By rob b. on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 12:08 pm: Edit

does anyone have any experience with them and are they worth the money?

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 12:26 pm: Edit

check Kyle's window.

One real concern is that it is liable to suck in whatever hits it - there is no protection around the filter element like with the stock intake horn / plastic airbox system. Therefore, mud & water splashing into engine bay only has the filter element holding it back from your engine innards. OK for a sports car, but bad for off-road.

By Bargain Hunter on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 01:32 pm: Edit

The Air Force One is a real bargain at $250. I mean, if you were to make your own like Doug Hormann did, it would cost you an entire $30. You wouldn't get the shiny tube and fancy decal under your hood, but isn't that a GOOD thing?

By rob b. on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 02:51 pm: Edit

how would you connect the mass flow sensor?

By Bargain Hunter on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 03:22 pm: Edit

You just leave the mass flow sensor where it is. Unlike the Air Force One kit, you don't relocate anything.


http://www.discoweb.org/kncone

By rob b. on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 03:59 pm: Edit

got it now, thanks for the help....

By Mike R. on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 05:28 am: Edit

My guess is that the air force style air filter doesn't do a damn thing for performance. I bought a Turbo City K&N airfilter setup for a Grand Cherokee. It was supposed to give great performance, added hp, torque, all the typical BS. Needless to say, all is did was make a litle more noise.

By jojo on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 06:38 am: Edit

So does Doug recognize any performance improvements with his setup?

By wisker on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 09:16 am: Edit

I'm using one. Very little noticable difference (if any). I bought it because my airbox needed replaced. I don't off road as much as I'd like (I work too much) so I'm not to concerned about water/mud intake. No real complaints, but I'm not raving about it either.

wisker

By John on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 09:18 am: Edit

No performance increase, higher chance of water intake, less filtration...but looks great.

By Ron on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 09:26 am: Edit

Alyssa actually saw some benefit installing a K&N. Gas mileage went up appreciably and it felt a bit peppier. No the stock was not clogged (it was new as of a month ago). Not the airforce one just a regular stock disco sized K&N. For offroad though we swap the stocker back in.

Ron

By Ron on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 09:27 am: Edit

Oh and on an OBD II disco it has to learn that you have one so you won't see an improvement until a few engine cycles (say two weeks)

Ron

By DAVE on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 01:32 pm: Edit

if air force one doesn't do much, then why the hype??

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 01:43 pm: Edit

one word: CHROME

all things with chrome on them are inherently cool and therefore full of hype!

By Airforce Lover on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 02:11 pm: Edit

No man you're way off. Charles at Roveraccessories swears to me that he feels a power gain there and you can take whatever he says to the bank. Plus the price Charles charges for the kit is very reasonable at only $240.

By ; on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 02:24 pm: Edit

$240 is a freakin rip-off. you can buy used JE*P for that price ;)

By hehehe on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 02:25 pm: Edit

'is very reasonable at only $240'

hehehe...

By Airforce Lover on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 02:44 pm: Edit

$240 is very reasonable. You get a shiny chrome tube that is precision bent to maximize airflow. Charles assures me he engineered the entire thing for maximum performance.

By gil on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 02:49 pm: Edit

"maximum performance"
like a presicion bent chrome tube would make a difference in a 5000 lbs truck...but boy o boy that chrome sure looks neat!

By rip on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 02:58 pm: Edit

you guys got me convinced. i'm ordering one right now!! just one question, do you think thay give student discounts??

By rip on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 02:58 pm: Edit

you guys got me convinced. i'm ordering one right now!! just one question, do you think they give student discounts??

By Perrone Ford on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 04:45 pm: Edit

I'm all for gains in power but I got two words for this stuff:

Dyno Pull.

I have ZERO direct experience with this product, but if they want to charge $240 bucks and claim performance gains, they could spend the $50 bucks on a Dyno test to validate the claims. If someone wants to send me one (for a RR Classic) I'll pay for the Dyno pull.

-P

By hehehe on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 06:02 pm: Edit

why don't you just bend over for charles?

By Arthur on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 06:29 pm: Edit

My friends dad owns some Cummins engines wharehouses, I can Dyno for free, send it to me.

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 08:26 pm: Edit

i've had the air force one and i did notice better mileage. it took about 4 tanks of gas to settle.
performance was about same... maybe a bit better at cruising speed.

i took it off after i got tired of the filter falling off from the MAF, and got worried about mud and water.

get a snorkle instead.

By jef on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 08:42 pm: Edit

$240 and the cone kept falling off? man, they don't build em' like they use to...

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 05:37 am: Edit

just chrome plate your stock airbox.

By pk on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 07:55 am: Edit

Yeah,

The cone keeps falling off or getting loose. I think the performance gain comes from the cone getting chopped up in the fan blade and not being around to restrict (or filter) the air flow what so ever.

I have the $35 home made one and it seems the same. About 4 tanks of gas later I have about 1 mpg better. There is a little power boost in first gear but alas, it is minimal.

pk

By Nathan Hindman (Nathanh) on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 08:18 am: Edit

"Airforce Lover,"

If you're going to go around talking sh*t about someone, the least you can do is have the balls to not do it anonymously. At least that's my opinion...

Nathan Hindman

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 08:27 am: Edit

"Chrome dont get ya home" Boy that saying is old. I am including "Cool" with Chrome ofcourse...


Kyle

By a on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 09:08 am: Edit

Airforce lover the only person taking anything to the bank is Charles. and its your cash
Cos you've been taken.....

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 09:16 am: Edit

but cool dont' rhyme... so it should get ya home.
LOL

yeah nathan, as usual, people talk shit all the time, and they have no face, no name and no brains.

By pjkbrit on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 09:40 am: Edit

Don't know about Airforce One...other than from a Presidential point of view...but for $40, just put a k&n cone on the air mass meter..they don't fall off and they DO help airflow into the engine. At $250...hehehe

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 11:27 am: Edit

Yes brit , why destroy your engine with a heavy foot when you can do it with a worthless filter. Keep in mind its a FILTER thats its job , it aint supposed to make you fast , its supposed to FILTER , thats all , simple.. As for the shiny tube,,,,well , its a shiny tube , no rocket science designed in there. Hoover and Kenmoore have them as well....


Kyle

By Ron on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 11:33 am: Edit

Kyle,

trick to K&N is keeping it oiled up. Ran one on the POS when I lived on a dirt road and never had an issue with it not filtering (back of the airbox was clean. But I changed it every couple months and reoiled/cleaned it. Will be interesting to see how much more or less dirty the oil is next change.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 11:45 am: Edit

Why bother? For what? The "The trick" as far as I can see is not getting that oil all over the window seal as its being thrown out it... Its fluff man , thats all..


Kyle

By Ron on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 11:48 am: Edit

Why bother? For what?

Better mileage, better performance, not having to find and buy a new frigging filter after everytime you drive through some dust. I am not talking about the AF1, just K&N in general.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 11:58 am: Edit

Oh the AF-1 is serious fluff. Even if NASA designed it its fluff. THe K&N will fit , and , does belong in the same trash can. It aint giving you a damn thing . I like to compare these things to those deer whistles that go on your bumper. Marketing brilliance!! You never know if they truley work , you want to think that they do what the box says cause you dont want to think of yourself as someone that could get taken.. Its brilliance... Its also the gift that keeps on giving because seldom will anyone say they wasted their money on something , they will say its the best thing since sliced bread. I have run them onthings before desperately hoping that they would do as advertised. I was a young kid with no cash so I was into that cheap rocket booster shit. NOTHING is what I got. Now , the slinky has one and dont sneeze near it or it might fall off. Its got some Woooooooooooooooossssshhh action going but thats all it has going.. So school me on the oil Ron.....

By rob b. on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 12:31 pm: Edit

i thought k&n was one of the few companys that did research on their products? am i wrong to asume this?

By Mark Preston (Mark) on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 01:17 pm: Edit

For as little performance it adds to a 4WD and the loss of filtration I would not add a K&N. Check out an old thread on K&N's.

http://www.gis.nsw.gov.au/staff/rnott/bmw/BMWText/technical/K&NFilters.html

Several good points made. 1) unless it brings in cooler air, performance actually drops 2)filtration performance actually drops pretty quick 3)filtration in dusty environment looks to be really bad. If you want a reusable filter I would go with the Amsoil one.

- Mark

By Ron on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 03:19 am: Edit

So
school me on the oil Ron.....

You basically have to keep it soaked really well for it to filter as good as stock.

Ron

PS I was a skeptic but it did help a bit on the gas mileage

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 05:11 am: Edit

A little nitrous cough makes that oil and filter media do spectacular things,,,,hehe


Kyle

By Ron on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 05:16 am: Edit

I am sure it does (un)fortunately the disco is not on the bottle

Ron

By pjkbrit on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 10:57 am: Edit

Hey Kyle...you were real hard on me back there...I have a k&n on my Saab900T also...made a much bigger performance difference cos the turbo has a lot less drag on it..."ruin your engine"????hardly...the Saab has 250K on it and still does 28mpg...k&n filters are fine and DO help airflow significantly...my Disco flies..and it's only the 3.9...and no it doesn't do 10mpg...averaging 15-17 or even 18 on longer runs.
Try one...the paper filters cause a problem when they get clogged....k&n filters are easy to clean and I have never seen evidence of dust ingress into the intake...
just my 02c

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 11:14 am: Edit

Man , I wasnt being hard on you. I just cant stand all the Gimmicks. You get certain things to do certain jobs. Some things inhance performance and some things inhance engine life. Its not a cross platform kinda deal. A filter is supposed to filter , thats it. WHen putting in a FILTER you should use what does that job the best. You want power? Get a cam or an adjustable waste gate. Something real..... My disco gets that same kinda mileage with 32s . I have a regular old no power type paper filter.

Kyle

By Jeremy J. on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 11:24 am: Edit

I thought that cotton filters like K&N are better for filtering. I was under the impression that cotton filters are better at filtering, and keeping the air flow going while still doing its job. Don't the baja racers generally go with a cotton filter (or sponge) since the environment is so dusty and all? I know that the engins are torn down after each race and rebuilt, so ingress if dust and particulates don't matter to them, but then again - I've never heard of K&N letting in stuff and doing damage to the engine.

By Moe on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 11:41 am: Edit

I have to admit that I was suckered on the K&N filter. When I saw how skinny and see-through they were, I became a bit concerned, but given the flashy packaging I knew the Disco would perform well. The Disco went off-road in dry Eastern Washington and everthing inside and outside was covered in fine dust. Sure enough I found a good coating of dust all the way up the intake to the plenum chamber and if I remove the chamber, there will be evidence there too. I can see where the K&N could be tolerated in particular environments, but it does not filter the dust well

By Ron on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 11:44 am: Edit

Did you oil it before the install? That is the trick. If you read the package it says oil extra for dusty conditions. I used to drive through giant clouds of dust everyday and had no problems.

Ron

By Moe on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit

No, I did not add extra oil. That might have helped a bit. The packaging also says that as the filter clogs up a bit, it filters better. Maybe I should have rubbed it around in the dirt a bit before install

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 11:49 am: Edit

LOL , or , just skip the bullshit and put a decent filter in there. It aint "Cool" but its been working for years and years...


Kyle