| Author | Message | ||
     Jeffrey DelVecchio (Jeffreydv) Member Username: Jeffreydv Post Number: 50 Registered: 01-2003 |
I just looked at a 69 Series IIA 88" with a completely rusted out frame. There is no way to salvage this frame. The body is pretty decent. Minor dings and some rust here and there. The seats all look new and the guy has a new exhaust and new rear springs sitting in the back of it. He claims he used to drive it all of the time until he put it on a lift to install the springs and saw how bad the frame was. Right now, he is asking $1000 for it but I wouldnt be surprised if he takes a lot less if it doesnt sell. Any ideas as to what it might be worth? Thanks, Jeff NJ | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2554 Registered: 02-2002 |
If, a) if the engine / transmission / transfer-case / axles are all very sound, that it runs well b) if the body is mostly straight, unmolested, c) if the bulkhead and breakfast are in great shape, without a lot of rust there (note: I'd expect the bulkhead of a Rover with a rusty chassis to also be rusty) then it'd be worth the $1k as parts alone, but also as a truck, if.... d) if, if you have the space, the time, the patience, or the bankroll to make up the difference.... A new chassis is gonna be in the ballpark of ~$1700 plus shipping, plus the $1000 for the Rover, So you're in for $2700 before you begin to swap. If you do all the labor, then you're ahead, but, while sou're doing the swap you're gonna find over another $2000 of bits that need to be replaced "while you're at it"...(I'm being dead-serious, not kidding or exaggerating in the slightest). That's putting you at almost in $5k to have a driving Rover, doing it yourself. I know where decent drivers are sitting right now for $4k. So..... yes, it's worth it, but, it's going to be a big project. Now, a Series is a great vehicle to work on, it'd be hard to find a simpler vehicle for rebuilding. It's an ideal learning platform, if, you've got an experienced friend to use as a support.... Realize, this'll be a big part of your recreational life for the next couple of years, getting this thing back on the road. Do you really want to commit to that? -L (a Rover addict) | ||
| Jeffrey DelVecchio (Jeffreydv) Member Username: Jeffreydv Post Number: 51 Registered: 01-2003 |
Leslie, Thanks for the info / advice. Currently I own a 1989 RRC and a 1994 Disco so I am a bit familiar with Land Rovers. I am a mechanic by trade so I am not too worried about doing the work myself. The hardest part is convincing my wife  Jeff | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 499 Registered: 04-2001 |
You are in an area with a lot of series help available. www.roversclub.com The club has been looking to do a quick frame swap project so if it runs and drives and the bulkhead is not that bad it would be interesting to see if a quick frame swap would be possible, assuming you buy a new frame, brake lines, springs etc, for a swap. Put it up on jack stands, pull the axles, build up a roller with the new frame, old axles and drivetrain, pull the body as two parts, slap it all back together, and sort it out as you drive it. How much space is in your garage? How good is the bulkhead? Ron | ||
| Alex Scolnik (Alex_scolnik) New Member Username: Alex_scolnik Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2003 |
Jeff, is this rover in Hackensack at a guy's door shop? I went to see it last week. I offered him $500. To me, it looked like the bulkhead was also totally gone. I also got a little suspiciousthat he's had it sitting for 3 years before deciding to sell--the whole time I was there he kept trying to impress me with how rich he is it seems like he should have just had the frame changed to me. Anyway, glad to see he cut the asking price by 1,000--it was 2 when I went to see it. Good luck, Alex | ||
| micky dee (Kincangokicker) Member Username: Kincangokicker Post Number: 86 Registered: 06-2003 |
offer the guy 300.00 bucks and if he says no than walk away and forget about it. find an other in running condition. on the road and certified as mentioned above it will cost a lot. on the other hand there are a lot of parts there and if you do find another driving series the parts will retro fit. anyway i had accumulated over twenty series rovers from around town over the years. most of them were junk. but the price was right. we bought a completly rotten series three for 300.00 bucks and welded the frame the best we could while leaving the body on it and ended up driving it for three years including offroading. a couple of other series two's we bought from a junk yard.... one broke in half as we towed it home on the tow bar. and for the others they sat in the feild untill parts were needed. transmisions were pulled for our dormobile, diffs were used on the 109's , half shafts, two engine swaps, prop shafts went on the dormobile. and in slow times we would take apart and sand blast and re paint the parts, put in storage untill needed. we sold a few safari tops. so i guess it paid for its self in the long run. the list goes on. but try ti get it as cheep as possible restore it or use it for parts for the next one. | ||
| Jeffrey DelVecchio (Jeffreydv) Member Username: Jeffreydv Post Number: 52 Registered: 01-2003 |
Thank you for all of your responses. I think I am going to wait and see if he calls me. If he does, I will make him an offer around $500. Otherwise, I will just keep looking. I would like to find one that is LHD and driveable in perhaps the $4000 range. Thanks again, Jeff | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2561 Registered: 02-2002 |
I know of several drivable ones in the $4k range, but they're RHD. To be honest, a Series Rover is easier to work on when it's RHD. And, it's cool to be different.... let your dog sit in the passenger seat as you drive around, and people will do a double-take.... http://www.thatchedroofgarage.com Check with David, he's got some that aren't on the website yet, might meet your needs.... -L | ||
| Jay Hobbs (Jayxd) Member Username: Jayxd Post Number: 179 Registered: 03-2002 |
Leslie, Why are RHD Series vehicles easier to work on? I know I've talked to several people with LHD models that were just converted from RHD so is that the reason - having to deal with what someone else did, or is there another. Jay | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2563 Registered: 02-2002 |
You have to pull the wing to get to the clutch master on a LHD, on a RHD it's more accessible. It's not a big deal, it's easy enough to remove, but it's still a step more than the RHD ones have. Also, the footwell on the RH side is bigger than the LH side. The 4x4 knob, the hi-lo lever, they're on the RH side of the console, so you don't have to reach as far. A shin-roaster heater doesn't roast your shin as bad in a RHD, mostly in a LHD instead. Some bits are sided, and RHD bits are more available than LHD bits. For example, the exhaust exits on the LHD on the opposite side of the vehicle compared to the RHD. However, most LHD vehicles have RHD exhausts now. (It's not a big deal at all, doesn't change working on it, it just means that you'll smog the folks on the curb.) These things were designed to be easy-enough to put to RHD or LHD, true, but they really are RHD vehicles. Some people have a stigma about wanting a LHD, and that's fine... there are LHD vehicles out there to be had. My SIII is a US-spec one, so it's LHD. I don't want a RHD so bad that I'm converting mine over or going to sell it to get a RHD instead, but, if I had a RHD I'd leave it as such instead of switching it. (It'd be a lot more work changing a SIII over a SIIa, since the gauges have to move, the dash trim is backwards, etc.) Try driving a RHD for a bit, and see if it really bothers you or not. If it does, then look for a LHD. I'd expect, though, that you'll not mind a RHD if you give it enough of a chance. IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, yada yada yada..... -L | ||
| Alex Scolnik (Alex_scolnik) New Member Username: Alex_scolnik Post Number: 3 Registered: 09-2003 |
Leslie -- Where are these driveable RHD rovers in the 4k range.? I'm looking for a medium sized project for this winter. I went to the Thatched Roof Garage website, but would prefer one that's a little closer to me (New York City area). I've been watching LRX.com, Ebay, Rovers North and Atlantic British, and have gone to see a few, but all the owners seem to want too much for them (at least that's what I think). Thanks, Alex | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2566 Registered: 02-2002 |
They're at TRG, but they've just arrived, and aren't yet on the website yet. Call or email David, and he'll be more than willing to describe them, their good points and their faults. ($4k Rovers aren't perfect, but, they're decent...) He's taken pics and mailed them, emailed digital pics, made videos before and mailed the tapes, but usually people drive in, from all over the country. After talking with him, consider a trip down to here.... it's a pretty time of year to drive I-81.... -L | ||
| Art Bitterman (Aardvark) Member Username: Aardvark Post Number: 71 Registered: 05-2003 |
No prblems driving a RHD here Stateide-been doing it for 10 years now!. Only problems are drive up windows (have been known to drive through in reverse!) and toll booths (none here in Georgia) As Leslie said, clutch and brake masters are easier to get at, as also the controls. Great when driving in the mountains; glance down out the side window and you can see EXACTLY where the edge of the road is! Art 1960 SII, RHD, "Aardvark" | ||
| Alex Scolnik (Alex_scolnik) New Member Username: Alex_scolnik Post Number: 4 Registered: 09-2003 |
Leslie, I'll give him a call, and I'm sure it's beautiful down there, but I just don't have the time (or patience--I don't like long car trips) to go all the way down to Tennessee. Does anyone have any opions on what might be reasonable for this one?: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2438286228&categor y=6296 I have no idea what the frame and bulkhead are like, but am planning on going to see it on Wednesday. Does anyone see anything in the photos that might be problematic? It looks to me like the radiator pannel might be starting to rust a bit and there seems to be a lot of scaly surface rust underneath... Alex | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 530 Registered: 04-2001 |
Hard to say without poking the chassis. Looks like a good frame swap canidate (runs not too rusty etc.) do the frame, brakes, and springs and then restore as you drive. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2568 Registered: 02-2002 |
The bulkhead's rotten at the lower door hinges. The breakfast looks like it's getting pretty far gone where the apron panel meets it. The sides of the main chassis rails have little paint left, I'd expect that if you whacked the outriggers with a hammer you'll get penetration. I think, in addition to the chassis/springs/brakes, you'll need the bulkhead and breakfast repaired or replaced. The aluminum bits look straight and unmolested, it looks complete, which is important if wanting to really restore it, you won't have to hunt down odd bits to transfer over. Needs some new seat cushions, not a big deal. I like the rear lift-hatch, I wish I had one. Oh, Alex, David can load one onto a shipper's trailer, and have it delivered to you, if you don't have time for a road-trip.... -L | ||
| Alex Scolnik (Alex_scolnik) New Member Username: Alex_scolnik Post Number: 5 Registered: 09-2003 |
I'm going to go see it tomorrow, but it is being sold by a dealer who seems to be in a real big rush to get rid of it which has me kind of suspicious... Leslie, what do you mean by the breakfast? I really appreciate all your help. I already learned a ton from your responses. When I went back to look at the pictures I could start to see what you were talking about and looking for which I think should help a lot in the future. I've read the section on the LR-FAQ about what to look for but is there anything you specifically make a point of doing/trying on the test drive besides trying out all the gears and electrics, etc. I'll call David, but I'm a little nervous about buying a car sight unseen. I've heard some horror stories about Ebay purchases that went bad, and at this point can't afford to loose any money on the deal--I would rather put it into the truck. What I'm looking for is a project for this winter that isn't too huge--I have a MGB that I've done some work too, but nothing major and this would be my first real restoration/rehab. Thanks again! Alex | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2574 Registered: 02-2002 |
Alex, the breakfast is the quaint Brit term for the radiator support panel... it's the piece of steel at the front of the vehicle to which the grill is attached (and the radiator is also attached, along with the edges of the wings, er, fenders). And the headlights, if you're talking about a Series II or a Series I, or most Series IIa Rovers (but not late IIa or Series III). If you look at the earlier ones, some people thought that the grill and headlights looked like bacon and eggs... hence the name, supposedly. I wholly encourage anyone to see any vehicle in person prior to purchase. With that said, David is REALLY good about trying to be completely thorough in descibing both the strengths AND the weaknesses of a vehicle. He realizes that it's far better to not sell a vehicle to someone if it's not the right vehicle for the right person... some rovers just shouldn't go to some people... kinda like horses, some are really easy to get along with, and others are tempermental, and it's important to make sure less-experienced riders don't get on a troublesome horse, er, Rover... He's honest about Rovers, and their, um, "peculiarities"... Like, he might say, "it's a sound chassis for now, it has been patched, but, it'll probably need replacement after a few years" or maybe "it's mechanically solid, but it's really cosmetically challenged, having been brush-painted a dozen times or so...." Regardless..... Good luck. I hope you find the right Series for you. -L | ||
| Alex Scolnik (Alex_scolnik) New Member Username: Alex_scolnik Post Number: 6 Registered: 09-2003 |
I saw it today and Leslie, you were totally right about the chasis--it looked a lot like swiss cheese. The bulkhead was also quited rusted at the lower hinges, and there were some rust holes at the front of the footwells up against the transmission cover. It did start right up, but there were absolutely no brakes. I'm talking touch the brake pedal and it drops to the floor. The sales manager said he thought the lines had rotted out and there was no fluid left. The panels were all straight, and the rear tub looked surprisingly good. All in all they said $2,500 and I said no thank you. Although it looks like it will go for more than that on Ebay I can't see paying that for a car that has no brakes, bad frame and bulkhead. I'm just curious, what do you guys think would have been a reasonable offer? Alex The search continues... | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2579 Registered: 02-2002 |
$500 would've been reasonable. Maybe $1000, if you just had to have one, had the disposable income. And factoring in that it had a lift-gate. $2500, well, you'd have a title, and a lift-gate, and some body bits, drivetrain.... but that'd be it.... I dunno, maybe I'm just a miser. I've seen liftgates go for over $1000. But, I suppose it's a case of the sum of the parts being greater than what the sale-value of the vehicle is... -L | ||
| Alex Scolnik (Alex_scolnik) New Member Username: Alex_scolnik Post Number: 7 Registered: 09-2003 |
I thought $500 would have been a very fair price for it so I'm glad you agree. I had no idea the liftgates were so rare. So far 2 of the cars that I've looked at have had them! Alex | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2580 Registered: 02-2002 |
Well, I wouldn't say "rare". It's just that, for awhile, all the good ones were in use/not available, and the only ones that were found to be had were trashy. They make it a little easier to put on and pull off a hard-top. Otherwise, go with a back door if you leave it on most of the time, or just a tailgate if you don't. A lot of people find that it's more trouble, though, and either stay soft-top, or, stay hard-top, so the gate is really moot. If you lurk long enough, you can find 'em, if you really want 'em, but, you can live a long happy life w/o one...... -L | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 126 Registered: 05-2003 |
Leslie's second post of the thread is, well, learn it, live it, love it. And he didn't even get into rewiring, painting, rebuilding transmissions & etc. | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2582 Registered: 02-2002 |
True, Eric, which is what I'm in the middle of doing now myself.... well, I'm not rebuilding the transmission, I kept it and the engine together and just set them into the new chassis, but, parabolics on the axles under the chassis, new wiring, new brake-lines, fresh paint... it'll hopefully turn out to be a decent Rover, eventually.... -L | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 127 Registered: 05-2003 |
"Realize, this'll be a big part of your recreational life for the next couple of years, getting this thing back on the road. Do you really want to commit to that? " IMO, this was the most important part. I.E. the majority of weekends and lots of week nights. | ||
| Alex Scolnik (Alex_scolnik) New Member Username: Alex_scolnik Post Number: 8 Registered: 09-2003 |
That's actually what I'm looking for! Only hopefully it wont take a couple of years! Alex | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 132 Registered: 05-2003 |
Ah yes, "hopefully". After all the time and treasure I have lavished on my '62 88", "hopefully" is no longer a part of my vocabulary. Well, it is, but not in regards to restoring vehiles. | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 133 Registered: 05-2003 |
But I do get lots of positive comments and thumbs up from complete strangers. At least kids who were born after 1990 think its a "cool" Land Rover. And they know it's a Rover, not a J#*p. O.K., one kid at a campground. | ||
| Jon Bowers (Jonbowers7) Member Username: Jonbowers7 Post Number: 77 Registered: 07-2002 |
Alex and Jeff, Also check out www.seriesrover.com, "The Series Shed" website. Lots of good info on these cool little rigs!! Jon | ||
| Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leslie Post Number: 2618 Registered: 02-2002 |
I wish Joseph had kept up with it, it had potential to be the best Series Rover reference out there... school just kept him tied up too much, I think.... -L | ||
| Alex Scolnik (Alex_scolnik) New Member Username: Alex_scolnik Post Number: 11 Registered: 09-2003 |
Eric -- there's someone with a D90 in my town that has a sticker on the back that says, "Not a Jeep." Jon -- I've seen that site and there is a ton of information on it. Thanks! Alex | ||
| Glenn Guinto (Glenn) Senior Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 776 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jeffrey DelVecchio and Alex Scolnik, where is this rover at? I work in Hackensack (Main St) and live close by (Rochelle Park). I would love to take a peek at it one of those boring lunch hours. Thanks! Glenn P.S. - Jeff, do you have a shop in New Milford? | ||
| Alex Scolnik (Alex_scolnik) New Member Username: Alex_scolnik Post Number: 12 Registered: 09-2003 |
It's by the heliport. Here is the ad from Hemmings: $ 2,000 1969 Land Rover Series 2A HACK, NJ LAND ROVER: 1969 Series IIA, 88", white hardtop, body good, interior good, engine runs; chassis shot, exhaust brand new, front leafs brand new; electric good, was running till chassis went; good project, great parts truck, $2,000. Mike, 201-440-4422, NJ. | ||
| Glenn Guinto (Glenn) Senior Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 777 Registered: 02-2002 |
Thanks Alex. I looked at it this morning and it really is in bad shape. Just like what Jeffrey says in the first post, the frame is disintegrated. The rust is not that bad in the body panels but I suspect the bulkhead is shot since the door posts are also rotting pretty badly. To answer your question Jeffrey, it is definitely not worth the $1000 asking price. $500 probably is a good price for it but again, it's totally up to you if you want to invest your time and effort to get it to good standards. David Gage from Tatched Roof Garage has a couple of Series 2s under 5K that are probably better buys than this. Good luck! Glenn | ||
| Alex Scolnik (Alex_scolnik) New Member Username: Alex_scolnik Post Number: 13 Registered: 09-2003 |
When I was there, the frame was sagging so badly the doors would barely open, and the interior was a mess. I really didn't like the wood working 101 job on the dash. | ||
| Glenn Guinto (Glenn) Senior Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 778 Registered: 02-2002 |
oh yeah... that too... LOL Glenn |
