Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	17 inch Tyres & Air Suspension?	1		08/28 10:59am

By Mike J. (Mudd) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 09:08 am: Edit

Hey my friends,
I recently bought a "quick air" pump to re-inflate after wheeling. I figured it would be one of the best since it is small tough and $250! It Takes about 1 minute to pump about 3 lbs. of pressure. If I deflate to 25lbs. from 45lbs. thats half an hour to inflate. the pump gets hot but is tough enough to handle it because of its aluminum mounts and blah blah blah. Is there anything faster, cheaper, better? Thanks, Mike

By Ron on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 09:11 am: Edit

CO2 tank or just don't air down (ron's solution)

Ron

By Mike J. (Mudd) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 01:57 pm: Edit

has anyone used anything else?

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 02:01 pm: Edit

None of the electric air compressors will air up a tire quickly without a tank. None will air up tireS quickly without a very LARGE tank.

If you want to inflate your tires from 25 to 45 lb. in a minute or 2 w/o using a CO2 tank, you'll have go to a belt driven compressor off the engine. To my knowledge, no one in the US has put one on a Disco. Feel like breaking some new ground?

Alex

By Mike J. (Mudd) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 02:40 pm: Edit

ahhh No. I guess my quick air is going to be alright after all. but I'm still open to sugestions!

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 02:44 pm: Edit

Get an air tank, mount it between the frame rails under the truck. At the risk of offending all the SG haters here, Safari Gard sells (or used to) one that fits. I'M SURE THERE ARE OTHERS.

That will at least get you a head start on your first tire, or partially air up all 4. I guess you will have to permanently mount the compressor though.

Alex

By Mike B. on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 03:05 pm: Edit

I used to run one of those plug in air compressors. However, if I had any kind of a leak in the tire, the pump did not have enough capacity to fill up the tire so I could find the leak. Also, the air pump kept overheating and then cutting off. After a few 'bad' experiences, I decided to shop around for something better.

I now have a CO2 tank from PowerTank. It works great. I can aire up my tires from 20 lbs to 45 lbs in about a minute. I also use it to run power tools on occasion.

There are two down sides to running CO2 tanks; 1.) they can only be used in the upright position and 2.) they eventually have to be refilled.

The PowerTank is one of the best that I have found because of the quality of the regulator. It has a pressure over-ride for when too much pressure builds up in the tank. You can also adjust the regulator from 0 to 160 lbs. So if you are in a hurry, you can crank up the pressure and refill very quickly. It is also good for running power tools and reseating tires.

I have also seen others with Nitrogen tanks. Nitrogen does not get cold like the CO2, however, the yield from a single tank is much lower with a Nitrogen tank than a CO2 tank. You can get an entire Nitrogen setup from many local welding supply stores.

It costs me about $10.00 to refill the CO2 tank. I've used it quite a few times and I still have a lot left (over 1,000 lbs of pressure in the tank).

Thanks,
Mike B.

P.S. - I don't work for Power Tank, blah, blah, blah.

By Marc on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 03:13 pm: Edit

do you have a link for powertank?

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 03:30 pm: Edit

Powertank: http://www.powertank.com

After you look at that and see the prices, go to http://www.trail-air.com for the less expensive version of the same thing. You will save 100 bucks or more for an equivalent setup.

I use one and like it. The guy who owns the business is also a friend of mine, but I wouldn't recommend something shitty no matter who it was. Check it out and see for yourself. He also is going to be using smaller regulators than the one in the picture (small like powertank).

One of the other things about CO2 tanks is mounting. I think trail-air has this problem licked with the mounting brackets they sell. I will be posting to the tech section soon as soon as I install mine. The 10lb tank will mount nicely in the rear. I plan to remove one of the plastic things for a bin and slide the tank right in there...

Tom

By jay caragay (Jcaragay) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 03:37 pm: Edit

Since we're talking compressors, I went on a trip last year and punctured my tire. A fellow with a Hummer handily used his compressor to re-inflate my tires.

It didn't take too long and seemed to work well without a reservior tank.

Any ideas on what the Hummer compressor is all about and if it can be fitted to a D1?

By Chris Browne on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 03:45 pm: Edit

Take a look at Four wheeler a recent edition tested all the various common compressors ARB, Quickair 1,2 and three etc etc, Good reading.
lots of objective data, including time to fill tires, amp drawing/psi, cfm etc etc
One recommendation is to have a two gallon tank installed.

By Murray (Cdnrvr) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 04:25 pm: Edit

Had the same experience with the portable 12 volt air compressors ... just go with the trail-air and save yourself time and headaches down the road.

Murray

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 04:27 pm: Edit

there was a thread on the d-90 list a few days ago on compressors, including who OEMs the hummer on-board air. check it out.

Alex

By jay caragay (Jcaragay) on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 06:51 pm: Edit

Alex-

Where can I find the d90 list?

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 01:13 am: Edit

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/d90

You might have to join the list to read messages, I'm not sure.

Alex

By kev on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 01:52 am: Edit

air a few guys i know buy aircon pump from scrap yard $10.00 and run it of your engine you can run your arb lockers of it as well it is on my list easy to do

By Mike J. (Mudd) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 02:40 am: Edit

looks like trail air is the ticket! Alluminum or steel?

By Ali on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 03:25 am: Edit

Those of you with sliders, why not just drill and tap a 1/4" npt hole and install "push in" fittings? Assuming of course your slider ends are capped. This way you have two sliders worth of air reservoirs. If memory serves me correct, my sliders combined produced a total volume of at least 3.5 gallons. This is plenty of reservoir capacity to let the a/c cool down a bit. Too much volume will cause the a/c to cycle more frequently and stay on longer - then you're back to square one.

Ultimately, CO2 tank or engine driven a/c is the ideal solution. For ARB equipped vehicles you'll need an onboard air solution. I bought an old Tecumseh (spell?) Air Conditioning Compressor from a junk yard that I'm planning on installing in the rangie. I think it went in a Ford vehicle back in the day. I'll post pics when the project is done...er actually I haven't started it yet! Engine driven a/c's truly produce enough CFM to maintain a less hungry air tool on the trail. I have a friend who uses this system out in the farm. Jeep owners use this quite frequently - of course they have more room than us!

By Chris Merritt (Smokinbro) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 03:52 am: Edit

I know a few J**P guys. THey just took an old air conditioning compressor driven by the belt. Works great, powers air tools and airs up tires. WIththe Disco, I don't know if there is a spare spot for another compressor. You moight have to loset he air conditioning!

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 04:54 am: Edit

Mike - The only real difference between aluminum or steel is the wieght and cost. It's up to you...

Tom

By JEEPETR on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 05:26 am: Edit

Hello Jay,

The Compressor in the Hummer is manufactured by Thomas. You can Purchase the same compressor direct from them, or through Currie Enterprises, or through Ready Air. I have the 1/3 H.P. Ready Air (Thomas Compressor in the Hummer) in my Defender. It puts out 1.1 CFM at 75 PSI, pretty good for an Electric. Its pricy, but like anything else, you get what you pay for. It's an industrial grade compressor, set up with on/off pressure switch, control relay, and pop off valve in one package. I don't think you will find the Quick Airs to be the same quality and ultimate durability...

Check them out at www.readyair.com

~Scott T.
'95 D-90 (JEEPETR)
'96 Dicovery (5-Speed)

By jay caragay (Jcaragay) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 05:48 am: Edit

Thanks Alex for the link,

And thanks Scott for the info!

I really was impressed with the performance of the Thomas (Hummer) compressor. $595 is a pricey figure - do you know of any retailers that have the unit for less?

Or if there are enough people interested maybe we can approach them about a group buy?

By Discosaurus on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 06:10 am: Edit

The QuickAir 3 is a twin cylinder pump that can pump a pretty good volume. According to the ads, it can pump a 33" from flat to 30psi in under 2 minutes. Of course, they also cost $400+.

I wouldn't bother with any of the single cylinder small volume pumps without a tank. Speed equals air flow volume at a given pressure - something a small displacement compressor won't do.

BTW, the AC compressor on the Disco will work just fine to pump air, as long as you plumb up an oiler and oil recovery system. That unit requires lube oil in the compression stream. Of course, that means no more AC...

keith
discosaurus

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 06:19 am: Edit

keith, the oiler thing is what kept me from doing the AC compressor thing.

so now i just keep the ARB compressor as back up and use the trail air tank as main compressed air source.

By Discosaurus on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 06:27 am: Edit

...I just hate to have those big air tanks banging around inside, taking up valuable beer cooler room.

I told my daughter (who wheels with me all the time...) that air tanks could blow up if filled up to a high pressure and then carted across 12,000 ft passes. She spent days with her eyes glued to the pressure gauge.

heheheh

keith
discosaurus

By JEEPETR on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 06:33 am: Edit

Hey Keith,

Quick-Air3 does move alot of volume, but is limited only to tire inflation due to its low max pressure. This is fine for most, just want people that may want to run an ARB off of the system to know it won't give them enough pressure. Even so, I don't know how exactly the two compare in volume, as the quick Air 3 only gives a 0 PSI rating, and the Ready Air an @75 PSI rating. Remember only to compare CFM's at the same pressure, as they drop drastically with increased pressures. And I still stand by the statement that the Thomas (Ready-Air) compressor is better built, and will likely last longer. Just consider the duty cycle and weight of each. Quick Air 3 is rated 40 minutes @40 PSI and what, 11lbs? Thomas is continuous duty and is 34lbs...

~Scott T.
'95 D-90 (JEEPETR)
'96 Discovery (5-Speed)

By L_Tilly on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 07:56 am: Edit

Discosaurus,
You are EVIL...but that is SO much a good idea. In the Air Force I used to work on a 747 that was converted over to communications / airborne command post. We had stairs leading from our compartment into what would be the lower rear luggage area of a civilian 747 (it was where most of our equipment was mounted). You could go down there and look at the large cargo door and see a nice gap of light around almost the entire door and you could feel and hear the air hissing out of it when we were at pressurized altitudes. Personnally, that facinated me. It was always fun to point out to point it out to new people or gov't civies we were giving tours to and try to hide your grin when you see their white-knuckle grip on anything nearby the whole time you're giving them the dog-and-poney show.

Serious question, though...for those under-body mounted tanks. Any concern from those of you using them that you may come down wrong on a rock / stump? Most high pressure compressed gasses don't react well to crushing impacts. Do they hide away behind a skid plate, cross bar, or such?

L_Tilly lnctilly@mediaone.net
96 Disco "Beowulf" - NH, USA

By Discosaurus on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 10:28 am: Edit

I would put a small tank inside the skid plate frame of my $G front bumper. Perfect place for a 5-10 L tank.

FYI - an air tank, pumped to ~110PSI at 8000' only increases to ~115-120PSI at 12,000'. I'd be wary of cranking up the pressure here in Chicago and driving non-stop to the top of Pikes Peak. I guess you could figure out the pressure increase exactly...

Am I the only one who stops at the top of I70 west of DEN to let air out of my sea level tires ??

keith
discosaurus

By Chris Browne on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:33 pm: Edit

www.extremeoutback.com/index.html

Founds this by accident this morning

By Ali on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 08:48 am: Edit

Keith,

Regarding the "oiler" situation, here's what I'd do: install an oiler on the upstream of the "low" side of the a/c unit. Install a air/oil separator on the downstream "high" side. Make sure to get a separator bowl that has a hose connection. Then connect this hose back to the oiler. This way your a/c is getting lubed air, but this air is cleaned on the outlet side. This oil is trapped and reused again. Make sense?

Since most a/c units have built in oil reservoirs into the cylinders, you won't really need an external oiler. Just the separator is all you should need. In theory....!

Regading "high pressure tanks outside the vehicle", I'm assuming you're referring to the sliders. These sliders can only be pumped to around 100psi due to the output of the compressors. If you end up knocking a hole in it, shouldn't be a big problem. You'll have a hissing sound as the air escapes. You're not mounting ocxy/acetylyne tanks so explosions shouldn't be a factor here. As you know I thrash my sliders religiously!

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 09:19 am: Edit

yep - just like that.

Although, I think the R-134a system used in the 96+ Disco needs an oiler. AFAIK, the compressor doesn't have an oil sump. When you recharge, you need to add oil into the system.

By Ali on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 09:47 am: Edit

true there's no separate oil sump. However, there is an oil sump inside our a/c units. There's a fill hole on the side and with a specially built dipstick, you can measure the level of the oil. Of course you'll need to have the pistons in the right orientation and the system has to be empty of any refrigerant! In order to save time, the a/c shops totally evacuate the a/c system (freon+oil) and then the recharging process includes adding a predetermined amount of ratio of freon to oil.

Pobably too much unnecessary info.

By Mike J. (Mudd) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 02:40 pm: Edit

so the 10lb tank sounds a lot easier and better!