| Author | Message | ||
     Andy Nichols (Lrcb40) New Member Username: Lrcb40 Post Number: 30 Registered: 09-2002 |
Has anyone got the scoop on putting a 4.6 into a Classic? Is there any tech advice or threads on the subject? I know the front cover will have to be changed, with dizzy drive etc, but what other differences (fuel injection etc) will be encountered? Thanks! | ||
| Mike M (Rangeroverhp) Member Username: Rangeroverhp Post Number: 207 Registered: 09-2003 |
Will go. Front Cover Change? | ||
| Andy Nichols (Lrcb40) New Member Username: Lrcb40 Post Number: 31 Registered: 09-2002 |
Yeah - this one's (the 4.6)got an oil pump problem and has (as all later engines have)fully electronic ignition, but my RRC has a dizzy and the engine was stripped to basic block - no ancills. The 'timing' cover has to be swopped to get the distributor to work and I was wondering if there are any other less obvious differences. | ||
| Mike M (Rangeroverhp) Member Username: Rangeroverhp Post Number: 208 Registered: 09-2003 |
Oh. Sorry. I misuderstood. Why used and not new? | ||
| Geoff 93 RRC (Geoff) Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 222 Registered: 11-2002 |
Along with the front cover you need a 3.9 or 4.2 cam to drive the distributor. The fuel injection will need to be rechipped (see www.rpiv8.com) for the larger displacement. | ||
| Andy Nichols (Lrcb40) New Member Username: Lrcb40 Post Number: 32 Registered: 09-2002 |
Thanks. I'm going to try a Crane cam, with a slightly different grind. A friend did this and he got a bit more power too. | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 205 Registered: 04-2003 |
Andy The stock cams are made for emmisions and durability of the valve train. So all cam grinders easily make a cam that gives more torque and fuel economy. If you use the original timing cover: I recall that the 4.6 crank is too long in the front nose(for your front cover). Also as I recall, you have to saw less than an inch off the end, then use a dremmel tool to "move" the slot for the crank key. You need a feed other simple bits to make the conversion also. My preference is to convert to the "intermediate" cover and serpentine drive belt. You would need a doner intermediate engine: 95RRC, 97D90, 94-97 Discovery. Remove everything on the front of the doner engine and bolt it to the 4.6. You will need a few simple custom made bits for that too(hoses). Many of your questions can be answered at www.rpiv8.com/faq-conv.htm Randall | ||
| Andy Nichols (Lrcb40) New Member Username: Lrcb40 Post Number: 33 Registered: 09-2002 |
Randall: Thanks! I'm lucky to have a 95 RRC so with the engine out will be able to use existing parts. I'll check with the folks at RPI too. I appreciate your help! Andy | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 208 Registered: 04-2003 |
Dang you are lucky. 95RRC is a real nice car too. Just to make sure: the intermediate timing cover has a distributor and a serpentine belt. If that's what you have you should be able to bolt all your old stuff to a 4.0/4.6 Be sure to clean the timing cover thoroughly. You don't want to run dirt from an old engine thru a new one. | ||
| A. Ali (Alia176) Member Username: Alia176 Post Number: 153 Registered: 03-2003 |
I don't think you need to saw off the front of the crank shaft. Simply use a spacer to realign the timing sprockets accordingly. This way you can use the older style timing cover with V belt pulleys and your dizzy. RPI and other will sell you a spacer or you can simply have one made. Crane cams don't have the grind/duration/etc for low end torque IMHO. Their stuff is still based on the 215 engine out of older Rovers and not for the newer V8s that need low end grunt, specially with large tires and off roading. Usually Crane cams "come on" a bit later, around 2700 rpms or so, and we really need torque around 1200 rpm or so. If you're planning on doing some slow rock crawling, you'll appreciate being able to practically idle over most stuff in Low gear. As far as all of your other belt driven accessories, they should all install easily on the new block. The 4.6 block will come with a Crankshaft positioning sensor hole on the driver side. You can simply plug this up with a round washer since you'll be using your dizzy. I'm sure more info will come forth on this topic! Good luck and have fun researching. RPI and other English sites should have tons of info on this typcial swap. Ali | ||
| Mike M (Rangeroverhp) Member Username: Rangeroverhp Post Number: 210 Registered: 09-2003 |
I agree with A.Ali. Crane will "work" but it's not really set up for this aplication. It is still based off the old Buick 215 engine from a sedan. Cams made specificaly for Rover applications are not cheap. But you get what you pay for. | ||
| Mike M (Rangeroverhp) Member Username: Rangeroverhp Post Number: 211 Registered: 09-2003 |
Saw off the nose of the crank? That's a new one. Go for the spacer. If you have a hard time finding one in the US, let me know. | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 209 Registered: 04-2003 |
Ali: are you puting together an engine? Two weeks ago I did a quick study on the diferences between all the various crank noses, and how they would interact with the various gears/pulleys that were used over the decades. At that moment I was informed that someody(who will never win a Nobel Prize) had sawed and Dremel tooled a crank to get it working in his application. Somehow I ended up typing that idea on thread. The main thing to keep in mind is that all the cranks used on serpentine belt LRs are about 3/4" longer, and the key slot may not be in the correct position for your pully/gear. If you are curious about a 4.6 swap into a RRC: the dimensions for that spacer are: 40mm OD, 35mm ID, 17mm long...just to give you an idea of what we mean by "crank spacer". In regards to camshafts; I would be willing to bet my life that there are half a dozen aftermarket cams that would produce more stump pulling torque, and better mpg too. But if your goal is maximum valve train life and sending unburnt fuel to the cats to keep the feds happy, the 3.9/4.2 camshfts are the only game in town. It would be pointless to declare one cam the best. Because if you are building an engine/vehicle, you try to pick the the cam which works correctly in that application. But I have been most impressed by Crane. Crane's(and LRs) grinds seem to be more complex than the other choices. That tells me that they are seriously trying to match the profile to the heads. Randall | ||
| A. Ali (Alia176) Member Username: Alia176 Post Number: 155 Registered: 03-2003 |
Randall: yes, I'm doing the same thing. Not in a hurry since it isn't my DD! Good point about the camshaft. The 4.2 camshaft is a nice one for this application. One thing to keep in mind that you'll need to tell the ECU how to handle the extra air going into the engine. Otherwise, lean condition will occur and all sorts of bad things can happen! As usual, there're various methods of doing this: Tornado chip from RPI, cold start EPROM from LR, rising rate fuel press regulator, etc. I ended up with the RP4 camshaft from RPI, FYI. Ali | ||
| Randall Smith (Mr_smith) Member Username: Mr_smith Post Number: 210 Registered: 04-2003 |
Ali Take your time and do it right. Yes that RP4 is definately a high torque cam. Should have an extremly smooth idle also. Randall | ||
| Ron Beckett (Ron_beckett) New Member Username: Ron_beckett Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2004 |
What I did for a friend who was doing this conversion was to get an old front pulley and cut the pulley off the bit that fits over the crank. I then machined the bit over the crank to the right length to make a spacer. Why? Because the old pulley has a keyway already cut in it. Ron | ||
| eric johnson (Eric2) Member Username: Eric2 Post Number: 242 Registered: 05-2003 |
I was told by the shop that rebuilt my engine, the 14CUX is pretty good at keeping the air/fuel ratio where it should be, since it has the mass air flow sensor. We shall see. | ||
| J. Michael McCaig (Lrover) New Member Username: Lrover Post Number: 33 Registered: 01-2003 |
Andy, What was the problem with the 4.6 oil pump? | ||
| A. Ali (Alia176) Member Username: Alia176 Post Number: 156 Registered: 03-2003 |
Don't forget to give the heads some "love" while they're out. A three angle valve job, and a deck skimming will rejuvinate her quite a bit! Ali | ||
| Andy Nichols (Lrcb40) New Member Username: Lrcb40 Post Number: 35 Registered: 09-2002 |
On my engine? It's a used one, so all I know is the engine was pulled due to it failing. Andy | ||
| J. Michael McCaig (Lrover) New Member Username: Lrover Post Number: 34 Registered: 01-2003 |
You may be better off using a V-belt style front cover with the kind of pump that does not run off the crank on your 4.6. I'm told that some kinds of pump failure on the 4.6 was due to a misalignment problem with the crank-driven oilpumps, your guide pins in the block for the front cover may be off slightly. Your '95 RRC has an intermediate cover with a crank-driven pump. |
