By Rabid BabySeal on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 08:56 am: Edit

Just out of curiousity (based on Mag lite thread), what is everybody using for personal security when you get approached by some unfriendlies ... my favorite is a mag lite that acts like a club and the end of the steering wheel "The Club" that acts like a nice night stick.

By J Allen on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 08:58 am: Edit

On road: mace or knife
off road: Glock 21 loaded w/black talons

By nadim on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 09:13 am: Edit

On/Off road...remington short barrel shotgun, with collapsable shoulder support
Good thing from living in the 3rd world countries...
lol

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 09:19 am: Edit

Best security when being approached by unfriendlies: gas pedal

If that is not an option, then personal firearm with appropriate tactical training is the next best thing. If the unfriendly has a firearm, then mace, knife, club, etc are inadequate (not to say that these things don't have their own purposes; they just become moot compared to a firearm).

Obviously, firearms intended for personal security are not to be taken lightly - they aren't made to play with or to take hunting or to impress, scare, deter, or hurt people; they are made to kill people. The gas pedal is a much better option - it doesn't carry the same consequential burden that firearms do.

-just my opinions...

By 94Rover on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 09:29 am: Edit

Hey Bluegill, what happened to the "Hey Bluegill is that a Glock?" guy I used to know about on this BBS....
I like your message, reads like a PSA(public service anouncement) very well written, are you being monitored by the Anti-NRA group? :-)
94Rover

By 94Rover on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 09:35 am: Edit

I forgot to answer this one.....
The gas pedal option doesn't work for me in the 94Rover.....I'd most likely get chased down, by foot or by the chasers "fast car"....now if I were to venture off the unpaved path, then maybe a couple of hills and rocks...and I'd be able to gas it on my way, but " The Club" works for me....Its funny, because when I bought it, I never intended to use it to lock my steering wheel....what a joke that would be.....do any of you use this piece of C**p to secure your Rover....I walked pass one of those 2001 MB S500's in Georgetown over the weekend, and the owner had a Club on the steering wheel...I thought "how silly" when I walked past it.

By Bud on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 09:44 am: Edit

Well, for some seasoning to this thread, who would care to define "unfriendlies"?

Bud

By John C. on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 09:49 am: Edit

Unfriendlies= 1. Anyone living in NYC, 2. Anyone born in NYC living elsewhere, and 3. My mother-in-law.

Taken from John C's version of the dictionary..

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 09:53 am: Edit

being monitored?....you never know...you'll notice I didn't use the evil 3-letter "G" word once (and no, it ain't "God")

The "Hey Bluegill is that a Glock?" guy is still around - he's just mellowed since his daughter was born. The PSA above can be re-written as follows: If the unfriendlies don't have a firearm, then beat them to a lifeless, bloody pulp with whatever you can get your hands on. If they're carrying, then shoot the sonsabitches full of holes. Then hit the gas pedal.

By nadim on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 09:53 am: Edit

and 4. non rovers!

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 09:54 am: Edit

in Bud's case, unfriendlies might mean Mall Security

By 94Rover on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 09:55 am: Edit

Those "cats" that stand around waiting to catch a ride with you by force.....
"Break yo'self from that nicely modified LandRover with the 3" Rovertyme lift fool"....
94Rover

In the District, they just wait for you to pull up to a traffic light with your windows down blasting "whats in your cd player"......often times the "unfriendlies" will wait for the undermodfied 4.6 Range Rovers(you know the ones without the bling-bling rims and limo tint), and thats a rariety....nobody wants to approach you in a RR, or a Disco, for fear of not being able to get far before having to service it---thats funny. I actually discussed this with someone in a parking garage...he of course was driving a base ML320...yep, it was silver grey.....

By Bud on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 10:00 am: Edit

I left that open for you on purpose Blue Gill. Good teamwork!

How about parts store guys that try to stick you with T*y*t* parts for your Disco?

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 10:03 am: Edit

thanks for the assist! actually, that parts guy was pretty friendly...stupid, but friendly

By gp (Garrett) on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 10:23 am: Edit

ain't all the many unfriendly in these here parts of PA. just some good ol boys with bug guards like 'hummin cummins' and 'orange crush'. they don't sound all that bad, but get a 12 of busch light in em and you kind find em out at the quarry shooting carp. i kid you not. they make large balls out of bread and toss them in and wait for the carp to rise to the top. and after that they like to terrorize 'jocks'. (thought that term was long gone)
but on PSU campus we are now getting more and more freaks in the how low can you go riders. pretty harmless though.

By Bud on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 10:32 am: Edit

Well, the sport here in the hills with the good ol boys used to be roadkill hunting. Get wasted and go shoot carcasses on the road. Bad aim wasn't such a big issue.

Bud

By mongo on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 10:37 am: Edit

on road: 4 cell maglite
off road: mini maglite mounted on barrel of a
ar-15.
for the real idiots, handcuffs...then tied to to the bumper and appropiate use of the gas pedal...

mongo
...just kidding about tying to the bumper..

By HangEmHigh on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 10:53 am: Edit

...just kidding about tying to the bumper..

Yeah - the class 3 hitch works better...

By mongo on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 11:13 am: Edit

that would work...maybe the use the winch...if not the the 92f w/laser site is a little intimidating. (the badge helps,too)

mongo

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 11:16 am: Edit

Mostly my dog, or my Walther P99 (40cal), Sig 226 (40cal), and if I'm out of the suburbs then I bring along my H&K USC 45 as well as the other two. I don't even go into D.C. unless I really have to. Except for some spots the place is a crap hole and doesn't have anything that I can't find closer to my house in N.VA..

By Pvt Joker on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 05:41 pm: Edit

AK74 (5.45 mm) and a little JFK Special Warfare School Unarmed Combat (for fun). Trained Bouvier Des Flanders for the house...

By Anonymous on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 05:47 pm: Edit

my wife enjoys the 4 cell Maglite when I am not home...but not for protection....

By Roverine on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Security: being surrounded by friends who know how to handle themselves and protect others ... I know that sounds/is wimpy ... I know how to handle a gun ... have studied martial arts for a long enough time I guess, but I have the upper body strength of a hamster. It dosen't hurt if my friends have a gun nearby.
Unfreindlies: Onroad - any dangerous jackass. I also think along the same lines as Eric; I avoid Los Angeles like the plague, but there is no safe haven anywhere.
Offroad - again, any dangerous jackass - can range from "coyotes" (the human kind) to various other smugglers, theives, maniacs and jerks. But there are also other kinds - Hey, J Allen, are you still there? ... Remember the story John told us about the paw prints (mountain lion) he found following his own footprints in the mud (after a big rain) while he was setting up a course in Wildemar??? Said a gun would have been rather comforting at that moment ...
Kim
Love cats, but not mountain lions out on the trail ;-)

By EricRat on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 01:13 pm: Edit

And just think some people think Rovers are a "yuppie" thing.

Please to see everyone is looking out for themselves.

Kimber .45 compact for when I don't suspect trouble.

AR-15 for when I do.

Eric

p.s. Will trade plastic poodle shooter for for good .308 bolt.

By Angry Rabid BabySeal on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 07:11 pm: Edit

crap ... with all this hardware out there ... I am upgrading to a rocket launcher ... I'll show ya road rage See ya on CNN ...

By discoman on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 07:37 pm: Edit

The other day I was out polishin the Disco.When two teen's eyed the Disco but didn't see me. They aproached the truck because all the window's were open and cd player blastin .I did see them and sent my trusty GR.shepard after them. To make a long story short I rescude them from behind the neighbor's fence. I told them to never come in my alley again becuase next time I won't call the dog off. You got's to be stupid to try and screw with a guy's Disco when theres a trained attack shepard guarding it.

By Mike W. on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 07:22 am: Edit

and to go with the various weapons , remember these words, always keep a winners attitude, always prepare the mind for victory, and stay alert....stay alive!
i work the road it has always kept me from harm!

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 07:33 am: Edit

Mike W I dig that post , many can benefit from that post. Most Americans now are lulled to sleep with that false sense of security. Prepared individuals are outcasts. Once you get out of the cities and off the paved roads you can drop to the bottom of the food chain pretty damn fast.

"When good pets go bad"

Kyle

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 07:42 am: Edit

When Americans aren't staring at the teevee, they're staring at their feet or the bumper of the car in front of them.

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 08:31 am: Edit

BlueGill, I don't think that most Americans can see their feet after a hard year of watching TV and popping pringles.. I know my feet have become strangers lately thus the diet that I'm on

By John Kruger on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 08:49 am: Edit

The best thing I carry, and yes it will sound stupid, is a smile. Some may laugh, but I have survived a great deal of bad situations because of my attitude. I have found a confident smile will stop most people from acting stupid. For those that it does not stop, they are usually still trying to figure out what the hell you were so damn happy about as their larnyx is pushed through the back of their necks.

I have always felt if I resort to violence, I have already lost. So, if I must resort to violence, I have NOTHING to loose.

I used to carry guns, but even with the best training, they always gave me a false sense of security. I like guns, (father's hobby was his class III license), and I have had the opportunity to handle a wide variety of weapons. In the end they don't work well for me.

In my truck, my truck is a weapon with a gas pedal that can be used to flee and smash a problem.

By Simon on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 09:05 am: Edit

my beloved best protection is no longer with me

80(

120lb Rotty


Simon

By Roverine on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 09:17 am: Edit

I feel your pain, Simon ... I have an old Boxer dog that is very protective of me. He just got a bunch of tumors cut out of him last week. Still waiting to hear results. I think that's why I've been on the board so much lately.

Kim

By Simon on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 09:47 am: Edit

thank you but she is not dead... I just dont have her with me..... (long story..)
she was so protective that back in my college days she broke one of the window of my hyundai to bite an UPS driver at 55mph.. the leash saved her..

she had this "thing" agaisnt mail man and Diesel trucks...hehe

Simon

By Simon on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 09:48 am: Edit

and sorry to hear about your boxer... i hope is all good!

Simon

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 10:44 am: Edit

John , that is very accurate but in the wild an animal doesnt really care what expression is on your face. You are just in the way and its very easy to remove you . Laws are the only thing that protect most from getting dead, but in the wild there arent any. You also cannot talk your way out of a confrontation with an animal. Just you ,without some sort of weapon , will get your ass kicked , there is no doubt..
The gun isnt there just for people and the rounds I carry dont prejudice.

Kyle

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 11:02 am: Edit

kyle, dont kid yourself... animals have feelings too. next time you stroll up on a grizzly bear and her cubs just smile and say hello and grab a cub and rub it behind the ears (they love that).

so long as you have a great mind set the bear wont give a shit "trust me"

-rd

By Roverine on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 11:16 am: Edit

You guys make me laugh out loud so much! Thanks

Kim
And I'm learning while I'm doing it

By Andy Nix (Andy) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 02:01 pm: Edit

kim-LOL.

I use my recovery shovel\knife\compass\wrench\saw. it's only about 12 inches long, but i'd hate to be on the other side of it when used properly.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 03:18 pm: Edit

Yeah , the working end of that could get ugly,,,,...


Kyle

By justin timberlake on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 05:34 pm: Edit

on road: backstreet boys no strings attached cd
off road: 30mm sniper cannon, so i can reach out and touch someone

By John Kruger on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 08:25 am: Edit

Who the hell gets out of their trucks to confront an animal? Ok, so when I am in the tavern they are all around me, but I am not their to confront them, it just happens that way.

Oh, I have come across bears, coyotes, mean cows, badgers, bunnies with very big teeth and Minnesotas state bird (mosquitoe). Never needed a weapon against an animal, unless I was hungry.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 09:03 am: Edit

LOL , so because you never have that means you never will? Hmm , thats kinda like saying I never been stick so I dont need a winch.. Get out of the truck? I spend quite allot of time out of the truck at night while I am sleeping in a tent. Exactly what kinda trips you been doing? Day trip to the end of the road?

Kyle

By John Kruger on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 09:16 am: Edit

OH, I take trips, of the acidic kind, well I think I do, I don't actually remember them but hey, whats a guy to do...;) and I get out of the truck, I have to move those pesky shopping carts out of my way. I don't want to scratch my perty truck, now do I?

Truthfully, the best animal deterent I have found is an air horn. Better than pepper spray and nearly as good as a gun, and a hell of a lot cheaper.

It worked really well on a pissed off Black Bear and her cubs. I was wandering down to a favorite fishing spot and looke here, a couple of purty teddy bears. As I slowly turned around and tippy-toed back up the path, there was the mother. The cubs did not see me, but she did. I let the air horn rip and they fled. I know I am lucky she did not rip me a new arse, but I have also seen a charging bear take a lot of rounds, kill some dogs and never hit the ground. Later to be found with a large part of its spine in pieces...

By Anonymous on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 09:35 am: Edit

"OH, I take trips, of the acidic kind"

I think you should come to Truckhaven with us

By Roverine on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 09:42 am: Edit

John,
Believe me, we don't go LOOKING for wildlife - to disturb them or us. Personally, I haven't been in a situation (YET) where we've had to shoot, but it is a very real possibility in the areas where we go. There are a lot of mountain lions & bears (etc.) that are very hungry due to a lot of developement that seems to never end here, and stupid people that feed them either advertantly or inadvertantly. (Guess that brings up a pet peeve of mine - these silly people who move into these new developements and then scream bloody murder when bears and the like come into their yards...) Especially with the mountain lions, we have had increasing attacks in the past several years to hikers, mountain bikers, even children in their own neighborhoods. Bears get hungry and bolder too. I cannot count the # of coyotes & snakes I see all the time, and I live in a densley populated area several miles from the hills near the beach for God's sake. I saw a coyote in broad daylight 4 weeks ago running around our street. That was one desperate animal. (No one has outdoor cats, etc. here for long). Do I carry a gun on the streets? No. But there are situations, like the one I mentioned above about a friend who was preparing a course in the local mountains at around 5:00 AM in the morning, and found out he was being stalked by a mountain lion. No, he didn't have a gun with him at that time. He was being stalked. There was no one else around within earshot. He was very, VERY lucky to have made it back to his vehicle. I agree with you, it's a rarity to actually have to shoot something. And I also agree about the animals in taverns, on the beach, etc.

By Roverine on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 09:51 am: Edit

Okay, (blush) sorry about the ramble ... My first response was exactly what Kyle expressed (much more succinctly) and I didn't see that or your response back. You make a good point with the air horn. ... (blush again) "Never mind ...."

Kim
And you should go to Truckhaven, it's a "blast"!

By Roverine on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 10:06 am: Edit

Oh, and Anonymous, (and everyone else)
don't worry, I'm not trying to get invited to Truckhaven - I know it's a guy's deal, and my Disco is bone stock anyway.
I'm talking too damn much, I'm going out for a run. Bye

By John Kruger on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 10:36 am: Edit

You people crack me up.

I see bears, coyotes, snakes, birds, bees, rabid dogs, kittens, oh spiders too, and all kind of other critters in my neighborhood all the time.
I too, live in a suburb. C'est la vie!

They don't bother me so I don't bother them. Use the same tactic when off the beaten track. When I do go out in the woods, usually it is me, a little gear and hat. Animals can sense fear, some (man) thrive on it. They also like to be left alone, escpecially when they have chosen to be in the middle of nowhere, so leave them alone. If you make the mistake of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, your gun may come in handy or you should have taken a left instead of a right....Actually, unless your highly trained and religously practice any 'self-defense'(read pulling gun) gesture on your part will be that, just a gesture.

Unless it is human, it will often leave you alone. If paranoid about something attacking you, carry a gun, and by the time you pull the gun out the attack will probably be over, being not highly trained or religously practiced. At least you will have something to focus on as the life seeps from your listless body.....

If you look for trouble, it will find you.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 11:05 am: Edit

LOL , you are hillarious and exactly the kind of guy I would read about on the news . How many times do you read about things happening to people on the news? Are you so stupid that you think that could never one day be you? I dont have a problem with "Paranoid" people , I have a problem with people that arent "Paranoid" enough. "Paranoid" to you seems to mean prepared.. I have spent a great deal of my life in the woods and yeah , you are right , most times they will steer clear of you as much as possible. But , that small percentage of times you may find yourself fucked. I doubt throwing your air horn at a pissed off bear is going to do anything for you other then make the article I am reading more comical. Yes if you are carrying it you should know what to do with it. The same gos with every single thing in your truck so you have made no point here with me. I think its pretty damn stupid to own something that you dont know how to use. I think its even more stupid to assume that the people you are talking to might have and not know how to use. There is many a poor dead bastard that thought that same thing. Dont you agree?

Kyle

By Anonymous on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 11:15 am: Edit

yeah, John, who do you think you are? Snow White???

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 11:23 am: Edit

Rovernine - meet us at Truckhaven - date to be determined (on another thread).

Personally, I carry a firearm more to deal with wild people rather than animals, although it is nice to know it's there when you see those glowing eyes peering out from the trees & bushes around the campfire. I'm a pretty good shot, but there's no way in hell that I'd be able to draw and kill a rattlesnake that I stumble on. 0.40 caliber is a little overkill for scorpions, too. All the bears I've encountered have run away from me as I try to get closer to observe them; mtn. lions & coyotes like to follow you around, but they turn & run when you turn and chase them. The only animals I've encountered who are persistent enough to require a gun are humans. But I would feel like a supreme asshole if the last thought I had as a big hungry somethin ate me was, "Damn, wish I had my gun..."

P.S. Ever seen what a grizzly can do to a car? It'll rip the doors off like the lid off a sardine can.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit

LOL ,and Animals dont react to most of Krugers charming methods... people are a problem but they are stupid for the most part and sloppy about anything they try to do. You can hear them coming a mile away and they have a mechanism that sometimes puts hesitation in their actions. Animals have none of that and are therefore more of a concievable threat. if a "Trained" individual wants to harm you , well , you are dead. No need in talking about that...

Kyle

By george w. bush on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 06:13 pm: Edit

i take acid trips too...

By mongo on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 05:45 am: Edit

I agree with blue gill...most of the problems come from a specfic type of homosapien...you obviously haven't been chased by a pissed off momma bear...when you do, you'll know why we carry. And when it comes to the moronicus humanus, it the perfect form of evolution. only the better armed survive...

mongo

and if your taking acid, let me know, so i stay out of the way...

By mike w on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 03:59 am: Edit

i must agree with gill f the blue hue.... if you carry for protection an animal in its elments is more likely the least of your worries. here in the wilds of ohio , kentucky, and and really anywhere you venture out of your house your greatest concern should not be lions and tigers and bears (dare i....oh my!) your greatest concern, nay, your greatest fear is and always has been man. with an animal you can often avoid contact by understanding its nature, animal rarely attack you for your visa or your keys. that is the treasure a man hunts. a bear will not attack you to show his dominance by raping you, man will. a beaver will not cut your throat to protect his dam, but a a money hungry scumbag will and leave you to rot if you disturb his marihuana plants (remember tread lightly). if it is not clear as to what i am saying then remember we are prediators, we are the ultimate prediators. smiles, air horns, good thoughts will not stop the attack of those sick brethern of ours who have nothing better to do than to defile our enjoyment of life, however a well placed small grouping of very hot metal alloy will. i am not preaching violence nor do i advocate drawing and shooting anyone for any reason without the knowledge that you or another person is in immediate danger of physical harm and that to shoot is the only means to stop the attack. nor do i beleive that every person in the world has the mental capacity to make such a decison and therfore be allowed to look at even a bb gun. i am saying the our Constitution allows us to "keep and bear arms" . (no i dont want to debate constitutional law) we should be able to excerise our right and we should, if neccessary, protect ourselves and those around us. we can avoid the necessity for deadly force by doing what i have alrady pointed out.
STAY ALERT.....STAY ALIVE!
know where you are and know where you are going.
know and learn to trust those who are in your company.
know your and theirs personal limits (dirt harry).
train your mind as well as your body for survival! (the mind is far more important than the body in this regard)
remember a smile is helpful and can ease a bad situation into a peaceful end....but when the shit hits the fan ACT....do something!
i hope i have not overstayed my welcome and i beg let no one take offense!

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 04:52 am: Edit

LOL , that attitide ("We are the ultimate predators") is what gets people in all sorts of trouble. Let me take your clothes and every belonging you have away from you and drop you a couple hundred miles out in the middle of nowhere ? WHere do you instantly rank then? How about a couple hundred miles out in the ocean? If Mankind is truley the "Ultimate predator" then you should be good to go no matter what,,,,right? The fact is that we rate pretty high as long as we dont stray from this society we have built. There are all sorts of laws and rules that make it nice and comfy for us. Step outside that and leave everything and you are master of nothing.
Other people can surely be a threat but the weapon is strictly for life ending type threats. I still feel that in the places I venture I am more likely to get in the way of a pissed off animal then I am a thieving individual. I live and work right outside of DC so I am not blind to the scum of the Earth. The thing is , I dont go wheelin in DC..


Kyle

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 04:58 am: Edit

No wheeling in DC? Last time I lived there, the pot holes could swallow a truck!

Out here in Southern California (and I am sure the other border states are similar), you do run the chance of running into some not so nice smuggler (be they smuggling people or other things) types. They tend not to like being interupted.

For the most part, I think you're right. The elements are more of a threat on most trails then other people (not counting the threat posed by bad off-roaders on the same trail as you're on).

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 05:13 am: Edit

Sure Jeff , I dont rule out other people all together. Just like rocks and mud are part of the envirometn in some areas , shady individuals are part of the enviroment in others. Keeping a gun in the truck seems to mean to most people that you are an individual that is likely to shoot another individual. The other, more likely uses are completely overlooked all together. Its just a tool no different then any other that you carry in the truck. Some you may never use in your lifetime but that one day you need it (For what ever reason) you will be damn glad it could get your ass out of a jam. And just like everything else you have in the truck , learn how to use it. If you arent good with it its better left at home.

Kyle

By mongo on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 06:00 am: Edit

right on klye!!! i think it goes for everything you'd carry in your truck. if don't know how to use it, leave it home...

frank

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 06:04 am: Edit

to some of us it's not worth the responsibility. i dont feel like worring about making sure some kid doesn't wonder into my car and grab the gun.

the human can use his mind to get him out of a situation, so thats what i rely on. i am betting in my lifetime i'll never need the gun, in exchange for this attitude i must remain fit and alert so that if a situation arises when a gun maybe nessecary.. i will use my other skills to avoid the confrontation.

i guess it's all geared to my quest for a stress free life. a gun doesnt make me feel at ease, it makes me worried that someone might hurt themselves with it.

besides... i can kill you with a claw hammer just as easy as i can shoot you.

-rd

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 06:17 am: Edit

Ahhh , poor Rob.... Still living in that world of his all by himself Face it Rob , some confrontations dont end short of violence. Its not the world we live in. As far as the wild gos. I dont think anyone has the twisted view that nature isnt violent. But its a choice you make and thats cool. Your statement pretty much says that you are not the type of guy to own or carry. Its very important to know yourself. Too many out there fancy themselves gun slingers...

Kyle

By mongo on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 06:21 am: Edit

Hey Rob, your right, i can kill you with a pencil if i really wanted too, and, it is very importrant to understand the responsibilty of carry a firearm. pretty soon they'll want to register claw hammers, pencils or anything else that can be used to kill someone.

frank

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 11:35 am: Edit

Hey!!! You!!! Come here!! Do you have a permit to carry the spoon out in public?

Rule number one of gun ownership is don't ever point it at anything you aren't planing on shooting and never shoot someone unless your life or some one elses life is in danger. I'm not talking about getting beat up I'm talking you're going to get killed. Rule number two, learn how to use it and learn well. Rule number three get a book of all the gun laws in your state and learn them. Will help to keep you out of trouble. If you want to carry it get the permit if you need one in your state. When carring it keep it some where that it can't be taken from you. If you don't have it on you then keep it locked up (gun safe, trigger lock, what ever) it will be doing your self and your kids a favor.. One of the best things to get for a handgun is a laser site. Does nothing for animals but, people it scares the hell out of. If you do pull it and they see that little red dot on them they will think very hard before getting any closer to you. Not to mention that you can use it to blind them and then escape without having to fire a shot. Point is if you don't like guns then don't get one if you do like them then learn how to use and take care of them safely. The NRA and almost any gun store/show will be able to tell you where you can take classes to learn pretty much anything from self defense to gun smithing. As for the spoon comment that I started this post with. I'm a little sick of whinny a$$ people blamming gun violence on the guns and every gun owner it's the individuals that need should be getting the blame. Like Mongo said he could kill you with a pencil.. Hell you don't even need a pencil you can just kill some one with your bare hands. Will you get hurt doing it probably but, in a life or death situation you'll do what ever you have to. Yes animals are rarely an issue in the true wild. But, with all the houses and people spreading out and feeding them they are becoming used to seeing people as a food source. Any time an animal sees you as a food source there will be a problem and it is only a matter of time. The main threat to any human in an urban area is other humans. Anyway I'll get off the soap box.

By mike w on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 11:44 am: Edit

hmmmmmm how to respond to those who in their own words contradicate all they say....yes we are the ultimate prediator. not because of our strength but of our gile. we feed off each other, we not only prey on the animal kingdom for food (yes i hunt) but we prey on each other. bears could give a shit what color your rover is, but the kid down the block might and would give a rats ass to whack you upside your shortsided head to take what he cant earn. a badger or a rattler (as i have already pointed out) could careless if you have 5 cent of 5 million dollars in your account, but the gangster (and lets clear that up if he says he is a ganster he is.....there is no such thing as a wannabe) watching for his prey (maybe you) in many of those small towns you transit thru on your way to your "fav" rovering spot he will ask you for what you have on you then take it. i hope your smile will passify his desire to prove himself to his buds and not put that claw hammer or pencil in you ear. i pray that what happen to those three souls in yosemite NEVER happens to you or anyone you know. i am glad in our times in our country you can believe that you are completely one with your fellow man and that everyone in your world is living on the otherside of the rainbow. i am a cop, i see people do things to each other for some of the damnest reason. again there are some people who cant even wipe their ass without reading the instructions on the t/p label maybe not everyone needs or even should carry a FIREARM when they venture into the wilds (urban or rural) but given the choice of carrying my walthers with me when i venture out or not, well you know the response to that because i know that mr bear, badger, or even mr. rattlesnake wont f**k me in the ass for my watch but in my travels on or off road but i know that if given the chance there might be a man (or woman) who will.
again i wish not to offend, but everyday i work i see what people do to each other. i know what they will do to get what they want. i meet every situation i come across with a smile, i dont always get the chance to leave with one. i would like to leave everyone feeling happy but it isnt always possible. my attitude is this, if you want my truck, take it, i have insurance you want my wife........ well thats another story. and if you decide that the driver carrying less than twenty bucks is worth more dead than alive then take your best shot.
now it seems i have offended, i apologize. if i am a bit hard for you guys please let me know, i came in discoweb as a guest and i can leave as one.
yes we are the ulimate predators not because we can run naked thru a forest and hunt small defenseless animals, but because our minds are greater than that of those beings (oh did i mention every living thing has a soul)that run wild. with that we have become the ulitmate
predators.
now i am just rambling.
good luck to all, i pray all your adventures are great and that you return from those adventures with peace in your heart.
please be careful!

By mongo on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit

Hey Eric,
your right about the laser site, scares the shit out of the idiots...and if you carry, please learn how to use it...

mongo
armed with a #2 pencil and a 92f w/laser site

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 12:39 pm: Edit

Yes, Mike W. you are correct. People do some messed up stuff to each other.. I have a few friends that are officers in Wash D.C. and Fairfax county. I also have one friend in the DEA and another in the FBI and yes there are some really sick people out there that do some really sick stuff. Some times for no reason at all other then they felt like it and you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If some one is going to take my car, watch, what ever. I'll give it to them. You can always buy another. If they threaten my life or some one elses with me then I will take action to ensure that doesn't happen. Even after some one robs you and you give them what they want you still have to be careful as they may shoot you anyways. Yes, we are the ultimate predators as we have made things to help us be that way. Even cave men made spears to give them the upper hand. An animal will really only kill you for three reasons. Protecting it's young/turf, feels trapped/cornered with no other choice, or for food cause it's hungry. People will kill you just cuase they don't like the way you look or that you have a really cool jacket and they want it. We didn't start out the ultimate predator but, we have become it.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Mike? What makes you think you offend? You are wrong in some of your statements but thats not offensive.. WE are only the ultimate predator as long as we have the tools that this society has given us. If you think the animal kingdom lacks brains then you need to get out of the city more. There are quite a few species that will hunt your ass and I mean all over , not right there in your back yard. So , lets think about this. Lets put a polar bear (Just generic , they will hunt a man) and equip you with the same tools he has (Himself) who is coming out on top there? Grizzly? Dont dismiss them so quickly cause they cant build 12 story buildings and destroy everything in their path as we do..
You are a cop so this is knda funny but it brings up something I spoke of earlier. A guy comes at you in the city and you pull your badge? That may be all you need to avoid any confrontation at all. Now , momma bear has had about enough of you stomping around near her cubs and she decides to try you out. Whats that badge gonna do for you there? Is that because she is stupid? Or because you arent the ultimate predator and she knows it. In fact , you are very very easy to remove from her world...
What you speak of in the cities is very accurate , I drive through it every day. I have lived 18 miles from DC my whole life and I am quite aware of what people are capable of. But again , I dont go wheeling in DC. Also , the probability of me being busted with the pistol in the truck in DC is far higher then me actually having to use it and come away from it clean. How about you and 10 of your cop buddies going hand to hand with one pissed off adult grizzly female who thinks she is protecting her cubs? LOL Admit it man , take away the tools you have and you are nothing pretty damn fast... Its pretty arrogant to think otherwise. Again I say the chances of such a thing are pretty damn slim even more slim are the chances of a confrontation with a person in BFE. But the consequences are pretty absolute. As far as me feeling I am "One with my fellow man" well , ask around lol , you will see otherwise. I hear what you are saying. But my lack of faith in the ability of my fellow man is what makes me discount them as a threat.. Make sense?

Kyle

By mike w on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 01:32 pm: Edit

i have seen your point kyle, in that if you put me in the desert with nothing but a smile, and alot of spf 99 i would not have much of a chance, uh neither would a polar bear. the problem in our society is that scumbags are not always easily id'd. it has been pointed out that urban expansion has caused the wilds to mix with the so called civilized. coyotes, bears etc are found in odd places. on the flipside thugs are showing up in places that were once considered somewhat sacred, ie. yosemite. again i am not preaching violence. i am saying that as a human, i have the right to my well being, as a human i have the right to expect you have the right to well being. as a civilized (thats questionable) human i believe that i have the right to protect my life and if i the need ever arises yours. am i worried about it to the point that i wear kevlar when i walk to the garage, no. do i carry concealed when i go to columbus (largest city near my central ohio home) rarely. i rely on my wits, charms and sweet smile to prevent harm to those i care for. key word being PREVENT. i walk the life of a boy scout, i am always prepared , mentally and physically. i know where i am at all times and i know where i am going. i live with the mindset that i will win any and all conflicts i am exposed to, yes a polar bear may kick my ass then eat it, but he will know that he was in a fight (this may cause a greater apperication of the food he is enjoying), but a two legged animal with an eye on what i put a great value on will lose. there is no other possible outcome. on the streets or in the hills of souhern ohio or in the swamps of georgia (my childhood stomping grounds) i STAY ALERT....this will keep you alive! it is foolish to pretend that preparation and realization will keep you from harm (againest a bear or a scumbag) but, BUT if you dont take steps to ensure your safety then you are a statistic. i hope we meet soon kyle, i can see that as we smoke a fine cuban seed cigar that the conversation would be intellegent, enlightening and most certainly sprited. i look at no man as my enemy but i let no man put himself in a postition where he becomes one.
your friend,
mike w

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 02:10 pm: Edit

Yes Mike ,we are on the same wave length here. I have no problem with any of that. And yes , places that once were safe are no longer. I see that more and more here every day. I dont walk around frightened either and awareness with me is a given. I dont even talk about it much cause people say I am no fun if you look in the "Discovery" section you will see I did a little write up on awareness and wheeling. Awareness and every day life is something that people just dont get. Guys like Kruger will call you paranoid and most will call you no fun. If more people payed attention and aware of their surroundings life as we know it would change drastically. I dont think I could take it !!
I infact have told others that I had the pistol with me because of more "Domestic" type threats but thats only in certain areas and to tell you the truth , only one thing bothers me and thats sleeping There are two times in your life that you are most vulnerable , when you are a baby and when you are sleeping. That sleep thing is unavoidable

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Kyle no dog? Dog would bark and wake you up while you were sleeping long before someone could get to you... Well unless they through a pipe bomb in your window or some thing.. There is also a third time Kyle in your life when you are most vulnerable and that is when you are old (70's/80's/90's)... Either way it boils down to if someone or something wants to harm you. You have two choices. Run and hope it doesn't catch you or stand and fight and hope you win. Gun, knife, bat, hammer, bare hands, hell your teeth even if it means living. Me I'd try to avoid it but, if I can't then I'll have a gun to defend my self with. Anyway maybe we should all get together over a nice Scotch (or whatever your poison is) and I'll bring a box of Savinelli ELRs.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 03:56 pm: Edit

LOL kyle buddy... think of how much more aware and prepared you would be without that gun... hehe, man,, thats where i am at.

there are other 'non lethal' ways of stoping that bear you talked about too.. thats what i mean about using my other skills to get out of the situation. one of those skills is having the foresight to bring a slow running friend along that i can beat down (with my hammer) and leave as bait.

seriously though. one of the main reasons i 4whl is to practice just incase i realy need to go offroad to get away from someone... it's just that it happens to be fun to practice.

maxwell silver...

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 04:17 pm: Edit

Dog is good but a pain to drag along with us on the trail. I have a wooofer here but the .45 has allot more teeth and a much louder bark..

Kyle

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 04:35 pm: Edit

Ya but the 45 won't wake you up when it hears some one walking around out side your house. I leave my dog at home most the time I go out also but, they are nice to have around the house. It really just depends where I go. Some times I take him some times I don't. If I'm going wheeling then he stays at home. Camping or something like that then I bring him along.

By Roverine on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 08:23 pm: Edit

Speaking of dogs, good news! ... I think my old doggy is gonna be around for a little longer (see old message above).
Good thread! I think the most important thing brought up here (from all of you) is BE AWARE, AND KNOW YOUR STRENGHTS AND LIMITATIONS.
There is, I'm afraid to say, one more very scary thing you guys haven't brought up .... PMS. For those of you living with or around any of us females, BE AWARE, be very aware. This is just a biological fact. Nothing more dangerous ...
Some hints:
1) Whatever you do, DO NOT DISAGREE WITH US (unless she is making a self effacing remark, then you better know how to be sincere, but flattering... it helps to be preemptive, and make self effacing remarks about yourself first)
2) Keep lot's of salty and choclate things on hand (ice cream can be very helpful too)

-K
Also red wine ... not good. I wish I'd never developed a taste for it ... it's very expensive and high in calories, and it is hard to bring along when wheelin' and, I've just been to a birthday party, and I should sign off ... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

By Horness Spencer (Horness) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 09:52 pm: Edit

3 DCell Mag at side of seat. 3ft iron pipe in boot space (recommended use is for adding leverage to wrench, but hey, thats my excuse)

Plus I do Muay Thai (full contact). Which kinda helps.
If there are two or more though, I exercise the right to either apply the gas pretty damn sharp, or practise my running skills.

Live in the UK, so carrying loaded fire-arms in the vehicle is against the law. When I transport the rifles I have to inload them, remove the bolt, and secure them. Just to travel 10 mins!

Best protection though - inflatable mother-in-law on the back seat!!! Works for me every time. Scares anyone off. Better than a dog!

Horness.

By mike w on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 04:07 am: Edit

my money is on roverine..... you got my points!

By John Kruger on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 04:57 am: Edit

Do I dare stir the pot some more???OK, what the hell. I am in the office now, and it is not as much fun as this weekend.

I don't think someone who is prepared is paranoid. Just 90% of the gun owners I know are paranoid. I ask you this, who purchases a dozen AK's to hunt with? I mean, the 7.62 is not something to hunt with. I know what they intended to use them for. They were the most paranoid people on the earth, and if you happened to disturb them while they were 'working', bad things would happen. I have found when people are prepared for bad things to happen, they have a tendancy to seek them out. Maybe this is out of a desire to prove readiness, don't know, just something I have observed in myself and other people.

I appreciate the opinions, some of which are very good indeed. Unfortunately, by spending most of my life on the opposite end of the law, I have been a part of or involved in those bad things everyone is talking about. I have been shot at, stabbed, and beat down real nice. I know how much of a true animal man is, I have been one myself. I also know that man likes to get drunk/high/whatever and show the world how invisible he/she/it is. In most of these situations, my gun/mace/knife/weapon did me no good. But my wits saved my life. Yes, I too thought I could handle any situation, but how I handled it did not always turn out the way I had planned.

I guess being prepare is a good place to start, but the best laid plans can and do fail. More importantly, understand your abilities and limitations to get yourself through the day.

---let the flames rise higher---

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 05:51 am: Edit

LOL , no reason to flame that.... I dont rate men or anything else by how they perform when things are going as planned. I rate men , equipment , myself , every damn thing on how it performs when everything gos to shit and the plan and the smooth sailing has gone south in a big way..

Kyle

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 06:37 am: Edit

Yup.. When it hits the fan and your in the middle of it is when you find out exactly what type of person you really are. I have been in some situations and I'm still here but, then again other people have been in far worse and I don't know how I would react if it happened to me. You never really know till it happens to you. It's one thing to plan, prepare, and be highly trained and thinking that you would know what to do but, you never really know till it happens. Am I a little paranoid? A little yes. I live in an area that has over ten different Asian gangs operating three of which are in my neighborhood. I'm careful about what I do at night when I'm out walking my dog and such but, no more so then anywhere that I go. I don't carry my handgun with me and I'm not scared to go out at night or leave my house. I do carry it some times but, most of those times I am going to the shooting range, camping, stuff like that.

By mike w on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 06:44 am: Edit

for the record and i pray the atf is not watching.i own the following firearms;
1.browning 12 ga semi auto shotgun...skeet, wing shooting
2. an old sears 20 ga. single shot shotgun....squirrel gun
3. 50 cal t/c blackpowder....its just fun to shoot
4. a new england arms single shot .223 cal.....i live on a farm, its my varmit gun
5.walthers p99...back up/off duty and home protection.
i dont own fifty ak's nor do i care to. i have been shot at and attacked both conventional and some odd weapons....still here because i was prepared mentally!
ppp=ppp or piss poor planning = piss poor performance
my fire is out.

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 07:41 am: Edit

humans are soft and pink with trimmed fingernails and blunt teeth. It's our smarts and a few other evolutionary advantages that let us make & use tools to master everthing else. Kyle brought up good points - drop me naked a couple hundred miles in the middle of nowhere with no resources (or even worse, in the ocean) and I'll probably be food for the damn hungry vultures or fishies. Middle of a forest is a different story - please do me a favor and take me away from my office and drop me there!

By SOLO on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 02:18 am: Edit

This just in : The Colorado State Dept of Fish and Wildlife is advising hikers, hunters, fishermen and golfers to take extra precautions and to be on the alert for bears this summer. They advise people to wear noise producing devises such as little bells on their clothing to alert but not to startle the bears unexpectedly.

They also advise you to carry pepper spray in case of an encounter with a bear. People should also be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear droppings: Black bear droppings are smaller and contain berries and possibly squirrel fur. Grizzly bear droppings have little bells in them and smell like pepper spray.

Remember when you head out into the wilderness you are no longer at the top of the food chain..you are become part of it.

By mike w on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 03:20 am: Edit

ok solo point made and thats funny!