| Author |
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Greg French
| | Posted on Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 06:37 pm: | 
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I am looking at an 84 Defender 110. It has no AC. How hard/expensive would this be to install, or is it not possible?
How about an external roll cage. Where can I get one, and how much are they?
I know, I know...You're thinking, "An 84 110 can't be legal!"
I asked the seller, and he says he has sold plenty with no problems. In fact, this one is already registered with a SC title.
Or am I getting burned?
Who can I contact to find out for sure? |
Troy
| | Posted on Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 07:32 pm: |
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What is the truck titled as? When was it brought into the states.
I don't know much about the A/C, but I would imagine installing a unit is going to be tough to find and time-consuming to install. Assuming it would fit, your best bet may be to find someone selling an A/C out of a NAS 90 and install that.
As far as the rollcage ... the cheapest route is probably going to be custom. Safety Devices and Bettaweld (both in the UK) make external cages for the 110s if you're interested in having one shipped stateside. Safety Devices made the NAS 110 cages.
Troy |
Ron
| | Posted on Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 09:56 pm: |
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what engine?
If it has a V8 no problem, just money.
He has sold plenty?
If it came in pre 95 then it could very well be legal. Roversnorth brought in a bunch of 84-85 110 V8s back in the mid 80s.
Ron |
Greg French
| | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 08:28 am: |
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Yeah...he has sold a bunch, and has many more in stock. Not 110's after I get mine (He had 2, sold one, and I am getting the other). But he has lots of series there. I was in awe of his collection.
Some of his stuff still has British titles, but he has lots that are titled right here in South Carolina. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 11:05 am: |
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Greg, let us know after you get your's as to the condition and registering. If this guy has got them then there are alot of people that probably want to know. Thanks. |
Greg French
| | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 02:58 pm: |
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Ok. I will. It may be a while, though. I must sell my Disco before I can get it.
I looked at it on Friday. It was in great condition. He accidentally left the lights on, though, so the battery was dead. Didn't get to test drive it or even hear the engine. The rest of it looked almost new. Very shiny and clean.
I am going back in a few weeks. |
Matt white (Matty88)
| | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 05:38 pm: |
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Greg,
I have a d-90 and my dad has a 84' 110 like you been talking adout it originally had a four cylinder and rovers north put the 3.5 V8, and ECR put A/C in it. You can see a picture of it on ECR's web site and the d-90 source. And we looked at exterior roll cages, ECR wants $9,000 for one and you have to send your truck to them, and I think safety devices wants $5,000 but I'm not sure. And as for parts its just like getting parts for an nas d-90.
Matt |
thought you should know
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 01:47 am: |
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Update on Turkys.
From a reliable source I was told that the guy at Turkys is doing a VIN switch to bring in the 110s. He didn't know for sure how the guy was actually registering them here. (ie. could possibly just be registering them as an '84 Land Rover). But he is bringing them in through US customs as 'Series' Trucks.
This post is so that know one will get burnt buying one. If you purchase a vehicle that is not legal, the gov't can and probably will take the car from you with NO compensation!! Whether you knew about the fraud involved or not.
Buyers beware. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 01:54 am: |
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One more thing, one way you can check the registration and VIN is to know what VIN numbers(there are certain letters in there for 110s) were used on 110s. If you go look at the trucks make sure everything matches, both on the plaque on the windshield as well as the truck itself.
Another point is that '84 110s sell in Europe for cheap (ie. under $4k US at most) So for this guy to be charging $18K plus, you are getting taken for a ride, especially if they are not legal.
One more point is that, unless you have the money in a checking account, a bank will probably not lone you money on a Series truck (whoops sorry, I meant 110) |
Greg French
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 09:53 am: |
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Yeah...Thanks.
That is what I was afraid of. I'll do a VIN check and look at the title while I am there.
What should I be looking for? |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 10:36 am: |
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who wants to go thru the trouble of importing one?
i know i don't.
this seems like a good alternative to a real NAS 110, who the hell cares if it's legal. i break the law daily buy speeding, drinking and driving, stealing office supplies, false insurance claims.
please don't act like your not guilty of breaking laws here or there.
you sounds like a jeolous competitor or just a stick in the mud. thanks for the heads up but if you are going to report the news try to be impartial
rd |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 12:41 pm: |
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you steal office supplies too? I thought it was just me.... |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 12:52 pm: |
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Well, Blue, it's not like the secretaries in your office need rock hammers, either.....
-L |
trying to help
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 03:37 pm: |
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RD, my comments were to warn those looking into buying an illegal vehicle.
Your comments about you breaking the law everyday. That is your issue. The fact remains that:
1. If someone buys an illegally imported vehicle they are breaking federal law. Period.
2. If you purchase said vehicle and get it insured under false pretenses then your insurance company will NOT cover the accident, and you will be held fully liable.
3. These vehicles are not necessarily comparable to a NAS 110, they have an drivetrain that is arguably inferior. (and they are not legal)
If I was a competitor then why would I say that buying an illegal vehicle is not in anyones best interest. I don't care whether it is this company or any other company.
If someone wants a 110, then either suck it up and mortgage your house and buy a NAS 110 or either build one. They are not that difficult to build and could save you alot of money.
Is buying an illegal vehicle a smart decision.
NO!!
Think about it this way, you have essentially 3 basic choices for getting a 110.
1. Buy a used NAS 110 or one that was legally brought here in the eighties.
2. Build a 110, either as a kit car or whatever.
3. Buy an illegal vehicle.
Consequences of each.
1. Buy NAS, enjoy your truck, nothing illegal, no trouble.
2. Build, enjoy your truck, nothing illegal (as long as kit cars are acceptible in your state), no trouble.
3. Buy illegal, enjoy truck, is illegal, can be held liable for insurance fraud, liable for any possible accident, federal crime, car can be taken from you without any compensation, possible fines.
Hhhhhmmmm!!
If you pick number 3, then thinking about buying an illegal vehicle is the least of your worries!!
I just want to warn those people that are unaware of the risk involved in purchasing. There are better ways to get a 110 than VIN switching.
Cheers.... |
Ron
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 06:41 pm: |
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Anyone know of anyone who has ever been busted for having an illegal 110?
Ron |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 08:24 pm: |
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Ron
If you would just get yours on the road then we would know 1 . J.K. I wish I had the resources to build my own. |
My2cents
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 11:18 pm: |
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I am curious as to the big deal over 110s. I mean a disco wheelbase is more ideal for just about every terrain. A disco can carry just about the same amount of crap.
I mean there is really not an advantage to owning a 110 over a disco(just for example). Yes, there are limited amounts of 110s in the states. So.
I could see building a 110 with a 300tdi and that could come in handy. But you could also throw in a 300 tdi in a disco. As for this guy selling mid-eighties model 110s for $18k+ That is crazy.
If they sold 110s here on a regular basis with diesels then I would probably buy one instead of a disco. however, they don't. So, in my opinion the smartest thing to do would be to get a good disco. They are cheaper to purchase used than even a 20 year old 110.
I am tired of hearing about the 110s. Yes, they are cool and I wouldn't mind having one myself. But I am also not going to spend my money on an over inflated vehicle that is arguably not as good as other good, cheaper, Rovers. |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 01:15 am: |
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Anon thats really funny.
You think if it was illegal I would talk about it?
Ron |
Greg French
| | Posted on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 09:32 am: |
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My2cents...
Yeah. I agree. I already have a Disco and love it. I was just looking for something different. I like the looks of the 110's. I was just looking for other peoples' opinions on the subject. Weighing the pros and cons, you know?
18,000 is more than I paid for my Disco, and it is 13 years newer.
Sounds dumb when you put it like that. But I can't afford the 40-50,000 for a N.A.S, so was looking for an alternative.
Thanks all! |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 11:35 am: |
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Well "trying to help". I said at the end "thanks for the heads up". I renege my statement.
Just because the law says its illegal doesn't make it right.
What’s the difference if I import a 1960 series II 109" land rover and drive it around...? OR I import a 1984 land rover 110 and call it a series rover??
It seems to me it would be in MY best interest and the general public’s best interest if I were driving around in the newer truck with better breaking, acceleration, and handling.
See my point? You get concerned because I’ll claim it as an older truck; well I think that the insurance would cost MORE because it is some old antique truck. So they are actually making more on me, which is fine.
It’s safer for the public if I bring in a 110 rather than a 109 and that's the bottom line, fuck the gov.
I simply don't believe the consequences are as severe as you state.
Rob |
Doug
| | Posted on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 05:11 pm: |
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On the Disco vs. 110 issue-- I've recently "graduated" to an NAS 110 from a Series 1 Disco. I have to say I have a LOT more fun both on and off road. Sure it's a pain in the ass in a lot of ways, but it climbs like a billy goat, carries 9 folks (I took a group of 7 off road for two days in Death Valley with full gear and equipment), is easy to work on, and (so far) holds value. I love Discos too--my son has a Series 2--but being back in the saddle of a series type (had a 109 15 years ago) is a genuine thrill.
Doug |
still trying to help
| | Posted on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 07:18 pm: |
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Rob, actually the penalties are that severe. Someone may never get caught or in trouble,but that doesn't change the fact of what they are doing.
As for the Series trucks, I totally agree that a 110 is safer and should be on the road before a series. I have an old series and as much as I love the truck, I know that a newer vehicle is safer for both myself and others on the road.
As for the insurance cost, my series insurance is freaking cheap, cheap!!
My point in stating what I have is just to inform those that are thinking about the whole VIN switching thing. And basically that it is illegal to do that, and there are consequences if you are caught. You may never get caught, but if you do then there are stiff penalties.
I also agree with you that it is crazy to allow someone to import a 25 year old truck(or older)with little more than a few papers, but we are not allowed to bring in a late model vehicle. Freaking crazy I tell you.
Also, I really don't care if you renege on your statement. I know it isn't right about the import laws. I was just trying to relay info out to those that didn't know. Isn't that one of the points of this board?
I have a scenario for you.
Let's say I know that Switching VIN #s is illegal and there are stiff penalties for that, and someone on this board ask for info on that subject and no one posts about the consequences, then that person proceeds to purchase a vehicle that was illegally imported. Then insures that vehicle under false pretense. Then that person gets in a wreck that is there fault. The insurance company investigates and finds that your vehicle is not legal. The insurance company then declines to pay for the accident, cancels the insurance, and let us also say they were pissed at that person for lying to them and reports the vehicle as being illegal. The gov. could come and take the vehicle and give the owner nothing (they don't have too).
Where does that leave the person?
That leaves them liable for the accident that could cost them thousands (what if someone died, that could cost millions) of dollars, they are without the vehicle and lost all their money they spent on the vehicle which would be more thousands.
However, if I had posted that I knew that switching VIN #s was illegal and that there were consequences, then that person could have avoided the whole thing.
SO, is it worth it to risk all that for an illegally imported 110? Not in any sane person's reality.
Is it right for the gov. to put restrictions and limitations on importations the way they do? Hell NO!!
However, they do have those restrictions and limitations and they can back them up severly.
I posted to let those know that what they were considering doing is illegal, the thread started by someone asking for any advice on this subject and I gave my advice. You don't like the advice I give, ignore it. But my advice is the truth and can have a severe impact on the person.
There are other ways to get a 110, they may cost more now, but could save you alot of money should things go bad.
Take this scenario:
Let us say I did post the facts and that person decides to just suck it up and buy an NAS 110 or build a 110 instead. And say it costs them $35k to do this. However, they have a legal vehicle. They then get into a wreck. The insurance pays the claim (they have no reason not too). The owner is then out their deductible.
Which is the smarter thing to do? Save $15k and buy an illegal vehicle that could possibly cost them thousands if not millions of dollars in the worst possible scenario or spend $35k and their deductible? In my opinion, I would rather take the most secure path and buy a legal vehicle to begin with.
Again, is all this right? No. But it is the law. And yes, I know we all break laws (speeding, etc)but some laws are better left unbroken and in this case, this is one of them.
Anyway, the guy already has a disco and paid less than the 110 costs, so why bother selling a good disco for a 20 year old 110? The advantages, if any, don't outweigh the cost in my opinion.
Anyway, I have said my 2 cents and it is up to the person considering such to take that into account. |
Greg French
| | Posted on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 07:30 pm: |
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And I appreciate it all!
Thanks |
Another way to look at this issue
| | Posted on Saturday, June 08, 2002 - 07:36 pm: |
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Lets say that the '84 110 WAS legal. Should the guy sell a disco that is 13 years newer for that 110? The disco has a better engine, more comfortable, and has arguably a better wheelbase length. Maybe we should look at it like that. Hhhhmmmmm....
Buy a 20 year old 110 for $18k that is not that comfortable, bad heat and no AC, inferior engine, etc. etc.
Or
Buy a late model disco for alot less than $18k that is comfortable, has good heat and A/C, better engine, etc. etc.
The decision seems pretty clear to me. What do you think? |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 11:00 am: |
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all i was saying and i repeat "thanks for the heads up"
but dont post opinion anonomously,,,, it doesn't hold water. if you are a person we know and recognize then that's a whole different story.
if the seller switched vin's it is the buyers resposability to do that kind of research. if it happens the buyer has essentailly have been a victim of fraud.
when i bought my disco i didn't check to see if someone switched the vin numbers, why would i with a 110?
lets say i get in wreck in the 110 and we find out it's been switched, then you sue the person who sold it to you.
now that you've told the potential buyer it's been switched he will be liable too.
lets say i have arich grandma, grandma knows i like 110's and buys me this one you think she'll know the rules or potential shadyness of the deal , i say no, and i can't beleive she would be the liable one.
in this case i think ignorance is bliss.
rd |
Mr. Wizard
| | Posted on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 03:54 pm: |
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Rob,
First off, I'll post however I choose.
Second, there is no reason why the owner(whether he knows it is switched or not) couldn't claim he didn't know about the VIN switching.
You said a person should do the research, well, basically the person that started this thread was doing a type of research by asking the question.
Also, if your grandma buys you the vehicle, and she doesn't know about the whole illegal bit, yes she could claim she didn't know and sue the dealer she purchased it from. She may get some money and may not, the dealer could claim bankruptcy and your grandma gets very little or nothing. What if that were to happen? Your insurance coverage would still be canceled, the insurance company may or may not pay, and you could still possibly lose the vehicle and any money you had in it.
Look, let's end this crap. You and I both know that it is illegal, and now the person that started this thread also knows more about the subject. So, if he chooses to buy that is up to him. There is nothing to argue over here. The law is the law, whether we like it or not. And now the person considering buying has more info.
Have a good day.... |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 11:34 pm: |
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Yes I agree...
This guy has a much better understanding, so why stop.
"The law is the law, whether we like it or not.”
That’s some sad ass commentary, almost like "I was just following orders"
I have really nothing more to say on the subject except I don’t have a problem with what this guy is selling.
Lastly, I don't simply don't believe the severity of your claims. I think it is hearsay
rd |
eric
| | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 12:30 am: |
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huh...
who ever thinks that vin switching is okay, and it is not that big of an issue clearly in the clouds...
i imported my own truck...to import a truck legally you need to go thru a registered importer...the cost for me to import was 15k alone...this makes the truck legal on the federal level and the state level...it needs to be both not one or the other..this guys 110 at the turkys is not legal...if he is bringing in 110 from england and tagging them as 109 he is in for big trouble..btw the government offers a reward leading to the arrest of people that commit fraud like this...maybe i will call and get some $$ for my next truck that i will import in 2005...it will be my second of this type...A mb G wagen...forget importing a 110, hardly worth it..i have a 91 G wagen with diff locks standard..my second G will be on its way in a few years...when its hits the 25 year mark..
about importing in general...there is a reason that the RI has to pay a bond of up to be an RI and there is a reason that there is only a hand ful out there...
BUYER BEWARE IS CORRECT..unless this truck was imported by rovers north or somebody in 1984 new then it is illegal by all accounts...period..!! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 12:01 pm: |
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Eric, why would an vehicle imported by RN be any more legal than a vehicle imported by anybody else |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 01:46 pm: |
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Anon,
unless this truck was imported by rovers north or somebody in 1984 new
In 1984, it was legal to import Defenders on your own. Then, the laws changed, and you now can't.
Rovers North imported several 110s when it was still legal. Those trucks are still around, and if you can find one for sale, are completely legal.
FWIW....
-L |
aclarke
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 12:11 am: |
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Hey. I'd bookmarked that turkys.com web site a while ago as it seemed kind of neat. It's unfortunate to hear about what they might be doing. Anyways, there's an interesting article on Edmunds.com right now about grey market import vehicles, VIN switching, etc. Check out http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/64615/article.html?id=lin9133 if you're interested. They talk about how the police will just arrive at your door and take your vehicle and you have absolutely no recourse. Sucks to be you when that happens. |
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