By Ryan on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 08:36 am: Edit

Which should be the first thing to go on my Discovery series 1? A really "cool" looking Rovertym 2" lift(the whole enchilada) or a full Detroit in the back with a True Trac up in the front? Either set-up will have some MT/R tires and skidplates. Which is more suitable for minor trail use and can still be a "daily driver?"

By nadim on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 08:38 am: Edit

Lockers are way better...but ultimately, everyone needs a winch, therefore:
1. winch
2. protection
3. lockers and drivetrain
4. suspension
5. brains!

DT/TT and daily driver not great friends...I would prefer you going with ARBs

By E Snyder on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 09:15 am: Edit

I did lift first, then tires, then locker, then winch. The lift allows the tires, but the sexy suspension doesn't do anything for you if you can't get any traction. The single biggest thing I've done to my truck that improved its capability was the Detroit locker. This assumes proper tire tread for whatever job you have at hand. It's not entirely true that everyone needs a winch, because if you wheel with other people, usually someone has one.
My 2 cents.

By nadim on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 09:18 am: Edit

E Snyder

I also went with the suspension first, and tires, protection, and now lockers and winch...but i would have prefered getting the protection, the winch, the locker THEn the great suspension and the tires!

to each his own

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 09:42 am: Edit

No question , lock it up.... that way you kill two birds with one stone.

\
Kyle

By Discosaurus on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:06 am: Edit

Lock-Lock-Lock...
At least in the rear. The front doesn't buy you
a lot more unless the going gets pretty hairy.

A rear locker and a decent set of off-road grip
tires gets you to 75% of the stuff a 'fully setup'
flexy-mobile runs.

BTW - a Detroit in the rear of a daily driver
is FINE. No worries.

keith
discosaurus

By Ryan on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:11 am: Edit

How about dual TT's, would they keep up with the DL/TT combo? No rockcrawling involved.

By Simon on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:13 am: Edit

winch first..

belive me.. I did it all backwards and I paid my mistake many times over...

if I could go back I would do:
1.winch + protection
2.traction enhancers
3.lift + tires
4.it never ends...

Simon

By Discosaurus on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:16 am: Edit

With an autobox and a real good driver, maybe...

With a gearbox, it's awful hard to heel/toe the
brake pedal to keep the TT "locked". Even then,
it's not a full locker.

TT's are one place super-sexy-flexy suspensions
may help keep you going by keeping the wheels all
on the ground. With a full locker, nobody cares
if a wheel comes off the ground (usually).

keith
discosaurus

By Ryan on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:24 am: Edit

So, 2 TT's don't come close to a rear DL?

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:26 am: Edit

Well I don't know if this is the right way or not (probably not) but, I've started doing it in this order. Skid plates, diff gards, steering re-lo and damper. Then when ready RT bumper and winch along with 2" springs (due to the extra weight) at the same time. Then little bit bigger tires (245/75) and RT sliders. Then axles, lockers (ARB), gears (4.10). Then bigger tires 235/85 or 265/75. Then maybe even 2 inch body lift and bigger lift like RTs 3 inch kit. Then who knows. By then I'm sure some thing new will come along. Maybe 4.75 gears and big 35 inch tires and a new engine.

By Leslie on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:26 am: Edit

1 rear DL will always beat a pair of TTs...

-L

Now playing poker....

By Ron on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:28 am: Edit

So, 2 TT's don't come close to a rear DL?

I disagree. I will take the two TTs as long as I am not on rocks or something.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:31 am: Edit

In some stuff Leslie but not all. in mud where you are spinning quite allot to get through the TT is locked up pretty good. Thats 4 paws vs two...

Kyle

By Andy Nix (Andy) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:32 am: Edit

you don't NEED lockers to have a good time, just improve your driving ability. Granted, I would like to lock mine up, but then again, it's expensive isn't it ?

By nadim on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:32 am: Edit

isn't it 4 paws vs 3 kyle...assuming u have the central diff locked...right?

By Leslie on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:35 am: Edit

Haven't done a thing yet to mine, dead stock... but plans are rolling along...

I think John's earlier comment hit the nail on the head: to each his own. It all depends on how YOU use YOUR Disco.

Right now, my tentative order is: front diff-guard, springs, tires, shocks, lite sliders, DL, then a bumper/winch... After that much, then we'll look at relocating the damper and adding more skid plates. After that, I'd be hard-pressed to justify anything else, given that it's already doing okay... IMHO for MY Disco, YMMV, etc. etc...

-L

By Leslie on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:36 am: Edit

Kyle,

With the CDL locked and a DL in the rear, that'd be 3 paws versus 4....

-L

By Leslie on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:37 am: Edit

Doh!

Nadim beat me, I should have kept reading instead of stopping to reply....

-L

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:38 am: Edit

"Minor trail use" -- Please describe. I consider that to be like the stuff that is in the LR off-road instructional video that came with the truck, or stuff that seems to be done on dealer outings (at least my dealers). If that is your intention, I would say neither is really necessary. A clear head and knowing your limits on minor trails is fine with your Disco stock with maybe just getting more aggressive same-sized tires. If you move past the minor stuff, then you will have seen what works where and can make your own choice.

All that aside, on lockers vs. lift you have to ask yourself what your max tire size will be. If you get lockers first before anything else with stock tires, you will probably be opening them up second time. This is because you may decide to go with 265's or 235's or equivalent and want gears.

Personally, I am a fan of lift before lockers because it inherantly provides protection to the truck due to more clearance. It accomidates an upgrade to larger tires if desired, and also allows for the fitting of a winch and winch bumper without making your approach angle worse than stock.

Finally, I think your question leaned a little towards which is more effective. The lockers of course are more effective for traction than slinkier suspension. The benefits provided by The topic of slinky suspension being a help or a hinderance as you know is quite controversial. There are plenty of other threads to read on that topic.

Tom

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:38 am: Edit

Yes , that would be a tripod,,,,, But still less then 4..


Kyle

By Ryan on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:39 am: Edit

If I somehow do end up on rocks with dual TT's, would they act like a open diff? How bad would it be.

By Leslie on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:41 am: Edit

But that'd only count in certain situations...

Overall, the DL will get you further...

IMHO....


Op! Look at the time... Out that door, another office day done....



-L

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:43 am: Edit

TT? as in trutrac? the so called limited slip something? did it say "LIMITED?" hehehe.
indeed limited.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:45 am: Edit

Tom , the stock diffs break , the stock springs and shocks dont. A beginner is harder on these parts so it makes sense in so many ways. His truck is more reliable and its more "Capable". Putting the lockers in will relive stress on the truck while adding some slink will increase it.


Kyle

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:47 am: Edit

Damn , I am thinking about that broken shock thats out the window there,,dammit... Well , its not common that they break..

Kyle

By Ron on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:50 am: Edit

The stock woodys break pretty much daily as far as I have seen. They may not litterally break and fall off but when the stockers were removed at 43k on the disco one had no resistance at all and two more were questionable.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:52 am: Edit

That aint leaving your ass in BFE ,a Broken diff can....


Kyle

By Ron on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:57 am: Edit

No but if you are too thick to figure it out it could be a safety issue. Always good to check these things and saying that they never break is not correct at all. They are POS. How yours have held in there I dunno.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 11:02 am: Edit

And they are still there kicking today.

Kyle

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 11:02 am: Edit

Kyle -- Don't forget to tell the lad about the extra with the lockers -- axles for front and rear and CV's for the front if you do ARB's, from what I hear.

Tom

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 11:09 am: Edit

I dont go for the ARB deal. I think the detroit rear TT front is a sweet reliable setup. Yes you should get the rear axles if you are going with the detroit rear. If you are going dual TTs I personally feel you should still upgrade but others argue. Sure it costs but I dont remember him asking how much. he asked which made more sense... Right?


Kyle

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 11:14 am: Edit

Money matters for most of us, definately does for me until I get me some sugar momma on the side to buy my toys.

Tom

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 11:43 am: Edit

So cost was a problem for you but you didnt ask the question and start the thread,,,,right? So the sexy flexy doesnt really address the known weak points but since its cheaper it the way to go? If we wanna talk whats cheapest,,,,its cheapest to stay home...


Kyle

By John on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 11:57 am: Edit

Would someone define or list the components of a "sexy slinky" suspension adding what susp lift constitutes "slinky height"...excluding the 3 link issue of course.

By Ron on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 12:10 pm: Edit

"The question is when does flexy become slinky."

That was my question.

The best feedback I have is that:

1. When the flex in the rear is substantially greater than that in the front.

2. The amount of drop exceeds usefull levels (when any performance gain is negligible or at the price of potentially "jacking" the rear axle).

Which is why: I continue to look for a happy answer for front flex (have not found one but I have to admit I do kinda like the SG 3 link) and I use retainers rather than cones.

Not to say that cones are bad or don't work but with the combination of 1+2 I asked myself why I wanted to go that way and I came up with wanting the look more than the performance.

Cheers
Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 01:24 pm: Edit

I agree with that Ron. I call it slinky cause that shit is just like a slinky. You hold one end up and let go of half the thing and let it fall. Then you get , boing boing boing. Lower that arm and let the end coil touch the ground slightly and you have simulated the sexy drop kit..


Kyle

By MA on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 01:37 pm: Edit

How will the disco flex if you just get RTE 2" springs? More or less than stock?

By John on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 02:21 pm: Edit

So.....name me specific parts and a specific lift in your opinions.....whats the fine line with "sexy flexy shit parts....excluding 3 link and coil over shocks...drop exceeds usefull levels? another opinion...I can quote instances where i used 3 or 4 wheels on the ground to an advantage because I reached the ground, but that is podium preaching...your desire is a 3 link(or similar) to make a balanced suspension so then its all ok to be flexy? So how long is your shocks gonna be on that desirable "happy answer to front flex" RTE makes sound products that customers ask for, and to brand it "sexy slink shit" to answer your opinions is mildly unwarrenteed. For the moderaters of this website to openly label "slinky shit" for personal tastes is also unprofessional in my opinion. If you have a reputation, wear it...I wear mine proudly.

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 02:35 pm: Edit

You know, this conversation keeps going round and round and round and the end result is still the same....


Ho's truck is still colored "baby shit yellow".

It's just that simple. ;-)

By John on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Youre right Jeff....Im another "outer here"

Actually I told Ho that, but he loves the attention...and he does get attention with a baby shit yellow truck...

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 03:17 pm: Edit

The guy asked which was better to get and the sexy flexy side of the house just stirred bullshit. Someone lay down why the sexy flexy would be better then lockers? Lay it on me...

Kyle

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Can't help you there, Kyle, but I must admit that my un-sexy flexied Disco often leaves me with one wheel in the air...but the locker takes care of that for me, doesn't it?

Lock 'em up & move 'em out...........

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Indeed....

Kyle

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Kyle, man, he didn't ask whether a flexible suspension was BETTER than lockers. I think he wanted to know what to get FIRST.

Lockers are for improved traction, and, IMO suspension mods are for lift and improved balance. If you don't have a wheel hanging in the air your truck won't turn into a teeter-totter. Keeping your tires on the ground also has the side effect of some increased traction, but nowhere near what you get with a locker.

Of course, all good things can be abused. I think springs with very little resistance (i.e. light rate springs such as SG or springs that are not firmly attached to the frame) don't belong on a vehicle that weighs 5000 lbs.

Alex

By MTB on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 06:31 pm: Edit

Ryan
To answer your question.
Go with the suspension, the only reason I say this is you said minor trail use.
1 your truck will handle better(if you are stock now)
2 you will stand out from other Disco's on the road ( you will look cool)
3 you will learn more about what you can do and what you can't do.
4 if you do get stuck with one wheel up in the air or in another position you will learn recovery.
5 if you add winch and bumper your set up forit
6 and most important the winch can get you out of trouble
7 locker are not unstopable then you will say Damn I could sure use a winch.
8 Go to the Tech section click on the FAQ then go to What modification should I do First.
If you would have asked should I get a winch first or lockers first I 'm sure hands down they would say get the Winch.
Good luck on what ever you choose

Michael B

By Anode on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 04:48 am: Edit

Ryan:

If you really want to go off-road and get somewhere, IMHO, do things in this order:

Lock your suspension: it will keep you gong up that trail or through that mud-hole. Your choice of lockers, but I prefer Detroit rear, ARB front.

suspension: get it up in the air a bit, but I you aren't rock climbing don't spend a lot of money on super flexy stuff. A simple (RTE) 2" lift will do best.

tires: selection should follow suspension closely or at the same time if you can afford it. You don't have to spend a fortune, just get a good taller tire that has a suitable tread pattern for the type of terrain you will encounter most often.

winch: now that you have improved the capabilities of your truck, you will find that you may be trying things that will get you stuck as you explore the truck's limits. If you wheel alone, it's time for a winch. Keep in mind that this can be pricey, and will decrease your suspension height a bit.

Of course, I didn't mention the ancillary things you might have to change/upgrade along the way to get this stuff you installed working right. I.E.: rear axles, drive shaft(s), radius arm bushings, a little body trimming, etc, etc. But it's all worth it when you take that big Disco up the trail past some pogue in a j**p, who is wondering what how in the hell you could get up that ledge! Take your time and enjoy your truck, it is a great one without all the mods too!

By gabe on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 04:56 am: Edit

If you're going to use it off-road more often, I've got two words for you: Detroit Rear.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 05:15 am: Edit

Alex , ask Kevin which he would have rather had in Moab , the driveline upgrades or some sexy suspension... Actually , Ask Kristian Myers the same thing,,,Oh , And Sean Arney....

Kyle

By Cowboy on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 05:19 am: Edit

driveline is what gets yah there.....LOCK UM UP!!!!!

By MTB on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 05:24 am: Edit

Kyle
Ryan wants to use it for minor trail use. Would you personally put lockers on or would you upgrade the suspension. I am sure no one would argue that if your going to Moab that you would need lockers. If you would put lockers on first why

Michael B

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 05:54 am: Edit

Well , doesnt actually need to be a full locker , but , some upgrade needs to go in there ,its very obvious to the guys that have had the trucks for some time that some broken axles and atleast a broken rear diff are in your future if you avnt upgraded. I refer to those guys in moab not because of the performance of their trucks (They did well with open diffs) but the repair in the Hotel parking lot that followed . Diffs and axles are a bit costly but they are in your future if you plan on using the truck for any period of time. You may as well get it out of the way early and move on... I suppose the same can be said for springs and shocks and everything else but to me the guy was asking which makes more sense. He stated that he was going to get the protection and the tires and that was a given. Sitting low and having to really think your way around some things might be a pain but it wont leave your ass like a broken diff or axle. People that are new to the sport are also much more prone to diff and axle breakage , they havnt got all the finnesse down yet and we have all seen them use allot of pedal. It just makes sense...


Kyle

Kyle

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 06:00 am: Edit

And signed twice!!


Kyle

By MTB on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 06:36 am: Edit

I understand your point. I quess the question too Ryan would be what does he mean when he says minor trail use. the way I take it is that he is just going to use it on logging roads, grass lanes and some bumps here and there. I know the diffs and axles are not as strong as we would like too see and I am sure you you probably broke the stock d & a's but it seems that it would be overkill to upgrade if you are only going to use it for minor trails. I agree that preventitive replacement is a good thing (that is what I try to sell my better 1\2 on) but it just seems to be overkill.
I am in the same boat what to do without spending to many DSU's But I look at like this I have a set amount of dollars to spend this year. so if I upgrade my suspension put sliders and replace my driveshaft and skids and diff gards.
And I would be playing and my D & A break then I replace them with lockers & HD axles. I know everytime any of us go out with stock D&A's we run the risk SNAP but how common is it if your not running Moab or anything similar. I saw the pics and it looks like your always the one elected to do the dirty work is that why you stongly suggest upgrading your D&A's.
But anyways I'm sure alot have run harder than what I think Ryan is planning on without problems.

Michael B

By Ryan on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 06:51 am: Edit

Minor trail use is like a little rock crawling(nothing big), lots of hills, off-cambered slopes and mud.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 06:54 am: Edit

John I missed your whole damn post there about the podium and all..
Well , how do I start? This thread started with what made more sense to buy. You havnt answered that either. You are just getting ruffled over the slinky stuff like the others that have it. The fact remains that for the most part the fancy drop shit gets you nothing but better ramp numbers and more flex appeal. For most it gets them a ride to events and trails on a trailer. Sure you have gotten up or over something because you had one more wheel touching the ground. Thats your take on the situation. I feel that I made it over a few things by smoking a ciggarette and cursing allot. Some feel they made it because they aired down , some because they didnt. But I cant talk about any of that cause I will be placing myself on a podium? Arent we all stepping up on the podium when we post here? Yes you make things for customers as they request. Maybe if they were better informed they wouldnt request? This site is for those customers to read the good and the bad . If you feel its unprofessional for any of us to share what we know so that someone else may be better informed then thats a damn shame isnt it ? So how should we say it John ? Werent you talking about the constitution yesterday? Better yet , answer the guys question...

Kyle

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 07:12 am: Edit

hey john, i am just glad one vendor is here giving his two cents...

i had a bad experience with the RW and it has tainted my opinion with the whole long travel thing.

i will say that if someone want's long travel then your system will be the most reliable so long as all the upgrades are made (meaning rear arms too) your stuff looks beefy enough to handle it.

i would go so far as to imaginge that whatever you bolt your products to would break before the stuff you made (in an extreem ituation).

rob

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 07:17 am: Edit

I dont think I included Johns stuff when talking failures did I ? In fact , when mentioning his stuff I seem to always have good things to say. It gets dicey when we start talking about drop and flex.Not about breakage as far as Rovertym is concerned , but the need and the benefit. John knows my opinion on that and always has....


Kyle

By gil on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 07:19 am: Edit

i think we all need to remember that all of these posts are peoples OPINIONS..not fact. John likes cones, as do many others, Kyle does not like cones or drop kits,(which is pretty apparent). On the other hand Kyle likes woodheads and most everybody else does not. What does that mean? Kyles opinion is different from Johns which is different from Toms which is different from BlueGills. Thats the beauty of this site, we can all share opinions on what we like and we dont like, on what works in OUR opinion and what does not. In my opinion 100,000 mile woodheads are a bad idea. thats my opinion, not kyles, not johns, not anybody elses. am i wrong? could very well be. i dont think RTE stuff is shit and going to break. i think there are enough people that have very much success with it, but then again, thats my opinion. in my opinion, the guy should do the suspension first, maybe not with cones, but for "minor" trail use (as stated) im not so sure that a detroit/TT would be worth the effort, the money, or the rest of the stuff that needs to with it (HD axles, etc). please dont flame me up like Blues "la pipa" if you dont agree, as this is strictly MY opinion.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 07:27 am: Edit

Get off your podium Gil!! Saying something is good is no different then saying something is bad. Just two sides to the same coin. The only difference is maybe something gets bought , or maybe it dont..


Kyle

By gil on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 07:30 am: Edit

indeed...let me now step down...whos next?

By Anonymous on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 07:36 am: Edit

How is praising RoverTym products not getting on your podium? Is Gil being irresponsible when he says he likes RoverTym products? If not, then how is someone getting on a podium or being irresponsible when he criticizes RoverTym products. As Kyle says, two sides to the same coin.

Everyone is perfectly free to agree or disagree with whatever is written on this board (but always in a respectful manner of course). If someone says something you disagree with, then feel free to disagree and say why you believe that person is wrong. But to answer with something like "get off your podium" or "you're being irresponsible" is nonsense and nonresponsive.

By MTB on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 07:40 am: Edit

Gil
well said.
I have to LOL when I see the new fad in suspensions posted on this board. I remember when SG was the poop. then came BM,RW,OME now RT. I do admit RT's stuff looks tough and that is what I would buy now (without all the flex). When you see those sexy flexies dropping it looks cool. but when you see Kyle's Moab pics he shows everyone that you do not need all of that Cool stuff to get job done. If you have the lockers they will get you over even if the wheel is in the air. If you plan to do major offroading

Michael B

By Parker Garrett (Parker) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 07:43 am: Edit

Kyle,

So then let me get this straight, you're saying that a flexible suspension on the trail is not going to aid in traction and stability? You're telling newbie's that flexy shit is not for trail use? Granted there are some that go for the "ramp champ" look but to say that flexy shit is not for the trail is bull shit. What about balance? Try crawlin' over large boulders and rocks without gobs of travel... can you say "flop".
Ofcourse along with sexy shit you need lockers, a stout drivetrain (or stout beer ) and some driving skills.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 07:48 am: Edit

"Try crawlin' over large boulders and rocks without gobs of travel.."

.Hmmm , parker , I have done that time and time again. I have 3" less travel in the rear now then when it was stock. I also have the rear sway bar. Hmmm , but then again , I also have a detroit. what I was doing was answering the guys question. Thats what I was doing. Look , I am not saying that trying to get back what ya had before the lift is a bad thing. I am just saying that maybe a little too much priority is put on it. There are other things that will yield better results in the long run and lockers are on that list. If the question had of been about what to get first I ofcourse would have been talking recovery shit. But that wasnt the question..... was it?

Kyle

By pk on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 07:50 am: Edit

Gil,

It's true enough that Kyle like Woodheads, swaybars and other things that many don't care for. Many don't share his opinions or see the sense in it. His opinions are not willy-nilly; they have been formulated after years of wheeling in all kinds of rigs, not just a Rover or two (like most of us). Hell, I can't even agree with all of his opinions either and I have a few mods that he scoffs at.

But I have wheeled with him enough to know that, while he doesn't go real fast, he just keeps going and going and going... He is the damn Wheeling Redneck Energizer Bunny!

I can’t question his massive 2.5 inches of drop or his worn out stock shocks or the rock hard tires with 65+ psi… I have seen it all work and have had some trouble keeping up.

By Parker Garrett (Parker) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 07:58 am: Edit

^^^^"Hmmm , parker , I have done that time and time again."

That may be so but how about without the winch engaged? It's a whole different world.

By Ron on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:04 am: Edit

Kyle,

Build some shock spacers, run some longer bump stops and get Ho to get you a set of retainers. It makes it so much better and it won't cause anything to be more likely to break. This way you won't lift a wheel as much. Just try it man. Big improvement, if I am wrong or you break something I will buy you some krispy kremes

Ron

By gil on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:09 am: Edit

pk,
i wasnt trying to dissuade people from listening to kyles opinions. i dont know kyle from a hole in the wall, other than what i read here on this site. he obviously knows what hes talking about, im sure he knows alot more than me. but different strokes for different folks, and to call stuff "shit" because someone does not like it doesnt make sense. i dont like hondas, but they certainly arent "shit"

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:11 am: Edit

Ron,

Anything for me to try. I wanna take the Krispy Kreme challenge, too!

Tom

By pk on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:15 am: Edit

Parker,

Man, look, I am not going to knock some flexy suspension because I have some and I like it. Taken in balanced moderation it is an asset. But it is dangerous for a newbie to jump right into big drop suspension, in my opinion. Kyle is correct to refer to it as a "slinky" it can and will act as a slinky and can slink the rig right over on it's side or worse.

Remember how those slinky walked down stairs when we were kids?

A locker is totally safe for a newbie, will never get outgrown as skill increases, and frankly, adds a hell of a lot more capability than some sexy flexy.

By pk on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:21 am: Edit

Gil,

So what if he calls it shit? Around here most every Disco part is "shit", "junk" or just plain "fucked up".

“Shit” is almost a term of endearment... hehehehe

pk

By Anonymous on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:24 am: Edit

Gil - and if you think it's not shit, then say why you think it's good. Everyone will read the pro's and con's and decide for himself whether or not it's "shit". That's how people learn and what this bulletin board is for.

By pk on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:31 am: Edit

Hmmmm,

Kyle... I am thinking now that Parker is going to preach about "...a whole different world" of wheeling. Hehehehe, now, surely somewhere there is a whole different world of wheeling that we don't know about... but I really wonder if Parker has seen any of it?

I sense some finger waggin’ in that post…. Is it just me?

pk

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:35 am: Edit

so whats the record for longest thread? are we there yet?

-rd

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:38 am: Edit

Not even close! We have already broken 100 plenty of times.

By MTB on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:40 am: Edit

130 on winch opinions we are at about 78 now

By Parker Garrett (Parker) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:40 am: Edit

^^^^"I am thinking now that Parker is going to preach about "...a whole different world" of wheeling."

Yeah, you're right, what the hell do I know. I guess I'm in my own world.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:48 am: Edit

He aint saying that Parker , he is just saying that we have been over much. Enough to know what does what and what doesnt. PK infact has been through Pritchett canyon in Moab with no protection (Including sliders) and nothing more then 245s and came out completely in tact. I went through with 235 (With 65psi) both front and rear sway bars and my poor old woodheads that everyone wants to pick on. Some that were with us had a little flex. The majority didnt. WE all made it and we all broke out the winch in the same spots.
The one thing that should stand out though is that both trucks with stock diffs broke them. All the other did not. Thats the relevance to this thread..

Kyle

By gil on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 08:58 am: Edit

Anonymous,

im indifferent to it, i dont know enough to say whether its shit or not. i have an SG drop kit, with retained springs, that has worked fine for me. when i built my truck "cones" were found under a scoop of ice cream. am i running out to buy them? no. but ive seen rigs that run them without lockers and that extra flex did help them when in a sticky situation. granted lockers would have helped more, but the cones semed alright, aside from that horrific noise. someone having never heard of RTE, after reading this thread would probably think that they make shit. i dont think thats fair to john, this is his business and from the looks of it he does a pretty damn good job. if a couple people dont agree thats fine, but RTE reputation shouldnt have to suffer because of some folks opinions..

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 09:04 am: Edit

"A locker is totally safe for a newbie, "
Not sure I agree with that. It's a lot easier to put a locked Disco on it's side than an it is with an unlocked one.....

The original question was what should be the first mods for Ryan's truck. I would say protection and a moderate lift should be first. Yes, being unlocked makes obstacles a bit harder than if you have a locker, but it will also get you in the habit of picking better lines. You need to learn to walk before you learn to run.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 09:05 am: Edit

Hmmm , how so? John makes more then just ice cream cones and flexy shit. I have comented on his products many times in the past and had good things to say. Maybe if a person came to this board and read nothing but this one thread they would get that idea. But I am not sure I brought John into it. The Thread started with flexy sexy and thats what I addressed. If Lockers making more sense then flex hurts you in some way then thats a pill you will have to learn to swallow. Maybe some of those doughnuts Ron is offering will make em go down better...

Kyle

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 09:06 am: Edit

LOL , Axles post was coming from a guy with a broken rear diff,,,hehe Damn Viking...

Kyle

By MTB on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 09:10 am: Edit

Now I have been up for 22hrs now and I don't think anyone has said John's stuff is shit. Now I know there was things said how super flexy suspension are shitty but don't recall anyone saying that John's stuff was shitty.

Can't we all get along hehehehe

Michael B

By Ron on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 09:11 am: Edit

Tom,

Krispy Kreme challenge eh. I will send you a set of retainers if you want to try them instead of cones. Or you can make them on your own. Not tough at all. Thats the only thing I don't like that John makes, cones. Not that they break or anything just for me I am happier with retainer straps. Although it is a challenge to get much stretch out of a HD rear spring

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 09:18 am: Edit

Ron I am more into stuffage then droppage. Stuffage is much much better. When you have stuffage then the pressure aplied to the tires is more even. On a truck that drops the reslts arent anywhere near the same.. But thatss another thread all together.. One we can start if you like... I will take the doughnuts anyway if slinky Tom hasnt already grabbed em...

Kyle

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 09:19 am: Edit

Yes, my rear diff broke after a couple of Moab trips and assorted other outings, that is correct.
Allthough I do think a locker is a must eventually, I don't think it should be the first thing to go into a newbie's truck. Neither should a monster, slinky suspension. A moderate lift, decent tires and some protection should be first. The ultimate traction device, a winch, should be high up on the list, too.

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 09:25 am: Edit

"What does that mean? Kyles opinion is different from Johns which is different from Toms which is different from BlueGills."


=> But can we at least agree that Ho's truck is colored "Baby Shit Yellow"? I'd at least like to get that out of the way before the weekend.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 09:46 am: Edit

The guy already had the protection down , as well as the tires.. I agree on the winch as you already know bt he aint asking all that..

Kyle

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 10:03 am: Edit

Ron,

I am seriously up for the challenge. What does it take to make retainers or straps for little or no cash. I will go to Attica, IN and run the same stuff in my truck with and without the retainers back to back. Anyone who wants to come and take part and make sure it is a legit test, let me know.

For the record, I never was teed off about the an attack on slinky suspension, that is a good debate. However, I did get teed off when the RT stuff was seemed to be called shit in general. Not because I have it, just because the products are good and the topic is slinky vs. non slinky, not wether or not RT stuff is well made. I think we all would agree that John makes good products. I don't think anyone meant to say it that way, that is just how it sounded.

Anyway, anybody up to head out with me and be part of the Ron Krispy Kreme Slinky vs. Retained challenge?

Tom

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 10:10 am: Edit

for the record, my baby shits pea-soup green. I'd affectionately call Ho's little chickety "little school bus yellow"

Also, a wheel dropped x feet out of wheel well may be touching the ground, but what's the weight on it for traction purposes? A couple hundred pounds, if that (just the weight of that end of the axle, the wheel, and the tire)? Sometimes it's just a breath away from lifting... Why not use a locker to transfer 100% of the axle's power to the other wheel, which, by definition, is compressed and therefore chock full of traction?... That wheel that's extended out of the wheel well and just barely keeping contact with the ground is just going to break traction and spin and spin and spin, while his stuffed compadre is feeling useless.

I'm not arguing against articulation or a good amount of flex to keep you firmly planted and level, but transfer of torque to the ground through the tire(s) with the traction is the name of the game... Now you've all got me thinking that I have to do a little research and see what my amount of stuffage and articulation is with my OME HD front / MD rear springs & OME shocks...how has it changed over stock setup? Tonight it's me, a sixer, my Disco, and la pipa

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 10:21 am: Edit

blue gill.... you talking the "short bus" hehe


i didn't know ho was special, but that would explain a lot.

;)

also, i think it's more of a 'squashed caterpillar guts' yellow


-rd

By Leslie on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 10:28 am: Edit

From a dad of two....

It's "barfed-up creamed corn"...

Non-barfed creamed corn is too pale, but being barfed darkens it to the right shade.

-L

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 10:40 am: Edit

Pea soup green?

You mean I have more colors to look forward to?!?!?

By Chris Merritt (Smokinbro) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 11:04 am: Edit

just wait until you get strawberry flavoured gummy bears repeating.......lots of them....
washed back up with apple juice

you woudl think twice about a red Disco then........

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 11:10 am: Edit

Tom , I think it would be better to pit Kevin against a slinky thats unlocked or can unlock. That will break this shit up pretty quick. Kev has the low rider and has only a rear detroit. Ofcourse tests would have to be done with no momentum at all.. You up for that? Can you supply an unlocked slinky? I will talk to Kev.

Kyle

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 11:35 am: Edit

Not anymore. He's got the 2" spacers in the back and 1" in the front now...

But anyway, I don't recall anyone saying that a truck with a flexy suspension and no lockers can out run a truck with a non-flexy suspension of the same height as lockers. No shit - of course it will.

But a truck that's stock except for a flexy suspension and taller tires just might outdo a locked truck with stock suspension and tires. That low-hangin frame can be a sticking point sometimes.

To answer the original question that started this thread... This is the ORDER I would get the mods in if I was building up a Disco (and this is pretty much what I did)..

1. Diff guards, rock sliders, and HD steering linkage.

2. Lift & larger tires. (personally, I would not go with the cones --- if you want some more useful travel, clamp your springs top and bottom and either get longer shocks, or extend the stud. Also, get longer bumpstops to keep the shocks from bottoming out and tires rubbin on the bodywork.)

3. Lockers, gears, axles.

4. Winch, bumper (s)

I guess that's it for the major stuff.

The reason to do it in this order is this: when you install lockers, you will want to regear at the same time. If you have to open the diffs up again you are throwing away money. If you put in 4.1s with the stock tires you will be 16% undergeared - not good if you do ANY highway driving.

Soooo, unless you do lift/tires and lockers/gears/axles at the same time, do lift/tires first. That's a lot of DSUs to spend to get all that stuff at the same time.

Make sense?

Alex

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 11:40 am: Edit

That would be 2" in the front and 1" in the rear. Good I am glad he got them. I will hate asking him to take them out to stomp a slinky...

Kyle

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 11:44 am: Edit

Well I'll tell ya - the last time he and I wheeled up in Wisconsin he had his locker, and I didn't. We both went thru the same shit, and the only place we both got stuck was frame-deep mud.

See my previous post for my complete opinion on all this money-sucking nonsense

Alex

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit

Well , mud is mud , you will have to take it where the slinkys are supposed to shine... right? THe badlands has some nice rock?

Kyle

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 11:58 am: Edit

Kyle,

I think you are the only person who is arguing on the topic that a slinky suspension can beat out lockers. I certainly am not and agree with you that lockers beat slink, all other things held equal. What I want to see is slinky vs. non-slinky, all other things held equal. My truck can provide a great comparison as it is locked up and has some swampers on it. I want to test driving on boulders, on sharp peaks while turning, of camber climbs, etc both slinked and unslinked. That will decide if slinky is better than not slinky.

Tom

By MA on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 11:59 am: Edit

How about combining both of your plans(which is what I am thinking about doing to my disco). Get some RTE 2" springs, a Detroit locker in the rear, HD axle shafts, bigger more aggressive tires, and maybe a Tru Trac in the front.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 12:01 pm: Edit

Well , if thats settled then our mans question is answered... We can move on to your test? Start another thread Tom... I am tired of scrolling..


Kyle

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 12:13 pm: Edit

Alex - That approach makes good sense to me. After all, that is exactly what I did (minus the sliders. soon, soon.).

Tom

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 12:34 pm: Edit

Yeah, badlands has rocks allright. Don't think I'll be removing the detroits for the test though Besides, my truck is not a real good candidate for that test - you want someone with dropout cones for the slink test. My springs are as clamped as can be. Still get killer sexy flex but not like Tom's truck and definitely not like John's.

Alex

By Ryan on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 12:31 pm: Edit

I was reading in another post that a Detroit Locker isn't good if you have a 5-speed disco, is this true?