By James Shackelford (Shack) on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 05:23 pm: Edit

All,

Here is an opinion thread. In looking over the twist-off finals, it seems that the "new" big thing is to say you have all springs retained. In addition, I have heard people comment on spring guide systems such as RTE's, RockWare, and Dessert Rover as useless. Mainly because they think that any extra down-travel is unsprung weight.

How do you feel?

In testing my setup (RTE 3" with cones), I find that the extra travel does indeed help. I was doing some testing the other day in a construction site where they piled many mounds of dirt around (great place to test articulation). I found that I could easily drive through while the springs where coming unseated, and that they definitely helped. Yes, there is some wheel spin, but the extra bit of traction helped forward momentum.

Likewise I feel that an unseated spring isn't all unsprung weight. The force of up-travel on the opposite side of the vehicle is a cantilever to down-travel on the unseated side.

Lastly, has anyone wondered about sidehill ability with the springs unretained. Would this add to the probability for the vehicle to roll over.

James

By John on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 06:08 pm: Edit

Actually this is a good thread...I have felt that the point of rolling over is a point when reached is not because of the 200 lbs of axle you arent picking up with retained springs. I feel you have reached a point that momentum carries you over regardless. Off camber tips that happen when you reach that "no longer can carry the upper body weight" and the momentum you are carring rolls you over.I find it hard to believe that picking up 200 lbs of axle will prevent that point of occurance. I think good driving and good lines are the best weight you can carry in your pocket, along with working up your skill level slowly. How many rollovers have we heard of....very few, and generally the roll overs are people pushing edges that they shouldnt have to begin with or competitive events with coilovers. I really am not defending cones, but giving an opinion. I am very interested in all the responses as it makes us more all more educated hopefully.

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 06:29 pm: Edit

another thing to consider is the fact that those unretained springs are most likely much stiffer than stock, so the downslope side of the truck doesn't compress (and increase side angle of truck) as easily as say, stock setup would.

200 lbs of unretained axle is what...4% of total weight of truck? You can't rely on that insignificant amount of weight to keep you right-side-up. If you are relying on that extra weight, you're one screwed-up mofo IMO.

By Alex on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 07:53 pm: Edit

I've been in a situation where it sure felt like 200 pounds would tip me over. Have a look at this image.
http://www.discoweb.org/alexschubow/blmd-g1.jpg

By got clunk? on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 08:00 pm: Edit

Say you were in a real hairy situation, not only 200 lbs would make a difference, but a hair and some momentum.

Now, some of you are saying that 200 lbs under there wont' matter? but an extra jerry can up in the rack would roll you over?

What bothers me the most is the noise of the cone thing.
CLUNK!!

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 08:41 pm: Edit

Oh yes there are times when you really really wish you had that 200lbs back !

Kyle

By James S. (Shack) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 12:08 am: Edit

All,

I have noticed that the RTE cones are MUCH quieter than those sold by RockWare or Dessert Rover. Plus Jim's stuff is rock solid.

On the tipping side, maybe a limiting strap would help. It would also prevent stressing the shocks when pulled to there max extension.

James

By John on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 07:52 am: Edit

I own a Disco and a D-90...and I will have to say I would never run cones on the shorter wheelbase .The disco with its longer wheelbase and extra overhang weight I feel offers a more stable platform in general. The guys running the d-90's out west retain their springs for a good reason, no wheelbase. I notice the rock buggies being built currently by several people first thing they are doing is going to 104" or 107" wheelbase to get stability.