| Author | Message | ||
     Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 439 Registered: 04-2002 |
About to install 2 JATEs on the front of my D1. I plan on using a tree strap/protector attached via shackles to the JATEs. This will allow me to remove the strap when not in use and would keep me from searching through the mud for connections. What are the pros and cons to this set-up? Who offers the best prices? | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 926 Registered: 02-2002 |
If I understand, you are going to have one tree strap attached across both of your jate rings, and someone will pull you out with a second (longer) strap or winch attached to your tree strap in the middle? Na! That puts too much strain on the strap, especially a wide tree strap. That's ok in an emergency situation, but for regular use you want something better. If you are planning to get stuck a lot (for example with your tires), and especially where speed is an issue, a very good buy would be a 30K strap 3" x 30' with a hook on the free end that you can clamp onto the recovery vehicle and get going in a few seconds. Keep it attached to one jate ring and have it wrapped around your brush bar when driving. Shackles are excellent, but they are slower to use, and they often get stuck with sandy crap that requires pliers to free, and (as you say) are easy to loose. Dean | ||
| Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 440 Registered: 04-2002 |
No, I was planning on using the tree strap as a bridle to attach a tow strap to. After re-thinking, I think that I would simply attach a tow strap to the JATE via a shackle and leave it budled up on the brush guard awaiting use on trails (if needed). | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 929 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jack, yes I think we are talking the same thing! You can wrap the strap into a roll and wedge it between hood and brush bar near the inside of the lights, and that way its quicker to pull it out when you have to. And a big hook pre-attached will let you grab onto someone's receiver shackle and get pulled out in an instant. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 578 Registered: 03-2003 |
OK, Dean, we'll make this one "professional" as you put it. LOL. "If you are planning to get stuck a lot (for example with your tires), and especially where speed is an issue, a very good buy would be a 30K strap 3" x 30' with a hook on the free end that you can clamp onto the recovery vehicle and get going in a few seconds. Keep it attached to one jate ring and have it wrapped around your brush bar when driving." I have to disagree with two of your points. First, the 3" x 30' is actually a poor choice for use as a recovery strap for our vehicles. A 3" strap stretches a good deal less than a 2" strap, and stretch is a good thing to have in a tow strap. I'm not talking about the kind of stretch ones gets with a kinetic rope. I'm talking about a reasonable amount of stretch for the harder pulls. A good-quality 2" strap has a breaking strength of approximately 20,000 lbs. so it is more than strong enough for our vehicles. I know, you have seen lots of straps snap on the trail. These snapped straps are almost always due to age, abrasion, some other degradation, or user error. One sees these mangled straps still in use all the time. Also, it's not a good idea to get a 30' running start and go full throttle (I've actually seen this done before). Keep your strap in good shape and you will be able to depend on it when you're stuck. "You can wrap the strap into a roll and wedge it between hood and brush bar near the inside of the lights, and that way its quicker to pull it out when you have to." I have to disagree with this one point as well. Leaving the strap in the sun is never a good idea. Sunlight quickly weakens nylon and makes the strap unsafe to use. Any strap that has been sitting in the sun for long periods should be discarded on the ground that its strength is questionable. A sunlight-exposed strap is just as questionable as an abraded strap. Using either is just asking for trouble. | ||
| Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 444 Registered: 04-2002 |
I understand. As mentioned, I would remove the strap when not in use and store it in my gear bag. I would only leave the strap on the front during off-road trips. I'd considered having the bridle method which would allow me to quickly connect to a strap but having a strap connected would allow me to lose the bridle, extra shackles, etc. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 580 Registered: 03-2003 |
I wouldn't leave the strap in the sunlight, even just for offroad trips. | ||
| Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 445 Registered: 04-2002 |
Are there any other suppliers of JATEs besides the one most advertised/discussed here? | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 933 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jack, I guess it depends on where and how much you go off road. On the trips that I have been on recently, a strap may get used 10 to 20 times in one day, and will be covered in disgusting smelly pine barrens shit. There's NO WAY you will want to take that off and throw it in the back of your disco, to shield if from the sunlight LOL. And you'll find they don't last very long with that kind of usage anyway, with all the pulls and yanking and winching that gets done to them. (And yes, sometimes you will winch on a strap instead of walking through 3 feet deep water to attach the winch to a jate or shackle). Under these conditions, the 3 inch strap will last significantly longer than the smaller. On the other hand, if you off-road in desert-like places such as Utah, as I suspect is the case with John, then maybe the straps don't get so much use and abuse, compared to how much is pure winching on bumpers and shackles. In his case, the primary degrading factor may well be the sunlight. Dean | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 390 Registered: 11-2002 |
a 2" strap is not enough strap for a 5000lb truck plus the elongation(stretch) is way to dangerous I would also not reccomend putting a hook on the end oh any strap ever!...you are asking for a death on the trail if you do. taking 1 more minute to use a shackle is well worth the safety factor. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 934 Registered: 02-2002 |
thom, I'm talking about a large, high test hook rated at least as much as a 3/4" shackle, and easily large enough to grab onto a pair of bulky strap loops. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 391 Registered: 11-2002 |
yep...and it will kill someone when it bounces loose and comes flying through a vehicle at 100mph  Dean trust me on this one...it is a bad practice and if you are doing it that way I would stop before something happens. | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 131 Registered: 05-2003 |
Thom, How is the risk of a hook different that the strap being attached with a shackle? We use hooks with winches right? Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 935 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jaime, you'd get a properly-rated and correct type of hook, with a retaining clip and large diameter pin suitable for straps. Then you can keep one on the end of your strap and lock it on to someone's receiver shackle in an instant and be out of stuck quickly. Peter was doing this all day with us and it was an elegant and efficient solution. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1141 Registered: 02-2003 |
i dont like the hook idea one bit but i agree with keep the strap attatched. when your truck is taking on water you need to get it the hell out of there not time to dig out the straps and such. adjust technique according to terrain | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 392 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jaime, straps store energy in the form of elongation(stretch) when the hook comes unhooked it gets thrown in the direction of the original load at scary rates of speed. winch cables have almost no strech so if they come loose they dont toss the hook to someones kingdom come. Dean yes if you use a hook with a clip you are better then without,but the problem with clips is they often fail and are removed or bent and cant do there job . then the hook is on your strap and you continue to use it anyways. I'm not saying its not a nice fast handy way of doing things....what I am saying is that you should always make your master plan around very safe methods. Using a safty pinned (not the crappy screw kind)D shackle is 90% as fast as a simple hook and cant fall off it is attached to a proper recovery point. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 936 Registered: 02-2002 |
Thom, Rob, You know (at least Rob does) the kind of muddy crap we get stuck in, in the pine barrens.... When you're above the door line in water and its coming in at 3 galons / minute, the main concern for most people is to get out fast as hell - save that transmission ECU. Generally those kinds of stucks are just lack of traction, nothing more than a gentle pull. So what we do is clamp a strap onto someone's receiver shackle and pull out. If you're sensible you can see quite clearly that the hook is clamped on properly, so there is really no chance of it just slipping off, no more than any other clipped winch hook will. I would agree though for major pulls and winching, the winch hooks and shackle are a better bet. On the other hand, if you have an installed 12V bailing pump, you don't care how long you sit in the wet stuff, and speed isn't an issue  | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 134 Registered: 05-2003 |
Thom, Thanks for the straps link, those seem like really good straps. I was looking at Mcmaster-Carr type "web sling hooks" in the search box. They looked pretty sturdy. What I have now is a pair of forged steel shackles with hitch pins (search for "shackles" on the mc Master site). Since I already use them to keep a front and rear strap attached while playing in the mud, I was looking for something else (hook or shackle) for the other end. I'll probably end up with another 2 shackles because of their versatility | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 394 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jaime those are very sweet straps I have used them for years and they are really the ticket, someone walked off with my 60' strap so I will be picking a new one up. The long starps are so soft and passive to both trucks once you use one anything else is just crap. Also the 60' length allows you a longer range then other straps so you can reach trucks from solid ground more often. try one, if you do deep mud like we do here in the midwest they are the best way to go. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1201 Registered: 02-2002 |
One point a bit off topic here about any kind of strap or synthetic winch line used in the mud/dirt/sand, etc - ALWAYS pressure wash the strap or line when finished with it that day. Just roll it out on the driveway and pressure wash both sides of it. The grit in solution works its way into the strap/line and abrades it from the inside out evrytime it is stretched. It not only shortens your line life, but is also dangerous because the strap can look good from the outside, but is weakened in the interior. My .02 Bill | ||
| Greg (Gparrish) Senior Member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1475 Registered: 04-2002 |
Wouldn't pressure washing force the grit in though? Just curious. | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1204 Registered: 02-2002 |
3000-4000 psi blows it all the way through Bill | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 938 Registered: 02-2002 |
Damn you guys take good care of your straps! I'm impressed. Now I'm considering rubbing some soothing hand lotion into them at the end of the day, perhaps one with a sunblock too, just for John | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1207 Registered: 02-2002 |
I always take good care of tools...but my truck is another story LOL Bill | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 585 Registered: 03-2003 |
Yes, many things depend on the terrain. If you're going into a deep water hole, it's a good idea to have the strap on the bumper and ready, just in cast you get stuck. This is obvious. My point was that it it's a bad idea to put the strap on the bumper as a matter of course before you hit the trail. Lots of people do this as part of their pre-trail routine because they think it looks cool or they're lazy, but it's is a bad habit. Exposing the strap to sunlight and other particulate matter is a bad idea. You may expose the strap only for a few hours before you need it, but those hours eventually add up. On the 2" vs. 3" strap, we can agree to disagree. I believe a 2" strap is preferable for our vehicles because of the greater stretch it provides. This stretch is easier on your recovery points. It is also generally better to have the strap be weaker than the recovery points, as a flailing strap is considerably safer than a flailing recovery point. I have consulted with several authorities on this point, including Bill Burke, and the unanimous opinion of those whom I consulted is that the 2" strap is preferable to the 3" strap for our use. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 940 Registered: 02-2002 |
John, Well I guess we tend to use the 3 inchers more because they just last longer, with all the crap and use they get and most of the pulls being relatively mild. Every single time it seems they get dunked in muddy crap, all day long usually. Anayway, so what's your personal opinion on the kinetic recovery ropes? I kinda hate the idea of such enormous stored potential energy, but then many people rave about them, so I'm considering buying one some time. Dean | ||
| han chung (Hanchung) Member Username: Hanchung Post Number: 129 Registered: 10-2002 |
so... for post trip clean up of the ropes... i'd think that washing w/ water and hang drying in the garage would be the best way to keep the ropes in good shape. like firefighter's water hoses... they hang dry them on 30' towers. well, not the same material but seems to be the most natural way of drying. definately wouldn't use soap or other chemicals to wash nor tossing the rope in the dryer. any opinions? | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 586 Registered: 03-2003 |
I prefer nylon straps to kinetic ropes. Kinetic ropes are sort of like giant rubber bands, and I don't like the fact that you can't do a controlled pull with them the way you can with a nylon strap. I really like nylon straps because you can do a controlled tug if you want, or you can do a hard tug if you want and the strap will stretch a little. A kinetic rope just stretches no matter what. I consider nylon to be a happy medium between a kinetic rope and a chain. You can't do a controlled pull with a kinetic rope, and you can't do a hard pull (getting a running start type of pull) with a chain. A nylon strap is very nice for general-purpose use. Also, I don't like the fact that so much energy is stored inside the kinetic rope because of its huge amount of stretch. This can be dangerous. The recovery points used have to be able to take the load, and if the recovery points ever fail, they will slingshot even more with a kinetic rope than they would with a nylon strap. I suppose if everyone has solid recovery points it is much less of a concern, but how many people on the trail have solid recovery points? About one in 10? One in 20? One more thing I dont like about kinetic ropes is that they are not as convenient to use as a strap. I really like how a strap rolls up: http://expeditionexchange.com/straps/DSC04234.jpg That's a 2" x 30' strap, and it is very easy to handle when it is rolled up. It doesn't take nearly the space that a 30' kinetic rope would take and it stores away and unrolls open very easily. A kinetic rope is very large to store and it tangles much more easily than a nylon strap does. These are general guidelines only. Kinetic ropes and chains have their place. But for most recoveries, I prefer the nylon strap. | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 135 Registered: 05-2003 |
My next strap is going to be a 60 footer. Last time in the Pine Barrens, someone was stuck in the mud/water. My 2" rear strap was not long enough to reach from dry ground, so we attached it with a shackle to rope he had attached to a recovery point on the front bumper. The rope was made for recovery, and I think it was rated at 20,000 lbs. I took up the slack and pulled...no good, my tires just spun. After a while of that, I backed up about 3 feet, and moved forward slowly with a bit of momentum...still no good. I backed up 5 feet and moved forward with a bit more momentum this time......SNAP!!!! his rope broke aft of the loop where the shackle was attached. Luckily, the shackle only recoiled about 5 feet. What I have learned.. If I ever have to join two straps/ropes/cables with a shackle, and am going to be pulling on it, I will cover the damn thing with a moving blanket even if its the mud and is going to get wet. We eventually got him out with a winch, but had to strap two discos together as ballast, because the suction of the mud was so strong. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 941 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jaime, also pick up a good shorter strap at the same time. I think that 60 footer will come in extremely handy, and it will get much use from ALL of us, but its probably not the one you want left on your brush bar for every regular recovery. A 30 footer is more managable on a regular basis. The longer one I think will get so much use that you'd better just keep in wrapped up on your roof rack where we can all get to it fast, and possibly steal it As for that rope, well its quality was questionable to say the least. It appeared to me to be a regular cheap brown tow rope. | ||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 93 Registered: 06-2003 |
It was actually a marine rope rated at at least 16,000 lbs, which wasnt enough. I orderd 2 7/8" ropes from masterpull. one in 20' and one in 30'. I also put on winch rope. | ||
| Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 451 Registered: 04-2002 |
So, the jates are attached. What would be the recommended way to attach a strap to the jates? A simple shackle? | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 787 Registered: 08-2002 |
Yes. I always use something like this to attach to my recovery points. http://www.expeditionexchange.com/smb/DSC05463.jpg When setting up for the first recovery on a trail run I will put one on boths ends of my strap. It would attach directly to you JATE on one end and to another shackle attached to a tree saver or what have you. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 982 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jack - do you want to use 2 jates or just one? | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 146 Registered: 05-2003 |
Related question. Is it unsafe to join 2 30' straps together by using the strap loops in order to have a 60' length? This way a shackle would not be in the middle, just at either end? The 60' strap is 6" wide and $200, the 3" by 30' is $60 and I already have a 30 footer. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 983 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jaime, you still haven't ordered it yet have you? Hurry up we may need it soon! I think what you say is ok in an emergency, which for us means you're stuck in 3 feet of water and time is of the essence. Usually then the vehicle is not too badly stuck and can be pulled out easily. But I wouldn't want to yank on straps like that, or winch hard. But anyway we have enough winch line to pull someone all the way across wharton forest! | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior Member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 422 Registered: 11-2002 |
if you go loop to loop after one hard pull getting them back apart is damn near impossible those 6" x 60' straps are sooooo worth the money you wont be let down | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1173 Registered: 02-2003 |
dean i cant believe you arent sick of swimming in the water yet. i just dont get it lol | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 147 Registered: 05-2003 |
Yeah..I think you got a point Thom. Rob, I think its the rush you get once you make it. I get all anxious when I look at the 100 yards of water we need to get through..I pace back and forth trying to figure where the best line is, hoping that while I'm dilly dallying someone else gets impatient and goes first..So then Dean, in his calm unflappable British way of his, cooly drives across...so now I'm like shit,, now I gotta do it!! And I gotta remember to avoid the big dip that he almost got stuck in, 'cause I surely will.. was it next to that bush?? no I think it was the next one...meanwhile my poor stock disco is bubbling along slipping and sliding through the watery whale shit mud that lies at the bottom.. I got a death grip on the wheel, my rectum is closed tighter than a clam, and the cool brit is on the other side filming the event. I think that's why he likes it. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 794 Registered: 08-2002 |
If you are going to join straps use shackles, no?? The best technique by far if the current permits is to put on your waders, grab your shovel and head accross. maybe a life jacket and or rope ties to your truck just in case. Another good technique to use when crossing rivers is to throw a decent size stone in the water and see if you can hear it hit or the sound of splash that it makes. Sometimes you can hear it hit bottom. Sometimes you can here that it is a deep ka-sploosh. Play around with a few rocks next time and see what I mean. Of course with 100 yards you might have to device some kind of catapult to get a large enough rock into the middle, but that sounds like fun too. Anyhow, just some suggestions. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 984 Registered: 02-2002 |
2 discos and a good kinetic rope, and I think you've got a pretty decent catapult! | ||
| Rick Neff (Lostinboston) Member Username: Lostinboston Post Number: 142 Registered: 06-2003 |
HAHAHA, Jaime that was the best was to describe wheeling with Dean. | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 149 Registered: 05-2003 |
Well, I just got back from K-mart with a pair of chest waders. looking forward to the Lunar Eclipse Pine Barrens Night Run! See ya tomorrow Rick. | ||
| Sean Roche (Crazy_fish) New Member Username: Crazy_fish Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2003 |
Question about nylon and sunlight. I've found these references to the reactions... 1) Flags-100% Nylon Fabric. All Weather, Fade , and Sunlight Resistant. 2) nylon has good resistance to ultraviolet deterioration from sunlight, referred to as "U.V. stability". 3) Many anchor shackles are stowed on deck or in pulpit hangers so that the nylon tie is exposed to sunlight. In about six to eight months the nylon ties will become brittle and break up 4) Nylon's sunlight hour life is 1,800 to 2,300 hours. It will lose approximately 70% of its strength in 3-4 years when used outdoors. 5) If you want a hammock that can handle the outdoors best, especially if you use it by the ocean or in direct sunlight, choose nylon. ... 6) Black Nylon Has the same characteristics as nylon natural, but also has ultraviolet inhibitors which permits use in direct sunlight. This nylon is heat stabilized. 7) Nylon is less resistant to sunlight than polyester -a1/4'' nylon rope may lose up to 50% of it's strength after a years continuous exposure to severe tropical conditions. In colder conditions, on the other hand, nylon grows stronger, less stretchy, and stiffer. 8) Nylon is strong and abrasion resistant, shows good sunlight resistance and excellent resistance to mildew. 9) The ultraviolet rays in sunlight quickly and permanently weaken nylon. Is there a correct answer here? lol Either way, it seems like it takes many many hours to weaken. Thanks for your time Sean | ||
| Randy Maynard (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 665 Registered: 08-2002 |
Heard on the trail during night ops at SAE: "Gee, do you think we should put away our tow strap so the moon's UV rays don't weaken it?" followed by a loud round of laughter..... | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2165 Registered: 02-2002 |
Well Damn, I just learned something very important by reading this thread. This weekend will be spent washing my straps and winch line. Thanks Bill. | ||
| John Davies (200tdi) New Member Username: 200tdi Post Number: 9 Registered: 07-2003 |
To join two straps together thread them thru each other using the loops but place a 1" dia. timber stick or a rolled up newspaper(like a 9" length of that broken shovel handle) in between so they can be undone later. John D | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 163 Registered: 05-2003 |
Great minds think alike! The same thought occurred to me on the way home tonight | ||
| Vaden (Vaden72) New Member Username: Vaden72 Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2003 |
i am about to buy a warn receiver shackle but until then how would the 2 recover loops on the back of the disco on each side of the gas tank work? are they what some were refering to as solid recovery points or is a receiver shackle the only solid recovery point? | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 701 Registered: 02-2003 |
No, do NOT use those for recovery, you could kill somebody. Those are tiedown loops for when the truck is transported. - Axel | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 665 Registered: 05-2003 |
Vaden, Axel is right, right right. DON'T use those!! I had the goofy bright idea that they could be used for airlift. NOT! They are ONLY for tying down your truck during transport. Receiver shackles are cheap equipment. If you don't have access to one right away, borrow one for the day. Make sure you also borrow a snatch strap and 2 shackles at least 3/4" in size. Jamie | ||
| Vaden (Vaden72) New Member Username: Vaden72 Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks for the info guys! - I will be sure not to use those loops and I will pick up a receiver shackle before I head back out on the trails. Does anyone know a better place to get a receiver shackle than http://www.roveraccessories.com/warn.htm they got warn for $38 is that the best deal around? Thanks again! Vaden | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 704 Registered: 02-2003 |
You can get a reciever shackle bracket with a shackle included for $45 at EE. https://www.expeditionexchange.com/superwinch/indexmain.htm - Axel | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 46 Registered: 12-2003 |
I just ordered the Superwinch myself. | ||
| Martin Tuip (Ajax) Member Username: Ajax Post Number: 56 Registered: 06-2003 |
Would using the JATEs for sale here be more usable for reovery then the standard stuff that is mounted on the RRC ? http://www.landroverstuff.com/products.htm Just trying to make sure that if I get stuck I have the proper stuff available to get my car out trouble | ||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 829 Registered: 02-2002 |
JATE rings are much more reliable in a recovery situation than any factory tie downs that come from the factory | ||
| Wicks (Wicks) Member Username: Wicks Post Number: 129 Registered: 03-2003 |
This is a lot of talk, some of it scary. John prolly has some kind of official study he could point people to on the subjects of: 1) When to replace your nylon straps & ropes due to wither age and damage, and: 2) The important rules of winching/towing under vehicle recovery, including putting the hood up and all that. Nobody mentioned the rare and exotic ExpeditionWare Recovery Rope (ROPE that is - soft and pretty good old fashioned rope) which I am a proud owner of. ;) | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 715 Registered: 02-2003 |
Get Bill Burke's "Unstuck" video if you want to learn about safe vehicle recovery. - Axel | ||
| Jaime Crusellas (Jaime) Member Username: Jaime Post Number: 193 Registered: 05-2003 |
I was looking over my LR owner's manual ('97 disco), and it states that the rear loops MAY be used for vehicle recovery. It also states that the 2 front welded loops are for tie down purposes only. The stock D1 has one LR designed recovery point in the front. IMO, these recovery points are poorly designed. I was stuck in deep mud and needed a tug. We hooked to the front LR recovery point, and tugged with a snatch strap. Straight pulling was not doing it, so the tugging disco backed up a few feet and moved forward with a reasonable amount of momentum. That got me unstuck, while at the sime time I heard a screech. When I went to remove the strap, the LR recovery point had torn free from 2 of the 3 attachment bolts. The rear loops are secured by one bolt. Am I going to trust them? I don't think so. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 813 Registered: 02-2003 |
I don't care what the manual says about those rear loops, they are too weak to be used safely for any kind of serious recovery. At the minimum, go out and buy a $5 trailer hitch pin, then you can stick the loop from your towstrap inside the receiver and secure it with the pin for safe recovery. You will need that hitch pin once you buy a receiver shackle bracket, anyway. You can also replace those wimpy rear loops with Jate rings. As for the front, I haven't seen anything stock that I would be comfortable using. On the D1, I would get a couple of Jate rings for a stock truck. - Axel | ||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Senior Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 301 Registered: 02-2002 |
Following up on Sean's post regarding nylon's uv stability, nylon is not inherently uv stable. To stabilize the nylon, either carbon black pigment or special uv stabilizers are added to slow the deterioration of the nylon from uv. Unless you can confirm that the manufacturer is using stabilizers to make the nylon fiber, I'd assume they're not stabilized. As the strap fades, the properties of the fiber will begin to drop. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1360 Registered: 02-2002 |
Mike - if the limiting factor in the life span of one's strap is exposure to sunlight, then one should get out and go wheeling more! | ||
| Lee R. Byrd (Mobile) Member Username: Mobile Post Number: 87 Registered: 07-2003 |
Just a thought here... What is the diameter of the ball-opening in a trailer hitch? If it is 3/4" or larger could one just turn the hitch sideways, drill holes for the hitch pin and then install a bow shackle in the ball-opening that was previously occupied by the ball? If someone had an old ball and hitch available it might be a cheaper alternative. | ||
| James M. Reed (Utahdog2003) Member Username: Utahdog2003 Post Number: 45 Registered: 03-2004 |
Moron JATE question: wouldn't the d shape deform if you hooked a shackle to it and gave it a good pull? forgive the question, but I come from Toyotas where the trucks are light enough you can pull a lace from your boot and use it as a strap! | ||
| Wicks (Wicks) Member Username: Wicks Post Number: 169 Registered: 03-2003 |
They're made for air-porting, and fixing as sea and air cargo, not for tugging and recovery. They look really cool and if you put a strap through it, not a shackle, they'd likely hold up fine. But this thread is long dead. What's your motive? | ||
| James M. Reed (Utahdog2003) Member Username: Utahdog2003 Post Number: 56 Registered: 03-2004 |
My "motive" is World Domination | ||
| Wicks (Wicks) Member Username: Wicks Post Number: 174 Registered: 03-2003 |
Well then you will most certainly fail. | ||
| James M. Reed (Utahdog2003) Member Username: Utahdog2003 Post Number: 86 Registered: 03-2004 |
thanks for your JATE input. That said, for somebody who questioned why I was responding to a "long dead" thread, you sure are working hard to keep it alive. |
