By Al on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 06:59 pm: Edit

In the previous posting Fram PH8A can be used for the disco. I have 97 can I use this oil filter?
Thanks

By Bill B on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 10:32 am: Edit

Yes, the Ford small block filter is correct size, but FRAM= BAD! - very cheap filters. Better options are Mobil l, K&N, AC Delco Gold, etc.

Bill B

By Al on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 11:25 am: Edit

Bill thanks for your recomendation but...
I work for the company which makes FRAM oil filters (Honeywell formerly AlliedSignal). Have you seen the cross section of a Fram Oil Filter?
I know they are cheap but does that mean its not as good as other oil filter? Please dont be offended but I think there is no solid proof which supports that one oil filter is better than the other. Thanks again

By Bill B on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 11:32 am: Edit

I meant to add the link to an oil filter study which was done last year and I cannot find it right now, but Fram did not come out well at all. The study even included a statement from a Fram engineer pointing out a few things. No offense to you directly of course, but I'll keep looking for the link and post it when I find it.

Ron - do you have this link from last year?

Bill B

By Ron on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 11:58 am: Edit

I don't have the link but I remember reading it and Bill is right. I personally buy the gennies. That way I don't have to mess around to get the exact amount of oil into the system.

Ron

By Al on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Garrett Turbochargers are one of the products of Honeywell which are used in engines of CAT, DDC, John Deere, International, DAF, MAN, Land Rover, BMW, SAAB, engines. These turbo needs a full flow oil filter of 20 microns max rating and FRAM is widely used by most especially on-highway and off-highway medium and heavy duty engines e.g. CATERPILLAR etc. By the way the turbo diesel Freelander uses Garrett Turbo.

By Ray Gunn on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 01:10 pm: Edit

FWIW, I have used Fram filters (oil, fuel & air)for 25 years on all my vehicles, including som ehigh rpm race vehicles. I have a buddy who uses Fram filters on his Cessna. No filter related failures, ever. Someone is blowing smoke here...

By Bill B on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 01:17 pm: Edit

Found one of the oil filter studies, but there is another also. Below is a link to one. Makes for interesting reading.

http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html


Bill B

By Ron on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 01:19 pm: Edit

http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html

http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilter-fram1.txt

I don't think it is the same test but Fram came out quite badly. No smoke here.

Ron

By Al on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 01:48 pm: Edit

Forget About the study. Who did this study or survey. Lets get to the fact. Go look at all those heavy duty engines in construction sites, marine application see if you could see K & N or AC delco etc. We are talking 24 hours non stop operations of engines here.
The problem is we are all inclined to believe in statistical survey. Lets go for proof.

By Russ on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 02:35 pm: Edit

One clarification on FRAM. It is not owned by Honeywell. It was sold before the Allied Signal/ Honeywell merger. BTW, I work for Garrett Engine Boosted Systems. Great Turbos and Fram was/is a verygood filter as well. Honeywell as well as Garrett will soon become part of the GE family and will only get stronger. Lets hope we see some Garrett turbos on Diesels in future NAS Land Rovers.

By Bill B on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 02:47 pm: Edit

Study mentioned above was not statistical in nature at all, but was based on component study of many filters - this is real - it is what the filters are made of. I too have run Fram's in the past on both street and high compression/rpm engines with high flow/pressure oil pumps and have experienced two canister failures with Fram. One canister split completely and one began to leak at the crimp between the body and top of the filter. Admittedly these were on race engines and not mild Rover V8's - but it was more than enough to make me never look back. Not here to blow smoke - just to relate past experience.

Bill B

By Ron on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 03:00 pm: Edit

That is funny. I used a Frame PH8A on the scout (one of its two oil changes under my ownership, as it leaked and burned so much I just added and figured that was good enough) and it leaked at the crimp. I chaulked it up to the high temps and, based on nothing other than it was on sale, went with the pureoilater.

Ron

By Al on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 04:58 pm: Edit

I respect your choice of filter but out of you two it does not mean that its a bad filter. Please look at the study carefully. The data that was collected is only based on the construction, size, features and material used. It does not even indicate how many microns can these oil filter can filter. This might be an old study because the Fram filter that is shown in the picture does not use the teflon material. Correct me if Im wrong this might be a biased study. A good example is if JD Power chooses Land Cruiser as the best 4x4 of course you wont believe it right? Cause you know its always Land Rover.

By Bill B on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 10:04 am: Edit

Hey - this is starting to get interesting now!

The following link probably has to be taken with a grain of salt since it is off the AC Delco website, but it does have a filtration comparison of various "high-end" oil filters out there now.http://www.acdelco.com/parts/1191c.htm

Course this is all statistical, but interesting all the same. Looking at other websites, it seems as if some manufacturers rate by SPE percentage, and some by particle size filtered (in microns). Seems alike all of this could be flawed because both are based on what happens when the filter is brand new (I think) - wonder what the results are after a few thousand miles?

Any other takers to further this debate? (remember, all in fun folks)

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 11:26 am: Edit

I have used the Fram on an FE ford of mine shifting it at around 8,200 and never had a problem. Its always been my opinion that frequent oil changes pretty much make all those filtration studies a moot point. Oil changes are pretty cheap and pretty easy. Change often!!!

Kyle

By Bill B on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 11:42 am: Edit

Good point, regardless of synthetic oil and good filters, I always change at 3000 miles. Very cheap insurance even with synthetic. Seen/heard of too many 3.9 and 4.0 engines needing rods and mains at low mileages. Course now I'm paranoid and want to pull the pan and check mine.

By Al on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 06:50 pm: Edit

BTW Fram is still owened by Honeywell (soon to be GE.) I dont work for Fram. I work for Garrett Engine Boosting System which makes turbochargers. The only point Im trying to make about this topic is Garrett Turbochargers has an average of 120,000 rpm and it can out last any engine up to 600,000 miles. But its function and durability depends on the oil that it takes from the engine. So a good oil filter is essential. I use LR genuine oil filter in my 97 Disco but if I can use Fram PH8A I will because it cheap and as effective as the rest.

By sg on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 11:32 pm: Edit

To get back to the message that started this thread, the PH8A size is like the second most common oil filter on the planet. Crossovers include the A/C PF-2 and the Purolator PER-1.

Cheers

By Milan on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 10:53 am: Edit

FWIW, I have used the Fram filters on my Ford V8 as well. I did find once during an oil change that the filter was completely dry. I normally put oil in the filter before installing it so I don't know what happened here. When I looked down the holes, that paper element inside was colored from the oil but was not completely saturated and the filter was empty. It never happened before or after, so I have no idea what caused it. If the oil passages were blocked, I'd expect it happening again unless it was a fluke.

Anyway frequent oil changes are good but if filter lets bigger particles through to begin with, the engine will wear more and will wear out sooner. How much sooner is hard to tell as I never had one vehicle/engine for more than 120,000 km (75K miles). Suffice to say I think all filter today are fairly good and with oil changes every 3000 miles or less, I'm not afraid to use Fram or its Penzoil equivalent though I think they both did not come out too well in the study.

By Paul L on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 12:01 pm: Edit

Fram has a filter that has a 1st pass efficiency of 96 or 98%. How can that be bad. By the way, I use the PH16. Never heard of using a PH8. Is there a difference?

By Russ on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 03:06 pm: Edit

AL, you're 100% right, I made a big error telling everyone FRAM was sold. I was writing one thing and thinking something else. It's not the first time, and won't be the last.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 05:03 pm: Edit

PH16A is the short version. Its actually a Dodge filter.

Kyle

By tc on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 01:31 am: Edit

What is the difference between the short version and the long version?

By Bill B on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 08:29 am: Edit

Short vs long is a capacity issue only - same filter mounting and gasket. One just holds more oil and has more internal filter media.

By Ron on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 09:34 am: Edit

And the gennie is right in between in size. Just so you can't get an exact fit replacement anywhere but the dealer. Correct.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 11:41 am: Edit

No , I dont think so , the dodge filter is bigger around then the LR filter there fore its got a better profile and holds the same amount of oil.

Kyle