| Author | Message | ||
     Adam Ross (Discodriveradam) Member Username: Discodriveradam Post Number: 141 Registered: 01-2003 |
I was wondering if anyone could tell me what you use to measure how tight a bolt is tightened? I see specs that say, "Tighten to 2 Nm," but I'm not sure how to check this. Some help please? | ||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 157 Registered: 02-2003 |
Yes, a Torque wrench. I prefer the clicker style. I use this one for 3/8 drive lower torque stuff. http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=55258&group_ID= 954&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog -Leo | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1231 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jeez does it always have to be Snapon? You can pick up a similar thing of SAME stated accuracy at sears or home depot or anywhere like that for a fifth of that price. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1428 Registered: 02-2003 |
i blew out a sears one in a matter of three uses and it wasn't a mechanical error. it's the damn plastic handle. it has a very limited warranty so there is no advantage to getting craftsman. (cant abuse and take back) go with SOMETHING thats is solid metal construction. what ever reputable brand that might be. rd | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 743 Registered: 03-2003 |
No, it doesn't always have to be Snap-on. But if you think those Sears and Home Depot torque wrenches have the same accuracy or durability as a Snap-on torque wrench, you're fooling yourself. "SAME stated accuracy" is meaningless. You believe it because you want to believe it. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 697 Registered: 02-2003 |
The old saying "You get what you pay for" is especially applicable to tools, I think. Good tools are not cheap, but you buy them once, and that's it. - Axel | ||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 158 Registered: 02-2003 |
It doesnt have to be Snap-on it just has to be accurate and tough so of the few brands that have those features I happen to like Snap-on. You could always mention Harbor Freight, Dean they also have the same stated accuracy as your Craftsman at a even cheaper price. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=239 -leo | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1349 Registered: 02-2002 |
Lots of good deals on used Snap-on on Ebay! Don't bother with the sears/Home depot crap - look for something with all metal construction. Snap-on/ Wright tool/ Proto all make excellent quality torque wrenches that will last a lifetime if cared for. Bill | ||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 159 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hey Bill speaking of Proto, I just picked up about 600 Combo Wrenches from 1inch to 2 1/2 I bet 75% are proto and the rest are allen and Wright.  I had never messed with Wright but they look like they make a hell of a impact socket set and wrenches. -Leo | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1234 Registered: 02-2002 |
I really don't believe some of these posts sometimes! No-one ever seems to read into the question, to see what kind of quality and price is being sought. With all due respect to Adam, if he's not sure what tool measures torque, then he's probably just starting out and learning and building up a good first set of tools. Its not like some Ferrari tech has come here to ask for a torque wrench! So its kinda dumb to just recommend the rolls royce of tools, where there are perfectly adequate versions on the market for an order of magnitude less in cost. For a typical guy doing a bunch of jobs on the rover, you don't need the $200 torque wrench at all. And there is no reason to avoid craftsman or huskey (home depot brand), maybe Rob got a bad one but they both sell very high quality tools and many of them have lifetime guarantees. My $50 torque wrench has done me well over several years despite a shit load of abuse. Dean | ||
| David Seger (Croakus) Member Username: Croakus Post Number: 76 Registered: 06-2003 |
Hey! I just bought a Snap-On XD5000023FG5-34G for only $1237.23. It's got THREE SETTINGS too! And because I spent the most money I know I got exactly the tool I need. In short: I agree, Dean. I have a garage full of Craftsmen and Huskey tools that have never let me down. Including a $50 tourque wrench that has no plastic parts. And the money I saved versus Snap-On enabled me to buy the house I live in and the garage I park the Land Rover in. Not to mention the Land Rover. We don't all have to buy the most expensive thing available for God's sake. Most of us don't actually drive over the tools with our Land Rovers. | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 418 Registered: 10-2002 |
A torque wrench is one tool that is WORTH the extra $$ for the quality of a Snap-On etc. IMHO. That said, I have a couple craftsman torque wrenches that were given to me as Xmas gifts years ago. I remember acting appropriately happy as I opened them while thinking "I DID say Snap-on when I was asked what I wanted"-LOL. BTW-Rob, it's bad form to use your torque wrench as a breaker bar with cheater pipe-hehe | ||
| Adam Ross (Discodriveradam) Member Username: Discodriveradam Post Number: 142 Registered: 01-2003 |
Just so you know, a torque wrench was what I expected to be the answer, but Dean is right: I am just now getting into the wrenching aspect of Rover-ownership, and I seriously have never seen a torque wrench that you could set. The ones I have used (which were quite inferior in quality) had nothing of the sort. I was actually curious to see if maybe there was another entirely separate gizmo that could be used to measure the torque. And I prefer to purchase top-notch stuff, so even if I do only use it once (which is entirely unlikely, barring an act of God), I will still buy the best. | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 419 Registered: 10-2002 |
Adam- There are tools that measure torque angle of bolts that are supposed to be a more accurate measurement of clamping pressure than torque wrenches. These supposedly measure bolt elasticity and "twist" from what I understand. That's not to be confused with the TTY or "torque to yield" that is so popular with head bolts these days. You know, the book says to progressively torque the head bolt to 65 ft/lbs. then twist another 1/2 turn thereafter. That effectively stretches the bolt which is why these type of head bolts require replacement with each use. However, since you are looking for the best, may I suggest the "Computorq II". It may meet you needs: http://www.belknaptools.com/torquemodel1.asp http://www.contractorstools.com/cdicomputorq.html | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1350 Registered: 02-2002 |
Dean, I too have all kinds of Husky and Craftsman stuff and am happy with it for what I do, but from experience both at home and at work can say do not buy their torque wrenches - you might as well just burn a $50 bill. They will not last even under mild shade tree use. Also - torque wrenches are not covered under the lifetime warranty from HD or Sears. A decent torque wrench is a lifetime investment. Leo - good deal! Thats one BIG set of wrenches Proto and Wright stuff is really good quality -especially the stuff that's older. Bill | ||
| Sean Clawson (Jacintyre) New Member Username: Jacintyre Post Number: 34 Registered: 09-2003 |
FWIW, I spent my $50 on a Home Depot/Husky Torque wrench. It lasted me exactly three uses until the drive section cracked in half. I won't buy another one and wouldn't recommend them to anyone. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1040 Registered: 04-2003 |
what do you guys find is/are the most convenient torque wrench(es) to own? 3/8" or 1/2"? length? flex or fixed head? torque rating? | ||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 161 Registered: 02-2003 |
3/8 - 5-70lbs gets almost everything done on a rover... besides some of the rear axle and final drive components and some engine parts. Panhard rod mounting arm (nut) - 81 lbf ft Lower Links to Axles 130 lbf ft Pinion Flange Nuts 96 lbf ft and a few other ones. the most common one would be Steel and Alloy rims are put on with 130 lbf ft. I have a flex head and never needed the flex, just happened to end up with it. I have yet to need over the 70 on a regular basis, but it would be nice to have a 1/2 too for those higher torque items. -Leo | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 744 Registered: 03-2003 |
Leo, You may be missing out on a bet by having to buy two separate torque wrenches for your box. Check out the stated accuracy on that torque wrench at Harbor Freight that you linked to earlier. Take a look: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=239 This torque wrench has a very impressive stated accuracy. It has a 4% stated accuracy on a torque range from 10 to 150 ft. lbs. Most torque wrenches are accurate only to 5x smaller than the maximum torque, e.g., 50-250 ft. lbs. accuracy range. However, this torque wrench at Harbor Freight is accurate for a full 15x range. This means that you could have purchased a single torque wrench with a stated price of $20 that would have given you the same stated performance as two separate Snap-on torque wrenches that will cost you $400 or more. This also means that Snap-on's Techwrench electronic technology was wasted, because another company was obviously able to expand on the 5x barrier without resorting to electronic means. This is quite remarkable when you think about it. Whether this torque wrench can ever be recalibrated when it goes astray with use is unimportant. Also unimportant is whether this torque wrench has a lifetime warranty, because what is more important is that Harbor Freight sells some other tools that do in fact have a lifetime warranty. I just saved you a stated $380. Thank you very much. | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1437 Registered: 02-2003 |
and it looks to be all metal construction which is important. rd | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1042 Registered: 04-2003 |
I just bougth 2 of those harbor freight babies so I'm twice as stylin | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2336 Registered: 02-2002 |
In airplane land, we never get cheap Q wrenches. Every Q wrench we use is Snap-on. period. Now, as far as size goes........ This one is perfect for all of my light work: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?tool=all&item_ID=55256&group_ID=953&s tore=snapon-store&dir=catalog This is another good one for heavier jobs: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?tool=all&item_ID=55262&group_ID=954&s tore=snapon-store&dir=catalog But when I need the BIG ANGRY, I break out this: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=55269&group_ID= 954&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog There is a few items on my airplane that take 485 foot lbs. Man Torque. | ||
| Bill Mallin (Billmallin) Member Username: Billmallin Post Number: 54 Registered: 09-2003 |
hmm, I have to say, when I need the BIG ABGRY, I prefer this: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=12201&group_ID= 1648&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog Bill Mallin Web Dood Houston Land Rover Club http://www.houstonlandroverclub.com 2001 Disco AKA "Sherman" | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2342 Registered: 02-2002 |
Bill, That hammer is for women! LOL! We have a bigger version of this: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=9098&group_ID=1046&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog But we call it THOR | ||
| Bill Mallin (Billmallin) Member Username: Billmallin Post Number: 59 Registered: 09-2003 |
Damn. I do have a suedo-serious question: I know "quality" and all that, but that's nearly $200. A hammer? Steel and molded urethane? It costs $200. You don't put bourbon in it or anything? $200 will buy a lot of Royales with cheese... | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2343 Registered: 02-2002 |
There are precision installation applications that I need to perform that cannot be beat with by a metal hammer. Therefore, molded dead blows are the way to go. No bourbon or anything..... | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1254 Registered: 02-2002 |
But still! $200 for a hammer? | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1445 Registered: 02-2003 |
i agree $ 200 hammer.... rip off this must be the one we read about when the Gov't is buying them rd | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 265 Registered: 02-2003 |
it scares me that Paul is beating a part on a V-22 with any hammer, let alone a $200.00 one...LOL | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 916 Registered: 08-2002 |
I have that same torque wrench from harbor frieght in 3/8, cannot remember why I did not get 1/2. Then I have a husky 1/2. IMHO the husky is more accurate and more better. John, was that sarcasm I sensed? | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2344 Registered: 02-2002 |
That's some gourmet shit.....the $200 hammer that is. You guys just buy shit...... | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 523 Registered: 11-2002 |
This is hillarious. WHy buy a torque wrench at all if its not accurate ? Does it make you feel better that it has a certain amount of "Advertised" accuracy ? lol Dean how do you know it has served you well? How long you had the truck ? "Blow me" | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 749 Registered: 03-2003 |
Why would someone buy a shit torque wrench? Because he's a cheap fuck, that's why. It really is that simple, no matter how much he might try to explain about cost/benefit analysis, being unable to justify the quality wrench, not wrenching for a living, blah blah blah. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1262 Registered: 02-2002 |
Oh for Christ's sake get you heads out of your arses! Can't you read the first post? You two are both mechanics or do a fuck load of stuff, so fine, you expect to use the best stuff. But are you seriously recommending this stuff to a beginner? What if the guy has say $500 to spend on tools, and that's his budget. (And not everyone is a cheap bastard John, they can in fact just be poor. If I had a nickel for every time you've said that, I'd be a fucking millionaire by now!) So, he can come out of Sears or Home Depot with a HUGE box of craftsman or huskeys, sockets, breakers, extensions, universals, he could probably not even carry the stuff. On the other hand, he could come out with one fucking snap-on ratchet and 2 sockets. LMFAO which one of those is gonna really be the best thing to recommend? And Kyle, don't give me that shit. I've been using huskey-quality 'crap' since I started rebuilding cylinder heads approx 18 years ago, and ever since then I've never EVER broken a socket. If you treat those brands with respect they really will last a life time. And I trust my $50 torque wrench to be good enough. If I could be bothered I'd go an put it on a torque tester ($1000 at Sears) and make sure its accurate, but I really don't think its a badly made tool so I'll just continue to trust it, just like you do with your snap-ons. "Blow you" | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1451 Registered: 02-2003 |
ok, when you guys are all done blowing each other let me know. sears tools fine i just bought a $400 set myself sears torque wrench i still say stay away from rd | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 690 Registered: 05-2003 |
I bought my hammer from the snap on guy. It was one of his weekly specials, so I purchased it for $11 http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?search=true&item_ID=9102&PartNo=HBD24 &group_id=1047&store=snapon-store&tool=all | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2347 Registered: 02-2002 |
Dean, Not trying to be a dick, but.....Do you check the calibration of your torque wrenches periodically? It doesn't matter if you have a $50 Harbor Freight special or a $1000 unit that the Pope himself uses. You have to have these things checked and recalibrated from time to time. For the record, I have been turning wrenches on airplanes since '88. | ||
| Ron Brown (Ron) Senior Member Username: Ron Post Number: 667 Registered: 04-2001 |
Why would someone buy a shit torque wrench? Because he's a cheap fuck, that's why." Actually the cheap bar type torque wrench (sears $25 or half that on ebay) in practice is more accurate than the click type because people are idiots and go way to fast or slow with the click. I have two of the lowes cobalt ones (before they switched away from the snap on manufacturer made ones) and I still prefer the bar type even though it is harder to use. Rover went away from a strict torque setting on the head bolts and instead go with a small torque and then two addtional turns and that is the main thing you need anyway. IMHO prep is key to proper torque more than the tool. Clean out the hole of fluid, use or do not use lubricant on the fastener, etc. Ron | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1263 Registered: 02-2002 |
No, I do not check the torque calibration. As I said, the tool doesn't get used that much to warrent it, I'm not working in a shop rebuilding engines all day, and because I have a fairly new disco I hope I won't have to do so for a while. So tell me what is do damned crucial? For a regular Joe doing a bunch of stuff to a disco, a regular medium-quality torque wrench is just fine. Adam is reading the shop manual and sees that every fucking bolt under the sun has to be torqued to its specs, but the fact is he didn't know what a torque wrench is, so what exactly do you think he's gonna be working on? Adam, buy a decent wrench, it will come already tested and callibrated to within a few %, and a few years down the road get it re-tested if you like, but for now it will be perfectly adequate. Dean | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2348 Registered: 02-2002 |
There is a reason for exact torque specs. It's called engineering design. | ||
| Tim (Snowman) Senior Member Username: Snowman Post Number: 636 Registered: 12-2002 |
Is there a happy medium between the $25.00 and $200.00 torque wrenches? Also Husky is often referred to as the Home Depot brand. But who actually tools them up for them and produces them? It's -10 degrees in my area right now, I don't want to even turn a doorknob today! Tim | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1363 Registered: 02-2002 |
Seriously - look on Ebay - frequently high dollar Snap-on stuff is going for $60-100. You may have to have it calibrated since you wouldn't know it history, but you're still ending up with 10 times the tool that the Sears/Husky is. PS - if you get a click style wrench - always turn the torque adjustment back to zero when done to store it - it will hold calibration longer this way. Bill | ||
| Tim '92 RR (Snowman) Senior Member Username: Snowman Post Number: 638 Registered: 12-2002 |
Such as this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43991&item=245 1962227 What is your opinion of this for less than $100.00? Tim | ||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 165 Registered: 02-2003 |
3/8 Drive Snap on Inch lb Torque wrench. You probably want lbf ft. I use one like that for small lugs on circuit breakers and installing heat sinks. -Leo | ||
| Tim '92 RR (Snowman) Senior Member Username: Snowman Post Number: 639 Registered: 12-2002 |
Gotcha, thanks Leo. This is a good thread for me, I want to get a torque wrench soon. | ||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 166 Registered: 02-2003 |
If you have a Fax I can send you the torque specs from the Disco service manual -leo | ||
| Randy Maynard (Rans) Senior Member Username: Rans Post Number: 723 Registered: 08-2002 |
You guys all talk about calibrating a torque wrench, how does one go about doing that? For the record I have been using "cheap-fuck" Craftsman Torque wrenches for years and have yet to break one. As to whether they are calibrated properly? Well, hell, I never knew they needed to be recalibrated! So not only am I a "cheap fuck" but apparently a "dumb cheap fuck" to boot. So educate me already. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 751 Registered: 03-2003 |
Dean, You crack me up. You're the one who started this entire thing by saying: "Jeez does it always have to be Snapon? You can pick up a similar thing of SAME stated accuracy at sears or home depot or anywhere like that for a fifth of that price." Leo didn't even call you out or badmouth Husky or Craftsman torque wrenches. Leo just told Adam what Leo used. And then you jump in out of nowhere and get hot and bothered over what Leo posted. I think this is very telling. It reveals a lot about the mind of a cheap fuck. Not only did you start this entire thing, your statement is bullshit. Those shit torque wrenches are not even close to the accuracy of a Snap-on torque wrench. Nor are they as durable, despite your claim that you have used the shit out of yours. Rob Davison, Bill Bettridge, and Sean Clawson all have said that they have broken/mangled their cheapo torque wrenches. Your response to that is that Rob must have gotten a bad one. You say: "And there is no reason to avoid craftsman or huskey (home depot brand), maybe Rob got a bad one but they both sell very high quality tools and many of them have lifetime guarantees. My $50 torque wrench has done me well over several years despite a shit load of abuse." This lifetime warranty business is a joke. You know damn well torque wrenches are not covered by a lifetime warranty, but you mention lifetime warranties because you're hoping the reader will skim what you wrote and get confused. And your last statement about putting your torque wrench through "a shit load of abuse" is interesting as well. A few posts later you write: "No, I do not check the torque calibration. As I said, the tool doesn't get used that much to warrent it" So which is it? Do you put your torque wrench through a shit load of abuse? Or does not get used enough to warrant (not warrent) a calibration? It's hilarious to watch your position change to suit the circumstances. This statement is also interesting: "What if the guy has say $500 to spend on tools, and that's his budget. (And not everyone is a cheap bastard John, they can in fact just be poor. If I had a nickel for every time you've said that, I'd be a fucking millionaire by now!) So, he can come out of Sears or Home Depot with a HUGE box of craftsman or huskeys, sockets, breakers, extensions, universals, he could probably not even carry the stuff. On the other hand, he could come out with one fucking snap-on ratchet and 2 sockets. LMFAO which one of those is gonna really be the best thing to recommend?" Yeah, that's hilarious all right. We're talking torque wrenches here. We're not talking about general service tools. If someone tells me he has $500 to spend on a tool set, I'm definitely not going to recommend Snap-on to him. I can't remember who it was, but someone previously posted in another thread that he was looking to purchase some Snap-on tools and had something like $500 to spend. My response to him was that he was in for a rude awakening. Torque wrenches are not general service tools. They are specialty tools. The vast majority of people can get by without a torque wrench all together. A torque wrench is a precision tool. It's used to measure the tightness of a fastener. If you're going to bother to use a torque wrench at all, you should get an accurate one. If you're going to use a shit torque wrench, why even bother measuring in the first place? And you talk about being broke. You play the broke card and proffer this as some kind of defense. This is bullshit. If you're truly broke, then you can get by without a torque wrench all together. If you're fairly broke and need a torque wrench, you can do a hell of a lot better than a Craftsman or Husky torque wrench. Let's say you can't afford the $200 Snap-on wrench. Many other Snap-on torque wrenches cost $400 and up. That's a lot of money. Not everyone can afford these. That's cool. But instead of recommending to people that they buy shit tools, why can't you do as Bill Bettridge does and recommend that people hit eBay and buy a second-hand Snap-on torque wrench. This is very good advice, as opposed to your bad advice. Here is just one example of what's available on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2371457927&category=42265 The guy is asking $75 and there are zero bids on it. If you're patient (and most cheap fucks like you will go to the ends of the Earth to save a dollar so I know you are patient), you can find even better deals than this. They come up all the time on eBay. This route is much preferable to buying one of the shit torque wrenches that you recommend. I would think that a Grand Dragon 10th Degree Black Belt of Cheap Fuckery like you would have done something like this instead of buying a Husky or Craftsman torque wrench. And for some unknown reason, you keep going back to Adam's being a newbie and his not needing a good torque wrench. I guess your brain decided to block out Adam's statement: "And I prefer to purchase top-notch stuff, so even if I do only use it once (which is entirely unlikely, barring an act of God), I will still buy the best." Adam admits to being a newbie but wants to "the best". Do you get it now or do you have to hear it yet again? | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1366 Registered: 02-2002 |
Rans - there are numerous services that calibrate equipment. I currently use ATS in Georgia for all my torque wrenches, calipers, micrometers, gauges, etc, etc. I normally send all tools out every 6 months for calibration (for work that is - not home) ATS - Applied Technical Services - 770-514-3288. Torque wrenches are approx $45.00 for calibration/certification. A home used torque wrench will hold calibration for quite sometime, but based on the following: 1) Good torque wrench to start with 2) Never dropped 3) Click type need to be unwound to "0" ft or inch lbs for storage 4) Never used to loosen fasteners - only tighten. Bill | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1264 Registered: 02-2002 |
John, What is your problem man? Why do you find it necessary to write so much voluminous crap? You're not the only one here with an opinion, but I think yours is the only one you ever listen to. I have seen it time and time again from you, anyone asks you what tool should I buy, its the snap-on. Not just torque wrenches, but just about anything. If fucking Granma Kitty comes up to you in home depot and says "I need a hammer to knock a nail in my wall, to hang a picture of my baby grandson", she'd end up with a $400 snap-on hammer, ground and polished and plated with fucking gold. But then she'd kick the bucket because she just spent her entire month's pension on a fucking hammer. See the point here? And where the fuck do you get off by stating huskey or craftsman are not accurate? They come calibrated and tested at the factory. If I were condoning a $15 el-cheapo harbor freight piece of shit, then you would be right in saying all that crap. But I'm not. I'm saying that craftsman and huskey and the like are perfectly decent tools. Maybe not up to the quality of snap-on, but then I look in the rover dealership here in Woodbridge, and they've got drawers and drawers of craftsman and other makes, that they are using all day long. I suppose they are just amaturish morons too by your standards? Why don't you look in the craftsman catalog - they sell many many tool kits that range between $2000 and $10000 containing hundreds of pieces. Who do you think they are selling those to? Mary Fucking Poppins? So if its good enough for a shop, how can it possibly not be up to a DIY home user? | ||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 167 Registered: 02-2003 |
Is your problem with John or Snap-on, Dean? I have talked with John about a lot of different things guns, tools, rover parts and part of the reason I ask him because he gives a honest answer. He is one of the few people who I have ever dealt with who told me not to buy something from him because it would be a waste for me. And if someone wants a collection of tools for a lifetime your right I am sure craftsman would work. the professional series are pretty clean and rugged, but if someone likes Snap-On and you dont put that much value on them why do you feel the need to attack them? I dont give a crap what tools you buy, but for some reason you are offended by mine. Dean, you need help. you seem to suffer from some sort of tool inferiority complex. -Leo | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 525 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well I should probably stay out of this but it seems I cant. With tools in general there is no such thing as "Just getting by". What you bought is either going to get it done or it isnt. There is no in between in my book. Its not about how many times it can do it half ass. Its about doing it right the first time it needs to be done , and continuing to do just that over and over. Thats what we like to call reliability. I need to know that what I have will do EXACTLY what I need it to do every single damn time I call on it to do that. If its not going to do that then its a liability not an asset , plain and simple. ONE TIME , thats all it takes for a hunk of shit to fail or do the wrong thing at the right time and you have caused yourself more work and headache then you probably had to start with. For instance , lets say that husky TW is wrong , or got wrong the last time you used it and you break it out to do a head bolt. This is extreme of course but if you dont know much you wont know when to stop and you very well could snap a bolt off with it by it reporting wrong. Now think about that , with some bolts you might say "No big deal" and just replace it and go get ANOTHER TW and carry on. But what if its a critical bolt ? What if its a complete Mother to get out once its snapped off in there? What if you just pulled the threads out of your engine block because of this Dollar 99 POS ? Now , do we need to discuss price anymore ? Or do we need to talk about what gets it done how it should be done ? Dean , people ask questions and they get answers. You however dont seem to like it when they get the absolute correct answers and you want to say there is this whole area of grey in there. Thats fine , go with that. But John gives an accurate answer to someone asking a question. Thats the issue , not what you think will "Get you by". Do you think people ask questions to get the wrong answer ? "Blow me" | ||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1208 Registered: 09-2002 |
Come to think of it, for a person who doesn't do head bolts for a living, it makes perfect sense to rent a torque wrench. To find a good tool rental may take some time, but if you do fine one nearby, it's a blessing. I've tried to persuade the owner of such a place to sell me his hub puller that he bought in 1972, and he refused. "It'll be here for you and others like you, for years to come!" | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1266 Registered: 02-2002 |
I made an assumption, from the guy's initial post, thet he's not gonna be working on an engine block. I assumed that he would be working on a bunch of stuff like suspension, shocks, off-road accessories, engine accessories, you know the kind of things that regular people (not mechanics) do. Based on that, I would really hate to see the guy startle at having to spend hundreds of $$$ on a snap-on TW. The guy can buy what he wants, dosn't bother me in the slightest. I just wanted to offer an alternative, because I know a whole bunch of people that are using the same midium-quality TW's that I use, and they are not all wrong and they are not all destroying their rovers either. The more info the better, IMHO. | ||
| Eric N (Eric_n) New Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2004 |
"Grand Dragon 10th Degree Black Belt of Cheap Fuckery" That is just plain funny. I do however, agree, that you can get by just fine with craftsman or husky for general tools but, don't skimp on the precision stuff and get a high quality tool whether new, used, or borrowed from a friend ( just make sure to give it back to your friend when your done with it ). | ||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 526 Registered: 11-2002 |
Eric , this gos on and on and on downa slippery slope (As John well knows). When John first asked me about tools and what to buy I gave him some semi short but affective answers. John is obviously a smart guy and a very logical thinker therefore he ran away with the whole thing and it seems to have opened a whole new door for him. John is so turned on by snap on for reasons that most wont know until they run into it first hand. Have to cut themselves , bleed , curse , break shit and round shit off. As a rule people think that fucking things up from time to time (Including yourself) is the norm when doing mechanical work. This is true to some extent but companies like Snap On pay people big dollars to make that extent smaller and smaller. AS a result , things are just easier and when they are easier they are more apt to be done right. This can go all the way down to a screwdriver (Anti camouts) not completely fucking up a silly dumb ass little screw you are trying to remove or replace. The fasteners on your truck will suffer wear from your maintenance. The more affective the tools you use are , the less this wear will be and the more affective these fasteners will be. I realize thta everyone doesnt have the cash to go hog wild on expensive tools but there are SO many alternatives to walking on the snap on truck these days its just silly not to get the right tool for the job. I have always advocated getting a giant set of craftsman or whatever just to get something in hand just in case. But realizing that these wont really get the job done well and pahsing them out as money permits is always what I preach.. Items that need to be precise should never be skimped on. The money is in the accuracy , this is true of all instruments. If it aint accurate , why have it ? Just shoot for ball park and call it good.. Kyle "Blow me" | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 754 Registered: 03-2003 |
Dean, let's compare some of your conflicting statements. We'll call this one Statement A: "My $50 torque wrench has done me well over several years despite a shit load of abuse." You made Statement A to show just how husky your Husky torque wrench is even after your claimed years of shit loads of use. Now let's compare Statement A to Statement B: "No, I do not check the torque calibration. As I said, the tool doesn't get used that much to warrent it" Statement A and Statement B don't quite jive, do they? When it serves your purpose and you want to prove how husky your Husky wrench is, you claim you have explosed it to shitloads of abuse for several years and it's still going strong. Then, Paul takes your statement at face value and asks if you have ever calibrated your Husky torque wrench. Then you give your conflicting statement that the Husky doesn't get used that much. Which is it? Were you lying then or are you lying now? Here's another example of your cheap fuck doubletalk. Take a look at Statement 2: "The guy [Adam] can buy what he wants, dosn't bother me in the slightest." You say this in response to Leo's contention that you suffer from a tool inferiority complex. Leo accuses you of suffering from Tool Envy and in reponse you feign indifference. But Statement 2 doesn't quite jive with your previous statement, the statement that started this entire thing. Let's call that Statement 1. Here it is: "Jeez does it always have to be Snapon? You can pick up a similar thing of SAME stated accuracy at sears or home depot or anywhere like that for a fifth of that price." Are these the words of someone who is not bothered in the slightest? You remind me of Jimmyg or Carter Simcoe. Both of them changed their song and dance to suit the circumstances, just as you're doing now. And both of them were stupid enough to believe that others would believe what are obviously lies. | ||
| Eric N (Eric_n) New Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2004 |
Kyle, I totally agree with you on that. I used to work at a Mobil station when I was in highschool and for a little while after that. All the Mechs. there used Snap-On and I would love to have some of the tools and tool boxes that those guys spent biggggg money on. Snap-On is crack. I know it's crack and the guy who pulled up every Friday on payday with his nice truck knew it was crack too. I bought what I could afford at the time and that was mostly Craftsman and some Husky wrenches (I like the smooth finish better then that ridged Craftsman style). I then started going down the slippery slope of crack buying but, my life has changed and I can't spend money on tools like I could before. So when one of my cheap-o's break I replace it with a Snap-On. | ||
| Jack Parker (Jack) Senior Member Username: Jack Post Number: 270 Registered: 03-2002 |
Have a Craftsman TW break for no apparent reason? I have....tried to return it, only to find out there was no warranty after 90 days. Conversations with Snap-on reps at some point will include the statement "..well (insert your name here) is there anything I need to take care of for you?" Have a broken Snap-on TW? At this point your rep will give you a free replacement, or a loaner until yours is repaired. To answer the original question, I like this one: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=66659&group_ID= 17226&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog First, Snap-on has been discounting by $50 as a special. Second, it's got a nice torque range and 3/8" is a good starter size. Third, the flex head is a nice feature. Fourth, use a Snap-on tool once in a really tough situation, and you'll want to throw away your Craftsman (of which I own a lot, and can't afford to throw away). | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1267 Registered: 02-2002 |
John, You know, I dunno why you have to resort to personal insults all the time, I hear so many good things about you from other people, and yet on this site you come across as a fucking arrogant and condescending bastard. You really don't have to resort to insults to prove your point. We have a difference in opinion, and I can live with that. In fact I might even take you up on this one day and buy myself a snap-on, who knows. I doubt there's a single person on this site who doesn't know your snap-on collection. I'm sure its you #1 passtime, so you have to admit that you are kinda biased toward them, even to the extent of excluding out most everything else. But just like everything else, once guys opinion may not fit with everyone else's. So please, lets agree to disagree once again. I know some people will be happy as a hog in shit with their huskeys, just like I am, and for such people then I stand by my recommendations. To the others, buy a snap-on, its up to you to decide. Its not the end of the world if you do end up wasting $50 on a lesser model, if you start doing more advanced mechanics or for whatever reason. And I'm really not a cheap bastard, like you have repeatedly stated over and over again. I make things like sliders and skid plates and risers and bumpers and laptop mounts because I LOVE working on such things, not to save money, although that does help pay for the tools. So before you refer to me in that way again, have something to back yourself up with ok? Peace Dean | ||
| Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Senior Member Username: Jsq Post Number: 528 Registered: 10-2002 |
just a friendly reminder that there is more out there than snap-on http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?&SKU=FS312 i said "more" not "cheaper"! | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2353 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jack P, I have never used a digital Q wrench. Very nice concept though.... Damn Jack Q, that is some gourmet shit. Seriously though, that pivot knob on the end.....Good concept, but it looks like it would get in the the way. But damn, noted an accuracy of 99.76% at 50 Nm! | ||
| Jack Parker (Jack) Senior Member Username: Jack Post Number: 271 Registered: 03-2002 |
Paul, I bought the digital because I needed a 1/2" drive, and the rep only had the Techwrench. Told me to use it that week, and next week exchange it. Well, after using it - I kept it. It quickly changes units and settings, and it displays the actual recorded torque. So, if you set it for 103 ft/lb, and as you reach 103 it will alarm to tell you. But...it also shows how much torque was actually applied when you stopped pulling, which is usually 105~107 ft./lb. So, you loosen and start again until you stop dead on 103 ft/lb. Do I need anything that accurate - no, but do I love it - yes. I've compared it to my 3/8" drive clicker and w/o fail, the clicker results in 5-10 extra ft/lbs reading after the click. For everyday, long term use I have no idea how this electronic device would compare to a mechanical one. I'm sure it's been tested to the ends of the earth or they wouldn't put it on the market. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 756 Registered: 03-2003 |
"In fact I might even take you up on this one day and buy myself a snap-on, who knows." Yeah, let us know when you get it. That'll be the day. Jack & Paul, that Techwrench is really cool. I used to hate it because of the way it looks, but the more you play with it, the nicer it gets. And that 5-100 ft. lbs. torque range is just incredible I think. The Techwrench also reads in foot pounds, inch pounds, and Newton meters, so using it is much easier. Setting the torque setting on it is really easy. No need to pull and twist or anything. Just push the arrow buttons and start wrenching. And when you're done there's no need to set the wrench back to zero before storing it. When you reach the set torque, the Techwrench has an audible beep and a tactile vibration. The DVD playing in the drug truck shows a dragster mechanic rebuilding an engine. The guy is surrounded by revving engines and he's wearing ear protection, but he can feel the Techwrench reach its preset torque. Our drug dealer let me test this once by blasting the stereo inside the drug truck and letting me play with the Techwrench. It's pretty cool. I doubt I'll never be around dragster engines, but I could use the Techwrench at the rifle range if I can ever afford that Accuracy International AWP I have my eye on (inch pounds for the telescope mounts and 100 ft. lbs. for swapping the barrels). I'm just waiting for the Techwrench to go on promo again and I'll probably snap it up. Yes, I'm a cheap fuck too. | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 426 Registered: 10-2002 |
You people are a bad influence... Intrigued by all the techwrench talk, I somehow found myself during lunch break in the snap-on truck today to check one out. While playing with it I found myself having the same familiar emotional reaction I get at the Porsche dealer, at the AI dealer, and at the Audi dealer while sitting in the new S4 (340 hp, 6 speed, etc. etc.) The dealer showed me through his van and the local snap-on store and introduced me to his boss, the top crack dealer. I ended up walking out with the techwrench and order several other items I "needed" now but did not need several minutes before. My AI savings account is now over $400 less than before...  | ||
| Jack Parker (Jack) Senior Member Username: Jack Post Number: 273 Registered: 03-2002 |
LOL. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 760 Registered: 03-2003 |
Awesome. Congrats on the purchase. That AI will be awesome too. http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/NewPictures008b.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/Picture033b.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/Picture032b.jpg Just imagine wrenching on this thing with that Techwrench. Holy shit. What a joy. Heck, I'd buy a complete set of mini Snap-on tools just for that rifle alone. | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 427 Registered: 10-2002 |
Damn you John Lee... I would be closer to that now if not for you and Jack. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 762 Registered: 03-2003 |
Greg, which AI model and caliber are you thinking of? | ||
| Ray Wallace (Rayd2) New Member Username: Rayd2 Post Number: 31 Registered: 05-2003 |
John Lee, that is one sweet-looking weapon. Are you former Marine scout/sniper, or just a shooter? Awesome piece. Ray | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 428 Registered: 10-2002 |
I want the non-folding AI AW338 w/adjust cheekpiece, AI bipod (do not like cheap harris), and I'll probably start with the S&B 10x42 scope. I have thought about going with the 308 w/26" barrel but after shooting 338 the range is incredible and trajectory relatively flat so I'm sold. My NY resolution is to have one in 04. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 764 Registered: 03-2003 |
A former USMC Scout Sniper? Me? LOL. No way. Those dudes are BAD ASS. I just enjoy shooting. Greg, that set-up you describe above sounds really nice. I would add the folding stock option to your specs though. The AW is difficult to clean without the folding stock. The comb is high enough (even non the non-adjustable comb models) that it's hard to clean from the breech. The adjustable comb models require you to remove the cheekpiece to clean from the breech. Obviously, this can get annoying. My friend's AWM in the pics above had to be cleaned from the muzzle. Not a big deal but not as nice as cleaning from the breech. I have never shot a .338 Lapua. Closest I've shot was a .338 Win Mag, and it had enough recoil for me that I don't think I could place shots exactly where I wanted. My dream Artic Warfare is the AWP model in .308, with the folding buttstock but with fixed comb. I also want the AW's non-threaded-type muzzle brake threaded onto the end of the AWP's 24" heavy barrel. Parker-Hale bipod. Schmidt und Bender telescope, probably the Pro Hunter model with target knobs, mil-dot reticle, and adjustable parallel. I hate those 36mm tubed models with giant ass target knobs. They look like sex toys or something. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 766 Registered: 03-2003 |
Greg, Here are some more AI pics to motivate you to reach your 04 resolution: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/Picture036b.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/Picture030b.jpg (200 yard groups as seen through my friend's 20x varmint telescope) http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/beach.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/folded.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/green.jpg (note the green S&B telescope) http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/knobs.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/knobs1.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/knobs2.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/L96.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/L115.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/loading.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/march.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/mesh.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/miles.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/parallax.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/prone.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/side.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/sniper.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/SuB.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/tape.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/unload.jpg (I compiled these pics just in case EE ever becomes an AI dealer. ) | ||
| Chris W. (Dcwhybrew) Member Username: Dcwhybrew Post Number: 135 Registered: 05-2003 |
John, that's a sharp rifle. Here are a couple of dumb questions since I haven't ever seen one before: 1) who makes it (is AI the manufacturer?), 2) where can you find them (gun shows, gun stores, catalog, etc. etc.), and 3) is it .308 (that's what the cartridges look like in the picture)? Thanks! Chris | ||
| Eric N (Eric_n) New Member Username: Eric_n Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2004 |
AI = Accuracy International and yes they are the manufacturer. I happen to like the AW50 myself. | ||
| Chris W. (Dcwhybrew) Member Username: Dcwhybrew Post Number: 136 Registered: 05-2003 |
Thanks Eric | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 767 Registered: 03-2003 |
Chris, All of those rifles are from Accuracy International, but there are several different models and calibers shown in those pics. This one is AI's AWM (Arctic Warfare Magnum) model, chambered in .300 Win Mag and fitted with Hensoldt 10x42 telescope: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/Picture036b.jpg These are the older AI PM (Precision Magazine), adopted by the UK as the L96: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/side.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/beach.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/L96.jpg The PM is the predecessor to AI's current line of Arctic Warfare models and lacks the ice/carbon/dirt relief cuts on the bolt, as well as having numerous other different features. And conversely, the PM has many features the AW rifles do not, such as integral bipods and reserve metallic sights. The PM is chambered for .308. Those photos above show the Schmidt & Bender 10x42 telescope, which was standard issue on the PM's. Here is a closeup of a PM with the 10x42 S&B telescope: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/SuB.jpg The 10x42 featured a 30mm tube and the older-style target knobs, which are slimmer and more elegant than the new, pimp daddy 34mm tubes and oversized target knobs that S&B and AI now as standard to their current line of police/military telescopes. This is a PM with the newer Schmidt & Bender with the pimp knobs: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/mesh.jpg That telescope looks to be a 3-12X Schmidt & Bender Precision Marksman model with AI target knobs and adjustable parallax. This a folding version of the AWM, adopted by the UK as the L115: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/folded.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/L115.jpg This rifle is fitted with the same telescope as pictured above, but without parallax adjustment. The L115 is chambered for .338 Lapua. You can see what .338 Lapua rounds look like here: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/knobs2.jpg You can see the single-magazine magazine and the large size of the .338 Lapua rounds. The pistol is a Browning Hi-Power. The Arctic Warfare models lack an integral bipod and accept the quickly detachable Parker-Hale bipod, shown here: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shooting/prone.jpg The older PM's had a much nicer bipod similar to the American Harris but integrated with the forend portion of the rifle's chassis. AI's Arctic Warfire line includes the AW (Arctic Warfare), AWP (Arctic Warfare Police), AWM (Arctic Warfare Magnum), AWS (Arctic Warfare Suppressed), and AW50 (AW in .50 BMG chambering). AI also makes a line of cheaper rifles called the AE, as well as chassis-style stocks for Remington 700 short and long actions called the AICS. These are for users who want some of the advantages of the Arctic Warfare but can't afford to pay for the Arctic Warfare ($$$$$$$$). These fake AW systems are very usable but don't hold a candle to the real deal Arctic Warfare. | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 429 Registered: 10-2002 |
Fortunately John is NOT an AI dealer or I would probably be broke... | ||
| Chris W. (Dcwhybrew) Member Username: Dcwhybrew Post Number: 137 Registered: 05-2003 |
Yeah, no kidding...I just checked out the prices from some of the dealers. Now I see where Rover maintenance can get in the way of an AI purchase. AIs appear to be excellent weapons, it's now on my list to buy...boy is my wife going to be pissed! HA! | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1060 Registered: 05-2002 |
Good Gawd. I just passed up the last half of this thread. Better to post my experience. I have one of them fancy Sears Craftsman "Professional" 1/2 torque wrenches. I have had it for about 10 years - back to a time when they guaranteed their tools for life. I have used it maybe ten times for a total of about 40 torques. Long story short, I went to use it a few weeks ago and it would not adjust at all. The dial turned without engagement. I tried to take it back and Sears now says that they do not warranty precision tools. Since I have lost the reciept many years ago I cannot prove that this wrench was bought when they had a decent warranty. Two lessons learned: Do not buy Craftsman (they had the same answer over a new failed 3/8 ratchet), and save your reciepts regardless of the brand. I have never heard of this crap from Snap-On. My next 1/2 torque wrench will be Snap-On because of this. Dean - like the guy posted above, he just wants to know the difference. Is this difference something you want to find out at a critical moment 10 years from now or would you rather have a useful tool for life? IMO -C | ||
| John Roche (Jroc) Member Username: Jroc Post Number: 214 Registered: 08-2002 |
Hey Curtis, So you're not completely SOL (Shit Outta Luck) try exchaging it at Home Depot or Lowes. I've heard that either will replace a broken craftsman for there house brand, to get people to try there brand. Not sure if this is true but worth a try. Very competative market now with HD and Lowes getting into the picture so not too farfetched. Good Luck and keep us posted as to what they say. | ||
| Ray Wallace (Rayd2) New Member Username: Rayd2 Post Number: 34 Registered: 05-2003 |
John Lee, great pics of the AI's. I was off firing mine this weekend or would have complimented you sooner. Arent't they smooth to operate, with reasonable recoil. Great accuracy, too, after you get them zeroed in. Glad you have good taste in weapons as well as tools. Ray | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 1061 Registered: 05-2002 |
John, I truly appreciate the suggestion, and I think some of the curent Husky tools at HD are much better that Crapsman. Still, Snap-On or Matco would have solved this problem from the beginning so that is where my money and time will go next. For now, the Crapsman 1/2" torque make a great braker bar since ite handle is nearly 24" in length -C | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 769 Registered: 03-2003 |
Ray, Yeah, the Arctic Warfare is just unreal. I really want one, but as with most things that I want, I can't afford it. So the AI will have to wait until EE hits the big time. | ||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have been avoiding this thread for a while, but finally got round to reading the latest. I hate to add more fuel to the fire, and readily admit that I would be very pleased to have a workshop full of Snap-on tools, but... 1. I was amused to see the specification for the electronic torque wrench from Snap-On. Great for the workshop, bloody useless for the trail. Go check out the environmentals on it -- you are out of spec if you use it in even fairly mild cold weather, and if you get it really cold it may not even work when you need it. By all means I would like a Snap-on wrench, but I'll take the mechanical one methinks. 2. Rhetoric aside, there are fundamentally different reasons for using a torque wrench. One reason might be to repeatably, accurately and precisely torque something. Then you may reasonably need the high quality tool. Another might be to learn to accurately but not precisely torque something. Here a low quality but calibrated from factory wrench seems to me to work just fine, albeit with more caveats that you have to bear in mind. This way, one can perfectly well become familiar with the ballpark of what the right torque feels like, and can have a high degree of confidence that one has exceeded a certain minimum torque and not overtorqued by an order of magnitude. This is probably less accurate than a trained mechanic's arm and sensory system attached to a normal fixed wrench. However, I am not a trained mechanic, and need to learn what the appropriate torques feel like. Absent some kind of enforced moderation, I would be liable to torque things until they sheared or stress fractured or... Having the opportunity to learn to feel when I am within the ballpark is a good thing. Let's face it, (I will lay long odds) the reason the tire wrench that comes with the vehicle is so short is that they engineered it such that the torque resultant from an 80kg human stepping on the end of the thing will not unduly overtorque a wheel nut. Indeed, to suggest that for 99% of the jobs I (or other mechanic newbies) will be doing that the torque is so critical as to need a recently calibrated high grade electronic torque wrench implies either a huge overestimation of my mechanical competencies (thanks!!!) or a woefully under-engineered system being torqued. If fasteners are so under-specified or the fastened assemblies so poorly designed as to fail when subject to even slightly deviant torque settings then I would argue that the system in question itself is fundamentally under-engineered. | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 732 Registered: 02-2003 |
I don't think you or anyone will be rebuilding cylinder heads on the trail anytime soon, so that electronic wrench is primarily for the workshop. I doubt that you will even need a torque wrench for anything that is likely to break on the trail. - Axel | ||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2003 |
Fair enough. Talking of which, I was working on my vehicle for several hours in my "workshop" ...err... driveway early this past Saturday morning and I think the ambient was about 8 deg F. I finally gave up because the PVC on my old wiring was too damn stiff and I didn't want to fracture it. I really must find a cheap (stocking) distributor of marine/aviation grade electrical wire and stop using crap from Home Depot. Primary wire / battery cable with PTFE double insulation with 30AWG stranded tinned copper... yeah, yeah, Raychem's another variant on the crack dealer theme. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 973 Registered: 08-2002 |
Actually there are a few things I desire to torque accurately on the trail. - Axle bolts (those 5 things on the center of the hub) - Transmission fluid plug - Lugs Note that I said desire rather than need, so I guess I would agree with you Axel. However with that said, I still think it is NBD to carry a decent torque wrench on the trail. My best one at present is husky it goes everywhere. When I get a chance, I'll go get a snap on and keep it in the shop and husky will then have permanent location in Disco toolkit. |
