| Author | Message | ||
     Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1232 Registered: 02-2002 |
Does anyone recommend a good tool they've used that does a decent job at removing and refitting tired over the rim? Thanks Dean | ||
| Bill Bettridge (Billb) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Billb Post Number: 1348 Registered: 02-2002 |
Dean - based on your previous post about getting sand in the bead - the best thing IMo is a high-lift. It breaks a bead easily, allowing you to clean it out. As long as you have a high volume of air (powertank or good compressor), you can then reseat the bead. I've used mine both on trail and at home to get rocks, mud, sticks, etc out of bead. Bill | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1233 Registered: 02-2002 |
Bill - I was thinking about getting the tire over at least one side of the rim, so that I can clean it out inside. Both recent times now its got full of sand and mud, and it really needs to be rinsed out somehow, instead of just putting it back on and hoping there's no sand in the bead. So I'm looking for either good tire levers or some other contraption that can help get the tire off. Thanks for the high-lift tip though. | ||
| David T (David_t) New Member Username: David_t Post Number: 9 Registered: 04-2003 |
try, www.tyrepliers.com.au | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 667 Registered: 05-2003 |
uh oh, I'm beginning to think my idea of cleaning out my tire and wheel might have some holes in it. For some reason, I've been thinking that as soon as I let all the air out and break the bead that the tire will just fall right off the wheel so I could scrub the mud out of them. Dean, you might find this funny - I was going to do that this past weekend. On a previous post about tires, someone said that you could break the bead on the trail by running over the tire. With that in mind, I thought I'd try that at home - sure sounded like an easier way to get the job done without using highlift jack. I'm glad I thought it thru instead of just taking my tire off to try it. It suddenly occured to me that with my tire off, I wouldn't be able to drive my truck over the removed tire/wheel to break the bead. Duh!!  I wish you were closer, we could have a group project!! | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1241 Registered: 02-2002 |
Well you could put the spare on, or get someone else to drive over it. Where are you then? I'm in NJ. | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 692 Registered: 05-2003 |
Dean, My dealership found someone offsite that could break down my tire. I went with them so that I could watch. Now HERE is a great tire changing set-up, but I don't think anyone could carry it on the trail!! I thought it was so neat that I grabbed my camera.   My tire is all fixed and as good as new. The bead was full of grungy dried muck, he took a wire brush to it with LOTS of elbow grease, it was a mess, hard to get it off. Took pics for you since this is what you will probably see when you break yours down.   Check out this nifty tool that works much better than a bottle jack. My truck appeared to be more stable on it than on bottle jack too. It lifted truck very quickly! Jamie  | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1269 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jamie, yeah you can pick up one of those tire changers at harbor freight for a couple of thousand! And a couple more for the electronic balancer. Probably much more for a good one too. Nice tires! Dean | ||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 168 Registered: 02-2003 |
If you are worried about balance you should really check into Equal. No more ugly weights or rubbing them off. No more waiting to get them balanced even if its free with the tires. I think they save a lot of headaches. -Leo | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 694 Registered: 05-2003 |
I forgot to add that I watched him take the lug nuts off WITH an AIR impact wrench. Seems like I spent the entire day asking questions about tools, and now I might be more confused than ever(?) It was his opinion that an air tool is the ONLY way to go. He said that other power sources can't provide the benefits and the "umpf" that air tools do. It really was quite impressive when he removed lug nuts with an AIR impact wrench. 15 seconds max from start to finish - and the lug nuts were sitting in an organized group on the floor. | ||
| Tim '92 RR (Snowman) Senior Member Username: Snowman Post Number: 640 Registered: 12-2002 |
Jamie- The Nascar guys are even quicker! I am not into the Nascar scene but it just amazes me to watch the pit crews doing their job. It's like mechanical ballet. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Dweb Lounge Member Username: V22guy Post Number: 2356 Registered: 02-2002 |
As opposed to what? Throwing them in the trash.....? | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 699 Registered: 05-2003 |
As opposed to my novice methods. I frequently have to stop mid-point in removing (other) parts to chase down something that is rolling away and going down the driveway | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1270 Registered: 02-2002 |
As opposed to dropping them in the mud-hole I'm working in, or the quick-sand, or just plain getting them stuck in the socket and putting them back on to the threads to break them out! | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 722 Registered: 02-2003 |
That's why you need the proper sized Snap-On socket, Dean! - Axel | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 723 Registered: 02-2003 |
But really now, what does putting the lugnuts on the floor in an organized manner have to do with using an air wrench? - Axel | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 700 Registered: 05-2003 |
My Trust and Their Skill I have a tendency to not trust mechanics who can't keep their workspace neat and organized as they are working | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 724 Registered: 02-2003 |
I agree with that, a clean workspace is an indication of a good shop, but what does that have to do with using an air wrench? I still don't see the connection. - Axel | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 470 Registered: 02-2002 |
hmm axel, it's a jamie thing. you wouldn't understand. Ho Chung | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 702 Registered: 05-2003 |
You probably won't see one. That was the first and only time that I have ever seen an impact wrench in operation. I was pretty darn impressed by it. My head tech, the snap on guy, and the tire guy all agreed adamantly that I did not need an impact wrench. Also, that if I did ever need one, that I would only be satisfied with an AIR impact wrench. I guess I need to trust them on this one because even though "I think" I will never own an air compressor, I did think for many years that I would never want a truck (let alone work on it too!) I got my days mixed up that the snap on guy goes to my dealership, but I was able to hook up with him after I left the dealership. He only had a 24" soft grip breaker bar on his truck (I don't think that will fit in my toolbox). If I email his wife today, he can have the 18" soft grip breaker bar SN18B for me next week along with the IM340 shallow 1 1/6" socket. Just to make sure: those are the sizes I need aren't they? I asked him about manual torque wrenches and I am so confused that my head is spinning. I need to put some effort into understand the differences between 1/2" tools and 3/8" tools. For some totally unknown reason, I had made a note to myself that I needed 1/2" size, but the snap on guy said no, that he has been selling me 3/8" size (I only have a few) so I need to stick with that - because adapters from 1/2" to 3/8" will weaken a connection. For sure, I'm clueless. I need to find a book called "Tools For Dummies" if someone has been smart enough to write one, and read all about 1/2" 3/8", 6 point, and 12 point. If someone would confirm (at your convenience) that the 2 parts that I can get from him are what I need, I will order them from his wife. At least that will up my odds at successfully removing my tire by myself on the trail. For sure, that looks stronger to stand on and jump on it than the "stock" lug nut remover bar. Thanks again for all your help, Jamie | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 725 Registered: 02-2003 |
About 1/4", which incidentally is another common size. - Axel | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 758 Registered: 03-2003 |
Jaime, Here is the socket you need: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?search=true&item_ID=3491&PartNo=im340 &group_id=399&store=snapon-store&tool=all Take a look at the specs. Read the specs. Study the specs. The specs list this socket as 1/2" drive. This means a 3/8" drive ratchet will not fit this socket without an adapter. The size you need is 1 and 1/16". Snap-on does not make 3/8" drive impact sockets this large. The last thing I want to do is confuse you, but here is an alternative socket: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?search=true&item_ID=3559&PartNo=imfs3 40&group_id=403&store=snapon-store&tool=all This socket is identical to the socket above but has thinner walls (1/8" thinner outer diameter). It really won't matter which of the two sockets you get, as the Land Rover alloys provide plenty of socket clearance and this is isn't an issue at all with steel wheels. For the new soft grip breaker bar, here is the part number: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/search.asp?partno=shbb24&searchTrnsfr=true&search _type=Part&store=snapon-store That is a new item in the Snap-on catalog and on the trucks, so it is not yet on the website. But the part number is correct. This breaker bar has a 1/2" anvil, so it fits the 1/2" drive impact sockets listed above. No adapter necessary. If it matters to you, the soft grip handle comes in red, yellow, or green trim. The main portion of the rubber handle is black. Snap-on may have an 18" soft grip breaker bar, but there is nothing listed in the latest Snap-on catalog. Ask your Snap-on guy if there is an 18" long version of the SHBB24. For most people, I usually recommend the 18" breaker bar, because this is usually enough to remove even the most stubborn nuts. For you, I'm going to recommend the 24" bar because of the greater leverage it provides. The longer bar is harder to store and can be harder to use in tight spaces because of its enormous length, but I'm guessing you'll need the extra leverage the 24" bar provides. I think this combination will serve you well. | ||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1272 Registered: 02-2002 |
Actually 1/8", but who's measuring? | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 726 Registered: 02-2003 |
Depends on if you are talking cheap chinese or Snap-On. - Axel | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 707 Registered: 05-2003 |
John Lee, Thank you, I just looked at those and will study further. I will get the breaker bar you suggested. Now I have to say thanks again because your post is proof that you know what you are talking about. The snap on guy told me that he did not think I would be able to get the lug nuts off with an 18" bar. He thought I needed to get the 24" one too. He said he would ONLY order the 18" for me after I checked to make sure that was what I needed. He wouldn't listen to me even when I insisted that I was supposed to get the 18". He kept telling me that he was not going to sell me something that wouldn't work. Thanks again for your help, Jamie | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 759 Registered: 03-2003 |
Your Snap-on guy sounds like a nice guy. Keep his number on file. | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 710 Registered: 05-2003 |
Thanks, I do. He is very nice and also very patient. He wrote his phone number in my catalogs and price lists so that I don't lose them. Having bright color choices on tools helps me to not lose them and leave them behind I have just two more questions, then I think I will be able to study about tools without asking any more questions (at least for awhile anyway). I'll do my best to ask them in a way that you can understand (I hope). I know what I need to get for easier tire changing, so I'm a-ok there. I am attempting to understand the "big picture" when choosing tools and attachments for choosing everything including rachets and sockets. 1) Regarding 1/2" versus 3/8": What is the base item that the choice of 1/2" or 3/8" is based on? (for example, if one is building a sandwich one needs to decide which kind of bread to build it on - one would get into trouble starting to stack all the ingredients on top of each other and try to put the bread on after that) 2) Regarding 6 point vs 12 point: It looks like 12 point will work on things that require either a 12 point OR a 6 point. Is that correct? (for example, if one chooses a knife that has a combo blade, one would be able to use it on surfaces that required a flat blade OR things that required a serrated blade) Thanks in advance, Jamie | ||
| Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Moderator Username: Axel Post Number: 728 Registered: 02-2003 |
1/2 inch, 3/8 inch and so on when talking about sockets and wrenches refers to the size of the square hole in the socket and the size of the square peg on the wrench that you attach the socket to. At 12 point socket will fit a 6 point nut, but a correctly shaped 6 point socket will fit the nut better, and is less likely to strip it. Get a correctly sized 6 point socket for your wheel nuts. As for the big nut between the seat and the steering wheel, get whatever fits, and whichever color you like.... - Axel | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 763 Registered: 03-2003 |
"What is the base item that the choice of 1/2" or 3/8" is based on?" Well, I would say that you really need both 3/8" and 1/2" tools in your box. Your wheel lug nut socket is a good example. Even if you wanted a 3/8" drive 17/16" socket, you couldn't get one. So, obviously, you will need at least some 1/2" drive pieces. Buying sockets is where things can get ugly, especially with Snap-on. Snap-on sockets are really expensive. Of course everything from Snap-on is expensive, but this is not as much of a problem on things like torque wrenches or ratchets or breaker because you don't need that many of them. But if you want a workable tool set, you will need lots and lots of sockets to make things work. And that will add up to serious money. I would say there are two primary factors in deciding between 3/8" and 1/2". One is the weight and size of the pieces. 3/8" stuff is much lighter and handier to use and much less tiring than 1/2" drive stuff. Compare these two sockets: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/snap-on/DSC06575.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/snap-on/DSC06576.jpg The socket on the left looks so much smaller than the socket on the right, but both sockets are 1/2" size sockets (that is, they will fit 1/2" size fasteners). The socket on the left is a 3/8" drive and the socket on the is a 1/2" drive, but both are 1/2" size 12-point shallow sockets. Compare these two ratchets: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/snap-on/DSC05727.jpg Both are locking flex ratchets. Working with that 1/2" drive ratchet on the right would quickly tire you. And it would start to annoy you very quickly in confined spaces and could even become unworkable because of the length. That 1/2" drive ratchet is 18" long, as long as a standard 1/2" drive breaker bar. Of course there are smaller ratchets in 1/2" size, but they are still larger and heavier than equivalent 3/8" ratchets. You really do need at least some 3/8" and 1/2" pieces, but I would recommend limitng your 1/2" drive to your breaker bar and wheel impact socket for the time being and build a workable 3/8" drive set. Then, if you feel you need more, start building a 1/2" drive set. 3/8" drive pieces are really a happy medium. They are not so small that they are limited to motorcycle or gun work, but they are not so large that you tire quickly using them. 3/8" also has the largest selection of ratchets: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/snap-on/DSC06643.jpg I doubt you will need all of those ratchets, but they are there if you do. The ratchet selection in 1/2" drive is much less. Those ratchets pictured above are all 3/8" drive. "It looks like 12 point will work on things that require either a 12 point OR a 6 point. Is that correct?" Yes, this is correct. But as Axel pointed out, the 12-point sockets do not fit the 6-pointed fasteners as well and thus are more likely to round a very tight or corroded fastener than a six-point socket is. However, this is much less of a problem with Snap-on sockets than with other sockets, for several reasons. Snap-on sockets, though thinner in profile and able to reach into tight spaces better than chubby/cheapo sockets, are stronger than cheapo sockets like Craftsman and Husky and flex radially outward under load much less than cheapo sockets do. And Snap-on 12-point sockets feature the Flank Drive principle that drives the fastener on the fastener's flats rather than on its points. Also, Snap-on sockets are built to better tolerances than cheapo sockets and thus fit the fasteners much tighter and better to begin with. These three advantages have a synergistic relationship and together they give you much more cranking power and make rounding fasteners much less common than with inferior 12-point designs like Husky and Craftsman. No matter what the wishful thinkers like Dean Brown say or think, there is a difference. I think for your general use, a 12-point socket set will be fine. 12-point is generally easier to use, as it's much easier to align the socket with the fastener (correct fit every 30 degrees instead of 60 degrees for the six-point socket). There are also a handful of 12-point fasteners on your vehicle (such as your brake caliper bolts) and you will need 12-point sockets for those fasteners. Buying 12-point as a starter set will give you more versatility than a six-point set would. These are nice 3/8" starter sets: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?search=true&item_ID=1576&PartNo=211fd sy&group_id=245&store=snapon-store&tool=all http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_det.asp?search=true&item_ID=1578&PartNo=212fm sy&group_id=246&store=snapon-store&tool=all Those are the 12-point, chrome, SEMI-deep, 3/8" drive sockets. Semi-deep splits the difference in socket height between dedicated shallow and deep sockets. 3/8" shallow is too shallow for general use. A shallow 3/8" socket is very shallow and has enough room for a nut and the ratchet's anvil. If there is even a little amount of bolt sticking out of a nut, the 3/8" shallow socket will be too shallow to engage the nut fully. Get the semi-deep sockets in 3/8" for your starter set. The socket sizes in those sets are also very usable, I think. The SAE set goes from 1/4" to 7/8" and the metric set goes from 8mm to 19mm. That is a very usable range. You're unlikely to deal with 1" or larger fasteners unless you start tearing apart bigger stuff, which I doubt you will do. And your 17/16" requirement for the wheel lugs has already been taken of. You will need ratchets to drive those sockets. For ratchets, I have three favorite 3/8" drive ratchets. First is that 3/8" locking flex ratchet pictured above. This is easily my favorite ratchet and the one I reach for most of the time. It's as long as 3/8" breaker bar and so it gives plenty of leverage. The head flexes but also locks in place at a fixed angle if I want. I can also unlock the head completely so that the head flex freely if I want it to. That locking flex ratchet provides plenty of cranking power but it is often too big and cumbersome to use in confined areas. My second favorite 3/8" drive ratchet is this stubby ratchet: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/snap-on/DSC06505.jpg This is a very small ratchet and takes care of lots of jobs that would otherwise require a 1/4" drive set. The handle has a very comfortable shape and the head flexes to conform to your hand while working and/or help you in confined work spaces. The ratchet is small enough to fit inside your hand: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/snap-on/DSC06508.jpg Another favorite 3/8" drive ratchet is the soft grip palm ratchet: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/snap-on/DSC06481.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/snap-on/DSC06480.jpg This palm ratchet is 3/8" drive and will accept all of your 3/8" sockets. It also makes a handy T driver when fitted with this 1/4" size magnetic hex bit holder: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/snap-on/DSC06478.jpg You already have the Blue-Point 1/4" size screwdriver bits, and you can use this palm ratchet and magnetic bit holder with your screwdriver bits. You can generate more power with a palm ratchet than you can with standard screwdrivers. This palm ratchet will do double-duty as both a palm ratchet and a very nice supplement to your soft-grip ratcheting screwdrivers: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/snap-on/DSC06491.jpg The locking flex and stubby ratchets are sealed. The palm ratchet is not and will require you to lubricate it on a regular basis for it to provide good service. Well, there is a decent starter set. Combine the stuff above with your 17/16" impact socket and your 24" soft grip breaker bar, and you are off to a good start. Of course you're going to need ratchet extensions and wrenches and so on. All of this stuff is expensive, so consider your purchases carefully. Don't just throw money a the Snap-on guy, however nice he is to you. Buy as you need, not as you want. Also, there is no discount on Snap-on items for buying in sets rather than in individual pieces. So buy only as you need. | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 711 Registered: 05-2003 |
Too funny!! Cool, thanks for the good explanation. I am getting the dedicated size for the wheel nut. I might go with yellow since my racheting screwdriver is green. Can you believe that I did not know it racheted (I didn't know what that word meant even though it was part of the item description) and used it for a long time just like a regular screwdrive. By luck, I saw the arrows on it and turned them to see what happened. I just thought that was too cool!! Your explanation helped alot. Since I have learned this week that an impact wrench would help with my odds and ends projects, someday I just might retire my drill and get one (not real soon though). When that day comes, I'd to hate to shoot myself in the foot by buying tools that would not work together when my skills increase (and I graduate to bigger rover stuff?) Your info will give me a better understanding and also help me to follow and understand tool posts so that I can learn more. When I graduate to the bigger stuff, I hope to have made intellegent choices for the smaller stuff I have needed along the way - so that it will all end up working together (especially since I'm on the slow and steady plan for tool acquisition). So I guess overall that means that you start with your vehicle, you find out what the nuts sizes are in it as the "base" starting point, then choose the wrenches (including torque and impact) that fit the nuts. Thanks so much, Jamie | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 712 Registered: 05-2003 |
Thanks John Lee, I just read your post when I uploaded mine. Thanks!! That makes sense and I will take a close look at all of those things and continue to purchase slowly only as I need the items (as I was advised). I'm sticking with the snap on, even if I will need to do without certain sizes when I start on socket purchases. I have already found out the hard way that when I put craftsman sockets on my little snap on wrench, they are almost impossible to remove. As you know, I don't have much experience with tools, but I like the way that my snap on purchases to date are very simple and easy to attach and detach. Thanks again, this too will be of great help as I continue looking at my catalogs and reading posts. I've kind of stayed out of the tool section since it has gone over my head, but it's time for me to start learning!! Thanks again, Jamie | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 765 Registered: 03-2003 |
"I have already found out the hard way that when I put craftsman sockets on my little snap on wrench, they are almost impossible to remove. As you know, I don't have much experience with tools, but I like the way that my snap on purchases to date are very simple and easy to attach and detach." I'm glad to see that you're noticing the differences. As you wrench more and more, you will notice even more differences between your Snap-on stuff and your other tools. Whether it's a ratchet that clicks more smoothly or doesn't require you to use two hands or change your grip to reverse the ratcheting mechanism, or an open-ended wrench that suffers less tip spread and gives you more cranking power, or a box-ended wrench or socket that is thin enough to fit into a tight spot that your other wrenches or sockets will not fit into, or a screwdriver bit that doesn't cam out as easily, or less mangling of fasteners, or lack of numb hands the day after wrenching on your truck, or whatever. The differences are there. http://www.expeditionexchange.com/snap-on/adam.jpg | ||
| Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) Senior Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 271 Registered: 05-2003 |
John, very good point. I recently put heated seat switchs in my console and used a friends "real" screwdriver. It was not mangled, had a special magnet tip to keep the screws from falling down between the seats. Something so simple as removeing 4 screws with the correct tool was mind boggling. What a difference!!! -Jim | ||
| Ray Wallace (Rayd2) New Member Username: Rayd2 Post Number: 33 Registered: 05-2003 |
Jamie, do John Lee a favor and do NOT spray pink dayglo paint on your SnapOns for easy recognition. One of your earlier posts led me think you were going to "mark" them for easy finding, but poor John would have a heart attack if you did that. Ray | ||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 851 Registered: 02-2002 |
Not to mention that painting those tools would be an act of utter stupidity. | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 719 Registered: 05-2003 |
No plans to paint my tools. That would be counterproductive. However, the snap on guy said that every once in awhile he gets a sample in with pink flex grip handles I'll believe that when I see it!! Jamie | ||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 735 Registered: 05-2003 |
Just wanted to say thanks again for your help and especially for your patience. I just got back from picking up my 24" SHBB24 soft grip breaker bar and IM340 1 1/16" socket. I don't have many tools, but I'll say this about the breaker bar: this is absolutely the MOST (biggest) tool I have gotten for the money to date Thanks again, Jamie p.s. I picked the lime green color breaker bar for highest visibility |
