| Author | Message | ||
     eric w siepmann (Cdn001) New Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hello, I am new to the board and I am possibly looking to replace my stock front bumper due to some minor rust spots. 97 Station Wagon - bone stock except for a Warn winch. I would like to get a bumper strong enough to run some tow-jaws or shackles for recovery. Anyone have any experience with the HD Camel Trophy styled bumper on page 93 of the Rovers North catalog? TJM? Safari Gard? Appreciate your thoughts and advice, E.S. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 643 Registered: 03-2003 |
Eric, Forget the TJM for the Defender. That T13 bar is hideous. SG? If you want to pimp out your wagon and ruin it, go for it. ARB is always a solid choice for the Defender. This is probably the strongest of the currently available Defender bumpers. The Defender ARB bar will also accept Hella 4000's and the combination looks really nice. I really like the looks and performance of the D90 with ARB bar, winch with non-integrated solenoid pack, synthetic winch line, two Dixon-Bate 3.5-ton tow jaws mounted just outboard of the frame horns, and two Hella 4000 cornering's with 4000 clear covers. You must relocate your ATF cooler slightly to mount the ARB. My favorite bumper for the Defender is the Camel Trophy style bar with the Husky 10, Brownchurch brushguard, Husky 10 winch, synthetic winch line, two Dixon-Bate tow jaws, and two Hella 550 fogs. This combination is really expensive, as the bumper alone costs $600 and the brushguard costs an additional $600. Also, the strength of this combination is far inferior to that of the ARB, as the ARB features a blade made out of box sections and the brushbar is integrated with the blade. The winch performance though will be superior to the ARB set-up, as you will have the worm-driven Husky 10 pulling for you and you needn't worry about smoking the synthetic rope. You can also retain your JATE rings with this bumper design. This set-up will block your blinker lights, as will the ARB. I also like the idea of the CT look on your stocker. The ARB is a rather large bumper and I don't think it looks as good on a "stock" D90 as the CT stuff, which has a quasi factory look to it. | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 532 Registered: 02-2003 |
www.d-90.com search thru the owner bio's section maybe you can get more ideas there. My personal preferance would be the Rockware bumper. FWIW | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) New Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks guys! Would either require new springs? I am trying to avoid that. John and I spoke at length on the topic over the phone and I have decided against new springs for the time being (don't want to mess with the brand new tires I just bought, potential driveline issues, and well lack of time researching the best plan of attack for a capable lift). My main idea is to keep the stock flavor but enhance the performance (however marginal from the already outstanding performance a stock 90 already has). Going to get dedicated off-road tires and rims and going to remedy the weak factory diff's, perhaps the axles while I am at it. EwS | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) New Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh, I almost forgot. I picked up my SW from my friendly local dealer tonight. They forgot to hit the code for my radio, so while they reset it, I wandered around the show room floor. My new definition of Pimpin' Chicago Style is a 04 black rangie with cheap 22s. It was on the floor! I personally would have put gold spinners on it.... with matching gold tint on the windows of course. Thankfully Landrover doesn't off the ever popular "Poser Gold" trim package. EwS | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 645 Registered: 03-2003 |
If you get either the ARB/winch or CT/Husky combination, you will need HD front springs or you will sag. The full CT/Husky combination is extremely heavy, even heavier than the ARB. You can try either LR HD springs or something like an OME MD or LD front spring setup to handle the extra front weight without giving you lots of front lift. If you're going for the stocker height with offroad tires, I dig the 5.5" series wheels with Michelin 7.50 XZL or XL tires. This looks really nice with the CT/Husky set-up. If you're going for the ARB front, you might try 6.5" wide 130 wheels combined with 235/85 BFG MT-KM's. | ||
| Ron Ward (Ronward) Senior Member Username: Ronward Post Number: 352 Registered: 02-2002 |
John is right on the money with his comments. I happen to have a Terrain Master front winch bumper in my garage, new and still in the box from Atlantic British. I decided to keep the ARB I bought from EE so the TM is just sitting there. It is the blade with no brush guard that will mount exactly like the stock bumper. The blade has the cut out in the middle for any Warn winch. You replace your stock bumper with my TM bumper and add a winch and you may be able to get away with stock springs as you'll only be adding the weight of the winch (90 lbs or so). Email me or reply here if you want more info on my bumper that I will be glad to sell to you cheaper than you can buy the same thing retail. Ron Ward | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) New Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ron, I appreciate the offer, but I'll have to pass at the moment. I just bought an NRP stainless exhaust system from RN. My right Cat had some serious issues, which precluded me from pursuing any bumper upgrades as well as installing TruTracs. That hurt. I was really looking forward to those diffs as well. Again, I appreciate your offer. EwS | ||
| Ron Ward (Ronward) Senior Member Username: Ronward Post Number: 353 Registered: 02-2002 |
No problem. It's packed away in the garage if you get ready. | ||
| Wicks (Wicks) Member Username: Wicks Post Number: 104 Registered: 03-2003 |
Eric, When I read your inquiry, it sounded like we have similar taste in terms of equipping/modifying rovers. I'll try to post a photo as well, but I chose the RN winch bumper you mentioned, which is similar to the Mantec unit produced for CT Defenders, but made here by a subcontractor. I also fitted the RN "square" brush bar, as I appreciate the design being integrated with the Defender's front end lines very smartly. I noticed this brush bar as a particularly fine choice by LRNA when they were building up the Defender for the Tomb Raider film. John Lee has a page on that here: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/trd/index.htm I discussed some details about this setup with John Lee as well, including the mounting of the tow-jaws on the angled portion of the winch box, etc. I also loved the nose of the TRD so much that I acquired a rope bridle from Steve Cooper and leave it recovery-fitted as a decoration. John L also advised me that the Nylon that the rope is made of will deteriorate sitting out there in the weather, so I purchased one of his very spiffy recovery ropes (yes not a strap - they seem to be gone from the EE products site) and will use that in event of actual front end recovery. Regarding winch, Superwinch Husky as recommended by John Lee is certainly the choice. (I had a WARN previously which was easily liquidated here when I decided to change.) This is the same company that made the old winches for Series rovers. I also chose the Husky 8 winch which has plenty of power but also has the advantage of almost twice the length of line (150 feet) as the Husky 10. Regarding springs, I have had a lot of people telling me to change springs, but I have resisted for the same reasons you have. I did upgrade my shocks to pressurized Bilstiens to generally slow down all the action, and they also provide a small "anti-sag" I'd call it, since there's something around 75 pounds of pressure pushing up from each shock at all times. Performance with this front end setup (including a steering guard, a bonnet spare mount and various other hardware) has been fine with the stock springs. I recently won the Neveda Trophy with it, and I'll tell you, my rear springs were the ones begging for a little more fight with the full Safety Devices jungle-gym on top and 4 cans of gas plus all kinds of gear in the back. I hit the rear axle stops perhaps 5 times through the 12 hour event, but never the front. I'm just one of those guys who appreciates the original design's intelligent compromises; one of which bears a generally smooth ride, above-average tracking, and the lack of complaints from ladies while boarding the vessel in dresses and whatnot. I chose 235/85/16 Bridgestone Duellers for tires. We've tested a few and these are very good. Next time I want to find some G90s or something LR mil spec to put on there with a set of WOLF wheels, even narrower. They provide great steering at medium speeds in our climate here. Oh, a final note - I work the truck pretty hard and with a little grace and attention on the tricky spots, I haven't broken a diff or an axle. Neither has my father on his 110 (all stock driveline) and he has worked that truck harder than anyone, anytime, anywhere. He used to have an old 109 in Maine when we were kids and I remember him always complaining about the frame cracking apart and visits to the weld shop to keep it together. Did you run a 0-60 test on stock axhaust to compare to the NRP? ;) Best, Wicks (will try to attach picture below) | ||
| Wicks (Wicks) Member Username: Wicks Post Number: 105 Registered: 03-2003 |
Oh - you might like to have RN powder coat your bumper - it already has a little surface rust in the recovery slots.  | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 545 Registered: 02-2003 |
hey Wicks you got a photo of those rear mudflaps? | ||
| Wicks (Wicks) Member Username: Wicks Post Number: 107 Registered: 03-2003 |
Phil - same as on George's Defender page on roversdownsouth.com | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) New Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2003 |
Wicks, I am leaning toward the RN bumper and Superwinch. Thanks for your great feed back. I'll have to call RN and inquire on Monday. I might just get the bumber and and have it powder coated in Chicago. I need to have my Roll bar done as well. Might as well kill two birds with on stone. I agree that the brush bar is the way to go. I love the stock look. It is the only vehicle that I think actually looks good with a wrap around bar. I guess I'll have to sell the warn. I did not do any testing on the NRP or the stock exhaust. I am putting it on this weekend, but since it is slightly above freezing, it is taking a little while. I'll post my impressions when I am done and after a week or so. As far as performance, I think it will be marginal. If my understanding of the SAGEM system is correct, and it may not be as I haven't had time to research the matter, the ECU may detract from the benefits. Since the ECU self diagnoses, it may want to try to reset the performance from stock until it learns that this is the new reality, so any gains may be after the ECU hashes it out. I hear anywher from 8-12 HP though. The only real thing that has help was to have the dealer decarbonize my throttle body and add a gass treatment. Supposedly the 4.0 valves get sticky after awhile. This is supposedly fixed with the treatment. I actually feel the difference in acceleration. The throttle body decarbon was $125 or so and I got the dealer to throw in the additive for free. John at Expedition Exchange told me that they carry the treatment but have not put it on the website yet. John was shopping for Wet Okole seat covers for his D-90 and hasn't had the time. Give them a ring. | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) Senior Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 546 Registered: 02-2003 |
cool.. what did you do about the exhaust? | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) New Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2003 |
Full NRP system. Almost finished the install. It was a little more than the OEM system. It is really nice, The quality is outstanding. Beautiful indeed. Cats ride a little higher which I like. Still has the stock type tail pipe which I like but others do not. Amazing that they could tuck the cats and not protect the pipe. Install is simple as well. Comes with all the needed items. I also got rubber hangers. I'll post my impressions for all to see and or ridicule.... EwS | ||
| Joseph Pfeiffer (Jp7161) New Member Username: Jp7161 Post Number: 10 Registered: 04-2003 |
It seems John doesn't like the SafariGard but I did a lot of research and I personally chose the SafariGard. I like the design and it has a way better approach angle than the ARB. I also live in So Cal and it is easy to drive by and pick it up eliminating shipping, plus they have 10% off right now. | ||
| David Marchand (Dmarchand) Member Username: Dmarchand Post Number: 224 Registered: 09-2002 |
The look of the RN bumper/mantec setup is nice. However I've got two problems with it. One, it mounts at the same level as the frame rails, thus lower than the setups by Rockware and other bumpers. Two, while the area between the frame rails appears to be strong enough, a few weekends ago, I watched one of our club members ease the outside corner of his bumper into a rock and bend the bumper into the front wing panel. I was surprised to see the bumper isn't 4-sided boxed steel on the outside corners. Only three sided and definitely not strong. The bend occurred at the attachment point as outside of the bumper met the rock. I can't say it would have happened to say a rcokware, but I doubt it would have bent as much. Plus, if he had just slightly more clearance, he would have eased over the rock until his tire met. Here's a pic from the rock encounter, We had to use the snatch and winch to pull the bumper out of the wing so he could turn his wheels.  | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) New Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 20 Registered: 12-2003 |
Damn! That looks like a really nasty repair bill. I have to agree with John. I saw a D-90 St at the dealer and it had an SG on it with LightForce lights. After seeing it in person I didn't like the lines. I like Wicks' TRD style though. Very nice. And I hate how the CT's have those square driving lights. I know it it function over form and that they get the job done nicley and are the traditional look, but it's not my cup of tea. So here is the final choice. Std. brush bar, OME lift, but TruTracs front and rear, CT bumper and Husky winch. No that glamourous at all, but it will get the much needed recovery points up front and will be a huge improvement over the warn I have now. This design should be more than adequate for the amount, terrain, and frequency of my offroading. Roof rack and lights if I can find a way to get the time off of work to go on the 2004 Border to Border. They are talking about an Alaskan or Northern Candanian Rockies route. I am still kicking myself for not signing up last year. The Colorado trip looked so Cool! Very excited about the prospects. I appreciate everyone's response! | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 680 Registered: 03-2003 |
Dave, is that Dennis White's truck? Let's see here. Dennis drove into a boulder, and the bumper bent. Surprise, surprise. "And I hate how the CT's have those square driving lights. I know it it function over form and that they get the job done nicley and are the traditional look, but it's not my cup of tea." Actually, those Hella 550's are very weak compared to what else is available out there. A Hella 4000, for example, throws considerably more light than a Hella 550. Even the dinky Hella Micro DE throws more light than a Hella 550. I just dig the look of the 550's on that CT brushguard. Yes, I'm a fashion victim. | ||
| David Marchand (Dmarchand) Member Username: Dmarchand Post Number: 225 Registered: 09-2002 |
John, was it the XZL's that gave it away? ;) | ||
| Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 197 Registered: 05-2003 |
Isn't Land Rover itself a fashion statement? | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 681 Registered: 03-2003 |
I really like Dennis' truck. I think it's one of the coolest Defenders around. It's unique without being different just for the sake of being different. And all of his stuff looks topnotch. It doesn't have that homemade hunk of shit look. Really nice. | ||
| Wicks (Wicks) Member Username: Wicks Post Number: 109 Registered: 03-2003 |
I was beginning to think that the "homemade hunk of shit look" was the new fashion - thanks for clarifying. | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) New Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2003 |
You'd never guess after reading the things people do to their trucks, Wicks, where'd you get the bridle on the front of the truck? I like it. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 685 Registered: 03-2003 |
"I was beginning to think that the "homemade hunk of shit look" was the new fashion...." Well, if 99% of the mods shown on this board are any indication, then it is. | ||
| Wicks (Wicks) Member Username: Wicks Post Number: 111 Registered: 03-2003 |
Eric, Guy selling RN winch bumper with Husky on d-90.com parts for sale. Quick! Steve Cooper handles the bridles... http://www.landroverstuff.com/terrainmaster.htm | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) New Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks, I'll look into it. No Hunk of SHit look for me thanks. Might have to run that as well. I love how that looks. EwS | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) New Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2003 |
Damn, just jinxed myself. Looks well worn for what he wants. But on another note, the ECR 5.2 engine is for sale on d-90. the guy is putting in a the new powerstroke deisel from Int'l H. That would be the third time that ST has had it's entire drivetrain redone. He is letting it go for 11k for the complete system. what a bargain. Wicks, treat yourself this holiday season and let us know how you like the 5.2 set-up! Happy Holidays all! EwS | ||
| Wicks (Wicks) Member Username: Wicks Post Number: 116 Registered: 03-2003 |
I think it's a little too much of a comittment to this truck for me. You know my dream is a TR 110 crew cab, so I have to keep that dream alive... | ||
| Tony Cordell (Tony_c) New Member Username: Tony_c Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 |
The bumpers shown seem to affect the approach angle far too much. the bumper is 5mm and the winch reccessed as far as possible. here's mine: http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004168433270400719068.jpg | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2003 |
I am not concerned about either. Just looking for a good, traditional looking bumper. No rock crawling, so I really don't get hung up about those things. EwS | ||
| Tony Cordell (Tony_c) New Member Username: Tony_c Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2004 |
you'd be ok with an ARB one then. why are you fitting a winch I'm curious. as an gully/ditch you cross a standard fitment bumper will have you hung up before you know it. | ||
| eric w siepmann (Cdn001) Member Username: Cdn001 Post Number: 48 Registered: 12-2003 |
Already have a Warn installed on the factory bumper. That POS is out of here for a CT set-up and a super winch. More into trail riding at the moment than the trails suited for 35s and lockers. |
