| Author | Message | ||
     Ryan Harmaning (Bronzerangie) New Member Username: Bronzerangie Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004 |
To sort of tie into Andrew's recent thread, my new Rangie's diagnosis is two air shocks are totally shot (barely hold pressure), and the other two are not far behind. With the cost of factory parts, even with my Indie mech doing the work, I'm looking at $2100 or so. Not being willing to spend that kind of money (heck, she still needs brake work and a good tune up!), I'm wondering if the coil-over set up is now the best course of action. I've been directed to the Arnott Indust. air shocks, but my mech advised strongly against them. Anyone have any bad experiences with the Arnott product to know why he might think this way? I like the versatility of the air suspension and ideally would like to keep it, but I admit that the simplicity of a traditional coil-over (and seeming one-time cost) is pretty attractive as well. Your collective opinions are much appreciated! Regards, - Ryan in Seattle '93 County LWB | ||
| OLIVER CLOTHSOFF (Everythingleaks) Senior Member Username: Everythingleaks Post Number: 347 Registered: 10-2002 |
Go to the coils. Most people like the ride better and you never have to worry about the vehicle turning into a low rider again. All the parts in the EAS system are expensive and they all seem to fail down the line. | ||
| Alyssa Brown (Alyssa) Senior Member Username: Alyssa Post Number: 606 Registered: 01-2003 |
Ryan, the air suspension will continue to be a headache forever. There are many expensive parts to fail. Go with the coil springs & don't look back. | ||
| Bill Ross (Billr) Member Username: Billr Post Number: 150 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ryan: Replaced the bags on my '93 with a complete OME setup. The ride is perhaps a wee bit stiff, but I haven't looked back since I did it since I don't have to worry now about a bag blowing out when I'm in the bush. Hellva lot cheaper to go with way to boot. | ||
| Ryan Harmaning (Bronzerangie) New Member Username: Bronzerangie Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2004 |
Well hmmm, I wonder what you guys think? :-P All sound advice from the looks of it, and a conclusion I was inexorably drawing towards as well. The techy in me likes the air suspension, but the maintenance costs, and inherant complexity are just too big of concerns to overlook. Alrighty then, decision made. I'm off the RoverNorth's website for the OME Springs and Bilstein setup. Thanks all for the input - much appreciated! Cheers, - Ryan '93 County LWB, 102kmi | ||
| Christian Kuhtz (Ckuhtz) New Member Username: Ckuhtz Post Number: 29 Registered: 06-2003 |
I have never heard of any complaints about Arnott. My P38A got a set of Arnott springs (w/ lifetime warranty, I might add) a couple of months ago. | ||
| Geoff 93 RRC (Geoff) Senior Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 285 Registered: 11-2002 |
I was intrigued with the technical side of the air springs too, but after some hand wringing I decided keeping them for the long term didn't really make sense...these cars have too many other things to spend money on. I got the HD kit from RoversNorth and am happy. Their HD kit uses D90 front springs and Disco rears. Don't miss the air springs. If you convert, I'd suggest in addition to the conversion kit, you get the Disco II rubber spring isolators (about $12 each). The rears work in the front too. | ||
| Ryan Harmaning (Bronzerangie) New Member Username: Bronzerangie Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2004 |
yeah Christian - except for my mechanics comments (which weren't too specific), I hadn't heard many bad things either. Although I did a search of the archives here and a person in an old thread mentioned they tended to rip/break if you dangled the wheels much. Not that I will be in that kind of situation off-roading too often but I will be jacking the vehicle up regularly for maintenance soo... Anyway, the simplicity had won over in this case - good point Geoff about plenty of ofther things to work on as well ;). Thanks for the tip on the isolators - do they just dampen the ride a bit or what? Thanks! - Ryan | ||
| Geoff 93 RRC (Geoff) Senior Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 287 Registered: 11-2002 |
The isolators take out some of the road surface vibration - not huge but noticeable. They also give a little more lift. Try www.expeditionexchange.com. | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 730 Registered: 09-2002 |
Definitely, dump the bags. Get OME springs and shocks if you plan on any off-road action. Oh, and don't get any crazy ideas about using the old EAS compressor to inflate your tires - it's a POS  SC (93 LWB) P.S. Do the work yourself. It's really easy and you'll learn lots about your suspension. | ||
| Ryan Harmaning (Bronzerangie) New Member Username: Bronzerangie Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2004 |
yeah, what's this I hear about these Old Man Emu springs? I'm not looking for huge lift, or an overly-harsh on-road ride. Are these a good all-around spring or are they more for the hard-core expedition set? They DO sound like a quality product from their site... Thanks again! Oh and don't you need a spring compressor to install the Springs? The though of using those has always kind scared me with the tension those things hold | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 732 Registered: 09-2002 |
OME makes different setups. You can go with a medium spring to keep the ride quality and a mild lift, but you will limit your load capacity. Check the archives for tons more info. Some people use a spring compressor, some don't. I've put three sets of springs in and out of my truck without a compressor. You just need a good floor jack under the frame and your bottle jack to lower the axle. The rear is that easy. You may or may not have to pull out the forward radius arm bolt at the front. Since the LWBs have external shocks at the front the rest is easy. SC | ||
| Robert Lee (Boblee) New Member Username: Boblee Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hey Ryan, Ive got some springs that are brand new that you might be interested in. Just depends on what you want and if you want a lift. I got some Dobinson springs to get more lift, but these will give you a little bit of lift. Ill let them go for very cheap because I have no use for them and they have just been hangin out in the garage for 5 months. Email me if you are interested and I can send you pics etc. Thanks, Robert | ||
| Sven S (Sven95lwb) New Member Username: Sven95lwb Post Number: 13 Registered: 08-2003 |
Another option is the Big Blue 2" springs from DAP. I have these on my LWB and they are equivalent to 1" over the "normal" setting. They arent as stiff as the OME's but are excellent on road and descent for mild offroading. Im probably going to switch over to the OME's because Im finding myself doing more offroading than I originally intended. Bur for your needs, the DAP kit might be what your looking for. Sven | ||
| Ryan Harmaning (Bronzerangie) New Member Username: Bronzerangie Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2004 |
an update: I've decided to go with springs from Rovertym (Heavy duty up front, Medium's in the rear), with OME shocks. Great prices for products that have quite favorable reviews as well. Steve at Rovertym is a great guy and very helpful. Only bad thing is I have to wait till the 24th before the heavy Duty springs come in  Thanks again all for relating your experiences - I'll have an update for you all as soon as I get them on! Regards, - Ryan | ||
| Andrew Parker (P38memate) Member Username: P38memate Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2003 |
Boo Hiss, Boo Hiss! $200 for two new lifetime warrentied air springs from Arnott Ind. If the system is maintained and the O-rings are replaced sooner than the bladders the rest of the components won't get trashed. I respect your descision along with the rest of your fellow slinky toting groupies. Then Max said, "Let the wild rumpus begin" and he tammed them with a magic trick, by looking into there yellow eyes and not blinking, even once! Ryan and the rest of you please take this post with a grain of salt, all in good fun! | ||
| Ryan Harmaning (Bronzerangie) New Member Username: Bronzerangie Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2004 |
HA! That was great Andrew I DO like the air system, and I may convert back at a later time if I don't like the coils (or if my wife complains enough about the ladder needed for her to get inside) as I'm leaving everything else in place. As it is now though, I'm riding on bump stops for the first few mintues of my daily forays which isn't that fun. I shudder (literally) to think what that would be like should an air shock fail out in the boonies.... - r | ||
| Chris Crompton (Chris) New Member Username: Chris Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2004 |
Still new to this board, but I might as well add my 2 cents worth - I know I will get slated for this, but I tend to think of my air springs like a good woman, they are higher maintenance than springs, can be more expensive than springs, can fail (walk out !!), on you when you most need them - but I will stick with my air for as long as I can. I give my airbags a tough time in the dunes and on the rocks and even when my valve block failed out in the boonies I ran the rest of the day on the bump stops and still got through tricky patches, turned around and towed out other vehicles that couldn't make it. I can understand for financial reasons a change to slinky's, but I will only do that when I've broken enough airbags and EAS bits to make it too expensive to maintain. The air is great, I love the ride and even though I think eventually I may have to change it, it will be done reluctantly. Best of luck with the coils, and apologies if anyone takes the first paragraph in a way unintended... | ||
| Steve Gurney (Sgl322) New Member Username: Sgl322 Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2004 |
Hello Ryan If you are worried about having an EAS problem whilst off-road fit this kit from Justin, http://www.carrollrovers.com/about.htm it will get past any EAS problem apart from a spring going bang. For this you can carry a spare spring, these are less expensive from arnott, http://arnottindustries.com/products/products.asp?modelYearId=22. Even less so if you are prepared to change bellows which is not a difficult job. Air springs can easily be replaced in the field. Have you system checked out properly too, most of block problems are down to the O rings which are $1 parts. But even if you have to change all fours springs you are talking ~$500 plus 2hours labour max. Hope this helps. Steve | ||
| Andrew Parker (P38memate) Member Username: P38memate Post Number: 45 Registered: 12-2003 |
Looking for some parts to bypass your EAS manifold then take heed of this list from McMaster-Carr: 5437K111 METRIC FLAME RETARDENT NYLON 12 TUBING 3MM ID, 6MM OD 1.5MM WALL THICKNESS $1.26/FT. 5053K31 QUICK ASSEMBLY BRASS COMPRESSION TUBE FITTING TEE FOR 1/4" TUBE OD. $3.67 EA. 5053K37 QUICK ASSEMBLY BRASS COMPRESSION TUBE FITTING FEMALE STRAIGHT ADAPTER FOR 1/4" TUBE OD, 1/8 NPTF $1.07 EA. To finish this off you need some schrader valved fittings with male 1/8 NPTF threads to go into the above component which I already had. 1. Just pilot drill 5 holes and tap four of them 1/8 NPTF in a small sheet of aluminum .050" thick or less and run the tap all the way through till it won't go any further. You get about two turns of thread in the plate. 2. Then thread the schrader valved fittings into the plate all the way till the hex meets the plate. 3. Dope up the threads with a liberal amount of teflon tape. More is better. 4. Thread the FEMALE STRAIGHT ADAPTERS onto the schrader vales and mount the plate on the bolt that fixes the cover on the radiator at the front of the engine compartment. (NAS drivers side) 5. Remove the MAS and intake tube from the air cleaner box and loosen the brake pump and accumulator to access the EAS lines that go to the air springs. 6. Remove the 4x 6mm numbered 1 through 4 air spring lines from the EAS manifold and using the tee fitting as a guide cut the air lines and fit the tees to the existing lines as a straight run. 7. Cut new straight 1 to 1.5 inch long pieces from the Nylon 12 tube to run from the EAS manifold to the Tees fitting's side port. 8. If you mount the plate and schraders up front next to the radiator and the power steering resi. you'll need four lengths about 36 inches long to get there. 9. Score the nylon 12 tubing with a tubing cutter so as to round the end and then cut it through with a razor blade. This will make a nice lead for the o-rings to climb up when you insert the tube into the EAS manifold. 10. Use a center punch to work the inside diameter of the tube so it will go over the nubs which protrude from the TEE's and the ADAPTER's. Unloaded the P38A takes about 70 to 75 PSI to get here to raise up. This makes a great addition for getting off the bump stops for about $50, assuming the air springs and orings are fresh. AP | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 759 Registered: 09-2002 |
Dump the bags Andrew, that is SO not worth the trouble Just remember, all you die-hard EAS fans - it's not just the failure of the EAS that will strand you (and it will). When the alternator dies (it will) you could normally make it home on the battery - not with EAS. As soon as the voltage drops you're sitting on the bump stops. Just MHO SC | ||
| Andrew Parker (P38memate) Member Username: P38memate Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh yes it is way worth the trouble. Because if as you state, the EAS goes down like like a ton of bricks as it does on the pre P38A's with low battery voltage, then you have an alternate means of sustaining the ride height with a tire pump for crying out loud. That to me makes a whole lot of sense in terms of options. 759 to 47 your way on top with the senior status Steve. Be seeing you on John Bull with any luck. | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 764 Registered: 09-2002 |
You DO have an alternate means of sustaining the ride height - it's called a coil spring - and you NEVER have to fix it again It may make more sense with a P38A to keep the EAS alive, but I just don't see any reason to keep a Classic on EAS. It made it 23 years on coils. It was a great experiment for LR to put the Classic on EAS for it's last 3 years but for about $300 you can return the Classic to it's true self, and worry about all the other things that need to be fixed. BTW, I do admire your commitment to and knowledge of the EAS system. Are you sure about the P38A with a low battery? I thought at some point - possibly a lower voltage than the RRC - it too sits down? Of course, it would probably stall by that point so it wouldn't really matter. I don't think I'm going to make the Bull this time - family stuff going on. Besides, it's really just a dirt road with big rocks in the way SC | ||
| Craig Kobayashi (Koby) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Koby Post Number: 1213 Registered: 02-2002 |
All that work to keep your bags inflated. Seems with all the problems others have had with EAS it's as if you're trying to drink water from a fire hose. | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 717 Registered: 02-2002 |
COILS!  Ho Chung | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 1463 Registered: 04-2003 |
"hold on guys" "pull over" "I have to pump up my suspension" | ||
| Steve Cooper (Scrover) Senior Member Username: Scrover Post Number: 767 Registered: 09-2002 |
"pump this" | ||
| Martin Tuip (Ajax) Member Username: Ajax Post Number: 114 Registered: 06-2003 |
Airbags are soooooo 90s ;) | ||
| eduardo (Jmonsrvr) Member Username: Jmonsrvr Post Number: 113 Registered: 07-2003 |
what is exactly needed for the switch over to coils? besides springs, retainers and new shocks. do the springs just sit in where the bags used to be? | ||
| Sven S (Sven95lwb) New Member Username: Sven95lwb Post Number: 27 Registered: 08-2003 |
Eduardo all you need for a barebones conversion is springs and retainers. Thats what I did originally. But you may want to change the shocks at the same time anyway. The coils go in the same spot as the bags. Yeah Air suspension reminds me of 1990's Lincoln LSC's that you see driving around with their asses down low. I did my conversion because I bought the LWB at an auction and it was already on the bumpstops with the warning lights flashing. I didnt bother repairing the air crap. | ||
| Andrew Parker (P38memate) Member Username: P38memate Post Number: 50 Registered: 12-2003 |
Its Slinky Its Slinky that wonderfull wonderfull toy. | ||
| eduardo (Jmonsrvr) Member Username: Jmonsrvr Post Number: 123 Registered: 07-2003 |
so all i need is the springs, shocks, and retainers for the bottom...just like my disco 1 set up minus the shock towers....i replaced all the shocks and springs on my disco...this job sounds to easy....thanks |
