By bombadier on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 09:35 am: Edit

thought i'd come check you guys out from the jeep forum. some sweet rigs on this site. i appreciate what LR is, and i might even own one someday. I will never get ride of my jeep (XJ), in fact i plan on adding a 2001 in about 2 years.

the more i get into the sport the more would like to get a LR project truck. For me it looks like a 97 D90, but my question is what do you guys think. i know it might be a little bias but how do those defenders compare to your rigs. i know they stopped selling them in the states, but who knows what the future will bring. so if anyone has a spare minute out there; what are the main performance differences between defenders and your LR rigs. Thanks for the info.

By Ron on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 10:11 am: Edit

Hi,

Build your own rover from scratch. Its basically a big mechano set. That way you can have whatever you want. $$$ for a 97 D90 is ridiculous

A disco will keep up with a d90 as it is basically the same underneeth but the real limit is the size of tire you can fit on one. D90 can run 35s with almost no lift and 37s with 3-4in of lift. Disco I 2in lift gets you 32s, 33 require some real work. A disco II you can run 32 stock and 33s witha 2in lift.

Ron

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 10:15 am: Edit

Well first buying a 97 D90 will not be cheap. It will cost some money as most of the ones that I have seen are $36K to $45K. Essentially power train and such are the same as the Disco. Of course the shorter wheel base, softop (which I really like), comes stock with 32 inch tires (Disco has 29s), and I think different gearing due to tire size. No leather or other creature comforts. It was built for the purpose of getting beat up on the trails and getting you through them. I'm not an expert so I'm sure some one else would be able to answer questions better then I can. That is what I think though. The Disco is just a longer wheel base version of a D90 with some leather, wood, and some power windows.

By Simon E. Arenas (Simon) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 10:21 am: Edit

man.. they do not compare

Discos are a different animal all together, Discos are for long hauls expeditions, while the mechanics are the same as d-90s discos do have the confort they lack, we then loose on some issues like smaller tires, more prone to scratches and shit like that.. but for a lot of us those aren't enough to make us change..and we carry them with pride..

again inside is the same a well designed, tought built truck, same suspension etc...

oh and about the prices a D2 is the cheapest 4x4 SUV in the market.

just list all the shit that comes with it stock and compare ... i doubt you would find a better priced 4x4 vehicle like it.

Simon

By bombadier on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 10:34 am: Edit

so i guess the way to go is a suspension lift. I put 3" in my xj and it was pretty straight forward. any issues with the disco that would cause the cost and amount of time needed to increase. good 3" lifts for xjs are about $400 to $500 with the best coming close to $1000. One of my likes with the jeep is the cost and easy of mods. i've heard people say the disco is ok to work on but costly due to a lack of aftermarket companies. any truth? basically if i get a couple year old disco for under $20k is it going to cost me another $10k to get it perform along the lines of a D90? another thing, what should i look for in a used LR. DI or DII, good years bad years? i have a 90 xj and they put a shitty peugot tranny in it. they only did that for 2 or 3 years before they smarted up. any similar problems with certain year discos? thanks for any help.

By bombadier on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 10:40 am: Edit

i am more than happy to sacrafice some comfort for performance, as i said, i would like a project LR. after all, i don't think my 79 cj5 with 4" and tsl tires is the most comfortable ride in the world. is the on road handling of the D90 that bad? i definitly prefer the price of the land rovers and if i do buy it would be that rig. i am just asking what you guys think.

i think i like the land rovers for the reasons i like my xj - good road manners with acceptional off road capability. my rig hanles wonderfully on the road with the 3" lift, how do the rovers hold up with this set up?

By Moe on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 10:40 am: Edit

"another $10k to get it perform along the lines of a D90?" The D90 that cost $35k will have trouble keeping up with you, as the $10k will get you locked and all the protection you need. Of course, the 90 will have some natural advantages, more to do with size than anything else.

The '97 Disco and newer have the best record. The older ones do suffer from poor build quality.

Chalk one up as a soon to be convert?

By Ron on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:07 am: Edit

Personally I like the 94-95 DI as it is pre OBD II. Others will disagree. 96 you need to find out if it has had the valve job. The ZF auto is a great tranny and I can think of only 1 failure (bill ) LT230s (T-case) are pretty tough too, rarely will one break plus you get a 3.3:1 low, it usually takes neglect to kill it. The R380 and LT77 five speeds are rare and not as tough as the auto. LT77 (early 94 5 speeds) should be avoided.

V8 is good. 96 and up do have carbon fouling issues but if you run injector cleaner no biggy.
Little stuff goes wrong but rarely are you stranded. Also everything is easy to work on and there are plenty of places like discoweb where people actually know how to fix these things.

Lifts are pretty cheap considering you have just a dual live axle coil sprung truck. You by springs you are lifted Springs are 240 or 275 a set. check out rovertym.com for full packages John has all sorts of neat stuff at fair prices and the quality is A1. Rockware.net and safarigard.com also have nice stuff, but are not as universally well respected as rovertym

Cheers
Ron

By Ron on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:09 am: Edit

I would like a project LR

If you want a project buy a series rover.

Ron

Then again a J**p project might have a different defination than a rover project

By bombadier on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:23 am: Edit

"If you want a project buy a series rover"
Series what? am i missing something.

project - adj. to describe one's intent and aversion to stock vehicles. n. plan or undertaking.

i want to enhance the positive qualities of a LR just like my jeep. What mods or on your rig, ron?

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:28 am: Edit

Bomb I think you would be happiest with an old abandoned Disco. You know the old trucks need love too... You can get em fairly cheap and all the mods are available. No gohelp out taht nivloc dude. I think he is getting pissed..

Kyle

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:31 am: Edit

let's go outside for a

By Ron on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:36 am: Edit

A series rover is what came before the D90/110

Series I= 1948-1957/8
Series II= 1958-1961
Series IIa= 1962-1970
Series III=1970-74(went to 84 world wide rover stopped importing to the US in 74)

You can check out Alyssa's disco in the gallery.

That is "our" disco.

I have a few other rovers as well. Most notably a Defender 110 hybrid that I am working on now. 35s, salisbury (D60) rear, new HD galvanized coil frame, 1964 dormobile body etc. (a project in rover terms is (to me anyway) to create what did not exist, to create something from nothing, build your own truck, etc.) I also have a POS 1988 RR with a moderate lift and POS 245 75 ATs that I am constantly playing with (new RTE springs are going on this week) and of course my favorite truck, my 1959 SII 88 which is stock basically but restored and is in the process of getting an ARB rear.

Cheers
Ron

By Ron on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:38 am: Edit

Yes,

You would be happy with a beater 94 or 95 disco as well or an older range rover.

Ron

By bombadier on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:42 am: Edit

so it sounds like a 94-95 is what i should be looking to throw my wrench at. Kyle, you still screwing with nivloc. actually i love people like nivloc, too closeminded to have a real conversation, and easy to make look like an idiot. but then again there are morons everywhere. go easy though, a lot of us are bitter now that they have dicontinued the xj for the IFS 3.7 v6 kj. love my solid axles and 4.0 straight six on my xj, great torque and easy to tweek. just imagine if your land rover abandoned its time tested sylying and engineering. hey, aren't you guys getting bmw engines in the future? is that a good thing? maybe they'll put a little more pep in the rovers. although if they throw a bmw engine in there maintenance will be a bitch. let go get that smoke now.

By bobadier on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit

on ebay some guy in florida is selling his 2000 diesel 110 for $60k. wish some diesels would hit the states for jeeps.

By Ron on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 12:05 pm: Edit

2000 diesel 110 for $60k

Its way not legal, I hear the ZJ comes in diesel in europe. You think they (j**p and or LR) would wise up and import diesels. The TD5 is so clean it does not even need a CAT.

Ron

By bombadier on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 12:10 pm: Edit

i think nivloc is trying to say that, much like me, he can't affored a new rover base price at $35k. but if you guy an xj (base $19k sport $24k) you can put a little $$ in to get a 3" lift with 31" tirs for $1k and a sway bar disconect and the xj might out perform the rover. i'm not sure but then again we will never know, until they are both on the trail side by side. (the xj drives beautifully on the road with 3") yes yes i realize the exta money in the rover goes to leather and other comforts which are very nice but us low brow jeepers are into performance (specifically any homemade performance) just my thoughts.

By bombadier on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 12:14 pm: Edit

i hear you ron. i just think it is just a common misconception that diesel is dirty, loud and difficult to find. its a whole marketing thing. diesel in cleaner and gives more torque. but there are more intelligent people than us making the decisions, right? i'll sign up for a diesel jeep any day.

By Gil Stevens (Gil) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 12:27 pm: Edit

"i think nivloc is trying to say that, much like me, he can't affored a new rover base price at $35k. but if you guy an xj (base $19k sport $24k) you can put a little $$ in to get a 3" lift with 31" tirs for $1k and a sway bar disconect and the xj might out perform the rover."

for starters, an XJ with 31s will not outperform even a stock Disco, also who the hell buys brand new trucks to lift and hit the trails with. even 19k for a stripper cherokee is more than Id want to spend for a trail ride. thats what pre-owned vehicles are for. i had an 88 XJ with 31s that I ran up to 220,000 miles, it was a greta truck but it doesnt compare to my Disco.

By Ron on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 12:31 pm: Edit

he can't affored a new rover base price at $35k.

Who buys them new?

Tell him to price out a used one. They are dirt cheap if you know where to look www.lrx.com
and $$$ you would be not too far off the cost of an XJ similarly equipped, and about equal to a ZJ.

Bomb,

I am putting a 300TDi in my hybrid. I am also thinking about converting the RR to a nissen diesel out of an 83 maxima but I don't drive it enough to dedicate the time to making it happen. Tough to support a 4 rover habbit Also get to play with a couple of the club memebers n/a diesels. Those are so the epitome of what an offroad engine should be.

By bombadier on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 12:33 pm: Edit

i guess there are a couple of us crazies out there. why will the disco out preform the lifted xj. i'm not calling you a liar just want some thoughts, as i said i don't know too much about rovers. i don't know if i would pay $35+ just to use the rover for street driving with that engine. needs some more ponies under that hood.

By bombadier on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 12:38 pm: Edit

ron i know a couple guys over in the jeep forum that would love to see how that project ends up. we talk about switching to diesel all the time. good luck

By Ron on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 12:39 pm: Edit

why will the disco out
preform the lifted xj

Better suspension, better gearing, better steering, better COG/balance.

Plus for the cost of some 235 85s and 250 for some 2in springs you have pretty much have what you need to go most places.

Ron

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 01:02 pm: Edit

"why will the disco out preform the lifted xj. "

if that refers to trail performance only,

mainly because lots of people haven't been out there enough to know what each vehicle can really do. and haven't been humbled.
that's why a disco will outperform an XJ. no matter how decked out that XJ is. at least on this board.

i'd never say that my disco can outperform an XJ.
i am not quite sure i can. i ve seen some monster XJs.

By mike w on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 01:46 pm: Edit

xj's out performing what? look at what each vehicles primary design was meant for. xj's are street cars with the ability to give some comfort in poor weather driving condition. yes they are cheap to build (in comparsion to a LR) but what do u get. either a monster off roader with no real good paved road manners or a profiler. bomb dude the Rover is made for adventure where ever that may be for you, a disco or a d90 even a RR will take you there and with a lil common sense bring you back. if you want to know why buy one and this time next year tell us which vehicle you drive the most...

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 01:47 pm: Edit

I bought an XJ in '91 as an alternative to a sedan. It was a good little rig, and got me into 4-wheelin'. I was wanting another 4x4, and started thinking about a CJ. Then I saw a Defender, and was wanting a Rover bad... then saw the price, and went WHOA! Ended up getting a FSJ Wagoneer instead... it was MUCH better than the XJ, more comfortable and more capable off-road. Then, I finally got a Series Rover... This ol' beater eats them both off-road hands-down, and it's a derelict jalopy!! SO I got rid of the XJ. Then, I came across my Disco... it's now my driver, and there goes the other Jeep out of Kyle's Window. The ol' Rover's now a rolling resto (but not really a 'restoration', just SLOWLY improving).

At work, we've got a motor pool full of XJs that I wheel daily on mine sites, and they're respectable. I'm not anti-XJ, definitely not anti-FSJ.... I'm just REALLY pro-Rover.

Any stock Rover will easily take any stock Jeep (given equal drivers!). A modified Jeep might keep up with a stock Rover. A heavily modified Jeep may beat a stock Rover; but a slightly modified Rover will then keep up w/ about anything that's been built.

XJ-Jeeps end up getting modified to put on bigger tires that match a Disco's stock sizes. When we do a mild modification to by doing a spring swap and put on bigger tires, we're putting on tires that are in the height range of what Jeeps use when they're HEAVILY modified.

Jeeps are better than any of the other SUVs out there (Toyotas aren't the worst, either). But I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Rover fan from now on.

IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada....


-L

By JH on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 04:02 pm: Edit

What makes a Any Rover better offroad?
They have better gearing. The engines are built good, and give you the power you need. They were not meant to be speed demons, but give a good balance of torque and horsepower. They have excellent articulation, even when stock. They have a good auto trans that is nearly bulletproof. The engines are also pretty much bulletproof. They are balanced very good (uphill, downhill, and sideways). The LT230 trans. box is good and gives little if any problems. Actually, if you don't abuse it, the entire drivetrain is damn near indestructible. The four wheel drive system with its center diff lock and the axle articulation alone will take you just about anywhere. Throw in a locker and some mud tires and you are set to go. Do some minor upgrades to the susp. along with the other stuff I just mentioned and a rover will literally take you just about anywhere.
As for cost. You can pick up an older Range rover in good condition for around $5k. You can even now get a good used disco for around $8k. Throw in another couple of grand into either of them and they will take you anywhere (and bring you back!!) I grew up driving jeeps and they were breaking ALL the time. Since I got into Rovers, I now spend my money on upgrades instead of transmissions and other driveline parts. Rovers are just built to handle offroading, jeeps are (I hate to say it) not built worth a crap. Any true jeep owner that grew up driving them will tell you that jeep parts are not good, and you are replacing that broken part with a part that is sure to go bad as well.
One of my current trucks is a 1971 Series Rover. I wheel it very hard. and guess what, it rarely, and I mean rarely, breaks anything. And if it does, I know I am replacing that part with a part that was built to last a very long time. Most of my 1971 is original, and has yet to cause any problems. And even my newer rovers rarely have any problems. They are just built to go! And that they do very well!

By bombadier on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 03:12 am: Edit

I hear all the points and they sound pretty valid. i definitely love the older trucks. the older rovers and cruisers are just plain perfect, although most of those are already snatched up or have higher prices. thanks for the input fellas. i am not quite sure if i want to go for a 94-95 disco or keep searching for an older model in need of tlc. maybe next time around i'll get a new disco as a family ride, take care of it, and as it ages just keep it and eventually trick it out. that way, after my wife is done with it, i can get my hands on it. plus i can take care of it until she lets me actual use it for its intended purpose. i'll let you guys know what i come across. if i do end up finding a rover, i'll be back for tech advice. take it easy guys. back to my current rig, i think she got jeleous. i'll have to take my xj out on the trial tonight.

By lynden on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 05:40 am: Edit

Bomb,
You could do what I did buy a disco for the wife, lift it and put bigger tires along w/ rock sliders (in the future) and have her drive it daily (good excuse is, "but honey, you pick up the kids so you need the room." Then you can drive whatever you want to work and still have a kick ass disco. for the weekends!
Lynden
PS- She LIKES the mods though so there isn't much arm twisting!

By bombadier on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 08:29 am: Edit

for the hell of it, i just looked at a couple dealerships around here. found a 96 disco with 44k miles and 5spd for $17,900. i sure love a manual transmition, too bad it isn't that reliable (according to the info you guys gave me)

By discoman on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 02:40 pm: Edit

what other truck can offroad like crazy and then be parked by the valet at the finest hotels not a j**p thats for sure.

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 03:35 pm: Edit

Naaa.. They'll still park it all the same. They don't care what you drive. They'd park a yugo if you pulled up in it and tipped them.

Grand Cher's are nice. I actually was looking at them before I bought the Disco. I just didn't like it. Not to mention that it cost more then the Disco did and I heard that the V8 and the drive line didn't like each other. The normal Cher's are OK but, it was too small and I felt cramped inside. I like the Wrangler but, it is just way too small so going on a trip with some friends would be out of the question as there wouldn't be any place for the gear. I'm not even going to say that they are crap as I know that they do off road pretty well. However, that new Liberty.. IFS on a Jeep.. WTF are they thinking. That thing is a POS. LR goes to IFS I'll be very sad..

By MA on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 03:53 pm: Edit

When I drove to Dallas,TX a couple of weeks ago, they parked my Disco(beat-up '94) next to the Porsche's and Jag's at the Double Tree!

By JH on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 04:43 pm: Edit

Bomb, I don't know who said the 5spds in the discos are not any good, because they are. Atleast in my experiences with them. There are 4 5spd discos in our club and none to my knowledge have ever had any problems whatsoever. I am actually looking at a 5spd to hopefully purchase. I have heard nothing but good things from the disco 5 spds. However, do some more looking before you purchase, you can get a '96 disco for around $10k if you spend some time looking. YOu can pick up a '94-'95 disco for under $10k. And the older classic Range rovers can be had for as little as $2500 , you just need to look around. Good luck.

By volts911 on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Bomb,
Now that is what i like to see, all of us getting along and not trashing eachothers RIGS.
If you think about it, thats cool to wheel with all kinds of rigs and help eachother when stuck.

My 2 cents

By bombadier on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 06:06 am: Edit

i agree volts911. i love jeeps and that will never change but there is no reason why i can't appreciated other rigs. i don't give a shit what you drive, although solid axles are a plus, we're all in the sport for the same reason. my ideal set up would be to keep my jeeps, get a rover and an old land cruiser. although that is a long way off.

By Jarrod on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 12:23 pm: Edit

I know I am doing MY part for peace, love and harmony among both Rover lovers and jeep lovers - I have a 95 Disco and my fiance has a 98 Wrangler and I truly love both of these vehicles. I couldn't be luckier!

By Garyk (Garyk) on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 04:57 pm: Edit

Bomb,

I had an awesome CJ-5. It was a 74 I bought off my brother in 77. Put some kewl equipment on it as well as Monster Mudder tires and during the winter of 1978 here in the Midwest after the authorities warned people the roads were becoming impassable especially through the mountains in Tennessee, We loaded up the jeep and headed for Florida. That jeep went through everything including a blizzard, great vehicle. I have a great photo of my wife holding our 5-month-old son, standing near the ocean next to our jeep in January 1978...

Gary

By Garyk (Garyk) on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Photo is of my wife holding our 5-month-old son, standing near the ocean next to our jeep in while in Florida, January 1978... This photo was before I added the Monster Mudders and a winch. Miss this Jeep!

Gary

By Garyk (Garyk) on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 11:32 am: Edit

I did my part for peace, I put my best Jeep photo on here. Is this thing on, hello?

Gary

By Fez on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 12:41 pm: Edit

She looks like the chick from the "That 70's show"

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 01:33 pm: Edit

that's probably because it was the 70's.

nice tires.

the only thing I had in 1978 was a huffy.

By Garyk (Garyk) on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 02:57 pm: Edit

Yes, it was the 70's. Just got off the phone with the kid in the photo. He's 24 now. Makes me feel old. New Disco makes me feel young...

Gary

By gil on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 05:14 am: Edit

the only thing i had in 78 was a pacifier...and a dirty diaper....

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 05:24 am: Edit

'78.... let's see... Evel Knievel bike, daydreaming of either flying the Millennium Falcon or jumping a black Trans Am over the house... Lots of coke bottles refused for deposit 'cause of the bottle-rocket smoke rings around the ends....


-L

By Matt Milbrandt (95discovery) on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit

"Garyk"

You need to let your second son take the Disco out next time he comes home from school. Evan and I will make sure he brings her home safe and dirty.

Matt

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 12:14 pm: Edit

all i ever dreamed about was haulin ass (Daisy Duke's ass) in an orange '69 Dodge Charger...

ok, that wasn't until '79....

By Garyk (Garyk) on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 12:15 pm: Edit

Hey Matt,

How are you? You should come over and check it out. It's dirty right now, from the rain!

When are you going to let me see your uncle's garage? See you...

Gary

By Matt Milbrandt (95discovery) on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 01:14 pm: Edit

You can see the garage whenever you want, call my cell 708-1468, or you can just stop by. I'm there everyday from 8 to 12.

Matt

By gp (Garrett) on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 07:23 am: Edit

this was me in 1978:

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 04:44 am: Edit

why do i suddenly feel so OLD!

By bombadier on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 05:03 am: Edit

i've been caught up on the lr/jeep discussion over on the jeep board, 350 posts. anyway i have also been emailing with a range rover guy. so, do lr guys get along with range rover guys? i've heard some compelling arguments for an older range rover. do any of you guys know about the air susp. they have, and when kind of problems there are. i have some info on the EAS but i am looking for more real world problems/potentional costs and problems with upgrading or swaping out the system. any thoughts.

By Ron on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 05:08 am: Edit

Swapping to coils is easy as pie and costs about 100 in parts plus the cost of springs. As soon as you see EAS on a 93-95 classic swap it out asap.

Ron

range rover is a land rover and we generally get along fine. The only real "battle" is the short bus (D90) guys v. the leather seat crowd (disco RR guys)

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 09:32 am: Edit

I test drove a 95 Range Rover LWB with EAS over at my Rover dealer. The salesman wanted to impress me with the "up & down" air bag antics, and it didn't even work. "Hmmmm....must be a fuse," he said. "Goodbye," I said.