By Jose A Cabrera (Jcabrera) on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 06:36 pm: Edit

I installed 2" RoverTym springs on my 96 Disco but I left the stock shocks for financial reasons. Now, it is time to replace the shocks. Obviously, the stock shocks do not give as much travel as OME or any other will do.
Question 1: What shocks do you recommend?
Question 2: What do I have to do to my springs?
Question 2.B: If I gain more travel from the shocks, is there the possibility of my springs to pop right out?

PS: I have an ARB and Warn winch (8K Lbs.)

Thanks!

By Perrone Ford on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 07:17 pm: Edit

Jose,

Congratulations on your purchase! The choice of shocks is pretty tough. I'm going through the same thing right now since I have my same old OME MD shocks with the RTE 3" HD springs.

I've been on the phone with OME and Bilstein all last week trying to figure out the right path. John at RTE is using Bilstein 7100 and seems to be happy with them for both highway and off-road use. Bisltein have recently released the 5100 series shock which is a non-adjustable version of the 7100 series. I think this is the path I am taking. The shocks can be valved either stiffer or looser than the OEM style Bilsteins.

Other options include the OME shocks which seem to be nice, but are not long travel. Or the Rancho shocks which are available in long travel, and are adjustable, but they are not as smooth riding as the other choices.

No matter which shocks you choose, you won't have to do anything to your springs unless you choose long travel. If you choose to get 12" or 14" travel shocks in the back, do what Mike Bauer did. His setup is nice, or you could retain the springs for better overall balance in the rocks. Kind of a personal preference.

Also in the mix if you go to long travel shocks, is the replacement of the brake lines. Don't do this, and you'll find yourself with no brakes! Mike B. studied all this and came up with a really nice setup. Have a look around his truck (since he's near you) and get some ideas. Others here will have some good ideas for you. There are so many options for Disco owners now, you really do have to think about it a lot.

Keep in mind the terrain you travel and how important highway feel is to you. What works in Moab may not be best for Orlando, and those who only drive on the weekend, or trailer their trucks may have very different requirements than those using their truck as a daily driver. Take your time, and do it right...

Good luck man!

-P

By Jose A Cabrera (Jcabrera) on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Thanks Perrone, I actually got the springs about three weeks after the trip we took with you guys in Northern Florida. I do not want to go long travel ( I do not want to spend the money in additional accessories: brake lines, etc... I am also looking at BF M/T's). I just want something that will give me an additional travel without risking the springs to come right out. What's your opinion?

By Jose A Cabrera (Jcabrera) on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 07:46 pm: Edit

PS: Perrone, I moved to Orange County California last May. Work stuff.

By Perrone Ford on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 01:43 am: Edit

Holy smokes man!

I didn't realize you have moved. Sorry about that. Well, if you are not looking for longer shocks, I'd probably recommend the OME HD if you aren't too worried about keeping all sway out of the truck. If you really hustle the truck and want to have the best highway handling, then the OEM Bilstein is going to be best. I hear the Edelbrock IAS shock is good too, but I can't find anyone running them to get an opinion.

If you pop over to the Spanish Trail site in the tech section, and look at the choosing shock guide, you will see that I was able to get some proprietary information on the shocks from Bilstein and OME. Hopefully that will hep in your quest.

Good luck man, and enjoy Cali. (where is orange county anyway?)

-P

By Arthur D on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 05:13 am: Edit

Ome HD? Are you talking about springs or shocks now? I haven't seen OME shocks in different ratings, only their springs. Also, aren't the OEM shocks Woodheads? What do you mean by OEM Bilsteins? Am I missing something?

By Murray (Cdnrvr) on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 05:15 am: Edit

Jose - I have the 2" springs as well and went with the Rancho shocks, if I had to do it all over again I think I might go with the Bilstein's for a better ride ... Rancho's will give you more travel (depending on the shock you get) but I think for the amount of times I could use that little bit more of travel ... it's not worth the rougher ride.

Murray

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 05:48 am: Edit

OEM Bilsteins=Stock replacement Bilsteins, what you would get from Atlantic British or GBR if you asked for a set of Bilsteins for a Disco.

Alex

By Perrone Ford on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 05:52 am: Edit

Arthur,

The OME shocks are available in medium duty or heavy duty. The HD is vavled to match their OME HD springs, and likewise with the MD shocks.

The OEM shocks are Woodheads, and when I said OEM "style" bilsteins, I meant their direct replacement shocks. Bilstein also market a dedicated range of off-road shocks (5100, 6100, 7100, 9100) that are usually not sold for on-road trucks.

Sorry for any confusion.

-P

By Jose A Cabrera (Jcabrera) on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 08:09 am: Edit

I think I understand all said here. But, what is the longest travel shock I can get without having to do any additional modification to my Disco such as drop cones, extended brake lines, etc.?
P- I am in Irvine.

By Perrone Ford on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 08:41 am: Edit

The OME shocks are a little longer than stock. This might be suitable. Certainly suitable for those trucks running swaybars. In order to get an ACCURATE measurement, you'll have to jack your truck until your springs get loose, then measure the distances between the shock mounts.

If you go to shocks long enough to unseat your springs (or close to it), your problem won't be unseating springs, it will be bottoming out the long shocks under compression. If you are looking to avoid things like extended mounts, longer bumpstops, etc., then just get the OEM style HD OME shocks or OEM style Bilsteins. its a LOT simpler and cheaper.

If you really want to push this further contact me via email and I'll call you and tell you how to figure all this stuff out. It's not hard, but you need to be accurate so you need to go measure up your truck.

-P

By Jose A Cabrera (Jcabrera) on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 08:53 am: Edit

Perrone, thanks for your last posting... it is very clear now. I'll do some measuring and keep you posted.

By John Lee on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 11:27 am: Edit

"The OME shocks are available in medium duty or heavy duty. The HD is vavled to match their OME HD springs, and likewise with the MD shocks."

I don't think this is quite accurate, although it is not "wrong".

OME shocks do come in several versions. This is probably a surprise to most consumers, since almost all OME retailers list only "OME shocks" for sale and don't specify which shocks they carry and sell to you.

All of the lengths of the OME shocks are identical and the only difference is in the valving. For the rear shocks, one can choose among the N26, N46, and N44 shocks. The N26's are the softest, N46's are medium, and the N44's are the firmest. The difference between the three shocks is slight. The N44's, the firmest of the three rear shocks, are not still not as stiff as the replacement Bilsteins.

For the front, only one OME front shock was available until recently. The N45F is the standard front OME shock. OME has only recently released the N115 shock, which is a firmer front shock.

There are also the OME LTR shocks, but these are different animals. The LTR's can be adjusted by inserting different amounts of air pressure into them. My LTR's contain 120 PSI now (20 PSI more than OME"s recommended maximum), and they are substantially firmer than the N44's. The LTR's are top notch all around and my favorite shocks.

It isn't necessary or even desirable to match the N44 shocks with only HD rear springs, or the N46 shocks with the MD rear springs, etc. In fact, we recommend the N44 rear shocks to all of our customers as a matter of course, whether they fit MD or HD rear springs. We prefer the slightly firmer valving of the N44's and believe it's a better overall performer than the N26 and N46 regardless of spring rate fitted.

Thus far we have no experience with the new N115 front shocks. We have ordered them from OME and will have something to say about them when we know more.

You can find all of the above information on the OME shock guide on the EE site at: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/shockguidenew.htm

By Perrone Ford on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 01:42 pm: Edit

John,

Thanks for the clarification on the OME shocks. I've not had them on a Dyno to test the valving and I run the MD on my truck which is a little too soft for most people's taste (especially with the sway bars removed).

Interesting you like the LTR so much. What else have you compared them to? I've not had a chance to ride in a truck with any so I am wondering how they feel.

I've spent hours on the phone providing feedback to OME in hopes they would do shocks for Rovers with 2" and 3" lifts after they expressed interest but so far nothing has come of it. For stock height trucks I think the OME shocks are terrific, but for lifted trucks, especially 3+ or higher, they shocks really are too short.

Please let me know how the N115 is when you get it. I'd love to hear about it even though I can't run it.

-P

By John Lee on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 03:34 pm: Edit

Perrone,

"Interesting you like the LTR so much. What else have you compared them to? I've not had a chance to ride in a truck with any so I am wondering how they feel."

Most people dismiss the LTR's because they're the same length as regular OME's and don't give sexy flex, but I think they're some of the best shocks available for the Land Rover. The LTR's utilize the stock shock mounts, which do not break. The LTR's are also very HD in construction and will take more punishment than a standard OME or Bilstein shock.

I much prefer the reliability of the LTR's to some sexy suspension system. Even the flexiest of suspension systems will give but a fraction of the traction that lockers will, so I don't think it's prudent to fit an unreliable suspension in search of more traction when lockers can provide tons more traction than any suspension system with no loss of reliability (and even greater reliability depending on which lockers you use).

I've compared the ride of LTR's to vehicles fitted with other OME shocks, stock shocks, and Bilsteins. I haven't driven any vehicles with racing shocks fitted, so I can't compare there. The LTR's feel really good, but they're not dramatically different from other shocks in feel, at least not for most offroading. If you're doing an event like Nevada Trophy where you're almost racing for long periods, the superiority of the LTR's will become apparent.

The LTR's seem to hold up to age and heavy use better. We routinely replace older OME and Woodhead shocks on customers' vehicles, and the old shocks feel very worn out. The valving is very squishy and the damping is uneven along the entire length of the shock's travel and you can hear bubbles squirting through the shocks' valves. On my LTR's, which are about two years old, the damping is still very firm and smooth along the entire length of the shocks' travel.

I like the LTR's primarily because of their heavy duty construction and the fact that they're rebuildable. OME sells an LTR rebuild kit, and OME tech bulletins list all of the part numbers for every LTR component.

"I've spent hours on the phone providing feedback to OME in hopes they would do shocks for Rovers with 2" and 3" lifts after they expressed interest but so far nothing has come of it. For stock height trucks I think the OME shocks are terrific, but for lifted trucks, especially 3+ or higher, they shocks really are too short."

I doubt OME will come out with longer shocks. Fitting longer shocks with the OME springs will cause the springs to unseat. I don't think OME is in the market for retainers or cones. OME could come with 3" springs and shocks, but I doubt OME would do that for liability reasons. Time will tell.

Fitting OME shocks with the standard springs is not a good idea. The OME shocks are about 1" longer than the stock Woodheads at full extension, and this is long enough to cause the springs to unseat. When I was running stock springs on my D90 with the LTR's, the rear springs would unseat at full flex. I fitted retainers to solve the problem.

By Jay Allen on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Hey Perrone- Orange County is home to the mysterious Contra group of Land Rover owners, users and sellers of Lightforce products...
Good luck with your supsension choices, sorry I don't have any info. Perrone, you should do an extended road trip out here sometime...-Jay

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 04:03 pm: Edit

EEEK , al the boys out there running the F-16 lights as well eh? I didnt see any on the Ra Ros in Moab......Maybe they melted off?


Kyle

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 04:58 pm: Edit

john,

is it easy to change pressure on your LTR's out in the field? when we were in moab they were really rough on that flat washboard section.


thanks
rob

By Jose A Cabrera (Jcabrera) on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 06:24 pm: Edit

Come on guys.... please allow some room for the ignorants like me. All this information is great but I still have not been able to conclude an answer. What shocks can I use without having to do any additional mod?...sorry to so ignorant!

By Perrone Ford on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 06:46 pm: Edit

Jose,

You can use:

OME MD/HD shocks
OME LTR shocks
Bilstein shocks
Edelbrock shocks (call Atlantic British)

All of these are longer (not sure about Edelbrock) than stock but not long enough to cause spring problems, or to necessitate brake line changes.

-P

By John Lee on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 08:17 pm: Edit

Rob,

"is it easy to change pressure on your LTR's out in the field? when we were in moab they were really rough on that flat washboard section."

That roughness you felt when you were driving the Milk Truck on Hole In The Rock wasn't the valving on the LTR's. Rather, it was the rear shocks bottoming out. I had the home-made shock extensions attached to the shocks, and the rear springs were 751's (front HD OME springs). Those springs are way too short for rear use, but it was the only springs I had lying around right before Moab. Obviously, not a good combination of shock and spring.

If the LTR's weren't extended and the 764's were in the back (the set-up I run now), I think you would have been quite pleased with the ride.

Adjusting the pressure inside the shocks is easy, but it's hard to get things right in the field. You can adjust the pressure through a simple schrader valve on the end of the reservoir. The hard part is that you are supposed to adjust pressure with the shocks fully extended. It's hard to do this in the field. If you know the lengths of your shocks, you can extrapolate the required pressure by the length of the shock when your vehicle is standing. For example, if your shocks are at half length and you want 100 psi, I suppose you can pressurize your shocks with 200 psi to get a ballpark correct pressure.

Frankly, I think all of this adjustment in the field is unnecessary. I always crack up when I see my trail buddies with Rancho's and SG's Fox shocks get on their knees to adjust their shocks. The LTR's give a very good ride on rough terrain and on road, just like the standard OME shocks. If you want a generally firmer ride, just put in more air. If you want a generally softer ride, just put in less air. I like the 120 psi setting, but I previously ran at 80 and 100 psi, and was happy with both settings. I'm experimenting right now just for the sake of it more than unhappiness with ride. The ride is still more supple than with Bilsteins, even at 120 psi.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 04:33 am: Edit

ahh,, ok... thats right. i knew there was a reason it was rough.

i dont ever adjust my ranchoes so i know what you mean.

i will have to come out and take another ride and let you know my opinion on the new setup.

rob

By Daniel on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 05:26 am: Edit

Jose,
I'm not nearly as advanced as these guys myself. I just ordered a set of Procoms ES9000 for my truck.
They were pretty highly recommended on the Rovers North BBS a little while back. I use my truck as a daily driver with some off roading. Nothing spectacular yet, so I don't require the upgrades others have. The Procomps are supposed to perform overall as well as stock (which is STILL better than most other 4x4's) or better. Also, they are lifetime warrantied even for normal wear as long as you havn't banged up the shock body. Again, depending on your appplication, these might work for you. I got the set from 4x4 wholesaler in CA for something like $160.00 w/boots and shipped. I just told them that I'm completely stock and they did the rest.
800-421-1050
p.s. I have not recieved them yet, I'll let you know what I think once they're on.

By Jose A Cabrera (Jcabrera) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 07:17 am: Edit

Daniel,
I had not thought about ProComp ( I use their lights); I just never hear them mentioned around the LR conversation when the topic is shocks. See, the problem I have is that I changed my coil spring and I'd like to obtain a little more travel when off-roading. The problem I have is that if I get too much travel, my brake lines might brake and we don't want that; also, the coil springs might pop out and we don't want that either. But thanks for the idea I just have to measure how much extension they have compared to stock shock. Please keep me posted when you get them and install them I might still be looking at shocks. Thanks (thecabreras@msn.com)

By Murray (Cdnrvr) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 09:55 am: Edit

Jose,

If I were you, I would factor in the brake line extenders. I have the same springs as you do and not even flexxing to the point of where the springs would unseat, my brakelines were getting pretty damn tight. If you disconnect your sway bars and get shocks any longer than stock, you are going to run into problems. John at RT can set ya up.

I have the Rancho 9234's in the rear and 9207 in the front. Although I am pleased with the setup, I question if the Bilstein's would have been more appropriate for me ... I am just basing that on threads I have read here and it comes down to what you use your truck for and what you are looking for.

As for reseating your springs, I use and have scene the RT cones in action and am very pleased with the results. They work, are cheap, easy to install and quiet. The retainers work too but I have less experience with them. I am not going to open that can of worms ... that is what the KKC is all about and frankly, I got what works for me and I am happy with it. I am not going to lose any sleep over the cones/retainer/flexy crap question ... my set up works for me.

I think Perrone, John, Alex, etc. has given you enough info - you are going to just need to determine what is going to work best for you. It took me a few months to finally do it - once you do, I am sure you will be pleased with results!

Murray

By Daniel on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 10:04 am: Edit

Jose,
I just called 4x4 wholesalers to ask about the stiffness question that someone else brought up on another thread. They are a good group of guys over there. They said if I don't like the ride, I can exchange the shock. I'd give them a call and let them field your particular questions about extension and travel.
I'd never heard about them either, but there was a pretty good review over on the Rovers North
BBS, so I figured I'd give them a try.
I'll keep you posted.
Daniel

By Danno on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Jose & Daniel,
when i did my 3" RTE springs and cones, i put in ES9000's. they replaced the bilstiens (and OME HD/MD springs) that i had in. my ride is a bit firmer, but that may be due to the firmer springs. the ES9000's are similar to the Ranch 5000's, except that the ES's use nitrogen and not the cellular gas. haven't got a chance to wheel the setup yet, but will in the next few weekends. i e-mailed Jeff (jeffb@explorerprocomp.com) at ProComp for my needs and here are the part #'s to use with the RTE cones/shock mounts.

Part numbers 924560 front (24.5" extended)
929500 rear (29.5" extended)

BTW, Procomp's and Rancho's, (and a few other shock manufacturer's) are made by the same company.

Danno

ps. Wise Owl in canada can help with what procomps can work with stock sized shocks
<wiseowl@direct.ca>