By Jake V. on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 11:26 pm: Edit

I wanted to know what everyone else has used for front recovery points with a stock bumper and a factory brush guard. I know there are spots on the brush guard, but I want something stronger also. I was thinking about adding some tow hooks to the front, but I'm not sure where to put them.
And what about the rear recovery points, the factory ones look weak - like they might bend out, what about replacing them with tow hooks as well.

By Mike B. on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 11:51 pm: Edit

The tow hooks (in the rear) you refer to are actually tie downs for transporting the vehicle. They will shear right off if you try to recover the vehicle using them. Put a shackle bracket in your 2" Class 3 hitch in the rear. 4x4 Connection sells them as does Atlantic British.

The front brush bar is a little weak for recovery, but can be used in a jam. Make sure the bolts are very tight and rig a harness to both recovery points. Have them pull you out gently (no snatching and no chains). The brush bar has a tendency to rotate up and back into the hood and fenders.

The only front recovery point that I know of is one sold by Terrain Master in the UK. Give Nathan Crabtree a jingle to see if he is stocking that item yet (boatbuggy@aol.com). Otherwise you can order directly from Terrain Master. Shipping will take longer, but buying overseas is no big deal.

Thanks,
Mike B.

Receiver Shackle Bracket:

By Mike B. on Thursday, June 07, 2001 - 11:55 pm: Edit

For front recovery points, head to www.terrainmaster.com. Here is a picture of their jackpoint:



Thanks,
Mike B.

By wes on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 01:01 am: Edit

Is that mounted on a disco?

By Mike B. on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 03:10 am: Edit

It does look strange. I never really looked at the vehicle before.

Thanks,
Mike B.

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 08:19 am: Edit

Pull your front air dam, attach 2 JATE/lifting rings to the frame rails, and you have a solid front recovery set up. The rings are available from major Rover parts shops, AB,BP, RN, etc.

You can do the same at the rear, or you can use the hitch shackle.

By Steve (Oz93discov8) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 09:22 am: Edit

The Australian Disco's have a proper recovery loop/ring up front which is solidly bolted thru the front left hand chassis rail (where the bumper attaches). I got another one ($16 at a wrecking yard) and mounted it on the RHS. I use this also as an attachment point via a short bit of chain and D shackles for my Hi-Lift jack. The rear is not so simple and I am looking for ideas please for some sort of attachments for the Hi-Lift each side at the rear. I've got the 2" rear hitch which is fine for recovery but a bit dangerous for Hi-Lifting. I've only got a standard rear bumper which is useless for the Hi-Lift bumper lift kit.

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 10:02 am: Edit

Will the terrain masters recovery/jack points still mount OK with the factory brush bar. Also, isn't this part of their skid plate as well?

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 11:38 am: Edit

Here's what Mike Freeman over a Terrain Master sent me - I'm interested in those two front jackpoints/skid plate. The jackpoints also serve as SOLID mounting points for their skidplate. There is a recovery ring built into the jackpoint system, too.

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 11:41 am: Edit

here's another photo from TM's Disco:

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 11:42 am: Edit

and finally, one more:

By SmokinBro on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 11:50 am: Edit

Similar question, does anyone know if the TM jackpoint system will fit with a factory front bumper / brush guard?

By SmokinBro on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 11:56 am: Edit

Sorry - checked the TM website - the Jackpoint fits with a factory bumper with minor modifications to skirt.

By Robbie on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 12:49 pm: Edit

The TM jackpoint system will fit with the factory front bumper/brush guard, BUT the snatch holes in the Jackpoints are actually covered by the brush guard. So, to use the actually snatch points, you would have to drill some substantial holes through your brushguard. I have them on mine, but have not drilled the holes yet, or I may just remove the brushguard, haven't figured it out yet. Someday I'll take some pix. I also had some problems getting the larger size bolts that come with the TM stuff through the factory holes. I had to drill the holes out a little larger with a dremel.

Robbie

By SmokinBro on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 12:49 pm: Edit

BlueGill - i was looking at your photos page. It looks like you have a factory bumper, less the plastic air dam. Factory brush guard as well?

What have you been using for front recovery?

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 01:00 pm: Edit

Not trying to offend anyone with brush guards, but the only real use I have seen for them is to increase damage caused by otherwise relatively minor impact. Especially when they turn a fender bender into sheet metal damage, broken head lights, and damaged grills as they rotate backwards into your truck.

But they do provide a nice point to mount your lights...

By DentedDisco on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 01:19 pm: Edit

TM steering guards are crap ,if you look at a rock they bend. DONT buy them there much to thin @ 6mm they need to be at least 10mm (TM trying to save money).
Look at southdown instead much better and up to the job.

By SmokinBro on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Robbie

Did you get the jackpoints to mount a steering protector, or for front recovery. How long to install, and most importantly, are you pleased. I.e. if you had to do it all over again - would you?

By Gil Stevens (Gil) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 01:47 pm: Edit

aggred with mrbeiler, the stock brush bar is really a visual accessory. I had one for a while, and I found it hindered more than it helped. It decreases your approach angle and it really isnt suitable for a recovery point as it comes stock, I have seen them modified into very substanial points though. I went thru two of them before realizing it was not neccessary. For the record I bent both of them, one on the bar itself in front of the headlights, the other on the mounting supprts things underneath, you can kinda tell in this pic how bad the thing fit....just my .$02

By Jon Williams (Jonw) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 01:58 pm: Edit

Yeah that's when you grab that little bar that sticks out front and pull up on it as hard as you can until it's fitting level, then tighten the heck out of the bolts. In my case, I replaced the stock bolts with some better-fitting Grade 8 bolts and torqued them sufficiently that I can now use my brush bar loops as front recovery points. I pulled and tugged at it testing the new bolts with a diesel Ford Super Duty and fortunately it didn't rotate up any. So I figure if 500 ft-lbs of torque pulling on it won't rotate it on the bolts I put in, not much will. Just my experience...

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 01:58 pm: Edit

SmokinBro, here's what I presently use for front and rear recovery...Ideally, I use both points on the stock front brush bar, and haven't had a problem with it moving on it's mounts (keep those mounting bolts tight!). I have been in situations where I was only able to use one recov ring, and no problems there either. I now use the hitch receiver for rear recovery, but I used to use those two rings on either side of the fuel tank. I had no problems with those rings, just have keep the bolts tight, too. All my recovery has been with a chain, too. Slow and steady and no problems encountered. If I go with TM front recov points/skid plate, it will be in association with a whole new steel bumper system, so the stock brush bar getting in the way won't be an issue. That brush bar is pretty weak - I don't know if you can tell or not, but mine has been re-welded and repainted a few times. Now I need to re-weld on the passenger side at the point where the tubes that wrap around the light meet the "A" frame. This thing will be in the trash when I'm done with it.

By Robbie on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 02:18 pm: Edit

SmokinBro,

I bought the Jackpoints for front recovery and hi-lift jacking points. I'm not ready to buy their steering protector yet, but I may down the road (thank you for your comments DentedDisco, but I have dealt with TM and their customer service is astounding and will deal with the sturdiness of their steering protector when/if the time comes). The comments from other's about the sturdiness of the brushguard is pretty much on, which is why I think I will just cut out the holes in my brushguard so that I can use the TM snatch points (I like the cool-looks factor ). This way, when/if I go to a real front bumper in the future I may just be able to sell it all as a package to someone else just beginning. It was an easy enough install, except for the drilling out of the factory holes, PITA. Also, have to remove the front plastic piece that covers your bumper that you attach your license plate too (not just the air dam). Honestly, not sure if I would do it again. I ordered them cause I was ordering some shocks and their rear Hi-Lift mount at the time, so figured to just throw those in as well. I have not had to put them to the real test yet, so that will be when I know if it was worth it or not. If you are just looking for some front recovery points, might wanna look at just getting some Jate rings. Sorry, way too long a post.

Robbie

By Roverine on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 03:19 pm: Edit

Boy, I'm glad to see your comments, all! Went to a LR "Wheels" event last week to test out the new Disco II (a little more). Knowing me and my luck, my first concern for additional equipment, was recovery points and gear. When I got out and really took a hard look at the LR brush bar on the stock bumper, (with fog lights getting in the way underneath to boot!) I felt so ... foolish. The brush bar was already bent up against my right fender, and this was just from the first run! (My husband stood on it and bent it back into place a bit when I got home) As far as recovery points, just looking at it, I wasn't too thrilled about the prospect of using those 2 rings on the brush bar (brush bar is already missing a bolt as well).

In my dreams, I would also get a locking center diff (I am so stupid, for some reason, I assumed it had a locking center diff when we bought it). In reality, I wanted to first look into a good pair of rock sliders, but all I could think about on the way home was my new "Barbie" brush bar on the stock bumper. Oh well. Does anyone know if "Miracle Grow" will work on a (sparse, picked clean) money tree? Thanks to all of you for these comments, I'm learning a lot. Have a good weekend

Kim
'01 Disco II SE7 (no ACE)

By SmokinBro on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 04:34 pm: Edit

Thanks all of you for contributing your photos and writeups. Long and detailed is good. I'd rather read long opinions than spend a weekend fixing the front end of the truck!!!
Those jackpoints sound pretty good until such time as I can afford a new bumper (or after I wreck it!).

Blue - you think your brush bar is damaged - wait 'till I post my photos!

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Rover Accessories has a handfull of used (with new bolts and lock nuts) JATE/Lifting Rings for abut $30. As new ones are $50+, it's a decent price. They are used, but not damaged. Just dirty from hanging off peoples bumpers.

Just got back from there picking up some new toys and saw them.

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 06:32 pm: Edit

"(My husband stood on it and bent it back into place a bit when I got home)"

=> I think the fact that your husband could bend it back into shape by standing on it pretty much sums up why I feel the way I do about brush bars! Hope the fender wasn't damaged. Of course once you do a little (or a lot!) damage and "christen" the truck, things tend to get easier.

Keep having fun! Off tomorrow morning to get ours dirty.

Jeff

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 06:53 pm: Edit

anyone have any pictures of the JATE/lifting rings? I have no idea what you all are talking about...thanks

By Chris Merritt (Smokinbro) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 07:12 pm: Edit

How about this one?

/jatering1{jatering1}

By Chris Merritt (Smokinbro) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 07:13 pm: Edit

again

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 08:36 pm: Edit

excellent - thanks

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Friday, June 08, 2001 - 09:48 pm: Edit

The are the width of the frame rail. You can put two up front and use two to replace the transit tie downs in the rear. It's a LR military accessory. I am not aware of any dealers stocking them, but it is a genuine LR part.

By Jake V. on Saturday, June 09, 2001 - 02:17 am: Edit

That's exactly what I need. Does anyone know where to get these.

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Saturday, June 09, 2001 - 07:19 am: Edit

www.roveraccessories.com. ask for Charles and tell him you want "lifting rings".

learning to type with one hand at 4am holding my new son! ;-).......

jeff

By Gil Stevens (Gil) on Saturday, June 09, 2001 - 09:48 am: Edit

congrats Jeff...did you introduce him to the Rover yet?...

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Saturday, June 09, 2001 - 10:03 am: Edit

Thanks!

He (Cameron) seems to like going for car rides. Falls asleep everytime. I can't wait for the doctor and his mom to give me to OK to take him off road. The doctor said in about 6 months his neck muscles will be sufficiently developed to go out. I'm looking forward to having a navigator with me on the trips.

Now it's just 18 more years of sleepless nights... ;-)

By Chris Merritt (Smokinbro) on Saturday, June 09, 2001 - 11:51 am: Edit

and 30 years of him in your home!

By Wesley on Saturday, June 09, 2001 - 04:54 pm: Edit

What does one put up front with a stock bumper, LR brush guard and a front skid plate? It looks like the Terrain Master jackpoints and the LR lifting rings would not work with the skid plate in place. I do not yet have a skid plate, but will probably build one soon. Just fishing for more ideas. Do tow hooks work on these vehicles and if so where are they mounted?
Thanks
Wesley

By Alex on Sunday, June 10, 2001 - 04:23 pm: Edit

I have some David Bowyer Jackmates FS. Look in the for sale section on this board. I used these front towloops for over a year, w/no problems. Many hard pulls and off anlge pulls also. Work great.

By Roverine on Sunday, June 10, 2001 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Thanks, and keep the info flowing ... I'm trying to soak it all up! My main concern above everything is always recovery, and "damage proofing" a vehicle. I swear, if I could, I would probably tow a trailer with enough equipment to rebuild the whole thing (I wouldn't mind an ambulance and security guards, along with a mechanic following either). I guess it's probably because of past experiences ... like when I was 7 1/2 months pregnant, and we had to be towed 30 miles offroad, breaking 2 tow lines, to find the nearest (land line) telephone ... (I know, I know, what the h#!! was I doing out there in that condition in the first place???).

So. What do you guys recommend, in order(?), for enough reenforcement/mods for moderate offroad use (i.e. no "Heart Attack Hill" or "The Squeeze" for me if I can help it, but there are always obstacles ...) I'm ambivalent about my stock front bumper, (with "Barbie" LR brush bar). That aside, what next? Rock sliders, then shocks & springs? (Already replaced the tires.) Just trying to lay out a game plan for future ...

Jeff, congratulations on your new son! You will probably need a trailer now too, to bring all the baby gear on trips (hee hee - been there, done that!).

Kim

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Sunday, June 10, 2001 - 09:02 pm: Edit

At the risk of jumping in with both feet and the fact that this is an opinion and worth only as much as you want it to, here's my thoughts on your "Rover Armor":

1) Springs, shocks, and damper -> get your truck a little further away from the ground which will reach up and smite you when you are not looking. It will also allow for a bit more tire later.

2) Ditch the barbie bumper, dump the air dam, and get two proper recovery points up front. It will also do wonders for your approach angle.

3) Get a hitch shackle for rear recovery, or get two more JATE rings. You can get used rings for $25~$30 or new for $50. The receiver shackle will run about $35. Either is OK, but if you get the two rings, you can leave the hitch open for the chrome boat propeller... ;-)

4) Make sure you've got good recovery gear and tools properly secured in the back. Otherwise, all those recovery points become poser gear.

5) Get rock sliders. Now you've got sill protection and points you can actually use to hi-lift the truck in need be. Some people try to use the rear hitch, but give it a shot at home in your driveway and tell me how stable you think it is.

6) Front dif guard and relocate the steering damper. After smacking my front dif once in Big Bear, it was an easy decision. It's a long, slow, noisy, and expensive ride home when you put a tennis ball hole your dif.

Above and beyond that, the sky is the limit. How fast do you want to go? How much do you want to spend? We could spend your money all day here...

Thanks for the comments on our son. I am very very happy.

Jeff

By Roverine on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 03:00 am: Edit

Jeff,

First of all .. getting much sleep or does the little guy keep waking you up asking when is the first offroad trip?

Thanks for your thoughts. We are already considering shocks/springs.

"Springs, shocks and damper" ... Question 1: Are you referring to a steering damper?

Questions 2 and 3: "Front dif guard and relocate the steering damper." Relocate the steering damp to where, how difficult and is it necessary? Which front diff. guard do you have/recommend?

Rock sliders ... looking at those too and reading the associated thread on this message board -- great info. Completely agree with stability, or lack of, in jacking from rear hitch post.

"Barbie" bumper ... I am considering removing the stock front bumper and LR brush bar and replacing with ARB bull bar(?) -- tougher, better approach, etc. (Now my problem is where can we sell stock bumper/brushbar once removed? eBay?) BTW ... what are those foglights useful for? Not being facecious, just wondering how useful they are since I've never had to use them (here in So. Cal. and Southwest). Are they worth saving for the trip up the Calif. coast/Oregon or mountain travel with low clouds?

Already planning on getting receiver shackle.

Once again, thanks for your thoughts. Sorry all for these questions ... maybe I should start a new thread.

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 07:58 am: Edit

No sleep yet. I hear that comes later. In say 18 years...

Yes, I was refering to the steering damper. On the Defender and DII, the damper is above and in front of the front axle. On the D1, it is behind and just at the bottom of the axle. You have two choices. One is to replace the original and keep it in it's current location. Two is to get a relcation kit (a few are out there), and mount it in same location as the Defender/DII. This will mean you will buy a Defender damper (different mounting style), but it costs the same. It keeps the damper just a bit further out of the way. Installation was a snap. My original damper was pretty banged up and we off road in similar areas (SoCal). I purchased the Mantec dif guard, but there are others out there that are also popular. My dif was getting scared too, so it made sense.

I'm sure you could unload the bumper here if not on eBay. Foglights can be nice at times, but you have to mount them low to be useful. In the past, I've been able to tuck them into ARB bumpers on other trucks so that they are safe. The LR ones are too large for that. Hanging down, they're just one more thing to get snagged on during your approach.

By Roverine on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 12:24 pm: Edit

Jeff,
Sorry, I'm a little confused regarding the steering damper thing again; We have an '01 Disco II SE7 ... (DII?). Should we still replace and/or relocate it?

Thanks again for your comments. Oh, and as far as sleep, hopefully you'll be getting more within several months, but that will start to change again from, uh, about 15 yrs. on up 'til ???? ;-)

Kim

By John C. on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 12:48 pm: Edit

Excuse me for budding in, but from what Mr. Bieler said the DII has the damper in front of the axle like the D90s, so you don't have to worry about the damper....

I've never been able to sleep them same since my daughters were born 11 and 9 years ago.....get used to it!

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 02:28 pm: Edit

Thanks John.

Kim, I didn't know you had a DII. In that case, I'd probably throw in a new damper when you do shocks and springs. On your DII, it's up and out of the way already (where I have now moved mine to) so that concern is taken care of.

Also, on the plus side, with the DII, you have more tire size choices to make before and after your lift.

As far as sliders go, I like the Rock Ware and have also seen the new ones from Rover Accessories in Redondo Beach (close enough that you could pick them up and save a LOT on shipping). The new Rover Accessories ones look very very good. Those are the next item on my list.

Jeff

By Roverine on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 03:09 pm: Edit

Thanks. I'll be printing this page out later for future reference. Also, what do you think about Rovertym sliders? (I was looking at them in the tech section here).

Kim

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 05:46 pm: Edit

Rovertym... Duh... That's what I meant. I don't know why I mentioned Rock Ware. I've never seen their product. Anyway, I like the Rovertym alot. I saw their bars on a D1 earlier this year. The problem was the extra $200 for shipping.

By John on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Shipping has never been above $125...in the Continental US

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Really? When I emailed back in March, I was told to expect about $200....

By Roverine on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Thanks for the input, guys!

Jeff, no problem ... Hey, I don't even have an infant (anymore) & sleep deprivation to fall back on for my (unfortunately increasing) mistakes. I still blame brain damage on the kids though.

Kim