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Message |
    
Steven E. Frischling (Sefrischling)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 10:44 pm: | 
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Howdy:
I'm trying to due as much "homework" as I can before I purchase my first Land Rover.
I've been fascinated with the '109 since I was 5 or 6 years old (oddly enough all those years of reading National Geographic, I ended up being a photojournalist). As much as I know a Discovery converted to a 300tdi makes the most sense in terms of cost, comfort and highway road worthiness I'd really love a '109 (or maybe a 110).
I know the 109 is loud, not a really smooth riding vehicle, cold in the winter, and can be broken into in about 15 seconds, so I have a few questions for your Series driving folks:
1) How difficult is it to make a '109 into a somewhat highway worthy car? I can drive 60,000+ miles a year sometimes. While most of this is highway driving, I at times end up driving towards floods, blizzards, severe weather, mud slides, fires, etc etc, so a good reliable 4x4 is needed.
2) What is the cost associated with making the '109 into a 90/110's drive on the highway (which I know is still not the most comfortable in the world).
3) How sluggish is the 2.5 diesel? I know it is a low power engine, but if the engine/trannie is a 5 speed is the highway speed there?
4) Is it difficult to switch the doors to the doors of a 90/110 to get a roll up window and more importantly, a door which has a more secure lock.
5) I know Rover electrical has some problem, so how difficult is it to change the electrical to accommodate three radios (two digital scanners, one 2-way radio, low wattage), laptop, AC inverter for low power items, three electronic camera battery chargers.
6) Convert the inside, primarily the driver/passenger area to a more comfortable, warmer, area since I often end up living in my car. (toddler in the car seat won't know the back seat is not so cozy for 2-3 years, and I hope to be able to get to the back seat by then if I buy the vehicle.
What time and financial commitment should I be prepared to make if I undertake this endeavor?
Is it less expensive to just buy a D90? Or buy a Rangie as a stop gap vehicle for 2 years.
Ups? Downs? Encouragement? I just want a good reliable vehicle I can drive for the next 20 years (I know some photogs in Africa/Australia driving the 2.5 diesels with 750,000 miles)
Thanks!
-Steven |
LR Max
| | Posted on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 12:39 am: |
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Greeting and welcome to the rover world!!! Your questions can be answered two ways, depending on your availible money and time.
The first option, and probably your best option is to buy a 109 that is in very bad shape. Then have the whole truck rebuilt from the ground up using new technology and new equipment to make the truck "perfect" in your eyes. Just to name a few things, you prabably want coil suspension instead of leaf springs. This will improve the ride and off road ability. Second lots of sound proofing can be added to quiet down the cabin. Third, a better engine can be installed. You asked about the 2.5 diesel: Although it is a great off road engine, it will probably be dissapointing on the road. I would suggest using a Robert Davis 3.0 liter 4 cyl. chevy engine (can anybody get a website?). Another great addition to the rover lineup is an Overdrive. This acts like a fifth gear and must be maunally engaged. It will increase your highway speeds. If you wish a five speed gearbox can be added at this time.
Your second option is to buy a good 109 and upgrade it as you drive it. I have done this and by doing this I know what needs to be improved to make my 109 better. This can be frustrating but seems very rewarding. Also working on my own truck is teaching me a thing or two about cars in general.
Your thrid option is to buy a really nice 109 that are for sale and work from there. These 109s are usually priced similar to a D-90 so it might not be that attractive.
The discovery and the Range Rover Classic (RRC) are very nice vehicles. Very comfortable, very highway worthy, and very good off road ability. From what you have suggested, it sounds like a discovery or RRC will be your best bet. Unless you have the ultimate dream of owning a 109, I would consider these options heavily.
Besides, what kind of 109 do you want? A soft top is not all that great for highway driving (I have one). A Station Wagon is probably your best bet from what I can tell. These are good people carriers, sounds like something you might need.
Tell us more about your expectations and what kind of budget you have. We are willing to help you!!
Max T.
Series 3 109 |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 08:31 am: |
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a Discovery converted to a 300tdi makes the most sense in terms of cost, comfort and highway road worthiness
No, a Tdi-conversion doesn't. You would never recoup the cost of the conversion in fuel-savings, and would lose highway comfort in the process.
Part of what makes a 109/110 so great for the "classic" expedition isn't that it is trouble free - you WILL be working on it - but that they are simplisticly built so that you CAN work on it yourself in the field....
Your questions:
1) with that kind of mileage, you'll be cursing a Series after awhile. I would STRONGLY suggest having two vehicles, a Subaru or something to take the brunt of the highway mileage, and the Rover as a second vehicle for use when needed. But, you could do a coil-conversion, etc., to a 109 to make it more like a 110.... but, it would be cheaper to buy one of the 110s that are floating around. By the time you swap the frame, axles, engine, spruce up the bodywork and interior, you'll be in a rather pricey vehicle.
2) Not cheap, even if you do the labor yourself. If you want ride of a 110, get a 110.
3) Even with a 5-speed, the 2.5 won't be stellar... 109/110 aren't light vehicles. In an 88 or a 90, it's okay, but not great...
4) The door-windows on a 110 roll up; you can readily fit those doors on a 90, or a 109 or an 88. With modification, regular sliding windows can be made more secure, if you want to keep it more original. If you REALLY want it to be secure, add locking hasps to the doors. Or, find a set of Doormobile locks (they had an additional lock-set on the doors, kinda cool...)
5) It could be done. Depends on your skill as an automotive electrician, tho'..... However, a Series won't be that weather-resistant, expect things to get wet inside. With that much electrical gear, I'd think about a Rangie or a Disco.
6) Get a Disco or a Rangie. They're comfortable. A 90 or an 88 aren't practical with smaller kids, as they need to be in car-seats that are forward-facing, and those Rovers' backseats are usually side-facing. You can add a forward facing seat back there, but, it makes it hard to get a kid in and out of the seat.
Sounds like, you either need to buy a Disco or a Rangie, or, a 110. It would be far cheaper to buy an older Rangie or a Disco than it would be to make a 109 into what you're looking for. If you knew what you were doing, you could build a 109 for less to match a 110, but, that would be you doing the work yourself, and, it would still be a compromise. You would be far ahead of the game to just buy a 110, instead of spending months to modify-convert a Series.
Yes, even buying a D90 would be less than building
up a 109 into what you want.
I agree with Max, it all depends on your budget. You CAN take a 109, and rebuild it new from the ground-up, into what you're wanting, but, it won't be quick or cheap to do so.
Again, I'd suggest three vehicles. Get a Series and a Disco and something else. That way, you've got a Series for a toy, but you have the Disco for use when needed, and the something else gets to rack up the highway mileage (Honda/Toyota/Subaru/Mitsubishi/whatever).
You can get a decent Series for under $10k, you can get a decent Disco for under $10k, and then whatever else you want.
Realize, though, that any Rover will be something that you will work at to maintain.... they are not maintenence-free vehicles. You can't drive-n-forget 'em the way you can a Toyota. But, they have a soul that a Toyota doesn't.....
IMHO, FWIW....
-L |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 11:11 am: |
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Steven,
I kinda did what you are contemplating. We took a basket case NADA '67 109 SW and redid it onto a 110 chassis/running gear with a 4.0 V-8 engine. Have now driven it for about 2 years. In response to your questions:
1) How difficult is it to make a '109 into a somewhat highway worthy car? I can drive 60,000+ miles a year sometimes. While most of this is highway driving, I at times end up driving towards floods, blizzards, severe weather, mud slides, fires, etc etc, so a good reliable 4x4 is needed.
We have driven ours from Tulsa, OK to Pittsburgh, PA and just recently out to Colorado. It gets real hot inside - hotter than a D90. So, if the outside is cool, it is ok inside especially with the roof vents open. If the outside is hot - it is like being in a blast furnance! Lots of air blowing, yet, all of it hot. As far as handling, no problems even if fully loaded and ours usually is fully loaded.
2) What is the cost associated with making the '109 into a 90/110's drive on the highway (which I know is still not the most comfortable in the world).
Depends on how extreme you want the restoration. We sold a '95D90SW to finance our project and added some additional money.
3) How sluggish is the 2.5 diesel? I know it is a low power engine, but if the engine/trannie is a 5 speed is the highway speed there?
Can't help you there as we went with a V8.
4) Is it difficult to switch the doors to the doors of a 90/110 to get a roll up window and more importantly, a door which has a more secure lock.
It is very easy to do. It was one of our considerations although we stayed with the 109 sliding window.
5) I know Rover electrical has some problem, so how difficult is it to change the electrical to accommodate three radios (two digital scanners, one 2-way radio, low wattage), laptop, AC inverter for low power items, three electronic camera battery chargers.
If you change out the engine which you'll probably do the electrical system also gets upgraded. Upgrade to your needs.
6) Convert the inside, primarily the driver/passenger area to a more comfortable, warmer, area since I often end up living in my car. (toddler in the car seat won't know the back seat is not so cozy for 2-3 years, and I hope to be able to get to the back seat by then if I buy the vehicle.
Heat is not a problem!! Water coming in is like a D90. Cool thing about a NADA 109 is the front windshield is heated like the RR so defrost works great either in the rain or snow.
What time and financial commitment should I be prepared to make if I undertake this endeavor?
As mentioned, we used the cash from a '95D90 sale to finance the project so that will give you an idea.
Check out: http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Thompson109.html
to see our project. Let me know if I can offer any other help. jthomp2917@aol.com |
Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 12:08 am: |
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Based primarily on your comment about 60K+ miles of highway driving a year and without being to flippant, the answer is "No". |
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