| Author |
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Sean H
| | Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 03:21 pm: | 
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It sure is nice not to have all those problems with my truck. Since I switched from a 94 D1 to a 94 D90 I have been trouble free (knock on wood). I still enjoy crusing the Discovery page but it's no longer out of necessity. There must be something for us Defender owners to talk about. How about the benifits of retained springs VS cones? My truck needs some longer legs in the spring and I'm not sure how to go about it. She is currently bone stock sans sways and 265/75 BFG MT's. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 05:05 pm: |
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I say you go SG stageIV if you want long legs.  |
Sean H
| | Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 10:57 pm: |
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Not that Long! I would still like to drive it to the trail. All kidding aside this is my dialy driver. I was looking for a few more sensible inches. SG stuff looks long but I here it would loose all road manners. |
Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 12:29 am: |
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talk to John at rovertym he can hook you up with long legs like on the RTE equipped discos on the site..they walk tall |
Kyle
| | Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 11:19 am: |
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You will get all kindsa nice "Features" with a stage IV . Spring and shock noise gallore!!!
Kyle |
Mel A.
| | Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 07:16 pm: |
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We are thinking about getting DMS 50mm coil-overs on our rice-burner (2002 Subaru Impreza WRX, which took my damn parking space in the garage!!). We are told that the car will pull off a +72mph slalom and 1.02g's of grip. I never thought of the noise issue, but what Kyle said does make sense. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 07:30 pm: |
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On a short coil over that just uses one spring I have nevre had spring noise issues. However , on the Rovers ya gotta use two springs per shock and there is a cheesy teflon lined collar that gos between them SO they lighn up correctly with one another. After a bit of time that nice little collar (Ye I am being sarcastic) chews the threads right off the shock body. How much noise do ya think that action makes ??
Kyle |
Troy
| | Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 11:33 pm: |
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Yeah, but its nice for a while at least. Brendan is not complaining so far. He had his truck down at Chili Challenge -- you should've seen the way that thing handled ... on the trail, on washboard roads at speed, and on the highway --- very plush and balanced -- & I didn't hear any noise (though I didn't ride in the truck). He seems to love it. The only thing I didn't care for was the way the truck would lean on a side tilt. Personally, I like to stay (relatively) close to stock, so I'll be sticking with my taller coils and my 2-link front, thank you.
Sean -- a lot of guys like the OME 764s f&r. Personally, I'm running a Bearmach 194 lb rated spring up front and OME 764s rear with the SG-like droop kit and no spacers & I love the set-up. My bushings are probably worn, but I'm surprised at how much travel I get out of my front. I'm ramping over 1000 (forwards) on a 30 degree ramp with 35s with decent balance. I was the smallest D90 at CC & I went everywhere everyone else did plus I was the only D90 besides Brendan who didn't trailer their truck to the event (11 hour drive for me personally). Needless to say I wouldn't head out on an 11 hour road trip in the 90 if the road manners weren't very good-
My nickels worth of thoughts-
Troy
ps-I'll be surprised if SG puts that particular variant of the Stage 4 out -- tons of mods to Brendan's truck to get it to work. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 08:49 am: |
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I have this Discovery here with the coil overs Troy so I have seen how "it works" But the side affects got on my nerves to a point that the rear coils are now off the carriers (Replaced by OME).
If someone were to go through the trouble of getting single long springs made up (Custom spring) for each shock it would probably be a little more durable and easier on the nervs over the long term. The off road performance is definately nice if you can live with all the other crap...
Kyle |
Sean H
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 12:29 pm: |
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Troy,
Sounds like a good direction to go in. What shocks are you using? I would like to stay with 33's. I would like to ramp 1000 but I'm weary of cones. What about retainers? Could I come close to 1000 without cones? Simmonites has front shock monts for 90's that relocate the shock outside of the spring. Any ideas on front travel with a retained front spring with long travel. |
Dee Cantrell (Disco_Dad)
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 01:56 pm: |
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Kyle,
Have you seen or experienced the Blisteines 9100's coil overs on a D1? |
Kyle
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 03:39 pm: |
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No Dee but the coil overs are really all the same. Its just an threaded aluminum tube with some good stuff on the inside. All of them are infinately adjustable and can be re valved pretty easy , so , tube size is really the only consideration... You will probably wanna valve them for your taste anyway..
kyle |
Dee Cantrell (Disco_Dad)
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 04:33 pm: |
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Kyle,
Thanks, I have been kicking around coil over idea. I have never driven a Disco with them, seems to be pros and cons all over about that.
The 9100 I held one a few weeks ago and it looked to be a well designed setup, Not as flimsy as some of the other ones I have seen.
It looks like it could take what you throw at it, is there anybody out there running them?
Another interesting setup, I had seen a picture of a Full size Dodge Truck with what appeared to be a well engineered coil over "Skyjacker" system.
By initial glance it looks like it might be good system for the Discos and Defenders
How much to modify it to fit a Disco is the problem. I might have to do the AutoCAD thing and see if it is worth the effort.
Or just be lazy and go with plan B and install a set of the OME LTR's. To satisfy my remote reservoir quest
The LTR probably being a more sensible approach. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 05:23 pm: |
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I think Ho still has a new set of race runners he wants to sell , you should E mail him...
Kyle |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 05:49 pm: |
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i still have the race runners from sway-a-way... 10 inch travel, 2.5 inch body...
but you know,
Dee, just go with the lazy plan. |
Dee Cantrell (Disco_Dad)
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 06:57 pm: |
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Ho,
I think your right
Ill go the Lazy route on the Disco. I guess i could call this the CB approach, LOL |
chrisvonc
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 07:19 pm: |
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dont be selling off my coil overs.
LOL
Chris |
Troy
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 01:05 am: |
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Sean,
I'm running Rancho 9207s up front and 9012s out back. I'm also running Rockware's rear shock mounts. The SG droop system is different from cones (check the SG website for pics). I ran cones on my Disco & didn't like them at all. With SG droop system I only get about 1.5, maybe 2" more down travel with it (though SG claims you get 4"), but it still works well.
So, to answer your question -- you can ramp over 1000 (on a 30 degree ramp) without cones -- I am. However, with bigger tires, you generally will ramp a little better. Which actually brings up a point -- the 35" MT/Rs aren't true 35s. They measure closer to 34" when mounted. Just something to consider if you haven't bought tires yet -- but you will need to regear ... even with 33s I would imagine.
As far as moving the front shocks out of the spring - I've toyed with the idea. I'm using every bit of the 9207 up front and think I could squeeze a little more travel out of the front if I retained the front, moved the shock out and went with a longer shock (I believe the 9207 has just shy of 10" of travel... wh/ actually translates into more travel at the wheel). I don't know, maybe use the 9012 (14" of travel, if I remember correctly). So, yeah, I think you can get a bit more travel out of the front-
Troy |
JEEPETR
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 08:27 am: |
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Hey Troy,
Before you spend too much time/money/effort switching over to longer Rancho Shocks in the front, consider this. If you are running 10" travel shocks in the front, you have about reached the Maximum for front end articulation, unless you plan to run a hinged arm, or three link. It's just the design, the only flex comes from the bushings, so once they reach full compression, you're done.
For the gentleman asking about his Discovery, IMHO, A 10" Travel front, and 10" inch travel rear shock will lead to a nicely balanced Rover suspension, with considerable gains in articulation over stock. The OME LTR shock, however, is no longer travel than any other OME shock, and is really a misnomer. I think that the Bilstein is a better shock, though you will need a different upper rear mount to run these (not that big of a deal). For Bolt on, you could always get a set of Safari Gard's stage two Fox's. These are 10" travel F/R but bolt up to stock mounts, no creativity needed, but large check book required (though they are probably no more than the highly over priced OME LTRs). Greg really marks these specialty shocks up. And unless you are running sustained high speeds in the desert, a remote reservoir shock is just for show. You will not get any performance advantage from the remote reservoir, it is designed to give added oil volume to help maintain lower oil temperatures in shocks that are being worked hard from high speed running over rough terrain. To move into greater travel, with a balanced suspension you will need to consider freeing up the front end with a hinged arm, three link or other design....
~Scott T.
'95 D-90 (JEEPETR)
'96 Discovery (5-Speed) |
Sean H
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 10:23 am: |
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Who out there is running a hinged radius arm with good results. Where do I purchse one and are they reliable? |
JEEPETR
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 11:44 am: |
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Hey Sean,
Many of the D-90 List guys are running the Hinged arm, and the Classic Bronco Crowd has been using it for years. Everyone I have spoken to that is running it loves it, and cannot say enough about it. There is a Classic Bronco guy named Quinn that introduced the Land Rover Crowd to the idea (He is a Bronco and Land Rover nut). The Classic Bronco and Land Rover front Suspension design is as near as identical as you will find.
Advantages are that you pin the arm for street use, and there is no change in suspension design, but when you leave the pavement, you pull the pin, and relieve the Binding in the Suspension. You get lots of extra flex. If you want more details, or how to contact Quinn about modifying an arm for you, drop me an e-mail....
~Scott T.
'95 D-90 (JEEPETR)
'96 Discovery (5-Speed) |
JEEPETR
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 12:34 pm: |
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Let me See if I can get this to work....
~Scott T. |
Sean H
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 01:54 pm: |
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scott,
I have seen the arm on the D90 source. How do I get one? |
Troy
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:42 am: |
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Scott,
I know you're point about max front articulation. I've been there when I built up my Disco. As I mentioned earlier however, I get more travel out of the stock 2-link on my D90, than I ever did with the Disco (even though I'm using the same springs and shocks). Maybe my bushings are worn (though, there are no visible cracks), but the shocks are the limiting factor on my front end right now -- not the bushings. At full droop the shock is fully extended and the spring is just starting to unseat. There's not going to be a whole lot more flex out of the front, but there's still some to be had. Is it worth moving the shocks outside of the springs? -- to me, at this point -- no ... maybe later though. The truck is well balanced considering the 2-link front (20 degree ramp #'s are something close to 1150 forwards, 1040 rear, if memory serves me correctly).
Sean-
Do your research on the hinged arm before you jump. They do increase travel, but may not be right for your type wheeling. Rich Hills would be the guy to talk to about the physics of it all (he's a physics prof at NMSU), but the hinged arm works better on the Bronco because the radius arms are closer to the centerline of the truck, which translates into a more stable truck, especially when climbing steep rocky waterfalls or running side tilts. Not to say it doesn't work --- it does. Also, I've heard a couple of reports of driver's side radius arm frame mounts (that is the unhinged side) developing cracks -- even when it was unpinned just for off-road use. If you brake hard with the arm unpinned all the braking force goes the the unhinged side -- something it wasn't designed for. It's just what you are willing to put up with. As Scott said, though, a lot of guys love them. Just make sure you know what you're getting into.
Speaking of Rich, he ran an interestingly designed hinged arm at Chili Challenge this year. It was first hinged arm I've seen that I really liked. The only way to describe it is to say it's semi-hinged. When unpinned, Rich's design still keeps a 1/3rd of the locating force on the hinged arm (unlike Quinn's design which dumps all the axle locating force on the unhinged side).
I'm not even going to try to describe it -- you just need to see a picture.... which I don't have unfortunately.
Troy |
Johnathan
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:06 pm: |
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Hey T-
Your rig is balanced and you do have more front travel than most stock setups I've seen. Don't know about the #s: (20 degree score x .684 = 30 degree score) 1150 X .684 = 787, 1040 X .684 = 711
Johnathan |
Johnathan
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:48 pm: |
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PS- The only reason I trailered my rig to the CC was the 28 hour drive...each way
Johnathan |
Troy
| | Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 12:16 am: |
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Oh, come on ... you didn't want to drive cross country on those rusted out series 15" rims with... what were those----26" tires?!!!
Not sure about those scores either. At CC I ramped just over 1000 on that ramp -- at Solaros (the 20 degree) I was thinking it was 11-something forwards and I know it was over 1000 bacwards-
Troy |
jason
| | Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 05:07 pm: |
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I currently have a 95 disc. I have been looking at a few 94 d90s with fairly high miles 100,000....any suggestions? What can I expect with a high mileage D90? Would it be a suitable every day driver?
thanks a lot.
Jason |
Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 03:41 pm: |
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I know a guy that has one with about 120K on the clock it seems to be doing fine..I drove one with 75k it drove well |
Troy
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 12:30 am: |
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Just do your checking, like any other used car ----Buyer Beware. Get a carfax report & if you don't know a lot about them, bring along a friend who does. Allow, at least, an extra $1000 after purchase to take care of any "problems" that may arise.
As far as a daily driver ...D90s leak water in rain storms (wagons and soft tops), are loud, the gas mileage is dismal, & insurance is high. But, besides that, they're awesome. It all boils down to what you can live with.
Troy |
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