanics, unless they plan to learn to work on it themselves over time. It's one thing when you pull up to a garage with a vehicle that's stock, they can handle that, but when it has a different engine in it, they don't know what might be going on.... you'd have to know enough about it to communicate with the shop doing your work what they need to know to properly diagnose anything. If you do it yourself, though, then you know what you are dealing with on the way in.... I don't think there's anything overly wrong with your plan, though... I'd suggest considering parabolics instead of going with coils just because it'd be simpler to do on your existing vehicle... FWIW.... -L | ||
| Ethan Makarowski (Ethan) New Member Username: Ethan Post Number: 5 Registered: 04-2003 |
I did in fact do every aspect of the restoration myelf, including completely rebuilding the 2.25. I am very familiar with these vehicles and do all work myself (although I've been lucky so far with no major faults... knock on wood!). I understand the concern for this type of engine. I've understood for years that it would be a much easier route to install a 2.5, 200, or 300 tdi. BUT, even a used 300 tdi (as hard as they are to find here in the states) is comparable in price to a brand new Cat. I've looked into BritRest, who are Canadian distributors of tdi's and 2.8's for these conversions. The reman/imported 300 tdi's available exceed this Cat in price. The easiest way to go would be the 2.5, but this has barely more uuumph than the 2.25 petrol. At one point, I was also seriously considering the Nissan SD33 Turbo, but I came to the conclusion that parts are becoming harder to find and maintenance on an affordable, older, higher mileage engine would be costly. The cost of a new SD33 from Jescoweb was quoted to be $6850 with exchange. Don't get me wrong, a 300 tdi in a series would be unbelievable, and a 2.8 would be even better, if anyone could afford it (not me!). However, I am looking for something a little more unique, an experiment of sorts. I'm sure you think that's quite a gamble, and it is I guess, but I think the outcome would be pretty awesome. There is also quite a range of opinion on Rover Diesels, I know a lot of people are happy with their 300 tdi converted trucks and some that despise them. I understand the views from both sides. I recently (4/7/03) posted a question regarding diesel engine options for my trucks on the RN series board. I got a couple comments from people, inc. Ike... No such thing as a reliable, affordable rover diesel. Stick with gas or convert to a non rover diesel. None of the rover diesels are economical to fit. They are so expensive initially that you will have to drive several hundred thousand miles before you ever start to see savings. Problem is they generally dont last long enough to ever save any money. Unless you like hard cold starts, poor acceleration, and lots of noise, its probably not for you. Keep an eye on the South African Mailing list, LRO help columns and so on. You see a lot of folks who drive these motors every day complaining about recurring faults. Any part you would have to special order as well, nobody really stocks parts for these engines in the US. Unless you gotta have diesel, gas motors are just a better way to go. -Regards -Ike Goss (I DRIVE A DIESEL ROVER EVERY DAY) This always seems to be a hot topic. And thanks, Ike, and the others, for input on that post. Ike is right, a few years back Cat introduced its compact 3000 family, derived from perkins. The person who I mentioned earlier, when Cat first introduced this line, was especially interested in the 3034 model, naturally aspirated, putting out 155 lb/ft at 1400 rpm and a max of 63 bhp. This engine is very comparable in size to the stock 2.25. The engines I've been looking into are the 3044CT and 3054E turbocharged or Air-to-Air Aftercooled , roughly weighing the same as the 2.25 and rated between 80 and 140 bhp and between 190 to 370 lb/ft at 1400 rpm, depending on model. Anyway, I just thought that this would be a neat and unusual project and as appealing as a 300 tdi job would be, for that same price, I would have something unique among land rovers with increased performance (maybe!). This project would be something that I would do so I would know the ins and outs pretty well. I learned A LOT from my first rover rebuild and am eager to start another project. Anyway, thanks again for the comments... I hope there's more on the way! These bulletin boards are quite the source for information. They become addictive! Regards, Ethan Makarowski PS: I see where you're coming from about the love affair with leafsprings. I have Rocky Mtn's (3 leaf rears, 2 front) on my SWB and absolutely love them! I guess its something to consider! Thanks | ||
| Ike Goss (Leafsprung) New Member Username: Leafsprung Post Number: 36 Registered: 03-2003 |
My point was not specificly aimed at the springs themselves (effective coilsprung suspensions are possible however expensive) But rather the coilsprung drivetrain. The manual transmissions are pretty weak and not suitable for a strong diesel. The LT230 is a good transfercase. The axles are quite poor in stock form and upgrades are expensive. . . Better off to go with a American transmission and american or series axles (salsbury or ENV). I looked at the spec sheets on the 30xx series CAT diesels. One issue that you are going to have with this CAT motor is that theres not an automotive version of the engine. That means its going to rattle the bolts out of a series truck and more than likely the filings out of your head as well. Being a four cylinder does not add to its inheirent smoothness. The other drawback to these motors is that they are really slow reving. They are pretty much done at 2500 RPMs. Most automotive/industrial diesels will spin 3800-4200 giving much better versitility. I would say that CAT motor would not be a wise swap . . . and diesels arent economical either. -Regards -Ike Goss | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 317 Registered: 04-2001 |
"if it cannot clear an obtacle, the rest might as well pack up and go home!" LOL so long as you don't frag the steering box Ron | ||
| Ike Goss (Leafsprung) New Member Username: Leafsprung Post Number: 37 Registered: 03-2003 |
Im thinking aboiut them . . . How to pay for it as well -Ike | ||
| Ethan Makarowski (Ethan) New Member Username: Ethan Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2003 |
Ike, where can I source a new 6AT or 4BT? What kind of price am I looking at? I'm under the impression that these engines are commonly used in delivery trucks, etc. so they should be fairly easy to obtain. Thanks, EM | ||
| Ike Goss (Leafsprung) New Member Username: Leafsprung Post Number: 39 Registered: 03-2003 |
Ethan, There are lots of different sources for new and remanned cummins. Peak Sales in TX is one and there are others all over the country. New motors are going to be spendy obviously. Probably around 4-5K. I donno many diesels that are cheaper than that new. . . Diesel is an expensive way to power a truck. -REgards -Ike Goss | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 321 Registered: 04-2001 |
The cat motors are really perkins, cat bought perkins and rebadged the motors, why not just use a perkins and paint it yellow. The mazda perkins look kinda cool. Ron | ||
| Peter J Blatt (Peteb) Member Username: Peteb Post Number: 136 Registered: 10-2002 |
Have you thought about a 2.5 td from a peugeot! those engines are very long lasting and are easy to come by here in the usa i just picked one up with 42k miles on it! running perfect! out of a 505 td, somewhere near 100 hp and much more torque, plus if you stay with a stock series gearbox, you can get the adapter easially, i'm told. | ||
| Alan Greening (Alan_g) New Member Username: Alan_g Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2003 |
All of the four cylinder Land Rover engines share very similar external dimensions andweights, even the TD5 is a similar size. I have personally a 2.8 TD Isuzu and a 3.0 Ford V6 under the bonnet of a series vehicle without any space or weight problems. Alan "It didn't look that deep from here" |
