By RVR OVR (Tom) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Hey,

I am debating the purchase of a second truck for the stable as baby is on the way and the little Mitsubishi 2 door is not an ideal hauler for wife & kid.

Anyway, don't attack me here, but I am thinking of a used Dodge Dakota or Yukon/Tahoe. The reason behind this is because of their size, towing capacity, and cost (i'd like to stay about 15-18K). This way, I can trailer queen the Disco for long trips. Another LR would be nice, but the towing capacity and size just doesn't match these two trucks.

Anyone have experience, comments, or links to other web sites for these? OR, have some good input on why a LR would romp these trucks for my needs?

Thanks,

Tom "Hoping I don't get kicked off the board" Pearson

By Jeff on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Tom

Look at the latest edition of FourWheeler magazine. They have a review on Tahoes for towing.

On my personal experience of driving Suburbans for many years they are really nice. I would like to get one once the family starts to expand.

By Ron on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 03:10 pm: Edit

I absolutely loved the 98 suburban I got to drive in college. The thing never missed a beat at all. It has like 90k on it now and the extent of the problems we have had, get ready for this, a blown dif gasket! And it was only a minor leak (something I would ignore on a rover). Nothing else has gone wrong. Got about 18mpg (on a 40 gallon tank) running of 87. 5.7Liter vortec and 3.42 granny gears pulled my Series on a trailer doing like 80+ up hills. Sucked offroad but as a rover dragger and people mover it kicked butt. best part was I could get drive from Buffalo to south west Virgina without stopping at all, even with the rover in tow. A yukon or tahoe would be the same Make sure to get a 96 or later as the 95s had 50 less hp.

Ron

By Matt Milbrandt (95discovery) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 04:00 pm: Edit

I have a lot of experience towing with a Chevy Tahoe. The guy I work for uses it to tow antique and classic cars around town and on long trips, it has always done the job well. It is very comfortable even on long trips towing a 30' closed trailer and a 5000lb car in it.

By JA on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 04:09 pm: Edit

Chevrolet. They tow. They Last. They have Distributor-less ignition. They're highly engineered. If you'll ever be lugging Appliances/Mulch/firewood, etc. Go with the pickup. Otherwise, the interior - lockable - spaciousness for vaca driving with 4 people is great in the Tahoe/Suburban.
Best vehicles to own in my book are
1. Rover
2. Chevy (to pull - truck or SUV)
3. Triumph/MG/Mercedez classic 2 seat convertible.
good luck

By Ross on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 04:14 pm: Edit

I'd concur with the Suburban advice. We owned a 97 Tahoe for a short time and loved it but pulling our 22' boat was interesting. The Tahoe wheelbase isn't ideal for that kind of towing. My parents Suburban on the other hand was a dream to pull with. You also get that extra capacity without much if any gas mileage difference. The market for Suburbans here is also substantially softer so you can get a newer/nicer Suburban for much less than a Tahoe/Yukon.

If you want another Disco cheap email me I've got two 97's for sale in your price range.

By John on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 04:16 pm: Edit

I have a 88 chevy pickup...220000 miles and the valve covers have never been off...It is still used as my hunting, fishing, towing and work truck....cant beat them...

By Gabe Isham (Jet992000) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 04:41 pm: Edit

Excursion with a diesel is the way to go in my book.Awesome gas milege and huge interior,much bigger than the suburban and they ride like a caddy

By Ron on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 04:45 pm: Edit

15-18k

Ron

By Ron on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 04:48 pm: Edit

And the slushbox eats s**t at 70-80k

Ron

Found On Road Dead (but the engine still runs cause its a binder!)

By MA on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 04:49 pm: Edit

go to www.autotrader.com and look around there

By Gabe Isham (Jet992000) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 05:28 pm: Edit

Well gentlemen you better learn to like ford because if you buy a new rover it is a ford since they own Land Rover now

By Ron on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 05:33 pm: Edit

It still has a buick engine. And a german tranny. Woe be the day ford influence comes to bear (unless I can get one with a powerstroke diesel).

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Excursion beats em all hands down. Yes it has trans problems , but , all the other makes have them as well. Plan on replacing the trans at some point if you do any amount of towing. The Dodge has to be on the bottom of the list. I have seen them all from underneath at some time or another....

Kyle

By Ron on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 06:13 pm: Edit

Excursion beats em all hands down. Yes it has trans problems , but , all the
other makes have them as well.

Hogwash! The 4L80-E or whatever is a great tranny in the sub. Plus if you are comparing apples to apples here then you have to compare a 7.3diesel excursion to a HD chevy with the duramax and the allison. Come on. They put that tranny in medium duty trucks. ford will not extend a superduty or excursion warenttee past 75k, why? Because they know that the tranny will go. GM makes way better stuff. The previous sub we had went 180k, 20k of it dragging a 7000lbs trailer. Original 454 original TH400 still ran great and its not like it got babied. wish I had the bucks to buy a 2002 with the 8.1 vortec, could probably tow three rovers with it.

Ron

By Tranny Tim on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 06:17 pm: Edit

who, beside Hyundai, warranties a tranny past 75k? does a hyundai even have a transmission, or just guinnea pigs with longer/shorter legs?

By Ron on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Well you can buy an extended warantee (which is what we are talking about) on most cars out to 100,000 miles.

Ron

By Lynden on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 08:12 pm: Edit

I feel I need to jump in here. I'm a diehard Ford man (that's why I can now in good faith purchase a Rover) and must say Ford has much better motors than GM. Sure the new GM diesel is nice, but where the hell were they for the last 7 years while the powerstroke has kicked ass on the whole market? Another example is the 87-95 era. Chevy couldn't even figure out port injection. Ford beats chevy to the punch w/ every engine design. Mark my words, in 5 years GM will finally realize the DOHC motors are better and start putting them in trucks. Ford innovates Chevy follows.
Lynden

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Monday, June 11, 2001 - 08:14 pm: Edit

Ron , I hate to break it to you but thats bullshit. The GMs are pretty worthless when compared to everything else in its class. And dont even begin to compare them to Fords. I worked in a trans shop for a few years doing electronics and all of them came through. Nothing is exempt. THe birth of the lock up converter is what brought most on. Has GM even got a motor that competes yet? Last time I paid any attention the 502 was about the best you could get as far as power but they have no mileage whatsoever.I know they dont have a Diesel that even worth talking about.As far as that big assedheavy allison bus trans , yeah , they are pretty tough but , yeah , they came through fried as well..

Kyle

By Ron L on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 02:24 am: Edit

Just Traded My 99 5.4 F-150 4X4 for a 2000 Series II Disco. I used to race cars, sold my 1/4 mile mustang and all the toys including my 28 ft enclosed trailer. I can tell you that I had no problems towing (8800 lbs.) from southern california to many other US cities, the farthest in Pennsylvania and back. Only problem I had was two miles off the showroom floor the rear diff housing was cracked, not a problem, FORD replaced it with a smile. I hate to compare, but my 98 Chevrolet four door Dually cost me an entire season (and 10 grand more) as I could never make it to a race nor could I make it back hauling less weight. I refuse to mention my Dodge....I feel a serious headache coming on.

Ron

By wisker on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 09:47 am: Edit

Just couldn't help myself . . .
"It still has a buick engine. And a german tranny. Woe be the day ford influence comes to bear"
I they put a 5.0 HO from the early/mid '90s in a rover I'll do backflips in my office (and take pictures for Ho to post)
"Ford beats chevy to the punch w/ every engine design. "
I too am a Ford fan, but no one can question the chevy small block.

And like everything else on this thread, these are just my opinions gained from my personal expirience.

wisker

By Ron on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 10:30 am: Edit

I they put a 5.0 HO from the early/mid '90s in a rover I'll do backflips in my
office (and take pictures for Ho to post)

And it will probably have 4 wheel independent suspension too, besides the best we can hope for is the current modular V8, and I would be happy to keep the Buick over that. If GM had bought Rover it might have had a chance, with ford, well

Kyle,
6.6 Duramax Isuzu diesel 300hp, 500+lb/ft of torque thats worth talking about. Especially with the allision 5 speed slushy is behind it. Whatever percieved lead ford had is gone now in HD PUs. Sure in a bus an allison might croak eventually but in a PU, even with heavy towing the thing is set up ideally.

Yes the powerstroke is good and the old chevy diesel sucked but chevy gas engines 96 and later are the best made. Ford dropped the ball with the 5.4 and V10. They made them emmision friendly and it cost them mileage and power. Personal experience tells me chevy trannies do fine and ford superduty slushboxes bite the big one (go ahead talk to ford and see if you can get a 100k warantee on a diesel superduty with a slushbox).

Ron

Oh well back to rovers!

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 11:26 am: Edit

Isuzu???? Oh my , well , I cant say I am familliar with that particular one , but (Yes there is always a but) my run ins with any other engines in "Iscrewsus" werent pleasant.....
Yes the A4ODE wasnt a nice guy in the beginning , infact , he would piss you off pretty quick. As I stated earlier it was mostly due to lock up converter issues. In most cases the converter would slip , the ECU would detect the slip and bump the line pressure up. When the pressure went up it would blow this lock ring out of the case inside and you would stop moving. The updates repaired the internal problem but the converters remained to be an issue. They arent just an issue with Ford. The 4L80E that you mention is really just a 4 speed 400 with electronics and lock up , it suffers the same issues as well. They crippled all the good tranmissins with this crap. If any of them has the slightest electronic missreading or failure you are pretty much screwed. They al have "Limp Home" which is really not some fancy thing incorperated into it. Its just the solonoids natural position. When they are all off the trans is in second gear. I worked on many cadilacs with that trans (Turned sideways) that were plauged with electrical issues...

Kyle

By Ron on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 11:36 am: Edit

"Iscrewsus"

AFAIK it is a beast. Basically an updated version of the big COE isuzu. The only thing against it is it is alloy and I would prefer iron. So it is probably closer to the operating limit that the ford or especially the cummins. In any case there is a general consensus that the cummins is the best as far as durability (look at the size of the bearings and the GVWR of some of the vehicles it is in) but the rest of the dodge is so dated that the engine is the only selling point. Only time will tell. It is way better than the old 6.2/6.5.

I agree that hydraulic is better than electronic.

Ron

By Greg Davis on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 11:59 am: Edit

Tom, I owned a 93 Dakota w/ V8 prior to getting my DSII. I loved it. Put 93K miles on it w/o any major problems. Had tons of torque. I had the Extended cab, but now you can get a four door w/ the new 4.7 V8. Great combo. Good luck.

By Milan on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 11:43 pm: Edit

...but the rest of the dodge is so dated that the engine is the only selling point....

????????????

Ron,

Are you saying a steel ladder frame with coil sprung D60 front and leaf sprung D70 rear, powered by Cummins is bad because it's dated? Shit. If only they built more trucks like that. Additionally, the new Cummins has electronics just like anything else these days. I would much prefer the earlier engine models with mechanical injection on the same platform.

By Steve on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 01:42 am: Edit

I have had a V8 Dakota 4x4 since'93, it now has 120K miles and has not had any problems beyond plugs and oil changes. I tow an equipment trailer with it that grosses out at about 5K lbs. No problem. I wish I could say the same for my Rover.
Steve

By Ron on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 10:58 am: Edit

Are you saying a steel ladder frame with coil sprung D60 front and leaf sprung
D70 rear, powered by Cummins is bad because it's dated? Shit. If only they built
more trucks like that. Additionally, the new Cummins has electronics just like
anything else these days. I would much prefer the earlier engine models with
mechanical injection on the same platform.

Well, its good it you want to lift it and run trails but as a daily driver/rover dragger it is dated. The ride sucks, its got drums in the back and the brakes suck, the interior is cheesey (well they all are). It rattles. Not a problem in a trial type truck but if I am towing and driving it I want some comfort and at least a bit of refinement. And the slushbox sucks so you really end up with a manual if you want all the power. I like old school stuff too but a lot of it depends on what you want to do with it.

Ron

By Jon Williams (Jonw) on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 01:04 pm: Edit

Here's the breakdown of the brands:

Chevy rides smooth. Period. They're ride engineered for that, and that's mostly what sells people on them. This business of "best selling pick-up" mess is statistical marketing. That applies to the last 10 years or so, but doesn't account for the number of Fords with 200,000+ miles still on the road. I've never known a Chevy to last past 100,000 miles on original powertrain, since GM transmissions die around that mileage. But for a smooth-riding truck with plenty of hauling ability that will no doubt give you a mostly trouble-free ownership experience, it's a good pick.

Fords are the only real trucks on the road as far as I'm concerned. It's the truck the majority of contractors and people around my area rely on for years and years to last and work hard. I know of many Ford trucks with well over 150,000 original miles that aren't showing any signs of quitting. They're not the most luxurious vehicles on the market, and they tend to ride like a truck. I happen to like that characteristic, but a lot of people don't. And something must be good about it since Fords outsell GM and Dodge combined, and that's not just my opinion. They are, of course, somewhat more affordable than a comparable Chevy, but it's a real value for the duribility of the product.

Dodges are... well, what can I say, cheap. But think of it this way: you're not getting much of a truck, but it doesn't cost you much either. You can get a loaded Ram for way less than a comparable Silverado. Now, they're not completely horrible. Dodges are just as capable as Fords and Chevys when new. However I've never known one that had an automatic transmission that lasted longer than 3 years. Chrysler just can't make a good transmission. That's all there is to it. But a lot of people love the Ram's styling, and admittedly, it ain't a bad looking truck. Mechanically, though, there shoddy and the quality of materials used is inferior to those used by Chevy and Ford.

Toyota is nothing as far as I'm concerned. People like 'em for some reason, and true, Toyota makes a quality product that pleases a lot of folks. They're just wimpy, though. I don't know anybody with a full-size Toyota pickup, but there's a few people I know that have the little Toy trucks lifted with swamper tires, mostly because they're cheap and don't make you feel guilty beating on them.

The SUVs based on the platforms of the trucks aforementioned basically share the same characteristics as the trucks; Chevys are nicely trimmed and smooth-riding, Fords are rugged but not extremely luxurious, and Dodge's and Toyota's SUVs are similarly-sized to a Disco with comparable towing ability, excepting the Toyota Sequoia, which is a smooth-rider and runs with the Chevy SUVs and the Expedition.

Of course, this is all based on my personal experience and the experience of the poeple I know. But when I look out on the road as I drive along, I notice that it seems to be the preferences and trends of pretty much everybody else out there.

By Ali on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 02:26 pm: Edit

Well this might not apply here but it's worth a mention anyway. I'm working in El Centro, Ca..right next to Mexico/US border. So there are tons of Border Petrol vehicles around. This area has to be one of the most inhospitable area in the US. Right now it's around 105-118 degrees and it'll get warmer. One day at the taco shop I was having lunch with a few of these guys and proceeded to ask some questions about their rigs, suspensions, etc.. Here's what they told me:

The old Broncos were the best and they miss them terribly. They rode nice and held out mechanically.

Expeditions are ergonimically great BUT their lug nut studs break off! Basically, your wheel might pass you by. Also they said they're not pleased with the electronic 4wd shifting mechanism. It tends to stick a lot. I found this to be true while renting an expedition few months ago. I think I've only seen one Expedition around.

Blazer (not Tahoes): The most versatile & dependable rigs around. While their ride is not the most comfortable (like Fords), they're better mechanically. They also like the Subs.

No Dodges or any other makes.

They go through Good Year Wranglers and shocks like toilet paper. Interestingly, one of the blazer had the Bilsteins with remote res on it. The driver was the "supervisor"! I bet they have a beefy A/C system!

Just my .02 cents worth.

By Chris Merritt (Smokinbro) on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 05:13 pm: Edit

Can't say too much about Chevs et al, but I had a Bronco II for years and really liked it except for its tendency to stall when it rained.
Had a toyota 4x4 pickup and put 100,000 very hard miles on it. It was either stop and go city traffic, loaded with a yard of gravel or along logging roads and powerline cuts. In that whole time, i gave it three, (3) oil changes and it wouldn't die. For a truck with 140,000 miles, next to no regular or preventative maintenance it kept going. Got a good trade in for it too.

As for whats most popular, seems to change from east to west and north to south. pacific northwest, tons of toyota and nissan pathfinder.

guess its what ever you like

By MA on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 05:32 pm: Edit

The last generation Chevy/GMC Tahoe/Yukon's are excellent trucks. We recently sold our (first in town)95 GMC Yukon SLT 4x4. It had about 145,000 miles on it. We never had any problems with it(it was regularly serviced). It was the grocery getter,kid "picker upper", boat hauler, week-end get-way-car, etc. The engine(5.7L Vortec V8) is a great,strong and reliable engine and,amazingly, it got better gas mileage then my Disco! It's towing capacity is amazing, you can tow up to 8000lbs easily. Also the interior is cavernous. You can fit 5 adults(and their luggage) in their easily with reasonably good comfort. All the controls are with-in easy reach. The air-conditioning is really powerful. The sound system drained out all the tire noise. The 4x4 system is ok(not nearly as good as LR's). It's good for snowy/icy conditions. The tranny(4-speed auto) shifted smoothly. The truck is really safe too, with ABS, drivers side airbag(1997 and newer had passenger side too),etc. You can't go wrong with buying a last-generation(1995-1999) Tahoe/Yukon. There are several available online for $15-18K.

By AL on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Tom,
8000lbs is alot to tow,
All the rigs mentioned above will have some sort of eng,trans problems.
My experiance with towing is 34'Formula speed boat(9500lbs. wet), 45'cherry pickers,and construction equipment more than 10,000lbs. Personal opinion would be used Ford F450, F550, Dodge with cummins. They never gave me any problems what so ever. You can find them used and run carfax on them to check history.
Good Luck
AL
ps: They all have 5 and 6 spd also

By Milan on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 08:28 pm: Edit

Ron,

I thought the Ram was comfy. My buddy has a Cummins one and I really like it. Mind you I don't go for too much comfort. I just want a good seat and lots of leg room. I don't care much for the "new" vehicle interiors no matter what the make. I like steel dashes wit few analog guages and that's it. I agree on the brake issue. I can't see why we're still seeing drum brakes.

Ali,
I could not agree more on the old Broncos. I still have my 81 and those were considered weaker than the 78-79 versions. We like these better than any Balzer, Jimmy or the new Tahoe/Yukon versions. On the other hand, Dodges seem to be as tough if not tougher. We don't find too many in the junk yards. They're still on the road.