By ryan on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 10:58 am: Edit

I have heard/read mixed reviews on a ARB locker. Is it any good? Who has had problems with their ARB locker? I have also heard that a ARB locker will only last about 4 years before it just dies on you, is this true? I don't want a Detroit locker because I don't want those negative handling characteristics.

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 11:05 am: Edit

ryan, you are better off with an ARB locker.
it'll fail sometimes.
but it won't handle like crap like with detroit.

you know something though?
i still dont understand what the fuss with the detroit handling problems are.
i have detroit rear and ARB front. and i still dont' understand what this negative handling characteristis is all about.

By Perrone Ford on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 11:14 am: Edit

What do you mean you don't understand Ho? All you gotta do is put your foot in it when you go around turns and you'll see why you couldn't possibly EVER be happy with one!

All this locker crap just kills me. ARB's fail after 4 years, detroits will spin you out and kill you. What foolishness. I've seen ARB lockers working just fine for years. I also note that Detroits used to be standard fitments in NASCAR winston cup cars and they seem to work just fine on flats, and inclines and everywhere else. I don't think you could say those guys aren't on the gas! It's all a matter of learning how your truck works and not doing anything stupid.

By the way Ho, when you coming to Florida?

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 11:18 am: Edit

You forgot to mention that same ole slick off camber thing that all the ARB people like to mention. I sure am glad I never ran into one of those with the detroit in there. I dont know what I would do. Maybe turn around and go back home...


Kyle

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 11:21 am: Edit

yeah, i dont' understand.
i've tried the pedal to the medal thing while cornering, and nothing. maybe my detroit is broken?

or does it have to be the street corners of FL somewhere?
cuz out here, it dont' do shit.

ARB works man.
but when it fails, it fails. but when it is working, it works nice.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 11:25 am: Edit

Yes Ho ,I just know that one day all those negative things about the detroit will kick in on me. Until then I will just dream of an ARB that I can one day stop and fix on the trail..

Kyle

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 11:29 am: Edit

kyle, id' love to give you the pleasure of you fixing my ARB failed locker.
but, hehe, that won't happen.
even if my little hisser failed, i'd never tell you.
just for the hell of it.
LOL

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 11:33 am: Edit

another thing kyle, when you see chickety on some failed hill climb attempts, and you dont' hear that compressor pumping....
you might probably see brake lites instead.
LOL

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 11:33 am: Edit

There is something that I am not admitting here. We all know that lockers will break axles . I am pretty sure that ARB is a smart locker. Sometimes even though you have flipped that cool little switch and that vibrator is running under the hood , you will get no locker. I am fairly certain that this was designed into the system and it wont lock in a situation that may break an axle . Truley a technological wonder that ARB locker is...

Kyle

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 11:44 am: Edit

are you saying that ARB is made to be that smart?
it will fail when it fears shaft breakage?
LOL

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 11:47 am: Edit

Fail?? Oh no... I am pretty sure its made that way..

Kyle

By L_Tilly on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 03:36 am: Edit

To quote programmer lingo: "That's not a failure, it's a feature"....

L_Tilly [email protected]
96 Disco "Beowulf" - NH, USA

By ryan on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 05:50 am: Edit

Is the ARB compressor a universal fit thing or is it specifically made for certain cars?

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 07:51 am: Edit

ryan, i think there's only one ARB compressor for all vehicles.

By Ali on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 12:44 pm: Edit

Ryan,

Any compressor will do in this case. This includes: QuickAir 1, 2, or 3, Red Top from Aussie, ARB, EAS air compressor from a RR etc.. Heck, I saw one dude just carry around the 2 1/2 gallon air tank out of a '93 LWB RR and hooked up the solenoid valves to that thing. He just pumped it up at the gas station and used it all day w/o filling! The tank was in the back of the truck.

I chucked the ARB supplied solenoid valves and switches for simple air switches. These can be found in any Peterbilt, Freightliner truck parts store for about $13/each. No electrical switches or solenoid valves to worry about on the trail.

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Ali,

Could you elaborate on what you did to replace the ARB supplied solenoids & switches with simple air switches (and why this is advantageous)? I don't think my ARB in the rear axle is engaging. Dash switch activates compressor (and I can air tires), but wheelspin during recent off-road trip pretty much tells me that it isn't locking. I have to trace possible leaks or bad connections between compressor & diff this weekend, but I'm curious to learn what you did. I also have a 10L bottle or two that I plan on plumbing into the system to hold additional compressed air for tires - it may be easier for me to make this whole system simple-stupid.

P.S. Kyle, don't even start, man!

By ryan on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Damn...this locker shit is confusing. It seems like no one makes the perfect locker for a Land Rover. The ARB fails and lasts for a couple of years and the Detroit sucks for on-road use. Maybe True Tracs are a good compromise.

By LR Max on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Question:

When an ARB fails, what part fails? Do hose lines break or does the whole thing just blow up? I am thinking about lockers (we all do ) and want to know the full story on ARB failure.

By Troy on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 05:33 pm: Edit

I think a better statement is "no one makes the perfect locker". Of course, Kyle would probably tell you the Detroit IS the "perfect locker" -- 8^}. TTs are good but won't give you as much traction as 2 lockers (yes, I went with ARBs). It's just all what you want. As with every mod, there's always a drawback. What are YOU willing to live with and what do YOU want out of your set-up?
Troy

By Ron on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 04:10 am: Edit

The lines fail often when the seal goes or they get caught and ripped but are easy to repair. What sucks is when the O rings or the big seal fails (I don't know the technical term for the Big seal) in either of the latter cases the third member has to come out to fix it. It the big seal goes you have to take everythign apart.

Ron

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 06:19 am: Edit

I have to dedicate some time to trace my entire ARB system, but I know that the problem is somewhere between the compressor & diff (dash switch starts compressor just fine). Will post results of ARB check after this weekend...with my luck, its probably Ron's nefarious "Big Seal"

and of course, there's no such thing as true "perfection"!

By Dennis on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 12:09 pm: Edit

bugs are random features

By Ali on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 01:12 pm: Edit

Ryan,

Lockers are simple mechanical devices that are prone to failure due to misuse and below par maintenance. Let me elaborate: an ARB or detroit will fail only if you don't change the fluid regularly, if you hop one wheel while rock crawling or asundry of other scenarios that take place while off-roading. Ask youself this question: if you're snapping axles with lockers is it really a malfunction of axles or lockers? Neither actually, it's a malfunction of the driver (flame retardant suit is on now)!! We all get used to keeping our foot in it with open diffs so when the lockers are in it's hard to get out of that habit. Really with ARB, you'll have condensation in the air lines and some of it will end up in the lockers. Simply replace the diff fluid regularly and especially if you like to do "amphibious" activities!

While off-roading, try to limit wheel spin to a minimum and definitely prevent wheel hopping. The beauty of ARB is that you can engage it to get through that shitty area then disengage and finish out the trail in an open diff. Scott and Tom saw this first hand last weekend at Attica!

No matter what you end up purchasing, you'll HAVE to alter your driving habits.

Blue Gill

What I used was basically an "air switch" that truckers use to control various pneumatic devices in a 18 wheeler. These switches look and feel like a toggle switch with the same size hole for panel mounts. The only difference is that you have two ports on the back of the switch: inlet and outlet with a built in bleed port. Basically in my system the air comes in and split into two inlets (one for each switch). From each of the switch outlets I run 1/4" air brake hose (200 psi rated also found in any hardware or truck stores) to my front and rear lockers. Mind you that the blue hose supplied by ARB is 5mm so along the way I convert from 1/4" to 5mm using brass coupling and hose fittings.

This system lacks all electrical parts and troubleshooting is easy: either your switch is busted or the line has a hole in it! It sounds like your rear locker isn't getting all the air into it. BTW, the 5mm blue air line is extremely durable. My front air line has been pinced between the tire and radius arm and it still holds air. I've found that a min 70 psi of air is necessary to engage and maintain the lockers. I haven't experienced any air leaks in the lockers since I installed them about two years ago. Even if I have a slow leak, it wouldn't bother me since the lockers are used for very bursts at a time and my air system can easily recover the loss.

For those of you with ARB, keep on hand extra 5mm brass compression farrels when you have to replace your blue air hose going into the diffs. Trying to salvage the farrel in the field is a royal PITA. I keep my eyes open for an all 1/4" brass fittings going into the diffs. I really need to convert to 1/4" all the way.

Sorry for the long winded note.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Hmm , the last part is interesting. I never have to carry or salavage any locker parts. Nor do I have to worry that I will have to stop the bastard from leaking on the trail. YOu cannot compare the reliability of the ARB with the detroit , its just silly. Many cars that rolled off the assembly line 30 some odd years ago did so with a "Detroit" locker in it , many of those are still going today. I have one myself that I pulled from the rear of my 70 428SCJ mustang , it will go back if I ever put the car back together and continue to serve in an abusive enviroment..

By ryan on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 04:58 pm: Edit

Is there only one Trac Tech locker available for the Disco? I know they make at least 3 models.

By hadaz on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 08:43 pm: Edit

Damn according to some people on this board maybe I should get rid of my Detroit locker. After 44000 miles I might have a mishap on the road because of the locker(those mysterious negative handling characteristics, ie "gremlins") Ho, we do not get any rain in this part of the world, maybe that is why we do not have to fear our detroit's braking because of wet streets? I know my detroit is not broken I can hear it ratcheting away!

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 06:14 am: Edit

allen,
like tick tick tick tick?
or more like tock tock tock tock?

mine is more like tock tock tock tock tock...

LOL

By Ali on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 02:46 am: Edit

Kyle,

My ARB air lines are as vulnerable as my axle breathers, and you know how well the axle breathers are routed. As far as the farrels, it's a good idea to have when one needs to mess with their lines. These are compression farrels so basically they're one shot deals. Of course they cost a hefty 40 cents or so!

Didn't you help fix Kevin's Detroit in Moab? Or was it something else in the rear end? This debate can go on forever and like everything else there're pros and cons with everything.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 02:51 am: Edit

I replaced his Diff with a detroit and no , it cannot go far. Respond to that last post with something simmilar from ARB. THen we can continue. Until then. The ARB is what it is , A "cool" toy...

Kyle

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 03:04 am: Edit

Hadaz wrote:
"After 44000 miles I might have a mishap on the road because of the locker(those mysterious negative handling characteristics, ie "gremlins") Ho, we do not get any rain in this part of the world, maybe that is why we do not have to fear our detroit's braking because of wet streets?"

Mine has gone cross country 6 times now, it should be ready to explode at any time, it's a ticking time bomb.... I thought for sure it would force me right off the road during a snowy Rocky Mts crossing last year, but it never happened. Kyle, do you think my Detroit is faulty?

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 04:08 am: Edit

Ax , I seem to suffer similar issues when I am out west. It will pull my right onto the most god awfull "roads" that can be found. I guess I will replace it with an ARB as soon as it breaks completely..

Kyle

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 04:39 am: Edit

here's something interesting...last major off-road outing was a nasty 40-mile trail from Lake Pleasant to Crown King, AZ. Every major obstacle has a wimpy bypass ("Jeep Trail" is the technical term for a bypass, I believe). I made it up & over every damn obstacle and didn't have to take any Jeep Trail to get around. This was some of the hairiest driving I've ever encountered, and I did it all without my locker (yes, Kyle, the ARB wasn't working ). We're talking off-camber, lifted wheels, deep ruts in sand & silt, gravel, bedrock holes, way steep climbs, pretty much everything but mud (damn desert). I even nearly went over on the passenger side on one climb - rear passenger endcap and bumper sacrificed themselves to keep me level. Just a little carefull driving was all that was required. It was very nice, however, to be able to pump my tires back up when I got back to the asphalt .

By ; on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 04:39 am: Edit

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 04:45 am: Edit

Blue Gill:

That just goes to show that the most important item in your truck is between the steering wheel and the seatback. Somtimes a simple driver update is all it takes to get our trucks through an obstacle.

By L_Tilly on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 04:53 am: Edit

Axel,
You just have the DL in the rear, right? Have you had many / any instances where you think you needed something up front as well? I'm trying to map out a long term (maybe 2 years total) plan for my upgrades and don't want to accidently close any options with the wrong early choice. At this point I'm considering a rear DL (with the appropriate axel upgrades, etc) and am wondering about eventually adding an air locker up front (not necessarily needed as often) if I find I still have any problems "getting around". Long term plans only, but something fun to think about.

BTW, I wanted to apologize for maybe being a bit rude. I think I met you up at Rover Fest last week and didn't properly say "Hi!". :-( On a couple of the Saturday runs I think you were bringing up the back of the pack that George was leading. My wife and I chated briefly with you a couple times but I don't think I ever identified myself from Discoweb. Of course, if you weren't there, then I guess I was chatting to another Axel. :-)

L_Tilly [email protected]
96 Disco "Beowulf" - NH, USA

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 05:27 am: Edit

Yeah, that was me leading trail runs with George. No apology necesary, everyone I ran into at Roverfest were very nice.

Yes, I only have a rear DL for now. There is a front locker in my future, but it's not on top of my list right now. I was waiting to see what would happen with the new Electrac, but it doesn't look like that will be available for us anytime soon. We'll see what happens..

By ryan on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 05:34 am: Edit

Dual TT's, sounds kinda good if you don't do any rock crawling.

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 06:00 am: Edit

TT's are not w/out a comprimise. I finally had some opportunity to get into some situations where I had to use brake modulation to get the (front) TT to engage when I wanted it to (detroit in back).

However, ARB's are obviously not w/out their own comprimises for reasons listed above and in prior posts.

Personally, I would not do dual TT's as it would be difficult to tell if the one in the rear needed some brakes to help it engage. As I keep my beak pointed out the window, I can tell if the the front driver side wheel seems to be spinning to much or not at all and I can modulate with brakes accordingly to hook up and get me moving. Of course, this provides some stress, but finess can minimize it.

Also, there are situations besides rocks when you can get cross-axled and the TT's wouldn't engage. In attica, they love to back-ho out chuncks of the trail which can turn a simple hill climb into a cross-axled mess that open diffs go nuts on and TT's would require some extra skill.

Just my 2 cents.

Tom