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What is it about Discovery owners that make them so rude ?

DiscoWeb Message Board: General - Non Tech: What is it about Discovery owners that make them so rude ?

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By xoc on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:39 am: Edit

Kyle and Brian, and some other people from discoweb.org decided to come to the Xterra Owners Club and start making fun of people.

They claim the Discovery is vastly superior to the Xterra, which it is in most cases. They then seemed to get bored, so they started hurling profanities at everyone, even claiming the had fucked someone's mother the night before.

So I ask you this... are all of you stuck up, 21 year old brats driving a Disco that mom bought you ? And if you are, why don't you have an education ? Secondly, is discoweb.org such a boring site that you must seek out entertainment elsewhere ?

By Kyle on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 08:28 pm: Edit

Ian , I think I met like with like over there... I also invited them all over here freely... If they be rude or not...

Kyle

By badams on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 09:02 pm: Edit

XOC, you are quite right! We are all 21 year old stuck up brats. In fact, the dealership required me to prove my age, and bring my mom down to the dealership before they would hand over the car.
After all no one under 21 could have a real job and afford a new car Thank you for your brilliant generalizations, and powerful insight ...

I am extremely sorry you had to waste your valuable time and tear yourself away from your "entertaining" website only to "seek out" our boring site.

Have fun in your frontier ...

By Milan on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 09:04 pm: Edit

I'm just surprised Kyle did not throw anybody/anything out the window.

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:41 am: Edit

Damn, did you guys really do that?

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 02:30 am: Edit

I'm totally shocked.

By gp (Garrett) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 02:49 am: Edit

uh oh....i feel a 'girls in the office' thread coming on!!
wish i was 21, but this aging thing has me up to almost 31 now. ouch.
if you took the time and read much of the past posts here you would see that most of us don't have the major duckets to go out and buy *stuff* for our trucks at the drop of a hat. usually we are looking at the cheapest solution to get our trucks to be the most capable that they can be. i.e. using stock springs from the rear and putting them up front to get the lift desired by many and saving about $150 in the process.
and if you are trying to say we are just a bunch of ignorant folk. well i guess you got us there XOC......maybe you should take a look some of the past posts to see what we do for a living. we may not be the corporate crowd you may associate with, but more of a down to earth crowd made up of a good cross section of just about every profession i can think of. uneducated.....i think not dipshit. oops....sorry about that.....just slipped. just my ignorance kickin' in.
well maybe kyle and brian said some some things they shouldn't have......but then again maybe they should have. but there is no need to get your panties in a bunch about this.
but you are right about one thing.....i didn't buy my truck. MY company did. one that i started with MY money.

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 03:54 am: Edit

Its kinda hard to argue with a guy that feels the internal combustion engine is "Out dated" but has nothing at all to back his statements. Well , he did have mileage numbers....

Kyle

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 03:56 am: Edit

what is the URL? i wanna read!

tom

By Jeeper Brian (Jb1) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:18 am: Edit

Howdy Folks,

They had nothing to support their arguments,,,,,

Kyle came over to get technical and they just couldn't. As for me, I went to start trouble and see how these guys would be - you know, be 'the resident asshole'. After all, that's what I am isn't it?

Well, I've pissed them off for sure, and now I've left. They got waaaaay too offended :-) Couple od threats showed up in my Inbox! I'm sure I've pissed off alot of you guys as well, I can certainly be 'abrasive' (eh Kyle?), but I've helped alot around here and been here for awhile (with the exception of my latest 'E! True Hollywood Story') and helped alot of Disco guys. Likewise, I've received alot of help. Thanks for being so great on this 'boring site'. hehe

Brian

By evilron on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:34 am: Edit

what is the URL?

evilron

By EvilRonsFriend on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:38 am: Edit

http://www.xterraownersclub.com

Ron, play nice!

By Anotheranonahole on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:39 am: Edit

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002879

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:42 am: Edit

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/forums.html

enjoy

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:42 am: Edit

Damn, you guys beat me to it..

By Ron on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:42 am: Edit

What are you talking about?

who is evilron?

Ron

By evilron on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:42 am: Edit

you're a schitzophrenic

By Ron on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:43 am: Edit

no I am not, shutup!

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:48 am: Edit

Brian,

Who's the cutie in the yellow sweater??

-L

PS: I'm SO glad my wife doesn't surf the web!

By Brian on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:56 am: Edit

Actually, I dated all three of those girls my senior year of HS. The one in the yellow, I dated into college. Daddy owned a jet and she lived in NM with another house on 7 Mile Beach on Grand Cayman, so we had it pretty good :-)

The one on top moved to Cali after we all wnet to college in VT, but her Daddy got in alot of trouble. Do a web search on Claude DuBoc...

Brian

By gp (Garrett) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 11:04 am: Edit

brian. where did you go to school in VT? UVM, St. Mikes? and when?

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 11:19 am: Edit

Dude!

I remember about F. Lee getting into serious trouble over stocks.... so her dad's the one that started that ball rolling, eh?

Small world at times, no?

Tell your ex (the one in yellow) that some bloke has a crush on her! (J/K!!!)

-L

By gp (Garrett) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 11:27 am: Edit

no your not leslie!!!

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit

Garrett,

Uh......

Here's the lesson: Tomorrow's my 12th anniversary, and I'm not yet 30. So, I didn't "sow my wild oats"....

I'm a good guy, but.... I AM a guy....

At least my wife is understanding enough to not get mad when I put a pic of Shakira up as the wallpaper on my laptop! (I LOVE belly dancers!)

-L

By gp (Garrett) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 11:57 am: Edit

are you referring back to SCOTS again with the belly dancer thing??
12 years......pretty damn impressive. i am turning 31 in jan. and i am still working on getting engaged!!! hehe. maybe it's my sarcastic personality that keeps it that way.

yeah you are lucky that the wife does not surf dweb. my girlfriend does from time to time now and got pissed when i mentioned on this board that i saw a hottie in a white D1 here in town. i am not even married. what gives??!!!

hey......happy anniversary.

ps: play the "snack cracker" song tomorrow for your anniversary. i am sure she will appreciate that.

By brian on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:26 pm: Edit

Garrett, I went to UVM...but left Burlington in 99. Only been back once since then for reggae night at RJs.

L- Yup, small world, that's her Pops.

Brian

By PissedOffXterra on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:26 pm: Edit

What sort of yuppy assholes do you guys really aspire to be? Stop trolling the Xterra board with uneducated/uniformed and antagonistic crap. Most of you guys don't know a thing about off-roading and your harsh attitude does little to mask it. You have ridiculed yourself publicly on a site that has much larger readership than your own. You have also succeeded in eroding whatever credibility Rover pays dearly to create. Stop wasting our time.

By damned proud Disco owner on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Obviuosly we do know a thing or two abour off-roading because we bought Land Rovers

If I wanted to look "cool" I probably would by an X. I can assure you that the roof rack...err...I mean grocery basket on top can hold my recovery gear,tent and jerry cans. When I do shoot my self in the ass, that integrated first aid kit will some in handy.

By Ron on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:34 pm: Edit

why don't use use your name? Or is your name POX?

Kyle and Rob and Brian did?

They proved what everyone here already knew, the Xxbox is a little POS. Like two people take them "off road" and those will be dead soon.

Its a poseur rig. which is cool but to think your all hot shit and what not is just not right. At least I know I am not hot shit.

Ron

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:36 pm: Edit

Hmmm, I don't remember posting on the Xterra board but, I guess I'm a yuppy asshole any way cause I have a Discovery.. PissedOffXterra you're a feltcher.. What, you mad at every one that has a land rover now cause a few people picked on you and your friends? So you going to take it out on every one. What ever.. That is just stupid..

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Shuddup you idiot (poxterra). All you little children throwing pebbles at each other on the playground make me laugh. Eventually you get in my way, which upsets me to a small degree. Stop wasting everybody's time and email me offline if you'd like to discuss this further. I actually have some valid questions regarding the xterra that perhaps you can answer; I'm looking at a 2wd for my wife because she thinks they're cute and we need something bigger for her to cart the baby & groceries around in.

By 94Rover on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:39 pm: Edit

Lets end this before it gets to be over 330 replies. It's getting silly. Happy Gobble Gobble!

By Andre X on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:44 pm: Edit

It's quite obvious to me that certain members of your LR community have inferiority issues. They seek to gain a feeling of superiority by trolling other boards, (Jeep, Xterra) and making claims which they can not or will not back up. Instead people like Kyle dance around the issues that are raised and never really answer any of the questions that are asked of him. In the end, what we are left with is 23 pages of arguements about what is considered an "old" engine design.

While these tactics might be entertaining for someone who has no life beyond the internet, they strike me as being truly pathetic. I for one have never wanted a Land Rover, I am very pleased with my Xterra. But now I find myself thinking that all Land Rover owners are crying out for attention. and purchasing these vehicles as status symbols. It's a projection of your elitist mentality. I pity you. :D

By PissedOfXterra on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:53 pm: Edit

The vehicle does not make the driver but quite the opposite. Off-roading requires finesse and experience (not to mention some humility) which all seem to lack. I don't care which vehicle you drive, I have seen your pics and your attitude and you're all wannabees. Learn some manners and some netiquette and we'll start listening and stop whining like crying babies cause we ain't taking you seriously.

By Andre X on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:53 pm: Edit

While I'm at it... here's something you people might be interested in.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:04 pm: Edit

Well post some decent questions boys and lets all stop the name calling.... That means all of us , not just the X boys....

Kyle

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:04 pm: Edit

OK, I'll type very slowly so you can follow: How many Land Rovers have been built and sold in the history of Land Rover? More than two? More than five? Yes. How many Land Rover owners have you had contact with in your most recent saga which prompted your post? More than two? More than five? No. How can you therefore comment on the entire Land Rover community? Who seems to be crying out for attention here? Who has the elitist mentality? Who needs pity now? Go home.

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:06 pm: Edit

Naaa , dont tell em ta go home. lets just turn the volume down a bit. I had enough of that yesteraday... ofcourse , if thats all anyone wants to do is call names then so be it. They might just have something to say though...

Kyle

By JC on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:09 pm: Edit

PissedOffXterra,
I didn't see one person in that discussion who was ready or willing to talk tech with Kyle, and to your dismay many people on this site know about off-roading, several doing cross country and cross continent expeditions, and some of the roughest terrain available short of the insane gonzo rockcrawling, which is more suited for the D-90s and rock buggies. Where is Nissan's history of expedition work? Eroded our credability? Well if from reading through the discussions on this site you gather that we are a group of uninformed yuppies, who run to the dealer to fix our problems, well then you're entitled to you oppinion. Feel free to attack me and my credability. Do I do all my work? NO. Can I explain engine management systems? NO. Do I do lots of offroading? NO, but I'd like to. Hell I don't even know another person that owns a Rover, Xterra, Jeep or otherwise.

"But now I find myself thinking that all Land Rover owners are crying out for attention. and purchasing these vehicles as status symbols. It's a projection of your elitist mentality. I pity you."

I'm really tired of reading all this elitist shit. I bout my Disco 3 years ago for $9500. Why, because I wanted one, b/c I've grown up around British Cars, and I wanted something to offroad. I could care less about Rovers image, what it boils down to is the vehicle made me happy...thats what really matters right? I'm in this for the fun of it, and I'll wheel with anyone, I don't care what they drive, or how much they know. I think everyone is taking this stuff wwwaaaayyy to seriously.

ps: Brian, that hottie gotta phone #....j/k

By Andre X on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:10 pm: Edit

I don't hear anyone condemning the actions of the few Landy owners who bashed away at the Xterra... Bluegill, if you don't want us to lump you all together as elitist snobs, you should try to show that you are different from the likes of Kyle and Brian. K?

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:12 pm: Edit

Actually , quote my "Bashing". I said two things , it was a rip off , and that it wasnt a complete rip off cause it wasnt as much of a truck.... That about what you got Andre ?

Kyle

By Steve (Steve2) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:15 pm: Edit

i went over to XOC to throw in my $0.02 - and they are not taking any more new registrations!

my sister used to work for NMC back in the 80's. one day she brought back a nissan hard body pick up truck. i took it off roading much in the same way i took a toyota pick up wheeling. it was all very light stuff - running over some dry bushes, stepping over rocks etc. washed the truck up and it was turned back in. later we were notified that the truck was virtually destroyed as the torsion bars were about to snap up into the passenger compartment (possibly causing bodily injury or death!) with about $10,000 in damage.

now i'm sure they have improved the xterra since then - but my same sister who still works in the auto industry says there are only four mfgs of cars that make trucks to actually go off roading

land rover
toyota
isuzu
jeep

anything else will not stand up long term.

i wish i could of posted this on the XOC but cannot. also - i drove the Xterra (which is a design rip off of the disco) found the cabin to be too naroow, and the motor to be a bit sluggish.
also i paind less for my 99 disco a 1 year old then a new xterra cost. the best thing about owning a disco though is the quality of the people that also own the product. the folks at ICS/ truck haven were perhaps the best bunch of people i've ever had the privelage of meeting.

steve

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:20 pm: Edit

No, Andre, I'm really not any different than Kyle & Brian. In fact, I kind of like those two nutcases... They wheel, they get dirty workin on their rigs, and they say some fucked up shit at all the wrong times. No need to separate myself from that crowd. What I don't appreciate is someone like yourself getting in my face and assuming I'm an asshole. You can only call me an asshole after I personally show that side of myself to you. Understand?

Now, please tell me a bit about your xterra. I really don't know anything about them, other than what they look like from the outside (never crawled under one). I just rode in one for the first time the other day, and it rode pretty nice, but I don't personally like the "sports car" seating with your legs out in front of you rather than down below (you sit more upright in a Disco). How is the xterra contstructed? Unibody? Frame? Please explain to me how the suspension works. Coil sprung? Live axles or independent? Tell me about the engine. Like I said, I'm seriously looking at one for my wife.

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:22 pm: Edit

you know, i really dig the yellow ones.

By DenimX on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Basically, the whole things was that a few people from Discoweb decided to come and make trouble. We didn't ask for any problems. We were happy living in our community and you living in yours. There was really no reason for the name calling and the aggrevation. Call me a troll. Call me names. Fine- I can deal with it. All I'm saying is that we're all acting like a bunch of little kids in the time old discussion "My dad can beat up your dad." I mean, god, after everything this country has been through, we still can't put aside petty differences? Grow up. Everyone- Xterra and Discovery people.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:28 pm: Edit

that's what my wife wants - a yellow one! New front bumper, full roof rack, black rims & MT's, not lookin too bad, eh Ho?

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:29 pm: Edit

Andre X... I don't hear anyone on the Xterra board condemning the actions of your fellow posters either.. I'm sure it won't happen. I don't care what you drive. I like to go wheeling and mostly I go with Jeepers.. Sure they pick on me cause I have a Discovery and they have 6 inch lifts and 35's but, so what.. They are still good people and a little friendly ribbing never hurt any one. I don't get why anyone would be so wrapped up in a car or any material object to get all worked up over some one saying it sucks. Every body has their opinion. So Andre X, Pissedoffxtera and XOC if you are in the Va area you want to go wheeling? I'll wheel with you if you lose the "all Land Rover owners are pricks" attitude and just want to have a good time.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:33 pm: Edit

But what if "my dad can beat up your dad"? Am I truly petty for wanting to form my own conclusion on that topic? What is "everything this country has been through" really all about? Hmmmm....the Taliban believed that their dad could beat up ours....I believe that we have definitively proved them wrong.

So, back to basics...please tell me some technical info about the xterra so that I may form a conclusion based on technical facts. You know, "apples to apples" and all that shit...

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:35 pm: Edit

See that's what I don't get Denim X.. Why does everyone want to just stick with their little groups.. You never know what you could be missing doing that.. Do you guys only go wheeling with other Xterra owners? Or do you go with Jeeps, Fords, Chevy's, what? Never quite understood that.. Anyone know of some plain old wheeling boards that aren't biased toward one vehicle or another? Could learn alot there.

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:38 pm: Edit

yeah blue, yellow ones are cool. get one and do the pikachu thing.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:40 pm: Edit

now me, I like the blue ones

By Ron on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:41 pm: Edit

Eric.

try the pirate 4x4 board

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Come on - where's the technical info I need? I have not the patience to surf through the sales glitz at the Nissan webpage nor to deal with the dealer's salesman bullshit. I want to hear it from the boys who wheel these trucks.

By DenimX on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 01:58 pm: Edit

We've invited people to come with us all the time. But, because we are Xterra owners, we usually wheel with Xterras. However, anyone that wants to run with us is welcome. My group was going to have two LRs with us, but they backed out for some reason. I for one would have liked to have them around b/c I wanted to see what they're capable of.

As for the whole Taliban thing- You misunderstood me. The whole "what this country's been through" had to do with our relationships with each other. Our country has united into more of a family than just a bunch of citizens. The bickering between people is sensless. Do you honestly think the firefighters at Ground Zero were "No, only NYFD people can work here b/c we have better experience in NYC?" I doubt it. What I'm trying to say is that life is short. Nobody knows what can happen. Would you like it if your last impression of somebody was negative? I doubt it.

As for the information section- I have no problem with somebody coming over and taking a poke around looking for information. But when people start to antagonize others for no reason, then I think we have problems. Asking questions about technical matters and flaming a whole community are totally different.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 02:04 pm: Edit

OK, glad we have all that cleared up. Points well taken. Now, how does the xterra work? How's it put together? Are you happy with it for daily driving (which is what the 2wd I'm looking at will be used for)? I'm also curious if you're happy with it for aggresive off-road use. Maybe I'll end up with a 4wd - if I do, it'll end up getting modified and used...hard. Just what I need, another toy to throw $$$ at...

By SlightlyLessPissedOffXterra on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 02:12 pm: Edit

The Xterra has a body on frame construction. The chassis as the engine come from the Frontier. It is a tried and true design which explains the X has had very few issues for a new vehicle. We got a solid axle in the back, IFS in the front. The base V6 (excluding the supercharger which is new for 20002) has 170 hp. I can't recall the torque top of my head. The X has plenty of power in low range. The X is (of course) a part time 4 wheel drive system with 2H, 4H and 4L. Very dependable vehicle and most people who have them are extremely pleased with it.

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 02:18 pm: Edit

So who is locked over there ? Axles issues ? What kind of limping ability you seeing ?

kyle

By Jeeper Brian (Jb1) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 02:28 pm: Edit

A quote....from me

"Ok folks, from what I've read here, you all are a bunch of posers...and then one asshole goes and insults the
Disco, even though he has no technical experience with one. The fact is, a good driver is the most important
modifaction, but vehicle wise? The XTerra blows on anything more than a dirt road.

Hey Mike H, your pansy shit with lots of toys...you wanna challenge? First we run Farmington, Las Cruces or
Pritchett Canyon (your choice) then drive from Florida to Alaska and back to Florida. Come on..."

That's how it started. Sorry that everyone got so pissy. I say the same shit when I wheel with Jeeps, Yotas and Rovers! I'm kinda testy sometimes. As for the personal insults...well I'm quick to type some nasty shit...and I always regret it. Hey, you live and learn! I apologized and left the discussion and site. Can't do any more than that.

As to being yuppies?...Man I wish more of us were rednecks. They're my friends, not the yuppies. I think of everyone here as a friend, not a yuppie, but I see the yuppies in the Rovers downtown at Starbucks!

Couldn't put it on the X Site,
Brian

ps Xers, thabnks for the emails...and I'm not bipolar.

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 02:58 pm: Edit

http://www.rfspecialists.com/lrx/Badlands/badlands3.htm

stirstirstir
hehe

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 03:04 pm: Edit

They posted that on the other board. Doesnt say much really. If getting stuck is the worst that could happen to us we would all be in damn good shape...

Kyle

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 03:09 pm: Edit

yeah, I know....
It's there more to show we go wheeling with other makes and don't stick to a narrow minded group.
Don't have any pix of other makes yanking the LR out of the shit - too busy steering !
Hell - we even wheel with Toy's (and then break em)...

keith
discosaurus

By Andre X on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 03:19 pm: Edit

Bluegill, dude... put the crack pipe down. I didn't call you an asshole. Lighten up. As far as info on the VG 33E 6-cyl engine, you might try the archives at XOC or Nissanoffroad.net. The engine is extremely reliable and has considerable torque. Xterras are IFS with leaf springs in back. The biggest complaint of Xterra owners has been the differential which has been less than reliable. If you are really interested, I invite you to come over to XOC and use the search feature. If you are interested in playing the "my dad can beat up your dad game," you will probably win. I assume that owning a Landy is kinda like owning an MG. Its part attitude and part religion. The Xterra is no different. It would be nice if you would give other people's rides a little bit of respect.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 03:30 pm: Edit

OK, thanks. So far we have the following on the xterra:
body on frame construction
solid rear axle
IFS front suspension
base V6 170 hp @ ? rpm
torque ? @ ? rpm
part time 4 wheel drive 2H, 4H and 4L

How much redesigning went into the body before mounting it on frontier chassis (is it as simple as enclosing rear cabin & adding rear seats)? Does the frontier have rear coil springs, or do I remember leaf springs? What are spring rates & cargo carrying / towing capacity? What about shock absorbers - are stock any good? I'm also curious as to how the 4wd operates - mechanical or electrical engagement? Does 4L act as locking center differential? Viscous coupling? What do front & rear lockers do for the xterra? Any standard features like ABS, traction control, etc? Is power group (doors, windows, cruise, etc) an option? Standard tire make, model, size? Where's that spare stashed? With a tailgate-mounted knobby full-size spare, the xterra would really look great. What are body panels made of? You guys have any underbody pictures you can post? How's that rear axle kept in line?

check out the xterra next to the rolled rangie with custom plywood roof (also an old wagoneer visible and a really old willy's off the photo to the left):
http://www.discoweb.org/billgill/woodrangie.jpg

By Andre X on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 03:38 pm: Edit

Oh, might I add, I already went through the British built phase with, (you might have guessed it), an MG. I got to know the inner workings of the car like some of you seem to know the palms of your hands... JUST KIDDING!!! :D Most of the time I was forced to learn because of breakdowns. The Xterra is a vehicle that I don't have to immerse myself in right away. I can take my time with it.

As far as off roading goes, stock verses stock, the Landy wins. I don't see too many people disputing that... Is that what you guys want to hear? Here's the kicker, I respect the Disco as a vehicle, but I haven't found any of you that I can respect. If you are a shithead, and you drive a Disco... you're still a shithead. And after the XOC stunt, I seriously doubt any of us Xterra drivers want to be anything like you.

By Andre X on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 03:43 pm: Edit

Bluegill... Give me a few hours to do your homework, K? And while I'm at it... are there any term papers or financial reports you'd like for me to do. I wouldn't want you guys to strain yourselves looking for information on the web or anything. Finding information is much easier when someone else gathers it, then regurgitates it to you. Its kinda like feeding a baby bird.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 03:51 pm: Edit

Andre snuck in there with some technical info and answered some of my questions. Thanks.

"Bluegill, if you don't want us to lump you all together as elitist snobs, you should try to show that you are different from the likes of Kyle and Brian. K?"

I took that as calling me an asshole, more or less. But don't worry, I'm a big boy and can take it. I also don't see where I have neglected to show your xterra respect. If "my disco can beat up your xterra", I would like to know from a purely objective point of view so I can decide if I think the x is a good value. I'm not trying to be king of the mtn - I really don't care about that. I also don't smoke crack - I'm just too damn scared to cruise the "early president streets" to pick up the supplies. LOL no worries here, just the facts.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 03:58 pm: Edit

Whoa, Andre...not assigning homework here, I just figured that you guys would know some vehicle statistics, or know what direction to point me in to get them. The Nissan web page is long on sales & short on facts. Anyone who so vehemently defends their own & attacks mine certainly at least knows their own facts, or where to access the references, don't they? I'll take your advice and search your tech info sections on your bboard. Serious wheelers start with knowledge, not just the stupid pedal & a lead foot.

"Finding information is much easier when someone else gathers it, then regurgitates it to you. Its kinda like feeding a baby bird."

EXACTLY...now you're catching on. Is it too much to ask for you to cut & paste a link, or type in what you know?

By jay caragay (Jcaragay) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:29 pm: Edit

I am surprised to find this topic on what is a typically happy website. After reading some of the posts here on Dweb, I took a look at XOC.com and I can't seem to understand the need to go there and issue challenges - especially if you don't own or use an Xterra.

I mean 23 pages on the XOC website is alot of BS about nothing important: LR v. Xterra.

And who really is driving the poseurs vehicles? Aren't we the ones who are driving vehicles made by a manufacturer who touts off-road capability to a market that takes theirs to the local mall and soccer fields? Most of us are not using current model vehicles for our exploits and alot of people have expressed their displeasure with the latest models, not to mention the upcoming Rangie model.

In the first 4 pages of the XOC thread, Xterra owners openly admitted that they thought the Disco was superior to the Xterra - they liked the economy, look, value, whatever of the Xterra over the Disco. Is that such a bad thing?

If Xterra owners admit that the Disco is superior - what more is the argument?

I for one am disappointed by the actions of our fellow Land Rover owners in this instance.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:36 pm: Edit

"And who really is driving the poseurs vehicles? Aren't we the ones who are driving vehicles made by a manufacturer who touts off-road capability to a market that takes theirs to the local mall and soccer fields?"

I think poseur is a trait best assigned to the driver, not the vehicle. I also think poseur is really a relative term at best.

By Moe on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 04:42 pm: Edit

Jay, I share your dissapointment and wonder when the chest beating Discoboys will show up on the Ford Escape forum.

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 05:06 pm: Edit

I think the entire issue is pointless. I chose to drive a Disco. Some other dude chose to drive an Xterra. So what, it's a free country. What is the point in invading their website to trash their vehicle choice? A pissing contest accomplishes absolutely nothing except generate bad blood. It proves nothing. The Xterra owners admitted that stock vs stock, the Disco is superior. They are probably right. But a good driver in an Xterra can still outdrive a bad driver in a Disco any day. Live and let live, and move on to the next topic.

By Andre X on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 05:23 pm: Edit

Sorry Bluegill if the "crack pipe" comment was misunderstood... its a running joke on XOC. And my snippy response about finding and linking Xterra specs was based on the fact that when someone posts a redundant question on XOC, they are imediately told to "USE THE SEARCH ENGINE!!!"

If you can't find enough technical info on XOC, you might try http://www.xterra4x4.com/

There's all sorts of info there about shackles, shocks, lift kits, torsion bars, pretty much whatever you want to talk about. If you can't find the info there, you'll probably find someone who knows it off the top of their heads.

Nice chatting with you.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!!

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 05:38 pm: Edit

We have the same running joke. No offense taken

P.S. I'll bet my Thanksgiving day turkey can beat up yours.

By Todrick on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 05:49 pm: Edit

just wanted to chime in here...

im an X owner...

and i just wanted to say the last 5-10 posts are great... we should all be happy that we drive the vehicles we are happy with and drive them like they should be driven...OFF-ROAD!!!

all you Disco owners have a happy gobble-gobble day

By Brian Jackson (Nerover) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:00 pm: Edit

Cheers to all of that Todrick,

Tonight is the biggest party night after New Year's...uh oh.

The X ain't that bad and shit got way out of hand. I just like to be an instigator sometimes...but, like I posted above...I'm sorry it went so far and I typed too fast, in anger, and got so personal.

Happy Turkey Eatin,
Brian

By Andre X on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:12 pm: Edit

[Quote from Bluegill-"P.S. I'll bet my Thanksgiving day turkey can beat up yours."]

In an effort to diffuse what is potentially a hostile situation.... We're having a Thanksgiving day HAM! Ham rules, turkey drools!

Rob Davidson's comments on XOC still have me searching for an expiration date on my disposable Xterra.

Any ideas? On second thought... never mind.

By Moe on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:20 pm: Edit

. . expiration date. LOL. Judging by all the early work done on my '96 Disco, I think it expired two months after arriving on US soil.

Blue, I just slapped your Discoweb sticker on my 'free range' turkey's rear panel. Is your run of the mill, butterball, really up to the challenge? This is one CAPABLE turkey.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Hah - we're having turkey day catered. Us Roverphiles can afford such luxuries!!! Once again, I succesfully dodged the "who makes the tday dinner" bullet. phew! Do you know how valuable that stickered turkey is now?

and I'm outta here.......

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:28 pm: Edit

It all started with an Xterra boy flapping about this site. Thats where it all started... THey are over there now flapping about sending malicious packets to the board here.. Now , exactly who has the issues ?

Kyle

By Patrick on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:29 pm: Edit

Living in Southern California , I see a shitload of Discoveries. There's four in the parking lot
right now and another 6 across the street. I know of about a dozen people that own one including my brother. I have never ever seen one dirty . I've never ever even seen one in person modded in any way other than a roofrack and the standard brushguard/tailight guards.

Now I know they have a history or safaris and offroad expeditions all over the world. And I see evidence here on your site that you guys give them a beating. But who are these guys trying to kid ? Going to the XOC and hassling X owners ? For the most part people here in California buy Discos because they are a status symbol pure and simple . It seems that the same people buying them are in the same market as the Escalade owners. Not many people are going to plunk down 40-50 grand to buy a vehicle and then go beat the shit out of it.

Why do you think that these guys are all bragging about their 7-10 year old Discos? They got them for 9-15 grand because they ARE unreliable. The people who buy them new are smart enough to get rid of them within 5 years because they know the headaches that await them after the 60,000 mile mark.

Rovers have allways seemed to me to be a reflection of elitism. A tall station wagon that people buy and have no intention of getting dirty. People that have the money to spend and are willing to accept what is a known reputation for unreliability take that into consideration. It is a nice truck that will be a front line car when it's valet parked and a great car to show up at the polo grounds with Muffy , Buffy , Biff and Skip.

I find it most amusing that Land Rover has resorted to infomercials to assist them in selling
their products. It's for a simple reason. They themselves need to change the perception of
their own vehicles. By doing the infomercials and off road clinics they are trying to encourage the
owners of these purpose built vehicles to learn to use them for their intended purpose since thus far only a small percentage of the owners have a clue how to drive them on anything else but pavement.

Sure a very few in a small minority are taking their truck doing a few mods and getting their truck dirty. But it is a very slim minority. It probably allways will be.

These idiots that came to the XOC to compare their truck that new was $40,000 and probably never saw dirt until the second or third owner are proud to say that they work on their trucks and know all about how to fix it. I on the other hand am proud to say that I am my X's only owner and don't know didly squat how to fix it if it breaks. I don't need to . It wont!

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:32 pm: Edit

I dont think you read the whole thread over there Either Patrick. I admit Brian did turn it somewhat personal but thats all they had over there to debate with. Photo shop and animated icons. Thats how it got so ugly. Look at who threw the most mud...

Kyle

By Patrick on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:37 pm: Edit

I read the whole thing as I was there at the beginning (SoCalPunX). It wasn't a sincere attemp to find out about the X . It was a sarcastic and condescending attempt to redicule. It cannot even be said that there was any real exchange since most of principal participants pretty much ignored the others points anyways.

By dead horse on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Patrick,

Let it die man. If you were entertained like most...cool. If you were offended...keep it to yourself. It's dead. See how the last few posts are of a humorous nature? Let's keep it that way.

By Jarrod on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Patrick

Don't you think your message is a little mis-placed on this site?? I think we all admit that many people buy the vehicles as a status symbol. None of us like that fact either - but it is the truth. So why come here admitting that most of US use them the way they should be but in the same breath tell us how many don't see off-road use. Your message just does not add up.

Now I agree, let this thing rest. We pick our own vehicles and love them. I won't tell you how much less I paid for my vehicle that DOES see offroad use, has been very reliable, and is now at 85K miles and you don't tell me how frugal you down to earth you are for spending more money on a truck you admittedly know nothing about.

By Claus Christensen on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:45 pm: Edit

SO i FINALLY FOUND THE DISCOWEB !. My girlfriend walked by my office and commented "you really have got start getting with the ages..disco is dead"..yeah honey go dye your hair again !.

Just wanted to say that I have read a chunk of your threads and I have to say, you guys are not that bad after all. Yesterday after reading Brian's rude comment I felt like Hells Angles vs Bandidos..(sorry about the hate mail Brian)BUT we all are here to Wheel or no?. So I suggest this:

A bunch of us are heading to Moab in April, If any of you would like to join us come on down..perhaps we can get to know eachothers SUV's better, have a few brews and learn a few things..

I drove Land Rovers in Cypress,Germany,Namibia (during my UN years) and did love that rig....

Regards,

Claus (Vancouver BC Canada) Yellow 2001 X

By lynden on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:46 pm: Edit

Okay Patrick so you would've bought a new X even if you could find a used one for $10K less... right. You had no choice because they're new. Don't talk about us taking used vehicles off road. I took my truck out the day after I bought it and I spent a good chunk of change on it. You might see the LR badge as elitist, that's your problem. Maybe there's something behind it? Face it LR has a histoy... nevermind I'm not even going to start this all over again.
Lynden

By Sc00ter on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Since we are all buds now, me and a few other X's, pathy's and maybe an Exploder(sorry Troy) are wheeling this Sunday in the SF. Bay area. If any of you guy's are available I would love to get muddy with some new wheelers.

Feel free to shoot me a message at swallace@io.com

Happy T-day

scoot

By Jarrod on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:50 pm: Edit

Oh and by the way X-Guys. I have nothing against your truck at all. I actually like the looks of them, but really know nothing abou the mechanics, reliability, service standards, etc. I just don't like my vehicle being slammed and HATE to be told by people that know nothing about me that I bought it as a status symbol. That is just a terribly ignorant generalization to make.
I guess, though, that I have to admit that my vehicle just prior to the Disco was a status symbol too.............man, how I miss my IH Scout! ; )

By Redsrover (Redsrover) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:57 pm: Edit

What is this "elitist" shit all about? When someone calls another an elitist, it's usually a sign that the party of the first part is jealous of the party of the second part. Perhaps the X guys, calling all LR owners elitists, are jealous or somehow harbor feelings of self-doubt. Perhaps these boys feel unwanted and therefore lash out at those of us who have made different, possibly better choices along the road of life.

Kind of like the boys in the crappy fraternities back when I was in college 20 years ago. They always tried to characterize the more popular fraternities as "elitist" or rich-boy clubs predominantly because the boys in the less well liked clubs were not selected by the more popular ones. Really a fascinating study in social interaction, acceptance and human nature.

But what do I know...I'm just an ignorant redneck..

Red

By Todrick on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 07:02 pm: Edit

sorry, ignorant rednecks are never in the popular frats...

only an elitist would think he is a redneck when in reality he is in the rich boy club...

thats why you think people are jealous of you, you have no concept of reality

By Brian Jackson (Nerover) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 07:02 pm: Edit

Claus,

"Just wanted to say that I have read a chunk of your threads and I have to say,
you guys are not that bad after all. Yesterday after reading Brian's rude comment
I felt like Hells Angles vs Bandidos..(sorry about the hate mail Brian)"

No Worries, I was out of line and have tried to make right of it by emailing Tonka Ross and apologizing to the XOC. And thanks man, we're not the assholes I portrayed us to be yesterday. A truck is a man's manhood and w stepped on each others and tempers fly! Live and let live.:-)

"BUT we all are
here to Wheel or no?. So I suggest this:

A bunch of us are heading to Moab in April, If any of you would like to join us
come on down..perhaps we can get to know eachothers SUV's better, have a few
brews and learn a few things..."

Damn right man...

Brian

By p m on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 07:19 pm: Edit

By Todrick on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 07:24 pm: Edit

SoCal X's have ran:
Los Coyotes
Anza Borrego
Truck Haven
and most recntly, Odessa Canyon

they definately leave the roads

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Links? Pictures? I'm not doubting you, I am just genuinely curious.

By Redsrover (Redsrover) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Todrick,

Grammatically speaking, it should read "SoCal X's have run," not ran. And thanks for clearing up the elitist mystery for me. I would have gone the remainder of my lavish and richly appointed life thinking I was a commoner had it not been for your remarkable insight.

With great appreciation, I am

Red

By p m on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 07:42 pm: Edit

okay, i want pics, too.
where did you go to los coyotes?

peter

By p m on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 07:50 pm: Edit

now, there is no really difficult trails in anza-borrego, except for 400 yards in Coyote Canyon and a few rocky spots on Pinyon Mtn. (including squeeze).

truckhaven - everyone can do truckhaven, 'cause it has any level of difficulty. you can easily say you ran truckhaven in a ford taurus - but it has no real merit.

odessa canyon - it even has asphalt remaining in places. you didn't mention doran canyon, so i assume you haven't run it.

so, Todrick, i want photos. nothing you mentioned is really impressive.

peter

By mike w on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 07:57 pm: Edit

the true tests of a vehicles character and strengths: if its still around after 30 years!

my mom told me that right before tossing me the keys to my disco!
thanks MOM

By p m on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:00 pm: Edit

okay, here's the delight - from
the SoCal XTerra Club trail rating: :

Intermediate: These routes can be traversed with a stock Xterra 4x2 with rear Limited Slip Differential, or stock Xterra 4x4.

way to go, Todrick. I would love to see an Xterra in action. dammit, i would even rent one to join for a trip!

peter

By XterraANDRoverOwner on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:04 pm: Edit

Kyle, there aren't a whole lot of locked Xterras, but a few have ARBs in them, some front and rear. There's not a whole lot of companies offering to make products for the Xterra, WISH there was a Great Basin XTERRA out there to keep us up to our knees in drivetrain goodies. Eaton is possibly coming out with an eLocker for the Xterra, and I think a TrueTrak is coming out for the xterra axle. Most Xterras come set up with an LSD in the rear, that, with a light bit of brake pressure can help out in some situations. It's not a detroit, but it's better than an open diff. And it's a factory option. Everything you need, nothing you don't.

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:20 pm: Edit

Just wondering. I broke a few Nissan rears myself some years ago. I know they aint much. Some of those boys got some big meats there as well. thats gotta be killin the poor little nissan motors ?

Kyle

By XterraANDRoverOwner on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:30 pm: Edit

My, Bluegill, you ask a lot of questions, I'll ask you the EXACT same ones, so you can waste as much time as I do searching for this stuff....
all the following are now answered.
xterra:
body on frame construction
solid rear axle
IFS front suspension
base V6 170 hp @ 4800 rpm
torque 200 @ 2800 rpm (good range for offroading, wouldn't you think?)
part time 4 wheel drive 2H, 4H and 4L (via a 3 speed transfer case (2HI-4HI-Neutral-4LO))

How much redesigning went into the body before mounting it on frontier chassis (is it as simple as enclosing rear cabin & adding rear seats)?
The body obviously went through significant changes, the front doors are the same, the hood and front fenders are the same, the windshield is the same, everything else is different. Your Disco has Range Rover doors, front and rear.

Does the frontier have rear coil springs, or do I remember leaf springs?
No, it's got spring over suspension to help in carrying heavier loads. THe Xterra has spring under, 3 leafs with a load leaf, which sucks, and hinders you offroad. for under $60 you can get a set of add a leafs, gain almost 3 inches in better arching springs, and get rid of that load leaf that stops you if you hit a rock or tree in front of it.

What are spring rates & cargo carrying / towing capacity?
Spring rates, I have no clue. the Xterra has a 1,000 lbs total payload, and can tow 5000 lbs (automatic)

What about shock absorbers - are stock any good?
They're stock shocks. I upgraded to Bilsteins, 2" longer in the rear, and 20% stiffer up front for when I get my Calmini front bumper (nicer looking than an ARB) and winch.

I'm also curious as to how the 4wd operates - mechanical or electrical engagement?
Mechanical, just like my lihtweight, only it's one stick, not a stick and a plunger.

Does 4L act as locking center differential?
No.

Viscous coupling?
No.

What do front & rear lockers do for the xterra?
Uh, lock the Xterra? Make it perform better? what are you asking? I doubt it will do anything different than what yours will do, it's a locking diff.

Any standard features like ABS, traction control, etc?
Yes ABS, no traction control (other than ABS)

Is power group (doors, windows, cruise, etc) an option?
Yes, power windows, cruise, mirrors, but no tush warmers or coffee brewers.

Standard tire make, model, size?
mine came with 265 75r15 on 15x7" wheels. I am currently running Interco Trxus 31 x 10.5s. The spare is under the rear, and a 31" fits, a 32 will if you air it down a little. Some put their spare on the roof, I don't much agree with that approach.

Where's that spare stashed?
Under the cargo area, you use a winch system to lower it.

With a tailgate-mounted knobby full-size spare, the xterra would really look great.
There are people making this design, about 6-900 bucks.

What are body panels made of?
Steel.

You guys have any underbody pictures you can post? there are sure plenty if you look for them. I have one......
http://www.nexterra.org/photos/nr11-11-01/pages/DCP_2901.htm
pic of my crunched in (but still holding strong) oil sump. Hit it on a rock up in Labrador 80 miles out on a very degraded construction access road. We ran into B2B whilst up there.

How's that rear axle kept in line?
It's a leaf sprung, 2 shocks, mount front and back to counteract windup, got shackles in the rear, a spring hanger/gas tank protector mounts to the frame.

Now tell me this. do we all know jack about em?

By XterraANDRoverOwner on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:32 pm: Edit

Kyle, (I use your name so we can figure out who I am replying to)

The biggest you will fit under an Xterra is a 33. It's gonna bog down a bit, but not too bad. Rockhopper gears are available if you are not happy with the crawl ratio, which, honestly, is not that low.

By jb on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:35 pm: Edit

Xterra is a stock crapper, Disco is a stock winner, "now that's a fact.." (which movie is that line from??)
A good healthy off road challenge followed by a most certain drunken brawl right out in the middle of Moab, now that's ALL AMERICAN !!! Let's do it right and have it catered, maybe by the dealer. I vote for pan fried rainbow trout with a honey & walnut glaze and kegs of Fat Tire beer. Oldscout, don't forget those cigars and booze;) We can get 4-wheeler magazine and LRI to cover it. We'll call it Mayhem in Moab - maybe make it an annual event? J/K !

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:36 pm: Edit

"Now tell me this. do we all know jack about em? "

You know where the spare is and you know the payload...I suppose that could be considered "Jack"
That spare under the ass is a serious downfall... Nice skid though I guess...

Kyle

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:44 pm: Edit

How much lift or cutting (if any) do you need to do in order to fit 33's on an Xterra? We have to trim the back of the rear fender a bit if we want to fit anything from 245/75 and up..

By XterraANDRoverOwner on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:48 pm: Edit

damn, really? one guy is running an Xterra with 33x9.5 TSL Radials, and I don't think he has done much more than trim the inside lip of the front fenders (not noticable from the outside) and I think he has add a leafs or shackles in the rear (not both) and has cranked up his torsion bars (adjusting the ride height. what does 245 75 equal out to? I am assuming that is 16"?

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:54 pm: Edit

The torsion bars are a cheap lift. No doubt there.... Not real flexy though....

Kyle

By XterraANDRoverOwner on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:54 pm: Edit

better than a gas tank *coughJEEPcough*

it's there because it fits, and so you don't have to deal with a swingarm AND a tailgate. since the X door does not swing out like the Disco, it'd be annoying for all the active folks who they market the Xterra to to open that swingarm every day. Would you rather have your smelly spare inside like in a Range Rover? I think not. Unless you are stuck in a gulley with 2 flats, the stock location is not going to cramp your style. I have a trail hitch that protects that section anyway from any impending doom.

Not all that is different from what you are used to is bad, Kyle.

By XterraANDRoverOwner on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:57 pm: Edit

yes, the torsion bars are seriously limiting. It would be nice if they mounted to the upper A arms instead of the lower, like a toyota, that would afford us another 2" of travel.

Kyle, all you do is pick apart and pick apart and pick apart, is there anything you like?

You really do come across like a grumpy old coot.

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:03 pm: Edit

You know the ring gear diameter and the tooth contact on those Ring and pinions off hand ?

Kyle

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:05 pm: Edit

Ya 245/75 R16 that's close to a 31 (about 30.5 to 30.7). You just need to trim about an inch back and two inches up on the very rear part of the rear wheel well.. No need for lift.. You wouldn't even notice it unless you knew what to look for. 33's would require some longer springs, longer bump stops and some triming to fit.. You really don't need to trim just to fit them but, you need to trim them for when you stuff them so that they don't eat up the sheet metal. Wish they made the wheel wells bigger when they designed the thing.

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:09 pm: Edit

I never understood that about jeeps.. Why is their gas tanks so damn close to the ground in the rear like that? You would think they could find a better place for it or at least tuck it up in the frame or some thing.

By Patrick on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:11 pm: Edit

Hey XAROwner, it seems like youre having fun. But I think they will make a point of disagreeing with you and finding flaws wherever they can.

By XterraANDRoverOwner on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:12 pm: Edit

do you ask these questions to sound superior? no, I don't know them as there aren't really any aftermarket diff products available yet, I am not about to go opening my diff to find out. someone has the technical specs somewhere... but that's way far beyond anything I have seen yet.

I have only heard of one cracked swivel ball housing and no blown diffs, broken axles in all the 4 wheeling we have done. the drivetrain is very well built.

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:15 pm: Edit

OK patrick , get in the thread instead of spewing... What do you bring with you? You know where the gas filler neck is and all that ? Atleast these boys are shooting the shit here and not trying to be uptight little pricks..

Kyle

By XterraANDRoverOwner on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:16 pm: Edit

the stock crawl ratio is 2.02to1. rockcrawler gears would move it down to 3.60to1.

Stock they are not set up to crawl, hopefully someone will come out wiht a cheaper set of gears, $1295 is a big hurt in the back pocket.

Matt

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:17 pm: Edit

Not me.. I'm not into that my truck is better then your truck crap.. I like to learn as much as I can about other peoples trucks. Not that I know a lot but, it is always nice to hear about some of the things people do.. Plus, you can get some ideas of things to do that you may not have thought of. I like my Rover but, I have seen many other trucks out there that I like as well.. I'm sure that the guys and girls driving them could out wheel my ass as well but, I don't care about that either. I'm not going to disagree with anyone unless I know that what they said is wrong.

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:18 pm: Edit

No , it has alot to do with the strength of the diff...
Swivel balls ? its got 4 CVs in the front of it dont it? Two shafts , each with an inner and outter CV joint right ?

Kyle

By XterraANDRoverOwner on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:27 pm: Edit

since it's IFS, I would have to agree with you there. Again, I really don't know all that much about the inner workings of the diff, the rear is an LSD unit, which I am sure someone has technical specs on. the swivel balls are a lot smaller than Rover swivels. probably don't have as much of an issue with leaking and pitting as the Rover ones too.

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:36 pm: Edit

No swivel balls at all. On the rover the CV is an open design that is housed inside the ball that is full of lube. ON the Xterra and other IFS trucks you just have a regular old CV and boot on either end of the shaft. Thats probably why it appears so much smaller...If you break a front CV you have to break one ball joint loose and take off the Axle nut to get the axle and broken joint out. Then you can limp along still....

Kyle

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:37 pm: Edit

Probably would be good to take along a plug that would fit in the front diff once that axle is pulled to keep the lube in,,,,a good "just in case" item...

Kyle

By Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 10:15 pm: Edit

What's all this then??? A bunch of upstart, classist Xterra interlopers invading our peaceable community of elitist Rover assholes???

There's only one way to settle this: a motorized "Survivor" contest between the tribes -- a drunken off road demolition derby!!!!

I'd gladly match my 10 mpg 4500lb. 14ga. steel ladder chassis 4.6L v8 full-time heavy duty 4x4 center lock differential OME sprung BFG MT behemoth against the trickest Xtra they can muster. Just let me deactivate the air bags and replace the bumpers with railroad ties. And I'll take the Rover's electrical gremlins because I don't give a damn.

Seriously, the Xterra's styling, with it's humped roof is an obvious rip off of the Discovery and previous Land Rovers. Mechanically, it reminds me a little of my old full-size '82 Bronco (without the 351 v8) with its part time 4wd, rear leaf springs and independent coils up front.

Basically what you have with the "Xtra" is a v6 Ford Xplorer with a hump on the roof and a theme song from Lenny Kravits on the commercials.

I'd like to see the "Xtra" try to run the Camel Trophy.

---Norm

By Kerensky97 on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 10:50 pm: Edit

I'd like to see the X run the Camel Trophy too.

But it won't for many reasons, the one that sticks out in my mind is the X's front end, I hate independant suspensions. Other than that I think you'd be suprised of what an Xterra can do, even stock.
Although looking at some of the pictures at Discoweb.org having two solid axles doesn't seem to be helping articulation as much as I thought it would.
(whats up with that?)
Bad Articulation

Somebody asked for pictures of us going off more than a gravel road so I thought I'd point you guys to this site.
GOX2

It has pictures from the "Gathering of Xterras" we had in Ouray 1-7 of September. It's not the most extreme offroading except maybe for Poughkeepsie (IMHO). But you have to admit we know how to have fun.
Black Bear Road

Plus its great being in a club for a vehicle that has only existed for a little over two years. It seems like in most clubs there's always some old fart thats been wheeling his for thirty years and thinks he knows everything. (sound familiar?)

Anyway I'm one of the Xterra owners that would welcome the chance to wheel with a Disco owner.
I'll be in Moab for the Easter Safari so if you see me say hi.
My ugly rear
My X is the silver one. Its still bone stock but I made it over Black Bear and only touched the underbody to the road once the whole week (I wasn't paying attention and caught a rock in the lower A-arm, no damage.), and no I never bypassed an obstacle.

Like one great Rover owner said "Don't be a stick in the mud!"

By ZPukajlo on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 11:02 pm: Edit

I believe that the 'X' runs a 4.37:1 in the axles. Correct me if I am wrong.

Z

By mike w on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 11:05 pm: Edit

yea what norm said!

By DenimX on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 11:48 pm: Edit

I thought we were making so much progress, and then Norm had to come in and stir things up again. I'm sorry, but things were getting nice and civil... It was a great exchange of information (mostly) and I think that attitudes aside, we could learn alot from each other. IF our egos stay out of the way.

By Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 12:34 am: Edit

Keren --

That's a bad ass-looking hill off to the left in image 96 of Black Bear, but I don't see any Xtras actually going down it. Pretty country, though. As for the unarticulated Disco -- maybe he's got a heavy duty anti-sway bar and Bilsteins along with his street tires. Shit happens when you drive your front end into a big hole.

Dennim --

Whaddeyou mean I'm stirring things up???? Here I was enjoying my Pimms Cup #7 and I'm assaulted by a bunch of socialists in Nip mall crawlers.

Seriously, the Xterra looks like it does about as well off road as my old full size Bronco (the original Broncos were actually better) -- which is pretty good with decent tires -- as long as you don't lose traction in one or more wheels.

Bottom line: you get what you pay for: a $32K Disco is that much better than a $22K Xterra. When you get into some serious shit off road, that Xtra $10K in the bank is not going to help you. Sure, there are plenty of mall crawlin' soccer moms who make Discos look bad, but in my opinion, if you don't take a Land Rover off road, you're wasting your money -- might as well get an Xpedition.

---Norm

By sea bass on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 08:42 am: Edit

i'd like to see an xterra do the camel trophy...hehehe

By Kyle on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 08:53 am: Edit

I dont understand this whole getting snippy thing when someone deals out a knock. If you are secure with your ride then it should just simply be funny. If the Xterra guys knew enough they could knock the Rover 15 different ways. And they would be right!!! But its really no biggie,,,,is it ?? There has always been competition between brands in every sport. Its kinda silly to think you can end all that right here. What you can end is how its taken and handled...I have to deal one out and it has to do with the "X" on the end of the names. (wallpaper X , Tonk X , denim X , XOC ,) I think its supposed to be cool but really only reminds me of "Malcom X"....

Kyle

By x man on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 09:02 am: Edit

we can't all be named Norm Orschendocken-bitten-abben-eine-fleischkopf-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-haben-mitte-kalbsfleisch-himbleezen-eisen-schonendanke of Ulm.

By Kyle on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 09:05 am: Edit

lol , dont dont pick on the mans name. That makes it pretty obvious that you dont know enough about his ride to pick on it..

Kyle

By MTB on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 09:24 am: Edit

After reading both threads on both sites. The one thing that I have seen is that both X-owners and Disco owners love to get out and do some offroading and that is the most important no matter what you drive. Hell just be glad we are not driving The Mayor of Truckville. So life is to short to see who has the best 4x4 or who can piss the farthest. Lets get out and enjoy what we both love to do.
Blue & AndreX I'm sorry Turkey sucks & Ham the better 1/2 and I are going to have Maine Lobsters & Crab Imperial

All of You have a safe Thanksgiving

Michael B

By Kyle on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 09:33 am: Edit

MTB , I always hear that generic bullshit "Lets all get along" . As I said before , there has always been competition between brands , there always will be. If you read the posting there you see that some of the "X" boys would throw personal insults first to mask the lack of any real knowledge. This includes both moderators that were in the thread (Posting pics of people not even in the tread making personal insults baout them).. I am all for competition between brands and thinks its healthy actually. I dont that it has to be some teen age fight each time though...
Mike H , you are the reason I went there , where are you know? I see you registered...

Kyle

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 09:33 am: Edit

I want to see a Hummer do the camel trophy. Would love to see that thing get stuck between trees and not fit on half of the trails cause it's so damn wide..

What kind of ground clearence does the Xterra have up front under tranny where the two front half shafts come out? Do they make some armor for that?

By MTB on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 09:52 am: Edit

Kyle I know there will always be brand competition
and it always end up as mud slinging. What is the point? The best competition is getting out on the trails (Like you have posted) and have fun. Hell if all of the post would have been in person fist would fly with some. Way I see it talk is cheep. Lets do what you said Pepsi Challenge there are plenty of X's & Disco drivers and machines that are equal. If you could do it without having a pissing party that would be fun.

Michael B

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 09:54 am: Edit

Got another question. When you guys suspension lift your Xterras do you get driveline vibes? If so and they are coming from the front how do you fix that? I lifted my Disco and got vibes from both the front and rear drive shafts. I just had to get two new double cardon shafts but, I'm wondering how you would fix that on IFS?

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 09:59 am: Edit

You know I got tons of questions.. How deep can that Xterra drive through water? Does it leak into the passenger compartment like most of ours do or is the Xterra pretty water tight? How do you keep all of those electrics dry as I would imagine that you have way more of them then we do. We have that problem as well though.

By Kyle on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 10:01 am: Edit

Their front diff doesnt change position when lifted Eric. The wheels and arms just move down...

Kyle

By Kyle on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 10:05 am: Edit

I suspect thats where my opinions differ Michael. Having done same racing over the years I have become quite comfortable with brand competition. It doesnt botter me at all. And in person I doubt any of those boys would have had the same things to say... Its called monitor muscles....

Kyle

By MTBD on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 10:37 am: Edit

Kyle Like all of us Disco owners we drove other 4x4's until we drove our Disco's so we know Ihad 3 Nissan 4x4's before the Disco. 81Truck, 86.5 x-cab HB SE, 88Pathfinder all nice BUT NO Disco. on or off road. But talk is cheep. Just like when you raced the only way to settle something is lets put them head to head. and we know who will be the winner but I'm sure alot of us maybe suprised of what a Xterra could do.
So if we can pressure them on a Pepsi Challenge that would be fun. But you had no takers yet. They know it is just easier to post I'm better than you and you paid more for your Rig.
Well the wife is getting pissed(spending to much time on D-web) See Ya
The user name is for you Kyle
Michael B

By XterraANDRoverOwner on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 10:38 am: Edit

What kind of ground clearence does the Xterra have up front under tranny where the two front half shafts come out?
I think I measured 11" once. I have mine lifted about 2", so I estimate stock it's about 9"

Do they make some armor for that?
yeah, www.skidplates.com makes a full set of skidplates for underneath. Lots of folks have em, I need em after crunching my oil pan on a big rock in Labrador.

Got another question. When you guys suspension lift your Xterras do you get driveline vibes?
No driveline vibes I have heard of. The front diff usually stays in place, but SpencerLowRacing offers a lift that drops the diff using offset spacers.

If so and they are coming from the front how do you fix that?
If any it would be from the rear.

I lifted my Disco and got vibes from both the front and rear drive shafts. I just had to get two new double cardon shafts but, I'm wondering how you would fix that on IFS?
I don't know. my guess is it'll not be a problem until someone sticks a live axle underneath.

You know I got tons of questions.. How deep can that Xterra drive through water? I've had water up to the hood on a normal watercrossing (no gung ho crap), and yes, water will leak in the driver compartment, I think there is a vent under the passenger seat, and another one in the rear, but I've been pretty lucky to not get stuck while fording, I guess you can chalk that up to preparation.

Does it leak into the passenger compartment like most of ours do or is the Xterra pretty water tight?
Answered that above....

How do you keep all of those electrics dry as I would imagine that you have way more of them then we do. We have that problem as well though.
Well, the single biggest electrical gripe is the alternator. They mounted it down low. Several people have killed alternators doing muddy crossings, getting silt and stuff into it, it's one of the lowest components in the engine. Not a clue why they did that... Several people have been trying to figure out a way to move it to the top of the engine compartment, but it's a pretty full compartment. barely room for an ARB compressor (another gripe).

I was the one making fun of Norm, as he was making fun of others monikers, and obviously you Brit car owners don't know a bit of Python humor, do you....

Matt

By Mike W. on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 10:38 am: Edit

IFS and rear leaf springs, kinda like a priest with a hugh *****. the japan made vehicles are not made to go from showroom to a Camel Trophy run. actually few vehicles are, however, any vehicle with modifications can be made competitive in any off road recreactional event. now there is the rub. what and how much must be done to complete the task of improving your cars ability to drive to the extremes. other than add-on (ie: gps, radios, and the such) lets briefly discuss these mods....heck go to www.camel-trophy.com, they already have a list made. as i see it the LAND ROVER regardless of the type is the only vehicle that with just changing the springs and tires you are ready for anything short of a climb up redwoods. the xterra is a vehicle whose design limits its ability, same for the forerunner and the land cruiser. they are not meant for really bad terrian. can they be competitive, yes, a radio flyer can be made competitive. but, HOW MUCH, and for how long. watching those comericals and dreaming that you can do the same in an off the showroom floor car is, well, stupid. disco owners have been criticized for having purchased an expensive car. well i dont think there is many of us here that has gone out and spent the 32,000 it takes to buy a new one, but i i could then i would because i still come out money ahead for the vehicle i have is designed and constructed so i can go where i want and make it back. if you have a xterra then congrats, enjoy it, but ask yourself this, where will it be in 30 years. please never under-estimate the abilities of a TRUE SUV that being the LAND ROVER. now i am no expert dont claim to be never will be, but i have more common sense than a marble in a spray can and thats why there is a LAND ROVER in my driveway.

By Leif (Nattidisco) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 11:24 am: Edit

I used to own an Xterra. I traded it in for a 2001 Disco with 6000 miles on it. HOLY CRAP are they different. I traded cloth, IFS, rust, weak parts for leather, sunroofs that actually have a function, live axels, amazing comfort, a tough truck with a great history. I have never regreted getting rid of the X. I did regret how much I had already put into it though. My main concern about the X was that it was limited. You could only do so much to it and it was very expensive to do so! It is cheap to achieve the same things on the Disco, like a $150 lift. (don't come back telling me about 2" shackels and torsion bar adjustment. That is not a lift) There are many vendors for the Land Rover, abroad and domestic. It would be much to expensive to outfit an X and not even be close to the capabilities of the Disco.

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 11:27 am: Edit

Thanks Xterraandroverowner.. Sounds like the xterra has the same issues that we do just a little different.. Sorry to hear about the alternator being on the bottom.. That does suck.. So since you have both, which one do you personally like better? gas mileage aside that is.

By Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 11:40 am: Edit

x-man: "we can't all be named Norm Orschendocken-bitten-abben-eine-fleischkopf-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-haben-mitte-kalbsfleisch-himbleezen-eisen-schonendanke of Ulm."

That's Norm VON Orschendocken-bitten-abben-eine-fleischkopf-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-haben-mitte-kalbsfleisch-himbleezen-eisen-schonendanke to you, Sonny.

Cheerio!!!

One question: my old Bronco, which had pretty much the same suspension set up as the Xtrra, used to have fits going down washboard roads at speed (would start to yaw sideways and lose control). Does this problem afflict the Xtrra??? No such problem with the Disco, especially w/ OME suspension set up.

In defence of the Realm,

---Norm

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 11:51 am: Edit

Norm,

Come one, we all know that a stock disco is pretty much like a frickin' pogo stick in the ass end in it's stock form. Slow whoops are even a problem. We have lousy suspension at speed out of the box in some conditions, too. I don't think any truck is as bad as it.

In defence of truth,

Tom

By herky on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 11:53 am: Edit

I owned an Xterra before my 2k Disco II, I love them both, When I bought my x in 99 it was not available in leather and the mods were limited. The only reason I sold it was the market was hot for them in late 2000 and made 4k on it! The pissing match is stupid, I think it is awesome to see others enjoy modding their vehicles, who cares if a bunch of girls drive X's. Alot of girls drive Disco's too! Does this make the vehcile less of a car because some of us are male pigs? I would like to run into some of these guys on trails and talk about our thing in common, modding vehicles and enjoying the outdoors. I also have a vehicle I race on a local track, some of the best races have been against guys with v8's that I have stayed with they dont judge because I run 4 cylinders, most of them are impressed and ask questions and I the same about their vehicles......... stupid that off-road community has to splinter like islaamic factions!

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 12:12 pm: Edit

I look at it this way; whether somebody is a nice guy or a prick does not really have anything to do with what they drive. There are nice guys driving Xterras, and there are assholes driving Disco's. And vice versa. Same goes for Jeeps, Hummers, whatever.
Allthough the guys I usually wheel with all have Rovers, I would not have a problem with wheeling with someone driveing something else, as long as I can get along with the guy.

By Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Ahem.

I'm not sure what all this hubbub is about. Apparently, some of our fellows were slumming, as it were, on the internet and stirred up a nest of socialist mall crawlers. Personally, I wouldn't BOTHER. I don't think it's very dignified of our fellows to go around shatting on those less fortunate, especially during the Holidays. After all, it's important to know one's PLACE, is it not? If you go down THEIR way, you're just going to get your knickers dirty.

Tally Ho!!!!

---Norm

By Kerensky97 on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 01:26 pm: Edit

"One question: my old Bronco, which had pretty much the same suspension set up as the Xtrra, used to have fits going down washboard roads at speed (would start to yaw sideways and lose control). Does this problem afflict the Xtrra??? No such problem with the Disco, especially w/ OME suspension set up."

Xterra has the same problem out of the box.
I was going about 30mph on a road two days ago and hit some washboard and the whole vehicle drifted sideways a bit. Although it has to be bad washboard and you have to be pretty fast, you know pretending you're in the Baja or Camel Trophy or something. ;-)

Just a set of new shocks helps alot (bilstens seem the be the popular choice).
I wish we could get more aftermarket companies to back us up, I'd really like an OME suspension.
Most of the aftermarket add-ons we get are modified from other vehicles although Calmini has started catering to the Xterra, and Eaton says the new E-locker will have Xterra applications in early production.

By Kyle on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 01:33 pm: Edit

No sarcasm there Norm,,,,

Kyle

By Cartner on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Dammit! I AM 21, I AM a Disco Owner, and I KNOW my Disco can kick the teeth in on ANY Xterra. Besides, WHO would buy an Exterrible over a USED Disco anyway? I mean, REALLY? If thats RUDE, then THANKS. I guess I AM.

By p m on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 08:23 pm: Edit

okay, back from Mammoth. good blizzard there, tons of Xterras parked nose downhill struggling to get free. Not a single strander rover, of any vintage. Not a single Xterra off-pavement, either.

here's my response:

peter

By RoverOverMe on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 09:10 pm: Edit

I'm only 20 years old and I've had 3 Land Rovers so far...mommy and daddy didn't shell out a penny for any of them. A 97 Disco XD, a 89 Range Rover and now a 95 Disco. Committment? I'd love to meet a 3-time Xterra owner in the future.

Oh yeah, mommy and daddy have never bought anything but Ford's. They refused to pay for a foreign car (and look what a wise decision that was )

By Doww on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 09:20 pm: Edit

I am looking at buying a 96 Discovery with 52,000 miles, anything I should know ? Problems with engine, trans, electrical etc, . Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Willy

By E Snyder on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 10:16 pm: Edit

I just couldn't resist adding a few comments.

Mike W- If you think our NAS Discos could run Camel Trophy as they did, you're crazy. Those trucks have a lot more mods than they like to let on. Starting with DIESEL engines! And the sidebar shot against other makes... I've wheeled with several FJ80s, and with their ability to fit 33" tires with no lift, factory dual electronic lockers, and the fact that Toyotas just don't seem to break down, it's hard to put my 95 Disco on that big of a pedestal. And you should check the depreciation after 5 years on a Disco vs. an FJ 80.

Kyle- I agree whole-heartedly about people not being able to take a little brand ridicule. I've wheeled at Tellico with Cruiser ralleys, and Big Dog events with Jeepers. I caught plenty of hell in both places, and it's fine! I also had to speak very softly around a lot of trucks that could kick my Disco's ass. And that was fine too!

I've had a 77 Jeep CJ7, a 78 Toyota FJ40, two Series LRs, and now my 95 Disco. (My parents didn't buy any of them.) I liked them all, for different reasons. The Disco is the only one I could wheel in without hurting my ass.

Anyone who thinks Rover owners are ALL elitist snobs should help me change the oil in a series truck. Or hand crank start it because the generator wasn't working.

I do salute Nissan for coming up with a fairly basic truck that people can go get dirty in, for a reasonable price. Look what the Explorers and Pathfinders turned into. Sheesh.

And it was way too many posts ago, but a Disco owner was thinking about buying his wife an XTerra. Yikes! Buy her a good RR Classic for $9000 bucks, put the other $10000 aside for repairs. Or if it is reliability she wants, get a late 80s FJ60 or 62 for under $10000. My girlfriend has one with 211,000 miles. Original everything, and it purrs like a kitten.

Not really trying to stir up anything with anybody, just putting my 2 cents in. What I really feel like is that we should put this energy into making sure we ALL still have places to wheel in the years to come. Who cares what we drive.

By Anon on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Let's see, I've owned an older Nissan 4x4 and now another LR product. Let's do a comparison:

Reliablity: Nissan wins along with any other Japanese manufacturer else except LRs. Too many times I got stranded far from home with my LR. But hey, it was a fun experience. With a LR I have to carry everything plus the kitchen sink on an extended road trip and hope that what ever breaks I can fix it! With the Nissan all I carried were fluids and belts.

After market products: Probably LR has the market cornered on that one. Although Nissan, I'm sure, has its fair share of aftermarket crap. Give it some time for the Xterra to catch up. LRs only had a 50 year head start. The beauty is that I could get Nissan parts at any auto parts store, can't say the same for my LR.

Off-road prowess: LR wins hands down. Eh, but it probably won't get your home afterward! Nissan's IFS isn't all that capable but does get you from A to B.

Rust issues: Nissan has none. It would be better if LR's undercoating shop isn't down the gravel road from the paint booth! Shame so many chips get started right off the bat.

Power: A V-6 has enough power for that light of a vehicle. If you want more power, get a supercharger. LR V-8 power sucks ass as we all know!

Comfort: LR wins hands down.

Any Joe Shmo mechanic can fix a Nissan, not a LR! They'll just scratch their heads! I suppose some of us can claim that our LRs have 200,000 miles. But the question is how much did it cost you to get there? My Nissan had 140k miles when I sold it and it probably cost me less than $1000 in large repair bills.

So go ahead and buy the Xterra for your wife, girlfriend or whoever. It'll be a great second vehicle since it'll be more reliable, more economical and less costly to own. I have a Subaru to back up my LR and will always have a backup vehicle! I can't imagine the stress of having the LR be my primary vehicle!

I still love my LR the best! Go figure...

By Kerensky97 on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 07:41 pm: Edit

Just got back from Moab yesterday after having a GREAT time in the X!!!

I'm bone stock down to the crappy BFG Long Trails I run (which were actually pretty good on slickrock). I did Fins and Things(3.5) and Poison Spider(4), both with a few bumps to the undercarrige but none that left dents. The only obstacles I bypassed were Kenny's climb because I was chicken, and the Wedgie because I didn't want to risk body damage (maybe when I'm out of college).
We also did part of the Golden Spike trail but turned around at the top of Skyline Drive and headed back to Moab.

All 6 Xterras ranging from my stock XE 3pak to XOC's heavily modified rig made it up with no lockers and no problems (although my suspension sure creaked when crossed up).
Plus XOC spanked some heavily modified land cruisers and CJs who had a hell of a time making it up the Waterfall. He made it up in under a minute what took them as much as 5 minutes per vehicle (with lockers, 6in lifts, and solid front axles), proving that skill beats equipment any day. It takes more skill to get a stock rig as far a more capable vehicle.

True an Xterra couldn't make it up Pritchett Canyon, yet, but it still gives you an idea how much more the Xterra can do than you'd think it could. Hell, I'm suprised it went that far.

So next time don't under estimate a vehicle because it "looks cute". ;-)

Have fun out there, with Discos you certainly don't have an excuse not to.

By mike w on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 12:50 am: Edit

yo, mr snyder, sir you are correct. i am sure there are changes in the basic LR that is pulled off the line and sent to the SPEC. Veh div. of LR for fitment as Camel trucks. however, i will disagree as to the amount of changes. first the diesel is the standard engine in europe not out gas V8's and it is the logical choice of engine types (if i had to guess its for the reason of swiming and fuel avaliablity). other changes are included to be springs and minor tweaking for safety changes. is there more? hell yes there is but the basic vehicle remains. now lets discuss the basic vehicle. i have owned nissians (and Datsuns) and have found them to be most reliable vehicle i have ever owned, but its not a Land Rover and that really explains it all. no i have never (knock on wood) have ever been stranded by my 94. i am fortunate in this and accredit it to the fact it is an older vehicle and everything that could go wrong did with the previous owner. personally i am glad that there is more than one brand of 4x4 for us to spend our money on. is one any better than any other. well, whose to say. its like anything, whatever you own is the best or you would have traded it off a long time ago. is it fun to pick on someone else's rig, yes of course it is. does it hurt the developing mind to expose him or her to ridicule because his LR is baby shit yellow and not the more pleasurable white, i would say yes. enough of this ridicule will cause him to go get several cans of paint. hehehehe. let it go, in the end who really cares what you drive and its color. enjoy our wilderness, live life. wave at others as they pass. smile at little children. smell the flowers. shoot something! blahblahblah!

By Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:58 am: Edit

The one thing I love about the XTERRA is Nissan's Marketing Department. Their commercials are the best when showing surfers, snowboarders, and anything else outdoor related. 90% of the people who buy SUV's are just sheep following the herd and not going outside. We who adventure from the couch to the great outdoors are that 10% that live life.

I love the EXTERRA but I didn't buy one. I would have a hard time finding it in the middle of a hundred others at the ski slope!

V-22 Guy

By p m on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 10:36 am: Edit

LOL Paul,

exactly what i saw in mammoth! plenty of right-outta-the-tv-commercial Xterras with skis and snowboards. looking rugged, struggling to get themselves out of the parking lot.

which brings up kyle's very first post on the xterra board - most of the xterra owners are poseurs, having bought their trucks for the looks.

peter

By Moose on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:01 am: Edit

Ever have your Xterra towed out by the (NJ) State Police because you were so badly stuck? My former Disco XD can lay claim to this. The troopers took pictures of themselves next to my rover that was nearly vertical and was quite a spectacle.

AAA covered the $225 to winch me out....HAHAHAHHAHAHA

By Warren on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:25 am: Edit

An X-Terra Meet!!!!!!!!!

Wow!!!!!!

Lets go rough it out in the foot hills of the silicon valley in our over priced bread wagons and have no capability.

Souds like a killer time dude.

As for my mommy buying my truck for me no -

I'm 18 years old
I work 50 hours a week along with going to highschool. I put 8 grand down on my 95 disco and pay 430 a month for two years, pay for all gas and insurance and my mom is proud of me. If you are going to bring moms into it I just think that your XTERRA lovin mommas just need a good swift kick to the taco!

By twisted knickers on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:27 am: Edit

I have owned 1 toyota pickup, 1 jeep, 2 consecutive 4Runners, 1 Pathfinder. I have driven the Xterra (as well as a trooper, durango, and explorer off road). I currently own a LR DiscoII (my first despite having been around them for some time). The toyotas were capable and reliable, trusty mates in many an adverse situation. My jeep was utter rubbish and spent little time running well. the pathfinder was more of a tarted up sporty station wagon than a 4x4, the Xterra was capable but not on the same level as a toyota (it does have impressive aftermarket support though). My land rover handles diffucult terrain so effortlessly, it's almost less fun, less involving.
What does all this mean to any of you, absolutely NOTHING! which is exactly my point. A land rover is not "better" than an Xterra any more than an apple is better than an orange. we are, afterall, dealing in subjectives and perceptions. I hope the above individuals tire soon of playing Consumer Reports, it grows wearisome.

By Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:29 am: Edit

Awesome, I can feel the love.

V-22 Guy

By Kyle on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:31 am: Edit

Um , twisted , if its getting old for you dont click the link for this thread ? Your actions state you want to read it... If you didnt you could simply ignore...

Kyle

By Andre X on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:42 am: Edit

Kyle, just so you know... The "X" in my name is not because I think it's soooo cool... its to identify myself as a biased Xterra owner.

Most LR owners are poseurs of the worst kind... they are poseurs who buy their $40,000 rig as a status symbol.

I bought the Xterra for a number of reasons. One factor was appearance. One factor is the Xterra's capabilities ON-road, another factor is its capabilites OFF-road. You LR owners are just as guilty. Remember Kyle, it was you that was giving Nivloc a hard time on the Jeep site because his CJ was trailered to the trails instead of driving on its own power.

"Ahh , no it isnt , but are you going to trailer it that far to get to the trails? or drive it? I have seen the inside of more SB Chebbys and TH 350s over the years then should be allowed by law. There is a reason for that... Trails are easy , the mileage to and from is a bitch...."

In this case, you seem to be arguing that the LR Disco is superior because it does so well on the pavement. But you won't admit that the nivloc's ride will kick your Landy's ass on the trails... Hmmmm, sounds like you enjoy trolling to me.

By Andre X on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:45 am: Edit

To clarify: I assume that most LR owners on this site are off-roaders... and thus, not as poseurific as those I mentioned in my previous post.

By Ron on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit

The point to be made is that if you can't do it all and drive it back you are not worthy. Sure you can build a TJ to kick the crap out of a disco and sure the honda CRV gets good mileage and rides nice an road but try to do both and you are screwed with either. Disco can do both.

Ron

By Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit

That's it everybody...........

Time for a group hug!

V-22 Guy

By twisted knickers on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit

It's akin to watching jerry springer, you don't want to, you know it's wrong somehow and you feel sleazy doing it, but by the same token, you want to revel in the spectacle of others' depravity. What is it about the human condition that disposes us to voyerism? why are there "rubber necking delays"? what lunatic came up with the six-pack and why (everybody knows its too much for one, too little to share)?
I digress, could we get on with the the insults and slander, I'm especially partial to the barely coherent rants... and none of this kissy-face "we're both right" and "we are the same deep down " crap. Those monkeys insulted you, now go get 'em!

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:50 am: Edit

Since when has a six-pack been to much for one person??

By Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:54 am: Edit

A six pack is just enough to make a man mad. That's why I enjoy Yuengling Lager 12 bottles at a time.

V-22 Guy

By twisted knickers on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:55 am: Edit

My Disco doesn't have enough cup holders.. but enough about me

By twisted knickers on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 12:04 pm: Edit

Yeungling... good stuff, actually met old man Yeungling some years ago on a road trip to pottstown. I'm partial to Pilsner Urquell these days, especially since they have dropped the price in my market to compete with Warstiener. I can get Pilsner for just under $6.00 a sixpack.. Cheaper by the case (which is how beer is intended to be purchased and enjoyed).

By Andre X on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 12:06 pm: Edit

A six pack of IPA-home brew does me just fine. Yuengling is pretty nice too.

By Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Newcastle

By gp (Garrett) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 12:32 pm: Edit

did someone say beer again. Yuengling ya mean!!! ahhh. this is the stuff i was raised on. oldest brewery in the country. still family owned. and that must have been Dick Yuengling you met. too bad his daughters aren't hotties or they would be the catch of the century. pretty much the staple around here at between $3-$6 a pitcher in most parts of central PA.

banner

By Andre X on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 12:36 pm: Edit

Ron, much like the Disco, the Xterra can get you there, hit the trails, and return. There are plenty of Xterra owners doing it. The pictures have been posted, (as requested). Sure there are drivers who don't know diddly about 4-wheeling that are going to get in the way, or get stuck, or annoy you. But it doesn't matter if you put these people in an Xterra, a Jeep, a Discovery, whatever, they're still going to get stuck.

If you want to condemn the Xterra because it's "cute", well that's fine. But making the Xterra out to be strictly a poseur vehicle is just plain ignorant. And if you are going to take that route, then you might want to define exactly what you consider a "poseur" to be. So far, the only definition that I can discern from you LR types goes something like this..."Poseur-anyone who owns a non-Land Rover SUV or 4wd vehicle." Now THAT'S a definition based on a lot of thought.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 12:47 pm: Edit

>>I'm partial to Pilsner Urquell these days

you ought to try it at the factory

as for a trying to resist watching springer and rubberneck at accidents. i've given up. i have embraced it. if you cant beat 'em join 'em.

rd

By Ron on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:05 pm: Edit

Andre I have just have seen no good things with Nissen IFS. Somehow I don't think the Xterra will be kicking after 42 years of abuse . . . my rover on the other hand IS

poseur:

One who cannot change a tire or change oil

One who cannot understand spotter signals

One who cannot identify at least 50% of the major components on his vehicle

One who thinks BFG ATs are good in mud

One who argues for IFS

Ron

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:12 pm: Edit

Being that I'm one of those drivers that doesn't know diddly about 4-wheeling, gets stuck alot, and has to ask for advice/help/direction over things does that mean that I should sell my 4X4 and get a car? Really, come on now. We all had to learn some where, some how, at some time. You didn't just wake up in the morning and become the worlds best off road driver.

Now, I don't know what other people would call a poseur but, I think that poseurs are anyone who chromes out the whole underside of their 4X4, puts it up on blocks with the wheels off and then puts mirrors under it so that every one can see how clean and chromed it is. Then it goes back into it's covered trailer and taken back to it's heated garage where it is buffed for hours cause someone breathed on it wrong. To me that is a poseur.

By Kyle on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Andre , dont post one posting of mine and try to make your whole argument on that. That sounds like the guy on the Xterra site. If you wanna quote me go get all the posts and link them together.. Did you read Rons post? Cause thats where it went with Nivloc and I...

Kyle

By Ron on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:19 pm: Edit

Ignorance does not make one a poseur. It makes one a newbie.

Ignorance and stupidity make one a poseur . . . and chrome

Ron

Very happy with his chrome head lamp rings thank you very much

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:23 pm: Edit

RON

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along. :D

By Andre X on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:30 pm: Edit

Ron, I can agree with that definition of "poseur". But anyone who has spent any time on the Xterra off roading boards knows that few X owners argue in favor of IFS. But here's something that makes us X owners proud. Even with the limitiations of having independent front suspension, the Xterra is STILL able to wheel with Cherokees, Discos, and the like. THAT is a testament to the abilities of the Xterra AND its owners.

So there!

By Ron on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:42 pm: Edit

My question is for how long.

Pretty soon it will be like my buddy's pathfinder, not good.

We shall see.

The way I look at it is that here you can ask almost any technical question and get a GOOD answer. Reading that thread over there no one knew anything about their trucks, is that because they are new and reliable so you don't have to? Maybe I dunno but somehow I think in the long run you will see more discos than you will x is on the road. sure it is british crap, no arguement, but it is tough british crap thats easy to fix

Ron

Scoutman. Right on as always

By Andre X on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:47 pm: Edit

Kyle, I read the whole Jeep thread. You were trying to say your LD is better than nivloc's Jeep because his Jeep couldn't hold up on the 9,000 mile round tripper you took. http://forums.jeepsunlimited.com/ubb/Forum18/HTML/009406.html

I also find it interesting how your discoweb member's involvement in the discussion began... with this innocent post from Leslie. http://www.discoweb.org/discus/messages/1202/3244.html
As Leslie says, the jeepers came to the defense of the Disco, yet SOME of you found it necessary to troll on their board for a while and try to make people envy you because you drive a Discovery. Guess what Kyle... We don't envy you at all.

By Kyle on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Andre , again you start your drivel. The really funny thing here is that you have no idea what I am talking about. You have no idea hat Ron is talking about. I think this is the main issue. The Discovery will do it ALL and it will continue to do it over and over and over again. How old are ya Andre and how long you been doing this in your Xterra ? Miles covered and so forth.. Just an estimation ofcourse...

Kyle

By Neal Burton (Neal) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:56 pm: Edit

guess what Kyle... We don't envy you at all

then shut the fuck up

By Andre X on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 01:58 pm: Edit

Ron, I'll take my chances on the Nissan. Nobody knows how well it will hold up, but not too many people complain about Nissan quality. I know you guys love to work on your LD's. Its a labor of love, but I've already been down the "tough British crap that's easy to fix" road, and it was fun for a while, but I have enough work and hobbies to fill up my day.

By Andre X on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 02:16 pm: Edit

Drivel? I don't think so Kyle. If you weren't trying to troll the jeepers, then why the condesending attitude to them after they already came to the defense of the Discovery? Yes the Discovery will do it all, over and over again, but I think you have a problem admitting that nivloc's jeep can outdo you on the trails, and that the Xterra can do it all, over and over again as well.

Please don't resort to the tired old "how old are you? I haven't seen you on the trails" BS. I'm 33, the X was purchased in July, 6,300 miles, and your point would be...?

Right back atchya Neal!

By Kyle on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Again , you are clueless... If you stay in it long enough you will understand. As far as the trails are concerned. Maybe you didnt get to the post where I stated I would run whatever he ran.
You have driven your truck a total of 6300 miles. That pretty much says it all right there.. You dont even know what it will and wont do yet...

Kyle

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 02:24 pm: Edit

LOL! Blame it on me!

IF you notice, I'm pretty sly... I instigated it, then stayed out of the rest of the thread.... I just sat back and watched....

I started out in a Jeep Cherokee (XJ), and it was a good starting point. Taught me limitations. I still use 'em every day at work, actually off-road. They're okay.
Then I got a FSJ.... Peter M here will vouch for their capabilities... those older big Jeeps (Wagoneers, J-trucks) are extremely competent in the right hands.

But, I got a Series Rover, and was hooked. Replaced the Cherokee with a Disco, and haven't been happier.

In most cases, it's the driver, not the vehicle. But, different vehicles give you certain advantages over others... different starting points. Before bouncing around in a Jeep I used an old Subaru 4x4, an old Chevy Luv diesel, Ford tractors, etc. etc.... Each have strengths, each have weaknesses...

I've chosen Land Rover because a) it'll do what I want it to do; b) my wife isn't embarrassed to be seen in it (she hated my ugly FSJ), c)is more affordable than other vehicles out there (I paid less for my Disco than a Jeep was going to cost me! This weekend I was pricing parts for my wife's Ford, and the parts were 2 or more times more than the equivelent for my Rover... with me knowing how to shop under alternate names for the Rover! ). My Jeeps had gotten to the point where they were becoming high up-keep from PO's lack-of-care, and I was trying to recover them.... I'd decided to try it the other way this time and get a clean late-model and keep up with it myself.... I've got over 71,000 miles on my '99 Disco, and it's never gone to the dealer... I'm the only one who has worked on it.

My wife once pointed out that I have a love for "old ugly 4x4s".... she pegged it.... Old Jeeps, Series Rovers, 1st generation Broncos, FJ40s, Cornbinders.... I like 'em all... but Rover gets my final nod.

Mi dos centavos.....

-L

By Redsrover (Redsrover) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 02:44 pm: Edit

What's an Xterra go for these days? Loaded up with leather, A/C, 4x4, good rims, stereo, sunroof (or two)?

In July I paid $11,500 for my 1997 Disco 1 SE with ARB bumper and OME HD lift,61,000 miles and full LR warranty until 03/2002.

Red

By Andre X on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 02:46 pm: Edit

Just because you claim you can run whatever trails Nivloc can does not make it so... Maybe in your own little "land of make believe" but not in reality. You are the clueless one Kyle. If you have to resort to questioning my off roading experience instead of defending why you are so hell bent on being the "King of the Hill", then you have more issues than I first thought. My beliefs are based on experience, observation, common sense, and respect for others. You seem to lack all but one of these qualities. If it makes you feel better to think that your Disco can outdo anything else in the world, more power to you. If that's what gets you through the day Kyle, so be it.

Now that I've got a little insight into what the snobby side of the Land Rover crowd is like, I will appreciate even more the LR Discovery owners/friends I already have that are respectful and well informed about all vehicles, not just those in their own little utopian world.

See you on the trails, junior!

By Kyle on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Not snobby at all... And again , you make statements that have no backing. You just put together a bunch of words that have no merit and post it. Where you have been in your truck and what you have done will tell you what its good for and what it isnt. Until you have that experience you are just speculating. I have had other makes including a Nissan and I have seen what they can and cant do. I also spent many years under the hoods of all makes as a mechanic. That gives me more insight into the whole thing regardless if you like it or not. I base my statements on my past experience. What do you base yours on ?

Kyle

By Matt on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 03:09 pm: Edit

Kyle -

I love a good argument as much as the next guy, but aren't you bored with this yet? Anybody who would buy a car that has those stupid "geared to gen x" commercials has no self respect. Personally, I could give a flying fuck about a goddamn Nissan Exterra. These guys don't see it your way and never will. Make it stop. Please make it stop.

I like it better when you pick on Perrone.

Matt

By Kyle on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 03:15 pm: Edit

Cmon , you have to apreciate a guy that has 6 thousand miles on his truck arguing with rover owners that have well over 100K... It says something about the mind set. If I am snobby because my old Disco is still running after carrying my ass all over this continent and back then I dont know what to tell big dog Andre here..What all this makes painfully evident is that if you dont know much of anything , then everything looks about the same. I guess it all boils down to price then which gets thrown around constantly when these things come up...

Kyle

By p m on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 04:00 pm: Edit

kyle - watch out,

the x guys disappear when asked repeatedly about their off-road experience, or some photos to catch an eye. andre will follow the others, if you persist.

better keep asking him technical questions. say, how outdated is an outdated IC engine.

peter

By Kyle on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 04:14 pm: Edit

Peter , he is just being true to his brand , I cant blame the guy for that... I just wish he was a bit more educated on te subject before he started flapping about the topics he picks..

Kyle

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 04:18 pm: Edit

An IC engine that runs on Dinosaur remains, how outdated is THAT??? Sheeeesh....

By Kyle on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 04:27 pm: Edit

LOL,,,,

Kyle

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Damn Ron, I haven't been called ignorant lately.. Been called many others things but, not ignorant..

By Ron on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 04:37 pm: Edit

I did not mean it in quite the way you are taking it. I was shooting for just cuase you don't know that much yet does not make you a poseur or whatever

Never mind. . . .

Ron

"please feel free to bust my balls about it though"

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 04:39 pm: Edit

Don't feel bad, Eric. Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. Now, stupidity may cause problems later in life....

XGill

my new moniker

p.s. thanks for the info on the spare tire location, and thanks for the photos.

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 04:49 pm: Edit

Ron, I was busting your balls about it.. I know what you meant.. However, I do get ignorant some times so you aren't too far off.. Mostly happens when I drink tequila.. Ignorance in a bottle that stuff is.

By p m on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Axel,

how old do you think U238 is? compared to dino fossils?

hehehe...

all the new stuff is under the hood of an Xterra. it's just there ain't too much of it.

peter

By mike w on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 05:47 pm: Edit

i put 6000 miles on my outdated, too heavy, non IFS POS, discovery in the first 3 months i owned it. a portion of which required numerous trips to the car wash (southern ohio mud is sticky as hell) and it sits in the drive begging for mine and Dilbert, the wonder bird dog's return! aawwwwwww life is good to be fat, dumb and happy, content in the knowledge that i dont have to impress anyone, anymore, by buying the latest, greatest cartoon car from japan. hehehe have you ever looked at japanese cartoon flixs. if i am not mistaken i believe i saw an "X" in one of the more recent releases.

By Timmy Blutarski on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 06:14 pm: Edit

New to the board.

I have ridden in a Discovery, seems quite capable and fast. Looks pretty decent too.

I have to say, though, that I think the Land Rover's best years are behind them.

Too many complaints about reliability, and the fact that Ford now has an interest in the company? Does anyone really believe Ford can't fuck LR up? Sorry, but that has me and my money walking.

I'm thinking about doing the next best thing, taking about 1/4 of the money I have saved up for a Disco, and putting it into a stripped down CJ, and using the rest for mods and repairs.

Thoughts?

By mike w on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 06:49 pm: Edit

timmy i must agree, i believe that ford will mess up more than it will fix. soon or later it will end up looking like the common POS's that line the local dealers (God i hope i don't get sued). the idea of American-Japanese builders is to make a lot and sell it fast regardless of how well it was actually designed. sad days ahead. lucky for most we can now point a finger at them and say that the pre-ford land rovers rule, that will give them XTERRA guys some relief....hehehe if you disagree look at the bronco line. was it a better idea? newer has never meant better, and as Scotty would say "the more sinks you put in the system the easier it is to plug the drain"!

By dave on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 06:54 pm: Edit

I am 17 year old brat and my mom baught me a brand new disco. I hate Exterras.

By p m on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 07:18 pm: Edit

Timmy,

gimme your money, i have a disco to put them in.

peter

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 07:22 pm: Edit

Timmy, a CJ would make a nice trail rig but, on a long trip with more then one person you are going to be wishing that you had some thing bigger to carry all the stuff.

By randall phelps (Randall) on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 11:15 pm: Edit

can't we all just get along?

------

Seriously guys, come on. You can't create generalizations on a person based on the truck they purchase / drive anymore than you can based on the brand of khakkis they wear. This is silly. We all think LRs are the best, or we wouldn't be driving them. But there are OTHER vehicles out there, and its just not worth arguing over. Yes, i think the Xterra's roof modeling seems to borrow from the disco. So what? Is it the off road monster the Disco is? maybe not, but truthfully, i'd dig on talking to an X owner anytime. I ride mountain bikes too... but i don't turn my nose up at people who ride different make bikes, nor do i argue with them about whose is better (well, not normally). we do however all ride trails and laugh when we break shit or fall off... and thats what we've gotta do here. Cummon, lets just all smoke a .. i mean GEt a long...

hahahha

By alenbabayan on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 12:18 am: Edit

"BAD ARTICULATION"
I dont think you have a clue of what a stock Disco can do over your X and Jeeps. Price is the same with your X's VS Disco's all around 28k to 32k. You can never keep up with your stock vs my stock. Look at the rest of the pictures and see how deep the Disco crossed the mud hole.

PS. the only thing that has kept up in the IFS world is a TOYOTA TACOMA TRD, wheelbase stops them in most trails.

By Kerensky97 on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 08:32 pm: Edit

Boy this post has just become a bunch of name calling.

Kyle- I'm not sure about Andre but I sure as hell don't know what you keep talking about, your posts are the most general ones on here.
So, tell me what its is that you want to argue about between the Xterra and the Disco.

Is it the whole IC Engine debate???
To me the internal combustion engine IS outdated.
It runs on gasoline which is derived from crude oil. The worlds reserves of oil are expected to run out by 2060 (figure taken from a National Geographic study). This means that the Xterra and the Disco will become obsloete in about 60 years, and we all know that the electric engine will be worthless offroading. The next big thing will have to Hydogen powered engines. So YES the IC engine is or soon will be OBSOLETE!

Was it reliability you were trying to say that the Disco is superior?
Many Disco owners on this very post have said that the Disco isn't the most reliable vehicle.
Sure some Land Rovers have been around for 40 years but so have many Jeeps and we all know that they're crap!
So have some Fords, and Chevys, and some of every single vehicle out there, ever looked at a vintage car magazine? They're not in there because they were the most reliable, there in there because they're the most worked on.
My X is at 41,000 miles and its never been to a dealer for work, the only work I've had to do myself is regular schedueled maintenece, and yes I push my Xterra to its limits offroad(I'll post pictures as soon as I can).
You may argue that it hasn't been around long enough, but my Pathfinder (the closest aproximation to an Xterra that has any age, with the original production version of the same engine) is pushing 12 years old and it still purrs like a kitten.
Many of those Land Rovers that have been around so long, have had huge amounts of work done to them. Sure any vehicle will last 40 years when you constantly repair it. THATS WHAT REPAIR MEANS!!!

Perhaps you think Land Rovers are better because you always see them in Africa or running the Camel Trophy.
The reason you always see them in Africa is because the British Empire's influence reaches acoss the globe, its much easier to import a Land Rover to Africa than it is to import an Xterra or even a Jeep. They don't have more there because it better, they have more because it more available, the parts are more available, and the mechanics know how to work on them.
You want to know what vehicle has more widespread use across the globe than a Land Cruiser?
FORD TRUCKS!!!!
Those old piece of crap trucks are used in Africa (although not as much as the LR), South America (much more than the LR), Europe, Austrailia, and parts of Asia. Not because they're better but because they're easier to fix and parts are cheap.
And as soon as runners in the Camel Trophy are done they hand the keys over to a mechanic that has unlimited funds to repair all the damage and problems the Rover has developed.

If you have any more problems E-mail me, I'd be glad to debate whatever you wanted. Just don't send me something saying:
"LOL,,,,
You make statements that have no backing (They do and I'll find it if you want). The really funny thing here is that you have no idea what I am talking about (true). The Discovery will do it ALL and it will continue to do it over and over and over again (with extensive repairs). The Xterra is just another Japanese cute-ute (designed in California, engineered in Michigan, proven in Arizona and built in Tennessee by the way) that will never have the experience of Land Rover (experience that caused them to design the new Range Rover?)."

My apologies to all the respectable Disco owners here who read through this large post that was directed at the close-minded few.

By Kyle on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 08:55 am: Edit

Kerensky ,

Thats just it , if you look back I only really attacked one thing about the Xterra. Then I spent my time laughing about the dumb asses and their posts. So yes , I LOL quite allot..Now what do you know about the Disco ? The rover in general ? Your Xterra? What "Expensive repairs" have I needed to keep me going in my Disco ? You make these claims like you have some knowledge in the arena. When you boys have made the claims I have asked you to back them. Now I am asking you. You IC engine post was utter crap so please skip that.... And YOU start telling ME how much I have had to spend to get to 136K with my truck..There was one pshycic over there on the Xterra board that could tell exactly what was going on in a still photograph. I suppose there are many over there eh...

Kyle

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 09:02 am: Edit

I know one thing.. I would much rather have a gas engine then some hybrid nuke reactor under my hood.. Could you imagine what would happen in a head on accident with a nuke under your hood.. Hydrogen would be just as bad... Also, we won't run out of gas if we can start drilling in new places that we know has plenty of it. I know of one in particular in Alaska that would make a perfect spot and the greenies are doing nothing but fighting it.

By Cartman on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 09:21 am: Edit

My Nissan was an appliance, the only personality it had was borrowed, I always felt like I was driving an awkward imitation. It never left me stranded, but I never really bonded with it.
I love my Land Rover but it is in the shop AGAIN with maladies I can not repair myself. Ford are a bunch of uncle F%^&*ers. Instead of being busy hanging blue dingle-berries on our LR's, why not just concentrate on making them work properly for a change! So go drive your Xterra, enjoy, make fun of my Land Rover's dismal reliability, it's anchient creaking inefficiencies, it's anachronistic qualities.... at least there isn't anyone LOWERING (slamming) land rovers!

By Ron on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 09:30 am: Edit

Sky man,

You so don't know crap. CT trucks were scrapped after the first few tropheys (cheaper than shipping them back) but after that they were sold, as is, to whoever wanted to buy them, not handed over to a mechanic.

Electric trucks would be phenominal offroad if you could solve the weight issue of the batteries. Think about how an electric motor works and tell me it would not be a huge advantage.

Now the one that really got me was the need constant repair to last 40 years. Hogwash. I have found series rovers sitting for 10 years after 30 years of abuse and neglect, poured a bit of gas down the carb and had them start right up. No major repairs, and in some cases no real maintaince. They are unbelieveable like that. Don't think a x would do the same.

Ron

By Carl E. Cedeholm (Cederholm) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 09:40 am: Edit

Kerensky97,
I'm not getting in the middle of this but, in referenct to you British Empire in Africa statement...A friend of mine from Camaroon tells me the most popular truck for the average Joe in Africa is a Nissan Patrol. Followed by Toyota pickups.
Now if you want to CROSS Africa you choose a Land Rover or Land Cruiser.

There are two Xs that park on my block, I look at them every day and think they look great!
...but I drive a Rover

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 09:48 am: Edit

diesel/electric hybrid would take care of the battery factor some what..

By Ali on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 09:53 am: Edit

Dude,

Let's just respect each others' 4x4s and move on. Name calling, finger pointing and comparing penus sizes is a little too juvenile. I've owned a Nissan, Mits and a RR and they're all good with specific purposes. Although I had the most amount of fun with the Rangie, I also spent the most amount of dough on it as well for mods/maint/etc..

Group hug.

By KJ on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 12:02 pm: Edit

Ali,

I knew there was a reason Kim and I stayed off this thread. For me, I thought it was that I'm a newbie no-nothing (quite true!), but now I realize it was because I can't compare penis size. Dag, beaten on both fronts, LOL! Rover on!

Karen

By p m on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Is it the whole IC Engine debate???
To me the internal combustion engine IS outdated.
It runs on gasoline which is derived from crude oil. The worlds reserves of oil are expected to run out by 2060 (figure taken from a National Geographic
study).

Mr. Kerensky,

since when National Geographic became a scientific authority? All there's left is some above average photography in the magazine. "Study..." Do you really believe NG has resources to estimate the earth's reserves in crude oil? Even up to an order of magnitude?

and, you may bitch as long as you wish about the IC engine, but remember that almost ALL (~95%) other sources of energy (including nuclear powerplants) are using some sort of a thermodynamic machine, diesel engine being the most efficient, gasoline coming second.
There's no alternative to IC engine in the close future, so unless you're on the verge of some major scientific discovery that would make it obsolete, please shut up.

To me the internal combustion engine IS outdated. - this is an ultimate poseur phrase, Mr.Gore-style.

BTW - are you in any way related to A.F.Kerensky?

peter

By LandCruiser on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 12:41 pm: Edit

All you X and Disco owners take a back seat to the vehicle that is used in more remote areas of the world than any other: the Land Cruiser. There is just simply nothing else to say.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 12:47 pm: Edit

yeah, the Land Cruiser has become a real gem lately...more like Boulevard Cruiser.

sorry, back seat driver talkin here...

By LandCruiser on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Yes, you are right the 100 series is Boulevard Cruiser, but only in the U.S. The rest of the world can get a solid axle Land Cruiser.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 01:02 pm: Edit

Where are you located? Our North American Series Disco II may be headed the way of the boulevard thanks to Ford...

By LandCruiser on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 01:09 pm: Edit

I am in the U.S., but I have family in Sydney.

By Milan on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 01:20 pm: Edit

All you guys with your cute Discos are poseurs. My TJ will kick your Disco's ass any day....uhhhh...whoops. Wrong board. I hope I did not post the LR praising post on the Jeep forum...DOH!

I just want to add that my Jeep will take me to the trail, do the trail, and then take me back just as well. I would also not mind driving it cross country even though it won't haul as much stuff. Maybe I'll just take less crap with me. The Disco on the other hand leaves me stranded on regular basis and it does so in town - I'm affraid to off-road it now. But at least I'm stranded in style. Then again, every car manufacturer produces lemons. I just happen to be lucky enough to own one made by LR. Then I remember some discussions on how stock LR diffs are crap and weak and how stronger axleshafts are needed if you want real off-road tires and traction diffs. Then again, I had to upgrade the axleshafts in my Jeep to step up to 35" tires. What's my point? I don't know. What's the point of all these 200+ posts? My friend has a T-shirt saying he'd rather push a LR than drive a Jeep. Maybe I should be wearing it as I seem to be doing more pushing than I like.

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 02:40 pm: Edit

OHHH YEA Land Cruiser LOL
http://www.discoweb.org/discus/messages/1202/5309.html?1005535790

By Kyle on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 07:29 pm: Edit

You cant really argue with a Land Crusher guy. They are nice trucks. Protecting the sills is a bit of a pain and reduces clearance but aside from that its a decent truck...

Kyle

By AL on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 07:42 pm: Edit

Kyle,
Hows the drivetrain on the LC's?
Noticed they have front,center and rear locks 93-96 model years.
Can many thing be done to the susp.?

By Kyle on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 07:50 pm: Edit

Yeah , its basically a rover. Just wider and lower..The Toy diffs are stronger then the rover diffs as well. As I said , its hard to argue with a Cruiser....

Kyle

By DiscoFriendofCruiser on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 11:15 pm: Edit

With a 2" OME kit you can put 35" tires on an FJ80 cruiser, with stock axles and diffs. That's a little tough for a Disco! Also have some factory skid plates on tranny. Factory lockers, as you mentioned above. Doesn't have the option of low range, non center diff-lock that the Disco does. You have to go straight from high range all wheel drive, to low or high range locked four wheel drive. Does have some kind of "power button" that makes the transmission shift at lower rpms, for hills, towing, etc. I think with reasonable maintenance Landcruisers are good for 250K miles before major repairs. That's hard to beat. The 6 cylinder 2F engines, in particular lasted forever, in the 40s, 60s, and very early 80s. In most other countries there are multiple versions of the cruiser, 70 and 75 series, cruiser IIs, Prados, etc. Available in diesel, solid axles, vinyl seats, you name it. I've seen a lot of different versions in some pretty crappy places like Haiti and Nicaragua, and they seem to be the truck of choice when you don't have the option of getting something repaired easily. If any vehicle right now is in use more than any other in the world it might even be the Toyota hi-lux pickup. Cruisers might not have the character of the english trucks, but they do the job.

By Kerensky97 on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 08:17 pm: Edit

"Do you really believe NG has resources to estimate the earth's reserves in crude oil? Even up to an order of magnitude?
Sorry I should have been more clear about the National Geographic thing. The source was an independant research company that got the information for N.G. I can't find the name of the company so here's some info from the government
Slide taken from a government study
It shows the decline of ALL the world's oil production over the next half century. Just think of how much oil prices will rise.

"There's no alternative to IC engine in the close future, so unless you're on the verge of some major scientific discovery that would make it obsolete, please shut up."
Read the paper more often:
This is a government site about hydrogen vehicles
This from another source.
"Hydrogen is already being used to fuel buses in Germany, cars in Japan, and jet planes in Russia."
And Ford expects to have a Hydrogen powered car out within 2 years.

Although Eric brings up a good point about having hydrogen under the hood (although its no a Nuke reactor). Hydrogen is a volatile element and reacts with heat and oxygen, that's why we want to use it as fuel!
Basic Chem lesson:
Two Hydrogen and One Oxygen puls a heat source react explosively to form H2O (pure water), the hydrogen would be kept in fuel cells the Oxygen comes the same way as in an ICE, the air intake.

Some of you may be asking where we will get all this Hydrogen, just run electricity through water and to have two byproducts, Oxygen and Hydrogen. See how the circle completes itself? The only non-renewable part of the equation is the electricity, but if we get solar power then I'm on the verge of some major scientific discovery that would make the IC Engine obsolete!!!
(Cool huh p m )

As for the whole Elecric car thing it sucks, they put out minimal torque and horsepower, good for on road, not off. Here's a cartalk rant about the problems of electric cars.

"I have found series rovers sitting for 10 years after 30 years of abuse and neglect, poured a bit of gas down the carb and had them start right up."
Well that doesn't compare to the Xterra does it, its only been around 3 years.
However I have heard of similar stories from people who found Nissan patrols abandoned in a junkyard. Cars were made better in the past, I wonder if your Disco will be around in 30 years. My X will be, I got a Pathy that was on its last legs, got it back to near perfect condition, and ran it for 6 years (sold it for the Xterra). The Xterra I got in perfect condition and have kept it that way (3 years, 41k miles, 5-10% offroad miles).

" - this is an ultimate poseur phrase, Mr.Gore-style."
This is why I wanted to send E-mails, the useless badmouthing is kind of childish.

By Kerensky97 on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 09:09 pm: Edit

Kyle-

"(1)Now what do you know about the Disco ? (2)The rover in general ? (3)Your Xterra? (4)What "Expensive repairs" have I needed to keep me going in my Disco ? You make these claims like you have some knowledge in the arena."

1. I don't know as much as the Disco as you because I DON'T OWN ONE. However I do alot of research when looking to buy a new vehicle. I learned alot about Discos and how well they handle offroad, but the average repair costs over their lifetime discouraged me, and their initial cost turned me away from them (a new Xterra is 16k less than a new Disco). Xterras have yet to prove themselves but they are based on two proven vehicles the Frontier and the Pathfinder both of which have comparable repair histories to the Disco.

And I'm sure you could tell me a million things about the Disco that I'd never know otherwise. (do you have MPFI or throttle body, are brakes disc or drum, what type of suspension, what are the load rates, what is stock clearance at the lowest point, is there excesive frame flex when crossed up, what is the gearing in the transfer case and diffs, has the rear tire been a problem in rear end collisions, how many inches of wheel travel in the front and rear??? All stock of course.)

2. As for rovers in general I think they're nice if you have deep enough pockets to afford them, I'd love to get a D90 for my offroad adventures but circumstances wont allow me to afford two vehicles at the moment. So the Xterra fills both the on-road and off-road jobs nicely and at a good price.

3. I know my Xterra inside and out, I do all my own work (which hasnt been so much luckily), and can drive it like it was an extension of my body. I've pushed it at every oppertunity and it has come through every time without so much as a rattle or cough. When I'm driving my Xterra, I'm the limiting factor in its capabilities, I chicken out before it gives out. In Moab I bypassed "The Wedgie" because I didn't want to risk body damage (see above paragraph about $$$). I also bypassed "The Launch Pad" because it had been a long day and my adreneline reserves were low, next year on the other hand...

So if You want to know anything just ask, I'd be happy to give you what I know.

4. I don't know what repairs you've needed you'd be better at telling me that. Although in the Video section I see somebody fragging a rear axle in Moab. Not to judge the driving skills of somebody who may not be paying attention to this thread but it looks like a classic case of spinning wheel meets sudden traction.
I think when I refer to "expensive repairs" with Discos, I think along the lines of how much more the dealers charge for any repair plus the high price of the parts that are needed in the repair.
My friend was a mechanic at an LR dealer for a time (thats why I thought about buying one, I had an inside deal) and said he made bank on every customer that came in. The prices were nearly twice what it was for the same thing at Nissan!

Any more questions, I'd urge you to send an E-mail, I'd love to discuss whatever you want, but I think this thread has long since lost its appeal to all. (Probably set a record for mosts replies on this board though!)

By Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 04:18 am: Edit

yeah this one has been going for a while...I say you shouold leave $$ and all out oof this and just take your trucks to the trail on see who can do the most in thier stock form. x-terras might be worthy if they were solid axles not the IFS junk..

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 04:23 am: Edit

No , not a record at all. And now we are getting somewhere. Yes , if you pick up a mag you will read the stats there that came from every soccer mom and dad that complained about how their truck treated them. We are certainly the minority here (Those that actually use the trucks) and our opinions and success will never show up in motor trend or on any of the stat sites.
It will be the same for the Xterra , the complaints will come from the Anal retentive crowd and thats what will hit the mags and the stat sites.
Yes , I am quite aware of the weaknesses Rovers have and I am quite vocal about it at all times. The diff in that video did explode and it was due more to driving style then it was the diff itself , but the diffs are weak from the get go and should be upgraded..
As far it being expensive ? I think if you look around here a bit you will see that they really arent. All those mag articles have done us a very nice favor and lowered the prices for us
As far as the launch pad gos , I have been through the three trail combo of Poison spider,golden spike,gold bar twice and I have yet to even see the damn thing,,,lol I wouldnt feel badabout by passing. Apparently we do every year..
I want to keep this Thread alive so go right ahead and post.

Kyle

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 04:36 am: Edit

We usually go up to the overlook, then pick up the trail to Golden Spike from there instead of backtracking, that's probably why we always miss the Launch Pad. The guide books all state that the trail up to the overlook is a dead end, but that's not true. The trail at the end of the parking area does - as we know - connect with Golden Spike.

As for a hydrogen fueled engine being a high tech replacement for the IC engine - excuse my ignorance, but doesn't IC mean Internal Combustion? I would certainly hope that the hydrogen is combusted internally in these new engines, and not outside of them. So a working hydrogen fueled engine is still a IC engine......

Axel

By Jarrod on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 04:45 am: Edit

Kerensky -

Although your e-mails come across a litttle self-important (not trying to start a feud, but read them over - they do), I will give you credit for good posts these last two times. I think that what we all want is to be able to debate, answer challenges and questions in respectful way, and use this as a forum, not a mud-slinging area.

I am new to the Disco fold, but I have already fallen in love with my truck. It has a toughness and somewhat ugly asthetic quality that somehow I love. As with when I owned my Scout, I realize that over the years I may hate this truck at times when it breaks down and I pay out of the ass for some part that I should not have to, I will also love it when it is the truck that gets me through the snow or mud or over the rocks that others cannot get by.

I could be shown fact after fact evidencing how another vehicle could be more reliable and cheaper to run, but none of this will get me to give in and tell anybody that MY TRUCK is not the best. The people on this site, the Xers, and anybody else chipping in have pride and loyalty to their vehicle and will defend it at all costs. That's the way it should be!

Only one comment to make to you and to a lot of the other X-posters. Only one HUGE misconception to clear up.........................THE MAJORITY OF US DO NOT OWN EXPENSIVE TRUCKS!!!!!! This point comes up over and over and over again about how much money we are spending on our trucks. While this is true for a new Disco, my impression of this board has been that new Disco owners are a minority. I think that most of us have looked and found good used vehicles that do not cost an arm and a leg. When I got my truck, I sold a '92 full-size chevy blazer for $12K, then turned around and bought my '95 Disco for just a little less than that. I spent the left over money on a lift and good tires. Tell me that was not a trade up!!!!...and for no extra money, I might add. People need to quit thinking that these are such expensive trucks and using that fact as a main tennant of their arguements. (not necessarily directed at you Kerensky, but to all)

Happy debating!! ; )

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 10:56 am: Edit

I would agree with what Jarrod said.. Why pay for a brand new car or truck when as soon as you drive it off the dealers lot you just lost a couple grand no matter what you bought. I bought mine with 8,000 miles on it.. Still almost new was a 98 model and I bought it in Nov of 98. Saved 5 1/2 grand on a truck that was only about 8 months old..

By X-man on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 12:04 pm: Edit

Kyle:

Just like the majority of Disco's never go off road - no surprise considering the cost - there are many Xterra's that never leave the pavement also. There are many exceptions, though. Here are some examples, some from Moab, even, since you seem to be hung up on that:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t8232.html

X-man

By Jarrod on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Curious, X-man - what's your ride like? Just wondered since you are so hung up on proving your point?

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 12:22 pm: Edit

Some decent pics there X man but I am not quite sure what your post meant. I am actualy not real hung up on Moab. Its easy compared to some places...

Kyle

By p m on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 04:08 pm: Edit

"There's no alternative to IC engine in the close future, so unless you're on the verge of some major
scientific discovery that would make it obsolete, please shut up."
Read the paper more often:
This is a government site about hydrogen vehicles
This from another source.
"Hydrogen is already being used to fuel buses in Germany, cars in Japan, and jet planes in Russia."
And Ford expects to have a Hydrogen powered car out within 2 years.

Kerensky, me coming from Russia shouldn't be bitchin about it, but - on most if not all international routes Aeroflot uses western-made airplanes, and even the russian-made planes tend to sport GE or Rolls Royce engines. So let's put aside my homeland's experiments in jet engines as totally irrelevant.

Although Eric brings up a good point about having hydrogen under the hood (although its no a Nuke reactor).
Hydrogen is a volatile element and reacts with heat and oxygen, that's why we want to use it as fuel!
Basic Chem lesson:
Two Hydrogen and One Oxygen puls a heat source react explosively to form H2O (pure water), the hydrogen
would be kept in fuel cells the Oxygen comes the same way as in an ICE, the air intake.

so, here as Axel noted, you still use IC engine to perform the fuel-wasting process. With the ideal efficiency of 23% (never reached).

Some of you may be asking where we will get all this Hydrogen, just run electricity through water and to have
two byproducts, Oxygen and Hydrogen. See how the circle completes itself? The only non-renewable part of
the equation is the electricity, but if we get solar power then I'm on the verge of some major scientific
discovery that would make the IC Engine obsolete!!!
(Cool huh p m )

there you go. Our ability to harness solar energy is at about 1% efficiency, costs let aside. At the equator, you get ~1380 watts per square meter. Easy to figure out what does it take to provide ONE vehicle with the hydrogen it needs.

if you use electricity produced otherwise, you use IC engine twice - when it is produced, and when you consume hydrogen. So you waste natural resources at a rate that's 1/efficiency faster than if you used gasoline, about 5-8 times, that is.
And electric plants aren't most environmental-friendly institutions around.

again, don't call IC engine outdated or obsolete, unless you really know something good. Which, i believe, nobody does at present.

peter

By PerroneFord on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 04:26 pm: Edit

Wasn't there an outfit in Arizona or some such place that put a bunch of Optima Batteries in a IIA 88 and used it as a wheeling truck? I have pics of it in one of my LR magazines.

If I remember correctly, they really LIKED the thing for wheeling, because unlike the gasoline engine, they had full torque right off-idle. They were developing enough horsepower to pass on the highway, and enough torque to pull out other stuck vehicles as I remember.

It only ran a few hours on a charge, but it sure seemed effective when it was running.

Anyone know more about them?

By PerroneFord on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Found more info:

Company is Wilde Evolutions

http://store.wilde-evolutions.com/wilde/roverFaceOff.html

By j.d on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 05:49 pm: Edit

those x-terra pictures were quite entertaining, but till i see videos or pictures that are in the same ball park as the camel trophy the x-terra will always remain a hip-hop-mini van worthy of mall cruising....

By X-man on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 07:02 pm: Edit

The Camel Trophy was a bunch of people trashing Land Rovers that wasn't theirs, so I don't know if that's a fair comparison. Is there anywhere I can see videos of anyone driving their OWN Land Rovers on trails in that league?

By my96disco (Trevorh) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 07:15 pm: Edit

For people wanting pictures of an XTERRA off the tarmac, there is a picture on Discoweb already!

http://www.discoweb.org/jeffbieler

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Yes X man , we have one for sale here....

Kyle

By X-man on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 07:51 pm: Edit

You have an Xterra for sale, Kyle? How much?

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 07:59 pm: Edit

You asked if there was someplace you could find land rovers and their owners running difficult trails. We have one for sale.... There you have it.

Kyle

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Just to be fair, the pic of me pulling the Disco is part of a series of photos. He got to pull me out of the same ditch.

At the time, we both had front stock air dams (the Xterra and the Disco). I was also running stock tires with 40k miles and they were pretty well bald at that point. Not much traction in the wet soil. In stock form both trucks have similar approach angles and the ditch was too steep to tackle without tearing up plastic. He has since changed to an ARB on the Xterra (looks good) and I have trimmed our bumper.

Anyway, I run with the Southern California Xterra Club sometimes. I own a Frontier 4x4. Right now, the Frontier is a lemon law legal action. The judge meets with my lawyer and Nissans on the 7th of December to decide if we get a court date or if he wants mediation first. Oh the joy...

I won't get into the contest of which truck is better. I have my opinion of both and having had the opportunity to take both on the same trails, I know what I have found. My Frontier has a few extra inches of wheel base and rear overhang versus and Xterra, but they otherwise share the same running gear and chassis.

Our 1997 Disco that I got with 35k miles and a 1 year LR warranty was LESS then the 1999 Frontier I bought new , was about $6k less then a new Xterra 4x4, and was less then the used Xterras I saw on the market when we bought the Disco.

I guess my simple reply got a bit long winded. Sorry.

Jeff

By X-man on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 08:35 pm: Edit

Sorry Kyle, your post was right after the one from trevorh, I thought you were referring to his post. My bad. You are selling a video, ok. I'll think about it.

By Craig on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 09:40 pm: Edit

Ok, came in way late here:
1. I can't believe no one has even mentioned the word Datsun.
2. Still waiting to see some pics.
3. Poughkeepsie Gulch is extreme?! C'mon man I live in CO. nice try!
4. Turned around on the Spike eh?
5. Who wants to donate an X's body to put on my Rover chassis?
6. still no pics.
All in all. this is how I see it.
It's not what you buy, It's not what you build, IT's WHAT YOU USE!!!
Craig

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 09:45 pm: Edit

Craig:

Datsun?? You are showing your age now......
(I remember when Nissan were Datsun, too)

Axel

By Craig on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Don't remind me Axel!
Craig

By mike w on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 10:33 pm: Edit

uh i mentioned datsun...hehehe,oh, i am older than Kyle. u know X-dude.....those same Camel Trophy Land Rovers are, in some cases, for sale and still in 90% of the units in service, hmmmm let me say it slower S....T....I....L...L.... out there in use today. tell me in about 100,000 miles will your beloved Xterra be a functional vehicle. No disrespect intended, but look at Datsun/Nissian. the olser engines are pretty much sewing machines but the newer ones wont last like the old ones. they arent meant to. we live in a world of disposable goods. plastic cups and paper plates, good for a while but will they last, hell no they arent meant to, if the did then how could any business stay in business. now i am no market expert but THINK....THINK....you have a nice car, interesting features, awesome commerical, but in the end i will be driving my 94 when you have traded in your third Xterra. enjoy it now for it wont be there in the end. ONE LIFE....LIVE IT dude!

By Jeeper Brian (Jb1) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Wow! Neato pictures guys! Picture contests are nice, they bring out the best off-road photoagraphy from everyone's collection. We've only had one here at the D-Web, guess it's just not that important to us. It seems you X-ers take alot of pics every time you wheel, something I wish I did.

I have conclusively decided one thing from this thread...X-ers are better photographers than the Disco crowd.

Brian

By Ron L on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 02:16 pm: Edit

X-MAN

Tillamook Forest, I'll be there around Christmas, Care to come along. Dont worry I have plenty of recovery gear. I wont give you shit for owning an X, there will be plenty of Jeeps, Landrovers, A Hummer or two.

....and if you think for a momment that doesnt qualify as a Camel Trophy Run, YOUR DEAD WRONG. This is the harshest winter offroading I have ever experienced, Flash Floods, Snow Dumps......

BTW... I am 30 years old, I WORK FOR MY MONEY. I OWN my 2000 Discovery. Bought it in 2001 with 4200 miles for 26,000. And if you think for a momment Mommy supports me, its the other way around. That stereo type of "STATUS" falls extremely short in my circumstance. For me any SIMILAR features in a comparable vehicle was well over 30K (and I am not talking about offroad performance). I give a shit less about the status it gives me. I do like when somebody looks at my scratches and thinks I am a nut for doing this in a LR.

Ron L

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 04:35 pm: Edit

Brian,

There are some FANTASTIC photographers in the Xterra clubs. Brian Mckibbin (Xtoolbox) is one of the more "famous" guys. There are some others as well. As you noticed, they are pretty prolific too.

Here's a album list from SCCX:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=270535

By Gregg Warnken (Gregg) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 11:45 am: Edit

Wow those are some hardcore gravel roads and parking lots those Xers are "off roading" on! I especially like the pic where the guy parked with his wheel on the rock. Man I wish I had such a cool pic like that of my truck! Shit...I have done worse than that in my 2 wheel drive Audi..

Gregg

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 12:28 pm: Edit

Gregg, you're right. Some of those trails aren't the most difficult. That being said, if you're willing to browse, there are some nice shots by some pretty good photographers. They do get out at least 2 times a month as a group and they do take some decent road trips. They're also a club that caters to taking families off road, not a hard core off roaders.

Too bad you're too much of a fuck head to see that.

By Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 12:45 pm: Edit

Speaking of Datsuns...........

My first Datsun was a '79 that lasted for 130,000 miles. Then, I upgraded to a Nissan that lasted about 108,000 before recycling. Those vehicles completely met the sterotype of being disposable.

I hope to get twice as many miles on the Disco.

V-22 Guy

By Ron L on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Jeff,

I agree with you. Couldnt have said it better myself.

Ron L

By Craig on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 02:06 pm: Edit

I think that was Gregg's way of saying that we still have not seen any pics of something a bone stock Disco wouldn't laugh at. If the Xboys are going to boast, show me something and I'll shut up.
Craig

By Gregg on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Yeah thats me...Captain Fuckhead. Sheesh...touch a sore spot guys? Wasn't bustin on the photo quality. Wasn't bustin on the fact that they GET OUT THERE. Thats good. I was just chimin in with my worthless opinion, stirred up by a few of these chumps throwin mud our way. Not like I was the fuckhead who went to their board and instigated all this.....sheesh. Get real.

By Gregg on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 02:15 pm: Edit

Thank you Craig! Words outta my mouth..
Gregg

By Kyle on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 02:34 pm: Edit

Hye , I was the second fuck head in the line that went over there!!!

Kyle

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 03:13 pm: Edit

OK Gregg. I'll pass out the Peace Pipe.

I was responding to Jeeper Brian's post about the quality of the pics, not of their off road content. I wheel with and am friends with the guys in the photo album you blasted.

No, it's never been terribly hard core, but we have fun, we camp in some beautiful spots, familes are encouraged to attend, etc. Some of the trails can be tough, but they don't center the events around that. I've done more challenging stuff with other groups. That's not what those pics were/are about.

Yeah it did hit a sore spot. "My truck can beat up your truck" arguements belong in the elementary school I teach at. I usually find that people that get too proud find themselves eating humble pie a lot of the time.

Jeff

By Craig on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 03:23 pm: Edit

I'll take that as:
"no, Mr. snotty Rover Guy, we don't have any pictures of Datsuns on anything a stock disco would walk over."
thanks for the answer.
Craig

By Craig on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 03:33 pm: Edit

On a 'Mid-thread' note:
I do miss my 91 FJ80 sometimes:} I bought it new in early 92. Drove it for 5.5 years. put 96,000 miles on it with nothing more than routine services. BEAT THE PISS out of it! and I only lost 5K on the car at trade in for (you guessed it) my first Rover.
Craig

By Gregg on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 04:18 pm: Edit

To be honest I do alot of that, just getting out with friends in some nice spots and camping. Don't care to crawl over every rock I see if I can get around it without trashing my vehicle. I guess I just didn't read far enough into the pic post to see that these guys are NOT the ones saying "my truck can beat up your truck". But, like Craig, I was looking at the pics to see an Xterra in some REAL action, like alot of the folks here do in their trucks. I STILL don't see any Xterras getting close to what alot of Disco owners here do with their trucks....

*smokin my peace pipe*

Gregg

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 04:28 pm: Edit

hmmm...Craig, take a bigger puff and inhale this time!

By Craig on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 04:54 pm: Edit

Naw- if I inhale, I'll never be elected President of the local xterra club
Craig

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 05:01 pm: Edit

hmmmmm....good point. Now we'll have to call you Slick Craig

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 05:07 pm: Edit

BTW, just to clear things up. I am NOT an Xterra owner. I have my D1 and my IIA. I used to run in a 4x4 Frontier when I played more regularly with the group whose pics I posted. These days I don't see them as often, but I keep in touch as we're pretty much neighbors. I don't think the guys in SCCX have come over to DiscoWeb in this thread.

As for what's in the pipe, anything you want except for those damn Capri cigarettes that Kim smoked at ICS in Truckhaven. I didn't know if they were cigarettes or toothpicks!

Jeff

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 05:17 pm: Edit

Oh Jeff, don't start telling people about your Datsun Series IIA again...

and why did Kim us alligator clips to hold those Capri's?

By Nick on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 04:01 pm: Edit

My 99 Trooper is better than everything.
So there!

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 04:05 pm: Edit

Really, I have never even riden in one of those. What are they like and what makes them so good?

By Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 12:05 pm: Edit

you are kidding me

By braz on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 03:05 pm: Edit

that was alot of reading i need a nap

By Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 09:02 pm: Edit

It Must be the Holidays:

My neighbor, an Exterra owner gave me a cool piece of gear for mounting mountain bikes and snowboards on my roof racks. It's step that slides over the back tire and gives you about 1.3 feet of extra height for easier roof access. He said he didn't need it and I could keep it.

Now I just need a big ass LR sticker to cover the NISSAN logo.

By Xterra owner on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 11:56 am: Edit

Here are some more picts from the Xterra website. Its kinda like a Christmas Gift for you.

Enjoy!

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=20&t=001803

By stirstirstir on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 09:28 am: Edit

in all reality the willys' CJ3B is the all time best off road vehicle! exceeding all the performances levels of the Xterra and the Disco.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 09:36 am: Edit

Okay, but then I want you to take that Willys, 4 other people and all of their personal kit along with yours, and drive from Key West to Nome, Alaska. And then back. And, do recreational off-roading side-trips along the way.

Not as much fun in the Willys, eh?

-L

By stirstirstir on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 11:28 pm: Edit

it can be done but veryyyyyyyyyy slowly!

By AL on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 12:39 am: Edit

Hi All,
Check this out.

www3.bc.sympatico.ca/DMMcG/xterra.wmv

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 11:32 am: Edit

leslie, i want to drive to nome alaska, but i cant find a road to get there, or even an off road tract. do you know something i dont?

rd

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 11:53 am: Edit

You could do it if you really wanted too. Would just take some creative trip planning. I have been considering doing that in two or three years. Wonder if three weeks would be enough to drive there and back.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 12:00 pm: Edit

That's why we drive Land Rovers, isn't it??

Nah, actually..... I didn't put Juneau because I knew you had to take a ferry to get there... I didn't think far enough about checking to get to "Nome"... but 11 will take you to Prudhoe Bay, if you so desire....

-L

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 12:09 pm: Edit

I know a few people that live in different parts of Alaska that could help with the routes to take. Now to find a way to get the Disco delivered to the west coast with out me having to drive it to save time. Oh well. I have a couple of years to figure that out any ways. I'll look into that when I'm up there in June.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 12:28 pm: Edit

eric, i am quite serious,. i have been looking at maps and and all sorts of satelite picture and talking on bbs's etc, and i cant seem to find a road to get there... maybe you could drive up the coast, but i was thinking of going straight from fairbanks , hehe..

i want to drive that alaskan highway just to have done it, but i am dissapointed to hear that it is mostly paved now and where it's not there is gravel. i suppose i coudle do it in winter time for some extra challenge, but then i cant really enjoy the outdoors/ hike denali when i get there.

also looking to see if there is an alkan highway wanna be that is still rugged like the old highway. maybe take that instead.

alas, i have given up on the idea for this comming year (2002). maybe in 2003??

rd

By JC on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 12:36 pm: Edit

"Here are some more picts from the Xterra website. Its kinda like a Christmas Gift for you.

Enjoy!

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=20&t=001803 "

Thank you Thank you Thank you

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 12:49 pm: Edit

One of my father-in-law's good friends rode his Harley from Phx to Alaska on the old unpaved highway. He logged some ridiculous amount of miles pushing the damn thing...

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 01:26 pm: Edit

Rob, I might be up for that trip in 2003 if you want some company. I'm going up to Denali and a few other places in June. Going to spend about two weeks up there. Could always drive the dog sled trails. I'll ask and see if there is a road or trail that will take you from Fairbanks to Nome.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 03:07 pm: Edit

hehe

okay

dont forget now,, it's only 18 months away

rd

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 05:14 pm: Edit

Yep, you have to fly in. There are only three roads to Nome they go to Teller, Council, and Taylor. None have roads anywhere else though that I could find. Even those roads close durring the winter. The only way would be to fly, dog sled, or snow mobile. Now I'm wondering if you can drive a truck on the trail that the snow mobile and dog sleds use. A trip to even Denali or some place in Alaska that we can get to by driving would be cool.. The only hard part would be getting the time off of work. Of course who knows I may not have a job the way Telcom is going.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 06:09 pm: Edit

hehehe, we need someone to come along that is not intimidated buy the lack of road. hmm, but who.

i recon it might take several years to drive to nome, man we would be cool if we did it

thats enough day dreaming
rd

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 07:08 pm: Edit

Yes, and I'm not going to be worrying about bumper damage in the middle of no where in Alaska. Plus now that I have 4 1/2 inches or so of lift it's a little further from the ground. I should be able to make those rocks from last time without crushing my quarter pannels in. But, yes, your right, we would need others to go as just two trucks may not be enough if some thing bad happens. I do have to admit though that my truck looks pretty damn funny with my little tires.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 07:10 pm: Edit

road....watroad?

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