By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 11:18 am: Edit

I'm planning a few mods for my 96 and I'm a little surprised by what things are adding up to. I was going to go to 4:10's and upgraded axles and an ARB and it is looking like I can build a beefier Ford 9" and an ARB for the same $. Anyone else swapped in a different axle into a disco? Dutchman said no problem making axles with a 5x6.5" pattern.

By Ron on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 11:30 am: Edit

Robert,

The are many issue here but the biggys are that:

1. The front dif is in a really weird spot so you need a custom axle nothing bolts up, so custum length tubes and shafts.

2. Since you have full time 4wd it is not recommended to go to U joints in the front.

Replacing the rear is a no brainer as you can buy a Salisbury and bolt it up and it is identical to a Dana 60. You won't break the Hy tuff shafts (400) and the lockers are pretty cheap. The front gets tricky. They made Salisbury fronts too but they still have the same cv as the regular ones. A nine inch might work but to think you will save $$$ is doubtfull.

Ron

By Ron on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 11:42 am: Edit

I did a lot of reseach on this if you want to pick my brain.

I even have a set of D44s out of a scout I am saving to go under a rover some day (they will be built of course) as they make an adaptor to install a D300 or Atlas II to a LR tranny (your choice). And the neverending pursuit for Volvo C303 portal axles (direct LR bolt up).

Cheers
Ron

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 12:35 pm: Edit

Axels from a Volvo Valp, Ron? Sweet, i remember those from when I was in the army. There are a couple of clubs over in Scandinavia, they might be able to point you in the right direction. Just do a Google search on "Volvo Valp". Most of the sites will be in swedish or norwegian, though. (Which is not a problem for me.... )

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 12:43 pm: Edit

RON:
The rear diff was what I was thinking of replacing. The Rover world is very new to me, only had my disco for 6 weeks. Tell me about this Salisbury axle. I have a D60 under my scout and a detroit sitting on the shelf. What did the Salisbury axle come under and how would one come about getting one?

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Robert , I have the Jigg for doing a 9" whatever. I have thought about this a bit and I think what you want to do is just graft the 9" center into where the rovers was. really no biggie. That and getting some axles. Then you retain all the rover brakes and mounts.

Kyle

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 03:05 pm: Edit

Kyle
We thinking alike on the brakes part. I going for a Set 20 big bearing ends and SF axle set up.

My local parts guy has a 9" with 4:10 r&p for a 100.00. I think it's too good a deal to pass up.

What the market like for a used disco rear?

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 04:00 pm: Edit

Should be many around. If you graft the center you can do the front as well adn dont have to worry about gear differences..

Kyle

By Karen Jones on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 04:54 pm: Edit

LOL, this subject header is another candidate for the Troll Bait of the Year Award. My husband went off to bed saying to me, "Now go read DiscoWeb and learn something." I think I'll quote him Kyle who said:

"Should be many around. If you graft the center you can do the front as well adn dont have to worry about gear differences.."

Kyle, I don't have much a clue what you're talking about, but I'll drink to it!

Karen, clueless but trying hard to learn something!

By MTB on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Damn Karen it won't be long you will be posting in the non tech section Sex in Disco

Michael B

By Karen Jones on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 05:18 pm: Edit

MTB, I've read all and refrained thus far (G). I'm feeling the pressure though (so to speak) as this very correctly brought up middle aged lady I adore keeps asking me if David and I have "christened" the Disco yet. Don't know what's more personal, "How much did it cost?", or, "Have you DONE it yet???" LOL!

Karen, really shutting up now.... ;)

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 03:52 am: Edit

Robert,

The salisbury is a Dana 60. Only difference is that it is set up as a LR so you get 1.24in 24spline shafts but you can just bore out the case and fit 35splines and a D60 locker. Bill at Great Basin Rovers can explain it. You would find one under all 110s. From the Uk they are about $100 plus shipping. There was a guy in NE PA selling one for 600. ECR has had one for sale for 2 yeasr for 1100 (make them an offer?) I paid 200 for mine, but feel I got lucky. Best place to look or go would be through an importer. Since you are looking to rebuild you should be able to get one really cheap. The one downside is all of them up to 94 have drum brakes. You can convert easily to discs if you want. You will also have issues if you don't convert to discs with the ABS.

As far as the 9in. McNamera makes the kit to fit a nine inch carrier into a LR housing.

The biggest problem is the front axle which is really the weak link and the expensive thing to buy parts for.

Cheers
Ron

Like I said I have done a lot of research

Axel,

C303 portals (the vehicle after the laplander but everyone still calls them laplanders) I have been looking for many months (I have looked everyhere from Malaysia to canada to sweeden to former soviet republics). They were made by salisbury and have the difs in the same place as a LR axel.

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 03:54 am: Edit

ONe more thing. Since dana and rover share all the same gear ratios you can run dana stuff and rover stuff together.

Ron

3.54 3.8 4.10 4.7

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 03:58 am: Edit

"think what you want to do is just graft the 9" center into where the rovers was. really no biggie."


The only problem is then you are somewhat limited in the axle diameter you can run inside a rover (not salisbury) housing. It is (in theory) ok to run 30splines like SG or GRB extreme duty ones but it is not really good to bore it out even that much, 35 splines would be a disaster, where as that is completely ok on a Salisbury.

Ron

Then again to break even a 24spline Maxi drive is a true feat

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 04:02 am: Edit

The limiting factor on the whole thing will be the CV. The Axles you can just have made for 9" on one end and rover on the other.. Really no biggie.. Whats macnamara getting for thiers ?

Kyle

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 04:12 am: Edit

Kyle,
McNamera A lot! 1000+ I think with the vacuum locker in it. (I could be confusing stuff here but I know Bill carries them) No point really as how many RandPs have failed v how many cvs. CVs are the problem.

Cheers
Ron

What I was saying is that the rover tube housing is only so big and you cannot/should not go bigger than 24spline 1.24 or at the most 30spline 1.35 (i think they are 1.35in). So if you want bomb proof, go for a full 9in or a salisbury/D60

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 04:40 am: Edit

Why are you guys thinking that you need a non u joint frt axle for all wheel drive? There are a ton on Chebbys and Dodges with NP203's and dana 44 and 60 frt axles under them.

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 04:43 am: Edit

I know Robert,

Doable but not the best choice to run u joints in Fulltime 4wd. Bigger issue is where the dif is that gives you problems swapping stuff in the front.

Cheers
Ron

By al hang on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:03 am: Edit

I always thought the Mcnamera setup was the toyota 8". A toy diff will fit in the rover housing with little work and I've seen it survive on a truck with 38's. It's the cheapest/fastest way I've seen to get a heavy duty axle under the rover.

-al

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:12 am: Edit

I think it was Mcnamera who made the 9in conversion but like I said I am not 100% as the price made me zone out. I know they make the toyota one too.

Ron

By al hang on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:21 am: Edit

Ron the 9" carrier seems too big for the puny rover housing, but the 8" toy does fit perfectly. The toy diff is actually a whole lot stronger than I ever thought it was. I know all these different companies make this and that, but I have never seen a rover with all this stuff installed. Anyone in the states have this stuff installed??? Any pics on the web?

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:21 am: Edit

Al you didnt see it last very long...

Kyle

By al h on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:22 am: Edit

It was fine last time I spoke to him, the front diff was another story tho.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:24 am: Edit

TOY OTA , that says what needs to be said. The 9" on the other hand likes the abuse...

Kyle

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:27 am: Edit

Anyone in the states have this stuff installed???

nope, not that I know of. I have a salisbury though

Any pics on the web?
You have to look around. I dunno.

I tell you one thing though if I ever find a set of those 303 portal axles you will see them installed

Ron

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:30 am: Edit

I will look for info on the 9in conversion. My feeling is, for the price you are better getting a couple of salisburys.

Cheers
Ron

PS Maxidrive is coming out with portals for the LR. 6000 a set (ouch!).

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:33 am: Edit

Ron , I am giving you the info,,,lol All I need is the housing out of a disco and in a few hours you have a 9" housing . You will have to get axles to interchange spline but thats about it. The 9" housings from the 50s would be a perfect graft , they has smaller tubes and a smaller center section.

Kyle

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:37 am: Edit

Don't you want to know what your competition is doing

Seriously though. It is a waste of time to put a 9in center section. IMHO Home many GBR R&Ps you stripped? How many LR DLs or ARBs have blown up. CVs are the issue.

Ron

PS Kyle, I have a spare rover axle housing you can play with it you want.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:41 am: Edit

LOL , I dont wanna do it and I dont see the point. I am just saying that its pretty damn easy if you wanted to and not for a million bucks. I think in the long run you may come out a little cheaper but at the cost off some bullshit. Good 9" center sections are hard to find these days as well. Most of them were weak on the inner pinion bearing end and you can break that front one easily if you have the weak one. Whats the housing out of?

Kyle

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 07:52 am: Edit

87 RR

Ron

Also have about a few out of series trucks too.

And some D44.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 08:02 am: Edit

EEEk , no interest in the 44s , I have pitched a few of those over the years...Is the RR housing a front or rear?

Kyle

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 08:03 am: Edit

Rear.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 08:15 am: Edit

Damn , I would like a front. This four link thing needs closure...

Kyle

By Drew on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 09:57 am: Edit

Kyle
The toyota diff is alot stronger than the rover diff, but not as strong as the 9 inch. however i did get the toy third member to fit in the rover housing. the toy diff has larger bearings and more tooth contact between the gears. it also is a 30 spline 1.30 dia. axle shafts. i did break some diffs and shafts learning the best way to set everything up, but now have everything right and would not have any problems hammering the diff and axles all day long turnimg 35's. however the other problem with this set up is every time you lock the front diff you brake a cv. looking for a cheap dana 60.
Drew

By al hang on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 11:41 am: Edit

Hey Drew, have you tried the older 110 CV's? Would they make a difference?

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 11:44 am: Edit

110 cvs probably not, other than being more to replace They are the same size as the early RR cvs just one piece or something.

Ron

PS drew Bill is coming out with some CV soon (like a month)

D60 the dif won't line up too far over and you will foul on the frame (so I am told)

By Drew on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 11:50 am: Edit

no have not tried the 110 cv. really want the dana 60, because like Kyle i want a 4 link up front and the dana has the steering linkage on the front side of the axle and this should make it simpler to install the 4 link. nothing in way.
Drew

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 11:53 am: Edit

Drew,

How about taking a LR salisbury front and fitting open knuckle D60 U joints and axles. Salisburys are cheap as ramen noodles in the UK. Or better yet hack the D60 up with custom tubes to get the dif in the right spot.

Cheers
Ron

PS what type of 4 link were you thinking about?

By Drew on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 11:53 am: Edit

Ron
you might be right about the dana 60 diff hitting the frame thats why i am looking for a cheap one to learn from.
Drew

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 11:57 am: Edit

Drew,

Doug M. has gotton a D60/D70 combo he is fitting to his D90. With the Atlas II or D300 conversion kit they should fit but there is still the frame issue. I think the T-box conversion is the way to go. The other thing is that with a D60/salis front you have a really short front drive shaft unless you move the front axle forward.

Cheers
Ron

By Drew on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 12:03 pm: Edit

Correct me if i am wrong but i hear that you can break the axles in the salisbury just as easy as the standard rover axles, also even through they look the same the salisbury diff is not as strong as the dana. as for the 4 link i am still thinking about it do you have any ideas.
Drew

By Drew on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 12:07 pm: Edit

Ron
i would also like to change the t box, but what i want to do is add a second tcase or a klune undrive. however that is on a wish list when i get enough spare money.
Drew

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 12:17 pm: Edit

Correct me if i am wrong but i hear that you can break the axles in the salisbury
just as easy as the standard rover axles, also even through they look the same
the salisbury diff is not as strong as the dana.

The latter point it not correct to my knowledge although it would be irrelavant anyway as you would be replacing it with a locker identical to one in a D60.

The former is correct as the axles are the same as stock 24 spline rover axles but converting a salisbury to D60 35 spline axles is easy as the housing is the same. New hubs and a bore, just as you would on an early 30spline D60

Cheers
Ron

By Ron on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 12:18 pm: Edit

You could get close to the same ratio with an Atlas as you could with a dual t case set up.

Ron

By ryan on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 12:26 pm: Edit

How about a GM 14-bolt rear-end. Some think it is stronger than the Dana 60.

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 12:39 pm: Edit

can anyone point me to good, brief on-line reading about diffs & axles? I think I have the spline thing figured out, but what's the advantage of upgrading to 9" housing? what are benefits of dana 60? etc. understand stronger is better, but how/why are they stronger? just bigger, beefier, & badder?

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 12:42 pm: Edit

The Dana 60 front and the four link are fairly straight forward. You just have to drop some lines on what you have now and get the basic positioning of the center section in the tubes. Then decide what ends you want and set the jig up and weld em on . I dont think Drew has a frame issue at all cause he has like 19 miles of lift.

Kyle

By Drew on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 12:43 pm: Edit

The atlas as i understand it the lowest ratio you can get is 4.3 to 1, the standard rover box is 3.3 to 1. if you put a klune underdrive with 4 to 1 between the tcase and tranny, with 4.10 r&p your crawl ratio is like 150 to 1, thats what i you like to have. however i don't think they make the parts to bolt all that stuff together yet.
the 14 bolt Gm axle would be nice i think the axle shafts are 1.50 inch dia.35 spline, but they don't make one for the front do they. right now that is where my problem is cv joints.
Drew

By Drew on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Ron
where can i get a dana 300 tcase conversion kit.
Drew

By kev on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 08:02 pm: Edit

salbury i read earlly post saying drum brakes yes but latter ones are disc so the whole thing will bolt up. if you buy earlly one with drum you get ears made up and convert to disc you will loose about 2 inches in the all important ground clearance war

By Ron on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 03:55 am: Edit

Drew,
You can get the conversion kit through SG. It is from advanced adaptors and should be available from them direct soon. It will take either a D300 or an Atlas. You could (if you figure out the frame issue in front) bolt up a D60 from and corp 14 bolt rear using the t-case adaptor. I was not quite following you on the underdrive/dual T-case thing. With 38s I was assuming you would be running 4.7s, 4.88s or even maybe 5.34s. I was think dual normal t-cases (non-rover) so like 2x 2.34 or so.

If you buy earlly one with drum you get ears made up and convert to disc you will loose about 2 inches in the all important ground clearance war

Huh? I don't get it. Please let me know what you are talking about. You mean using RR discs or using regular salisbury discs.

Ron

By Drew on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 03:14 pm: Edit

Ron
i am running 4.10 gears in the axles right now with 35's. i could/should have lower gears, but the speedo is 1/2 mile off with the gps right now so i am going to leave it be for now. what did you not understand about the dual cases?
i didn't make the post about the salisbury axle and the brakes. however i didn't understand it either.
Drew

By Drew on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Ron
thanks for the info about the t. case conversion for the atlas. talked to SG today. they will know more in a couple of weeks.
Drew

By Ron on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 03:31 am: Edit

what did you not understand about the dual cases?

I thought you meant like a normal non rover T-case and a divorsed NP 205 or something. I was really just spacing. on it.

Ron

PS I checked the brakes have no effect on ground clearance.

By quaddrive on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 04:51 am: Edit

Drew,
Are you running original cvs or aftermarket?
The std toyota diff is stronger than the std rover diff but they still break with big tyres etc. The arbs in toy and rover are about the same strength but a maxidrive in a rover is quite a lot stronger than an arb toyota. The toyota axles are 1.3" but made of std type steels, whereas maxidrive axles at 1.25" of Hytuf are a lot stronger than the toy axles and more resistant to fatigue.
Toy cvs are weaker than rover ones. Are you running the 32 or 23 spline cvs? Was talking to a guy over here in Aus and he said that he got maxidrive to make up a stub shaft for the outer part of the cv and with this he has since twisted off the output shaft of his steering box but not the cvs.
Regards
Giles Lilley
[email protected]

By Drew on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 05:16 am: Edit

Giles Lilley
the axles that i am running are custom made very strong, as for the cv they 32 spline stock rover.
Drew

By quaddrive on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 12:45 am: Edit

Hi Drew,
The main problem with the 32 spline cvs is that they are only 1.03" where the axle enters them whereas the 23 spline is 1.21". The 23 spline cvs are much stronger as they have the larger axle which spreads the torque over a much larger s/a of the cv and so reduces the effective stress that the star receives, the star is most often after the race to cause the failure.
I run the 110 county cvs and i also run 38's and i know another guy with the same setup and tyres who has been running longer than me with no cv failures. And he drives extremely hard(4 wheel burnouts on pavement).
If you get some axles made to suit the 23 spline cvs you may find them strong enough and still have the great ground clearance afforded by the rover diff as apposed to the bulky dana 60.
Just thoughts
Giles Lilley
[email protected]