By Marc on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 12:41 pm: Edit

I have a 95 Disco - I want to buy an decent steel wheel/tire combo for off-road use only.

My criteria/considerations are:
1. Used mainly for light to mid-duty off-road. Nothing too serious here as my disco is still stock mostly and not ready for heavy off-road.
2. Will be used off-road only. I plan on loading them up and driving to trail then changing tires etc... I am sticking to stock Michelins for everyday driving.
3. Price is an issue. Gotta get it approved by the wife.
4. Size - I want as large a tire as I can get WITHOUT any trimming. Am somewhat lost as far as sizes/widths of tires and wheels. I have read the tech section, but still kinda bewildered. As you can probably tell, this is my first foray into 4-wheeling.
5. Aesthetics - I prefer the look of the NATO style wheel to that of the wagon-wheel style. I am thinking black wheels with something along the lines of the Traxus in the recent post here.

Some other concerns: What is the best size for off road - wheels and tires? Am I deluding myself when I say I want to keep from trimming and still have an effective off-road setup? I am thinking along the lines of a 2-inch lift eventually. Probably OME. Also a winch and front bumper in the future. Also sliders and skid plates, but this is all in the future. I was thinkiing wheels and tires first to be able to get out there and start learning the ropes with some light off-roading now.

I appreciate any guidance/suggestions u guys might post. Any links to vendors will be helpfull.

Also, Thanks to the site admin for a great site. This place has been a HUGE help to a new Discovery owner.

Thanks in advance for all your help,
-Marc

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 12:51 pm: Edit

your stock michelins won't blow up if you get them dirty I'd try hitting the trails with stock Michelins (they really are very good all-purpose tires) and then invest $ in new tires after you figure out what you want (and after you upgrade suspension to fit marginally larger tires). If not, then 235/70 it is (maybe 235/75) for any new tires with stock suspension! Also, there's no reason to load up tires and change them when you get there, unless you're traveling hundreds of miles to the trail. Heavier duty tires are street legal (with some exceptions), they are just a little noisy and don't handle quite as well as road tires.

my two cents.

By Ron on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 12:56 pm: Edit

Mark,

I have a suggestion.

Look at Alyssa's tires/wheels. Total outlay was 300. The tires are $75 a piece and the wheels were free (series III steel 15in). No trimming. The tire is about 30in but tucks inside the lip that everyone trims. Great in mud (made D90s running BFG MTs look silly), sucks on rocks. The tires themselves are really tough to hurt (they are bias plys).

www.discoweb.org/alyssa

Yes you are deluding yourself about not trimming and 32in tires look cool and the extra inch under the dif helps a lot. But if you are committed to no trim/no lift SIII steels and 7.00x15s will get you through the mud with the big boys and it will not cost you much.

Ron

By Marc on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 02:33 pm: Edit

Blue Gill & Ron -

Thanks for the quick replies.

Gill - are the stock Michelins really ok for light to Mid-duty off road? They are great for everyday, but the tread doesnt seem very aggressive (however, I am a complete know-nothing in this area). I was also thinking about suspension upgrade first. You say that is the way to go?

Ron - I like the looks of Allysa's setup, but I was thinking a little bigger. Will that be possible with a OME suspension upgrade with 2" lift? ALSO: Where did the FREE wheels come from? Was it some combo deal with the tires or were they free because she knew someone with some spares (obviously, I will not have the same connections). Where can I find those tires at $75 each?

Thanks again.

-Marc

By John Tdi Aust on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 03:50 pm: Edit

Marc.... what about using the vehicle as stock for now and save the $ .... and when you cant get somewhere or do something you want/need to the first time, you'll probably know what to spend the hard earned $ on. These vehicles are very capable straight off the showroom floor for many things. You might be surprised what a stock vehicle in good hands can do. If it is form rather than function that interests you then that is another matter.

John

By Marc on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 04:13 pm: Edit

John,

Really my biggest concern is acheiveing a good balance between everyday driveabilty and adequate off-road capability. I doubt that I will ever be a hardcore off-roader (no big rock climbing type stuff). However, I would like to be able to go down most any trail I like without fear of serious damage and also I want the ability to extract myself from any kind of fix I might get into. I don't want to go to extremes with the lift/tires etc. I might like my disco slightly higher and I do like the aesthtics of an ARB type bar, but I think it can be taken too far, especially if the goal is to have an everyday driver.

Pof my problem may be that I don't fully realize the capabilty of my stock disco. I am new to off-roading, and am hesitant to get into a situation I can't recover myself from. I have no idea what I would do if I got stuck out in the middle of nowhere without capabilty to extract myself. I guess I will learn this as I go... Just trying to be prepered when the time comes.

Thanks for your input.
-Marc

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Marc:

One of the best pieces of off road equipment you can bring with you, is another Rover, especially if you are a novice. Are there any clubs in your area?

If not, and you are heading out by yourself, I would leave the Disco stock for the time being, and invest in some recovery equipment, such as straps, high lift, and so on. That way you can get a feel for how your Disco handles stock, and you will have a better idea of which mods will be right for you. Just my $0.02..

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 04:28 pm: Edit

Ditto Axel's comments. Especially if you're new.

Contact a local dealer. Many sponsor off road excursions regularly. That's a good way to hit the dirt with people familiar with your truck. If that's not an option, check out the local off road groups in your area.

By Mike B. on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 05:51 pm: Edit

Triple Ditto!

The minimum number of vehicles that I would go off-roading with is three; especially if the terrain is unfamaliar (Man, I miss spell check!). I would also make sure that at least two of the people know the area and are experienced.

I've seen a dozen cases (at least) of where it takes two vehicles to recover a single stuck one. I've also seen it happen where one vehicle gets stuck while trying to recover another.

Also someone who knows how to wheel in one location will not necessarily know all areas. For example, I know how to wheel here in Florida, but I don't have a clue what to do out west.

Also, a winch is not the be-all end-all in recovery equipment. If you don't have anything to hook it to, it is useless. Also, they can'be be used if your vehicle doesn't work. OK, maybe you got a couple of minutes of winch time if your vehicle dies. But after that, then what?

So, this is my long-winded way of saying be careful. It's a lot more dangerous than it looks.

Thanks,
Mike B.

By Jon E. Yermo (Jon) on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 06:35 pm: Edit

Ron,

This is the first time I've considered the 15" set up. I realllly like the idea of diminished cost of running tires based on 15" instead of 16" wheels. Not to mention the kung-fu Merlin Perkins yellow paintjob. I suppose if I got a set, I could get them painted in Coniston Green?

Do the 15" wheels affect the accuracy of the speedo much? I used to run 31/10.50/15 Remington Wide Brutes at about $80 each, with great success (not on a LR).

Do you know if the tires she indicated are available everywhere or were they ordered by mail / Internet?

The more time I spend here, the more very good information I get!

Cheers

Jon

By Ron on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 03:57 am: Edit

The tires are power king super traction bias plys in 7.00x15. They are NLA but mastercraft under courser and Cooper Super traction bias ply are basically identical and are available in the 7.00x15 size (if you can't find them post and I will find the websites). They were $75-85 when I called around when shopping. I was trying to get the coopers but they did not come in so the Power kings were bought as they were in stock. The wheels are off of an US SIIa/SIII circa 1967-1974. There is no demand as everyone wants 16incher in the series crowd. I have gotton 2 sets free. You just have to look and ask. To be fair maybe pay $10 a wheel. The wheels are 15x6 and will work with up to a 10.50 tire although I would limit myself to a 9.50. SSR 31x9.50 or TSL 32.9.50 would be ideal. LR sells genuine paint in spray cans so you can paint them to match. Alyssa decided on caterpillar yellow. I like it. Makes sure to clean them very well scuff and use a high quality primer.

Cheers
Ron

By Ron on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 03:59 am: Edit

The wheels and tires make the speedo more accurate as they are about +1in from stock.

Ron

By Ron on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 04:00 am: Edit

Oh and the turing radius you can crack the stops all the way in. So it is better than stock.

Cheers
Ron

By Ron on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 04:02 am: Edit

Ron - I like the looks of Allysa's setup, but I was thinking a little bigger. Will
that be possible with a OME suspension upgrade with 2" lift?

No if you go any wider or taller you will have to trim a little.

Ron

By James S. (Shack) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 06:19 am: Edit

Marc,

I wheeled with my stock Disco (stock tires) for over a year. Save your money, One of the best things you could do to get more places when stock is either remove the rear swaybar, or invest in some quick disconnects. My stock Disco would go places my modified 4Runner had problems with.

Also, join a club. Wheeling is more fun with friends, expecially when you are stuck!

Cheers,

James

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 06:22 am: Edit

Marc, ditto that - I ran my stock Michelins until one finally ripped on the rocks (at the end of its tread life). You'll be surpised where a "showroom floor" Disco will take you.

Ron - thanks for the tip on the SIIa/SIII steelies...

By Ron on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 06:29 am: Edit

I would like to add as well that you can go far on stock michelins as well. And joining a club is a great idea. You get help and you get to see and try out stuff before you decide what to get.

Cheers
Ron

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 06:33 am: Edit

Marc,

I agree with all on the stock setup as long as you keep in mind that you will NEVER "be able to go down most any trail I like without fear of serious damage". Even the most modified rigs can get broken, sometimes you have to pick the easy route.

The stock Disco is good off road. Modified it is better. Same with any other truck. Remember that it is a series of tradeoffs and subjective issues are heavily at play. My Disco would be considered by some from pictures of it to be "too modified". However, I drive 80 miles a day round trip to work and it provides a very comfortable and safe ride, as I went to lengths to keep my sway bars on and connected, and I have 2 sets of wheels.

Ever see one of those "hybrid" bicycles that are sort of half mountain bike half 10 speed? Think of how much you would like that on the trail, and draw some parallels with your truck.

Don't run out and buy a bunch of stuff before you spend some more time behind the wheel. Also, remember that people on a budget usually buy things twice. You are not necessarily on a money budget, but an acceptance of change budget. You may end up deciding that stock-sized or skinny mud tires are just not going to do it for you, then you will have to buy the same equipment twice.

Tom

By Ron on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 07:22 am: Edit

Skinny tires work best around here. You could not pay me to have anything with an aspect ratio lower than 85. 7.50x16 34x9.50 35x10.50 P78 Q78, these are the tires I prefer. The 33x12.50 and 35x12.50 and wider are all rockcrawler and posseur tires from my perspective. For true mud traction most competitors in trophy style events (malaysian rainforest challenege type stuff) use 34 or 35 x 10.50 or narrower. And the treads they use are extremely aggressive like the simex and silverstone "laplander" tires. Anyway, off my soapbox for today. If you drive in sand or rock please ignore me.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 07:49 am: Edit

Again I say , clubs are for baby seals !!..... Get together with some guys from here. Atleast you know what you are getting into then as far as what they know and what they dont....

Kyle

By Ron on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 07:59 am: Edit

clubs are for baby seals

hehehe, all depends though, as I always say:

There will always be idiots

Some of them will be in clubs. All and all it definately helps, especailly when starting out.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 08:07 am: Edit

Yeah , it can help , and , it can hurt , allot. Remember its not just the good these boys pick up there , its the bad as well. Its far better to hook up with some guys you meet here. Meeting people from here also doesnt cost you anything...

Kyle

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 08:07 am: Edit

intersting to think of the origin of the word idiot: Ancient Greeks were big on the idea that "civilians" were active members of the "polis", or state. If you were lucky enough to be considered a civilian, then, by definition, you took an active part in the polis, or politics of the state. If someone was stupid enough to not care about the politics that affected him, then he was an outcast, or "idiot".

So idiots don't join clubs or groups (brought together by the DiscoWeb, dealer club, local club, etc). Idiots are the guys who are stuck in the mud solo.

By Ron on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 08:13 am: Edit

Yeah , it can help , and , it can hurt , allot. Remember its not just the good
these boys pick up there , its the bad as well. Its far better to hook up with
some guys you meet here. Meeting people from here also doesnt cost you
anything...

I guess it depends on the people involved. Bad can come from here too. $20 a year for membership is cheap and far outweighed by the help people will give and the opportunities you have (trips on private land for one). If you don't know anyone a club is a good place to start. And with everything there are good and bad people in the same group, nothing says you have to do what other people in your "club" do you make your own decisions, a club just gives you more opportunity and more people to interact with. Some of the most knowledgeable rover people don't know how to use a computer, but are probably in the local club.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 08:41 am: Edit

I have seen some morons but I have to say that when I have seen club events it was the largest concentration of them in one place ever. The problem is that there always seems to be a lead moron and everyone is following his lead. They dont know any better so they just follow along. here you can see someones history and get a good feel for what they may or may not know before you get out in the woods with them. The actual precentage of people out there that know what they are doing and can get you and them and everyone else on the trip out of a jam is very very low. Thre are a shit load of pousers though...

Kyle

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 08:53 am: Edit

Going with any body (club or from here) is much better then going alone.. Example, I went to Petters Mill in VA which is a very easy trail by myself and luckly nothing happened and I got to one point that I couldn't go any further so I backed off and turned around. Turning around wasn't fun but, nothing happened and I went home. Well if I was with some one else they could have reminded me that putting my foot on the brake would help keep my wheels from spinning and I may have been able to keep going forward. Plus, I wouldn't have given up so easy as I would have some one there to help if I got stuck.. Any way to my point.. A group of people went about two weeks after I did and there was ice on the one part of the trail that I turned around on.. The guy (Jeep Grand C) started slipping in the same place that I had and the worst happend. He started sliding down the trail on the ice and went side ways. His Jeep then got traction and rolled over onto it's side.. Luckly no one was hurt and he didn't keep rolling down the trail or off the trail.. If there was no one there he would have been screwed. He could have been really hurt with no way of getting help. Even the really easy trails can be big trouble.. Always best to have some company as you never know when you are going to needed it. Besides it's much more fun to look over at some one after you just drove over some thing that you didn't think you could and say "Did you see that!!"

sorry for writting a book guys

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 09:01 am: Edit

Eric , I dont discourage going with others. It just bothers me that I see plenty of people in clubs that are willing to help you get into jams that they cant get you out of in their wildest dreams.. Thats how terms like "Body damage is probable" come about , that simply means they cant get you through without it. What kind of shit is that? I hate it when I see that.

Kyle

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 09:03 am: Edit

but kyle, when you sign the waiver, all is good.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 09:04 am: Edit

Yeah , no shit.... the waiver...another aspect that I love...they aint even good or use on baby seals...

Kyle

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 09:06 am: Edit

I would have to agree with Kyle on the morons post. I have seen many morons and I don't know what I'm doing either so if I'm thinking that they are morons then that's really got to be bad.. I know that I don't know what I'm doing.. Not even going to try and say that I do. I'm always looking for lessons and guidence though..

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 09:12 am: Edit

so, back to the original question...
marc, you decide yet what you gonna get?
how about start off with sliders for some protection?
and some recovery points like jates ring for the front and tow hitch shackle receiver for the rear?
that shoudl get you started.

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 09:14 am: Edit

Waivers.. The people that I'm going to be going out with have a stack of them.. I haven't been out with them yet but, they seem to help out if you are in trouble.. Of course they probably wouldn't be able to help me too much if I had breakage as they are mostly Jeeps, Fords, International drivers... Hmmmm... What to do what to do.. They helped get the guys Jeep back up right and out to the trail head.. That wasn't their fault that it happened.. Just happened..

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 09:21 am: Edit

Find a buddy that has four wheel drive that will get it dirty.. Good place to start and free too.. I changed my tires first..225/75 r16 Rover RTs (no trimming on stock suspension). Then ordered a recovery Kit (straps, shackles, winch extension, recovery hitch) and a Hi-lift.. Now I have just ordered protection items such as diff gards, gas tank skid and such... Next will be suspension and so on..

By Marc on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 10:41 am: Edit

Guys - thanks for all the input.

I think I will take a lesson and stay stock for awhile, get my feet wet slowly and learn to drive what I have first. Can anyone recomend a good primer on off-road driving? When I say I am new, I mean really new. I grew up in the mountains and have done a little off-road driving, but it has been awhile.

As far as my first investment, I think I will start with some simple recovery equipment (Hi-lift, straps, etc.). Whe I do something with the tires I think I will probably go with as big as I can get without trimming, and steel wheels. I think I like taller rather than wider and for the kind of driving I will do, it sounds like they might be my best bet.

Thanks,

Marc

By Ron on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 10:50 am: Edit

Kyle good point. Never do anything you are not comfortable with. The advise is not so much against a club as it is against listening to other people against your better judgement. Someone here could do the same thing. At some point you have to rely on others if you want get into challenging situations, and when you 1948 SI is on a 40 degree, 150ft rocky slope and you have to back down between two boulders it in nice to have a fellow club member there to spot you and stack rocks for 20minutes in the rain.

Ron

PS baby steps or body damage

the choice is yours
Ron

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 10:51 am: Edit

marc, where do you live?

By glenn on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 11:06 am: Edit

Just my 2 cents (Not that it's worth that much J)

It's been 2 years since I got my disco(99SD) and got introduced to the wonderful world of off-roading. That's also the same time since I stumbled on Discoweb. I remember I was as anxious to get every possible mod I can get as you seem to be - but with budget and wife's approval L being a major factor. I posted the same question and recall Axel and Ho giving the same advice.

Well, it's been 2 years and my truck is pretty much bone stock with exception of a "special vehicles" sticker. I've been to several off-the-road ventures and I think my disco just handled fine. Like blue gill, I plan to use them til the end and then replace them. By then it'll be a more educated purchase armed with the advices and tech discussions from DiscoWeb and more importantly, personal preferences through experience.

By Sean on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 11:57 am: Edit

Marc,

"Can anyone recomend a good primer on off-road driving?"

I don't know if anyone else has, but when I first bought my 97 Disco, I actually read through the owners manual. I believe it contains a decent section on basic off-road driving. (Granted it is not a very large section.) It may answer some basic questions that you have and will definately raise more. Just my 2 rupies.

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Saturday, June 30, 2001 - 05:17 am: Edit

I also read that as well.. The sales guy at the Dealer had also given me some of their video tapes as well like Driving La Ruta Maya and some others that I found helpfull since it put a picture to the stituation and they would tell you what to do and show you the driver doing it.. Best way to learn would be to take some off road driving classes where you have a good instructor with you that knows your truck. I believe that there are a few places like this around. I know Paragon does it, Land Rover has a few places (VT, WV, CO).. I'm sure there are many more.. It is a little expensive but, it is worth it..